I tried suggesting "Michael Bay-Run", but was heavily beaten for it.

Although there was a lot of rules for Explosions.

Had to have Critias as part of brainstorming for the magic chapter as Way of the Friggin Adept was taken into concideration with this new edition.

I didn't mean to imply that you wrote the chapter Critias, just expressing satisfaction that you had a hand in it. You book was what actually got me to start playing Sharowrun again. Most of what I had seen for adepts was either Faces, or Cyber hybrid combat Adepts. It felt harder to make something different.

Way of the Athlete mad my free running courier much less crappy. Also, you are one of a handful of people I have encountered that felt that adepts were timed. Most people, IME, feel that they are exceptionally broken.

No sir. Murder By Death. Though I can see that name appearing somewhere in his works.

So how is the rigger looking now?


Do he get a VCR rig now?


Does it add to this initiative when he is not jacked in?



What is the essence and nuyen cost for a rating 2 rig?



Thanks!

Let me check...

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He looks to be still drunk from UCAS-Day.

VCRs add their rating as a pool bonus on all Vehicle skill tests when you're jumped in, and is added to the Handling and Speed of the vehicle, and lowers the thresholds of vehicle tests by your rating (min 1) when you're jumped in.

VCR 1, essence 1, 43k
VCR 2, essence 2, 97k
VCR 3, essence 3, 208k (avail too high for chargen)

Do Wired also follow the 1, 2, 3 essence cost?

Does VCR boost the riggers reaction when not jacked in?

Nope. 2, 3, 5, base.


Nope. I posted everything they do from their gear write-up.

Do VCRs affect Matrix initiative in some way or does the Rigger run on his default (meatbod +1d6 or Matrix +3d6) initiative?

Ahhh,I must have misread the Wired Essence costs in a differant post. That means over on the cyber thread some of my logic is off *shrugs*

I believe you HAVE o have a VCR to rig now, as a note. I'd have to double check that though,

If they're meat-driving, they use meat-speed. If they're jacked in, they use Matrix speed.

Bull

I can confirm that: Barring a huge typo I haven't seen yet, you need a control rig (the "V" was dropped in SR4 because they're used for drones as much if not more than vehicles) to jump into something (which needs a rigger interface).

Thanks, was away from my book.

Thanks

Nice to see you can get a VCR 1 for 1 essence.

Is there a means for technomancers to circumvent this, or are they now barred from rigging?

In one of the spoiler threads on the SR4 forums, someone mentioned an echo that allowed TMs to emulate the control rig. So yes TMs can rig, but not out of the box. I like this idea. It does kill dronomancers at character creation (barring potential house rules), but I think it fits with the occasional theme in SR that cyberware is the shortcut. It also gives cybered riggers a place they can shine without being completely displaced by the TM.

-Temperance

Ah, thanks. So boosts to Matrix speed affect rigging speed, and a commlink is still important for riggers.


Oh goodie, they really tried to make riggers viable again. That's the best thing I have seen about SR5 so far.

That and the neo-garage rock hit 'Let's Get This Rigging Started' performed by Pink's great-granddaughter Cerise.

The bloodlines run true.

Or rather, they kneecapped everybody else. With a .44 magnum.

The whole world suddenly forgetting how to build sim modules which allow jumping in without a VCR is rather heavy-handed...

I'd say the bigger problem was that using a 900 nuyen R6 Command program with 3 points of Optimization running on a System 3, Response 3 commlink optimized for Command to Remote Control a vehicle or drone was better (and a lot cheaper) than using a Response 5 commlink for most tasks. Remote Control mode also negated the random backlash damage from drones getting damaged and allowed you to use a cheap and readily available program in place of an expensive and hard to get Response rating.

Which change in SR5 is handled delicately? Also, the transistion from Rigger to hacker with some drones in sR4 was just as heavy handed and kneecapped riggers with RPGs. While the style is debatable, at least that makes a previously unviable mundane archetype more viable as opposed to their 'awakened' counterpart. So far, it was all fuck the mundane for the glory of the Awakened. I for one see this as a positive.

This is assuming in universe it progressed from VCR to SIM modules obsoleting VCR back to VCR. But the whole world didn't forget and that progression never happened in universe. Welcome to (another) SR5 retcon: A sim module never could obsolete a VCR. From 2050 to 2075, you either needed/had a VCR or were a submerged TM.

I'm also not quite understanding how requiring a VCR to rig is kneecapping everyone else. It's one piece of gear. Okay, yes TMs have to pay karma for the privilege. But I don't see how TMs are now "everyone else". Or is this more dismissive hyperbole?

-Temperance

Retconning the VCR rig to improve the rigger situation is a good call.
There is a clear benefit to better defining riggers and technomancers still have an way to rig.

I might have left the base control rig at .5 essence just to keep it closer to 4th.

Easy fluff to explain the change.

The last generation of higher rating control rigs were under performing (calibration issues), had serious security issues, and some long term health issues.
A lot of the neural connections hardware that they thought they didn't need any more turned out to be necessary for extended operations.
The military was not happy.

The new generation of control rigs requires additional hardware and more extensive surgery (but still much less than the generation before last) but it is way out performing the previous generation. It also doesn't have the long term calibration issues that the last generation has been suffering at higher ratings. And so far they are also causing much less wear and tear on the riggers nervous system.

So how are Building Security Spyders being handled in 5th?.
Are they riggers or deckers?
Or deckers with control rigs (which makes sense for a security decker who would also need to control drones)?

I have to admit that it was that weird rigger to building security rigger combat system in 3rd was the straw that broke the camel's back for me.

It also seems strange in 3rd that a decker can't interfere with a building security rigger system.
I mean what about emulation software? Sure the decker would be slower than the rigger (hardware being faster than a software emulation program), but the decker should still be able to get basic information from the system.

So how does one boot a spyder out of the building security system and take it over?

Thanks

Is it decker versus decker combat or some thing else?

And how do riggers deal with decker/demiGOD attacks on their network, drones and self? Do they have the same option the sam has or can they defend with a little more chance of success? After all, going local, net wise, is not viable for them since it screws with their network too.

I'm not saying the previous state of riggers was good, quite the contrary. But now everybody who occasionally wants to jump into a drone, without crazy dicepools or anything, got the short end -- while dronomancers don't even get that.

And of course it's a massive retconn of technological capabilities, now you HAVE to get a massive implant for something which was previously possible with trodes.

Maybe house rule the Control Rig 1 to .5 essence?

I really see highly secure buildings using anti Wifi paint and being able to drop all wireless connections at will.
And having a lot of direct fiber optic connections to critical areas.

Plus several dedicated fiber optic lines that route straight to HQ.

If a serious alert goes off, the Spyder kills all out side connectins except for the dedicated fiber optics to HQ and some internal wireless connections.

The Corp Security deckers and any GOD support that is called in will route through the fiber optic hard line.

Anyone else trying to remote in will get dumped.

Activate Jamming to further cause the runner's decker more problems.

Did the Directional Jammer make a return in SR5?

unknown but Dodgy Jammers will be in the revised London sourcebook

A TM could still spend 1 essence (which decrease his resonance by one also) to buy a control rig level 1.

And I'm sure we'll see an Echo that mimics the function of a Control Rig at some point.

There's one in the core book, in fact.

And likely just a CF, as it was in SR4A?

Nah, IMO for what it does the cost is fair (keeping in mind costs for other archetype essentials).
However, basic rigging should be possible without a VCR, and TMs who don't (just) hack are really screwed. No PANs, no rigging until Submersion, they can't even use Resonance abilities with an RCD. http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php&...09061#msg209061

@TJ: Nope, Echo

There's been confirmation that it's an echo, not a CF. Which bothers me. The only time you see something needing to make a beeline for something post-chargen like that in SR4 is possession mages for Channeling, and even they get the basic functions for the concept without it. This also means that the rigging technomancer doesn't get to stand as something distinct and separate from the hacking technomancer, because if he can't rig until he submerges then all 14 of those Complex Forms are almost certainly for hacking.

On the other hand, they could have come up with a number of rigging complex forms that would have allowed rigging technomancers to function, while not duplicating the other benefits of the VCR without first getting the echo...

Hmmmmm. Definitely don't like that at all. Just adds another thing to the growing list, I guess...

Yeah - I can understand wanting mundane riggers to be able to stand on their own rather than being completely outclassed, but when you remove the dice inflation of threading Command to 12 I don't see how there's possibly a need to nutpunch technoriggers like this.

I'm still not a fan of Technomancers, because it seems like they don't really have a unique role. Letting them be decker + rigger par excellence would probably be a little much, so tossing in some barriers to entry aren't a bad idea.

I really think Technomancers should be able to play outside of the box a little more -- actually manifest some Matrix magic in the physical. Imagine if they could summon a data cloud that could jam a PAN or make a drone go haywire. Or other cool stuff. Then I think they'd have a better-defined place.

For me the question is since they separated decking and rigging more how much would a decker have to dilute his decking to also be a rigger and is that more comparable to a complex form or an echo.

It's not so much about diluting the decking as it is having two really expensive things going on. The VCR apparently takes up a sizable chunk of Essence (and money), the cyberdeck and programs take up a huge chunk of money, Drones take up a bunch of money, and vehicles take up a bunch of money.

Just by rough estimates of what I've seen posted regarding costs and whatnot, a starting Decker couldn't possibly also be a starting Rigger if he wanted to have a decent cyberdeck, any programs, and any drones and vehicles worth noting.

If Technomancers were let out of the gate with a VCR-equivalent, they'd be the ultimate in decker-rigger archetypes, which hardly seems fair to deckers or riggers.

Never suggested a FREE VCR, Epicedion - simply that requiring an echo is too much of a barrier to entry. If you needed different Complex Forms, skills, and attributes for technohacking versus technorigging, it would also not be possible to be both a starting technorigger AND technohacker without taking hits to the effectiveness of both.

So your argument doesn't really work.

The word "free" didn't appear in my post.

Technomancers can't help but be decker-equivalents. I suppose they could take nothing in decking skills, but their cyberdeck is built into their attributes so that would just be weird and silly.

I suppose it's a consequence of no longer using the same type of hardware to hack as to rig. Still, it is horribly frustrating - especially since it's enough to completely screw up some concepts without houserules, but not actually enough to deal with your problems - you get the drones and vehicles anyways, and just have Machine Sprites run them until you can submerge.

And on that note... Are the rules for Machine Sprites any clearer now?

Well I think drone-rigger Technomancers were mostly a mistake in the first place and only showed up because they made the hacker/rigger dividing line virtually nonexistent in SR4, leaving no real barrier to Technomancers.

Though technically everyone in SR4 should've been a drone rigger on the side. It wasn't all that expensive if all you wanted was a little gun drone.

I'm quite curious as to why you think that. Care to elaborate?

And where exactly did you get the notion that anybody wanted TMs to be able to do both at the same time?

Of course there is, because Technomancers need more ability to wholesale replace all technical classes.