Instead of talking about missing Skinlinks and matrix bonuses.

Cause we got 11 days to go!

Thanks!

Umm.... There are actual mechanical differences between Magicians and Shaman again!

That's nifty!

I'm hoping (in fact I know) there's more than that. New Matrix rules for example, especially coming from SR3 these are something I'm curious about Mentor Spirits are also intriguing and sound like they've been done cool and I imagine there's a whole slew of Cyber and Biotech I'm not aware of as each edition seems to have introduced something else.

Have you and I been playing the same game or is my sarcasm detector broken? Ware has been extremely static edition to edition traditionally.

2-3 introduced new stuff (some if it wasn't accessible easily) but Man&Machine certainly has more toys than Shadowtech did (although I do have a soft spot for Shadowtech, got my first real upgrades in my first shadowrun campaign from that book) although not sure what the StreetSamueai Catalogue had in it, so maybe there was stuff I missed.

I could be wrong but I'm sure there was new stuff between 3-4 (or maybe things brought into greater prominence than before). Granted perhaps not a slew but even so, the odd new thingy. I havent bought anything SR in 8 years(ish) and haven't spent on a new edition or system for over a year, so I'm a little keen.

SSC was mostly new guns, and some headware that was making its' first appearance.

But it is the home of the Predator II, the Colt Manhunter, the Panther Assault Cannon, and the Ingram Smartgun all of which I still love 20 years later.

Sadly, it was also the start of the scourge that is Form Fitting Body Armor, however it specifically says that it does not stack with any other armor in the book, so I can't hold that against it.

Also, the MP Laser, which was the start of the absolute best bit of Shadowlander commentary ever done in the books. The Neon Samurai's war with Ares over the MP Laser systems always drew me in. Seemed like he'd be a really neat Johnson with an axe to grind.

Edit: Oo, and the Narcoject stuff, the one item I have consistently ported over to every edition of SR I've ever GM'd, because it is something that is absurdly sensible to have in existence.

Except for the fact he died in (I think) Fields of Fire or Cybertechnology.

Nah, pretty sure he's still alive after that. He comments in Corporate Download and Target : Matrix, which are both later books.

I am definitily sure he died in some book, but it's been a while.

Edit: Looked it up, and I guess I was wrong; he should still be around.

Some say he changed his handle to the LED Samurai, but this is unconfirmed.

AR Samurai, because the world now is all wireless and shit.

He died during the Burger Franchise War of '67. He went down defending the Clawn. It was sad.

Namely?

Still not as bad as the Cola Wars of the early-70s.

The second Cola War. Some scars will never heal.

From the previews, they soak drain differently. Will + Logic for magicians, Will + Charisma for shaman.

Beyond that, I'll need the book to really tell, but I'm seriously down to grasping at straws here to find the good.

... Which is the exact way that worked in SR4?

I will double check but the magic traditions are seperated exactly as they were in fourth.

And honestly that's not a bad thing, as much as it is nice to have some seperation of traditions thematicly having multiple systems is dumb. On the other hand "choose your drain stat" is also kind of dumb.

Having some good differences between traditions can be nice and make for good roleplaying.

But I don't think I would go back to Shamans being the only one to summon a Spirit and Hermetics being the only one to bind them.

Shamans summoned Nature Spirits, and Mages summoned elementals in 1st through 3rd editions. Both made exactly the same conjuring test and it was the spirits themselves that had the different mechanics.

That distinction was made up by 4th edition to try and revert the setting. It was a creative enough re-imagining of the system, but didn't really go far enough to bring back the feeling of having two (or more) different paradigm-types of Magic. I hope fifth will take it further.

The big(ger) shaman/magician divide was an idea we wanted to have fun with, but in the end it got shuffled off to a splatbook. SR5 is friggin' huge, and we decided to keep the basics, well, basic. So the core doesn't have a bigger difference than SR4 did, but the plan is to have more stuff to differentiate between them in a later book.

And yes, Mentor Spirits got a bit of a change. Since -- unlike most of what's been discussed so far -- I did play a larger role in that (in that the guy busy writing all the rest of the magic chapter was kind enough to let my adept-lovin' self brainstorm and stuff extensively, and then he liked some of my ideas ad we hammered stuff out), though, I won't share it, personally. Someone who can be a bit more objective will have to.

I think I am going with a Mentor Spirit that appears to me as Michael Weston.

Not Morgan Freeman?

That was my second choice with Sean Connery tieing with him.

How about Patrick Stewart?

Don't get me wrong...I like Patrick Stewart, but never seen him as a Mentor persona. Skilled yes, but not in the same way a guide should be.

Not Alec Guinness?

Could, but don't want to have to fend off attacks by Horizon who bought up Lucasfilms assets ages ago and I am sure would try and sue me somehow.

Obviously you need to watch more American Dad.

True Critias
But I was thinking more his RL charity work presentations that there are a couple of VERY moving videos of out there. Mostly to do with domestic abuse. Really quite heart gripping.

Plus he does a great Xavier.

Another good option would be Samuel L. Jackson.

I'm glad to hear that.

I'm really looking forward to seeing the new Mentor Spirits for Adepts.

I have a player who is a Dog Physical Adept.
Would someone with the book mind telling me what benefits does Dog provide for Physical Adepts?


I run a 2055 campaign and have been playing with how to play up the differences in conjuration between the two traditions without totally reworking the system.

For example I've ran it that a Shaman has to ally himself with the local nature spirits in order to be able to trade future favors from them (Bind then).
It takes a day per point of force the first time a Shaman comes to an arrangement with a Nature Spirit but the advantage is that because the Shaman has an ongoing relationship with the Spirit, if a binding or summoning fails, the Spirit will just leave rather than attack the Shaman (except for a critical glitch). The Shaman can always spend more time with the Spirit to strengthen the arrangement and increase the force he can safely call up the Spirit.
If a Shaman hasn't had time to come to arrangements with the local spirits or wants to call the spirit at a higher force without spending the time then he runs the same risk of being attacked on a failed binding or summoning as a hermetic.

Finally nature spirits are tied to their home environments an so are stronger there. If the Shaman summons a friendly nature spirit from the nature spirit's home domain (he has an arrangement with the spirit to trade favors) then the Spirit will be treated as its force is one higher while it is in it's home domain.
But because nature spirits are so strongly tied to their home environments, ANY nature spirit summoned by a Shaman that is outside its home domain will have it forced lowered by one until it returns to it's home domain.
So a force 5 Snohomish river spirit (Spirit of Water) summoned while standing in the waters of the Snohomish River would be plus one force (force 6) if in the river or on it's banks, but force 4 if it entered a house over looking the river (and was now in a hearth spirits domain (Spirit of Man). The spirit is treated as force 5 for summoning test and drain rolls.


Never got it perfected so I'll be looking forward to seeing what they come up with.

Dog
Dog is a loyal friend. He fights ferociously to defend his home and those under his protection. Dog protects people from harmful magic and dangerous spirits. Dog is loyal, generous, and helpful to those who show him kindness. He is single-minded, often to the point of stubbornness.
Advantages
All: +2 dice for Tracking tests
Magician: +2 dice for Detection spells, preparations, and rituals.
Adept: 2 free Improved Sense powers.
Disadvantages
A Dog magician is stubbornly loyal. You can never leave someone behind, betray your comrades, or let another sacrifice themselves in your place without making a successful Charisma + Willpower (3) Test.
Similar Archetypes: Friendship, Loyalty

Thanks!


Nice! I'll miss the plus 2 to summon\Bind Spirits of Man, but I like it.

Definitely some thing to look forward to.

The plus 2 free improved Sense Powers are a nice touch for Dog.

If someone wouldn't mind, what is the Adept bonus for Wolf like?

They were also originally going to include Mild Allergy to Exotic Weapon: Rolled Up Newsprint, but they dropped it at the last minute.

...or the JOKER.

Do Mystic Adepts get the Magician benefit or the Adept benefit from their Mentor? Or both? I definitely like the change to the template, by the way.

This time only the all & adept bonus, not description, magician, disadvantage or similar mentors:

All: +2 dice to Tracking tests
Adept: 2 free levels of Attribute Boost (Agility).

MA's gotta choose one or the other.

*thumbs up*

I didn't write the fluff for 'em or cook up every option, but I'm glad folks are digging the multi-bonus stuff.

I figured it would be a will power test to resist fetching a thrown stick.

YEAH!

I've gone from a Moving Target to a Running Target!!!

And I have Shadowrun 5 to thank for it:)

I liked the approach SR2050 took: Shamans summon, mages bind (the spirit appearing is part of the Binding test), easy peasy. Sadly not an option for 5th unless the UMT was re-retconned, but for example making Shamans better summoners and worse at Binding would have been (UMT or not, they are still uncomfortable with it, belief makes reality...) possible.

Only if he appeared as Jamesir Bensonmum.

Sir PTerry?

Now that someone said something concrete about what has happened to adapts, I can stop asking. Especially now that I know Crotias had a hand in it. My favorite freelancer, if only because he feels similarly to the way I do about adepts. By the way, Critiaz, did any of the costs for Adept powers get reevaluated?

Adept power prices (and adept advancement in general) were certainly looked at, yes, and I think folks will find their advancement scheme satisfactory.

I didn't write the magic chapter, but I did what I could to brainstorm with the guy who did, shared my thoughts, made my arguments, yadda yadda yadda. Like a whole lot else there were still a few things that I might've done differently if I were writing CritiasRun solo, start to finish...but within the design principles we were all working under, and the confines of how big/how many changes were wanting to make, I think folks will find them plenty playable and fun.

I dunno, I can't say I'd be all that disappointed with CritiasRun.

As someone who came to magicians in Shadowrun from the Classic World of Darkness Mage, I'm all for seeing some variety in how traditions play out. I also greatly appreciate the changes to the way power points are being handled for adepts. There were a couple other things I was pleased to see, but a) I can't find them atm and b) I'm working from an old version of the magic chapter so I'm not sure how much else I can say.

In a "typical" game, following the suggested karma payouts and cash rewards, what was the Karma range that the Design team targeted to allow Adepts begin to gain parity with their front-loaded Samurai counterparts, and when are they expected to surpass them?



That's a pretty flexible Magic system.

-Wired_SR_AEGIS

"How does magic work?" "How do you BELIEVE it works?"

And that was before you even got into Paradox backlashes.

Just the fact that you guys intend to do it is totally awesome news.

Right.

...and it made the prospect of hiding in plain sight a highly successful defensive tactic: "You want to chase me out here, and watch all your gross manipulations of the natural world unravel from disbelief? By all means, be my guest."

-Wired_SR_AEGIS