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Tzeentch
DATA SITE: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8m3vhgcrk9rmebs/q5RxqpYtFC

NORTH AMERICA MAP AS OF 2075 (includes Storm Front Events)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4g5p89xr5uyixfr/NorthAmerica.pdf

CURRENT ISSUES

South Florida Borders
-- These are not consistent between written description and maps (which just show a line across the state).
See http://www.michael.burrage.net/pages/games...ps/sr-maps.html and the SWA/SONA derived borders at https://www.dropbox.com/s/32384i3uj6see1p/FloridaBorders.pdf

Boise
-- Boise is in the wrong location on the SONA map, as shown here https://www.dropbox.com/s/4bj5amiv6lu9nu4/Boise_Wrong.PNG
-- Boise is in roughly the right spot on the Tir Tairngire map, but the other parts of the eastern border with the Ute (now PCC), SSC, and TT are not consistent with other published maps.

Bogota
-- There are borders changes described, but not shown in Storm Front. The Pre-Storm Front borders based on SWA are shown here https://www.dropbox.com/s/reeor266e6x499b/B...lAdminAreas.pdf


PCC Land Purchase
-- Based on information provided by Wak Shaani you can see the border changes and land swap details at https://www.dropbox.com/sh/kr36a0211g4szzo/Zef2p4w1fB

San Diego
-- Based on the Corporate Enclaves map, San Diego is now a series of islands. See https://www.dropbox.com/s/gjukvh7dwwv3dc3/s...ego_flooded.pdf

California
-- The regional CFS map and the Los Angeles map do match match up. You can see what got sunk in LA here https://www.dropbox.com/s/z4k2c6et60ut6zo/LA_Flooded.pdf
-- For what happened to Camp Pendleton and Oceanslime see https://www.dropbox.com/s/nsf1wqf0qzwjh1n/p...ton_flooded.pdf
-- Note that flooded areas shown in the Corporate Enclave map cross mountain ranges and even have shoreline where there isn't any.

Europe
-- You can see the georectified German Anniversary edition map here https://www.dropbox.com/s/gp9vlrr4ka06u00/EuropeMap.pdf
-- Note that the Denmark shore does not match what is shown in other sources (including other German books).
-- The Westphalia area has been updated to match the Reiseführer (Travel Guide) sourcebook and you can see that here https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4tp5xmt5odabdsi/K6nynvBMWl

Gold and Ivory Coast
-- Uploaded my attempted fixes to https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5lwgnx0leohn71j/q4W8E4R7uN
-- The maps should be consistent with Feral Cities, p. 69 with a few fixes ("Asante" and not "Assante," for example).
-- I don't think I can georectify the Lagos map (Feral Cities, p. 93). It's too divergent from the current area to find tie points. I've attached a map showing one of my attempts as LagosNowWhat smile.gif
lokii
Maybe, you can use this world map. I already did the registration of the Sixth World Almanac map two years back or so.

http://shadowhelix.pegasus.de/images/6/6d/...Differences.png

You want brown lines plus red lines for the Almanac borders.
tete
As much as I hate to say it... I hear the Bing API for maps is pretty fair to good and they are way better on the traffic maps for Seattle than Google... I guess it helps when its your backyard.

[edit] linkage
http://www.microsoft.com/maps/developers/web.aspx
Tzeentch
Who controls St. Louis? It looks like the border goes right into the center of the city.

The CAS/UCAS border looks like it follows the Missouri River in the East, and the west side follows I-44 down to St. James. It looks like it should split south of Rolla and across Mark Twain National Forest following no real features, and then roughly following I-44 again north of Fort Leonard Wood. Springfield appears to be on the CAS side of the I-44 border and then the border just sort of shoots out without following anything.
Sendaz
QUOTE (Tzeentch @ Jul 2 2013, 08:25 PM) *
Who controls St. Louis? It looks like the border goes right into the center of the city.

The CAS/UCAS border looks like it follows the Missouri River in the East, and the west side follows I-44 down to St. James. It looks like it should split south of Rolla and across Mark Twain National Forest following no real features, and then roughly following I-44 again north of Fort Leonard Wood. Springfield appears to be on the CAS side of the I-44 border and then the border just sort of shoots out without following anything.

It does, its split between the UCAS and CAS, which leads to all sorts of interesting infighting among the groups wanting to reunite the town and is still a major stop point for smugglers going to and from New Orleans.
Tzeentch
The North American countries have been created, including Aztlan and the Yucatan. Bare bones right now, but let me know what you think. I cleaned up the CAS/UCAS borders and think I cleared up some issues on the Sioux/UCAS borders where it was obvious the map was following a river or road.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8m3vhgcrk9rmebs/q5RxqpYtFC
lokii
QUOTE (Tzeentch @ Jul 3 2013, 04:02 AM) *
The actual shapefile (extension .shp) is missing?
Tzeentch
huh. I dropped the entire folder in there. Will fix it tomorrow. Really happy with how it came out and how easy it was to create. The borders should be topologically correct, but it's not in a geodatabase so I can't actually enforce that. Even I'm not that interested in doing any serious spatial analysis of the Shadowrun numbers pulled out of a hat nyahnyah.gif
Tzeentch
Shapefile fixed. Will work on the South American countries today.
Tzeentch
I've updated the shapefile to contain all the nations of the Americas, including the Caribbean League and all South American countries.

As I thought it might be useful, I created a quick map of the Bogota area that shows the nearby inhabited areas (including their urban sprawl and current estimated 2050 populations) and the current administrative sub-units (provinces, counties, etc.). You can find the map as a PDF in the same dropbox folder.

I need to clean up some islands ownership and then I'll start on Africa.

If anyone wants a map of anything for areas already finished let me know exactly what you want. I'm not a cartographer per se and don't have limitless free time to create custom maps, but I know my way around ArcGIS pretty damn well smile.gif

If you want a map created and need the MXD let me know, I don't mind sharing.

When I get some time I'll also start adding data from the 6WA and previous books for things like languages, pop figures, and so on. Might be interesting to help visualize this stuff.

Update: Fixed some topology errors of uncertain origin with the borders of the Sioux and the CAS/Aztlan (you had to zoom in really far to see them, generally). I also uploaded a PDF map of the Denver region.
Tzeentch
Finished digitizing all of Africa, Israel, Syria, Palestine, and the Arabian Caliphate.

I did a bit of surgery around Asamado because it was a bit of a cluster in that area and the borders cut up major cities and stuff (which I doubt was the intent). On the AfricaChanges map you can see that Asamando expanded a bit, as did Sekondi, at the expense of the Gold and Ivory Coast Tribal Lands. The orange areas are existing major urban areas.
Tzeentch
All of Europe has been digitized and files updated. I'll be uploading a few maps soon. Note that there are some border issues around Luxembourgh because the SOE and SWA maps are really hard to square with existing borders and city locations (and with each other). Will work on fixing that later.
lokii
I will have a look at the shapefile at some point. For now maybe a few comments.

QUOTE (Tzeentch @ Jul 3 2013, 04:02 AM) *
I cleared up some issues on the Sioux/UCAS borders where it was obvious the map was following a river or road.
Don't know what you mean but I noticed that the Sioux/UCAS border seems to be almost identical with the border between time zones -6 and -7. I didn't end up using that information though, as I didn't have coordinates for the time zones.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Standard...f_the_world.png

QUOTE (Tzeentch @ Jul 3 2013, 10:04 PM) *
As I thought it might be useful, I created a quick map of the Bogota area that shows the nearby inhabited areas
This is a rough suggestion for a correction of the old (pre-2074) border between Aztlan and Amazonia. It's based on the verbal description of the border from the Aztlan sourcebook. Following it the Anniversary edition map (and thus the Almanac map) is incorrect. Specifically Santiago de Cali should be on Aztlaner territory. I still haven't corrected that issue on my maps. Of course now after the end of the war the border has moved a bit to the south.

http://shadowhelix.pegasus.de/Datei:Aztlan...f-Korrektur.png

Just as a general comment before I continue, the Almanac world map has a lot of issues. Especially Asia has changed quite a lot from the geography laid out in Shadows of Asia. The first map I linked to, shows were territories have been readjusted. This was done without any explanation in the canon and in an unlikely way. For example the Chinese states now conform more to the old PRC administrative borders. More on the specifics for Africa and Europe below.

QUOTE (Tzeentch @ Jul 4 2013, 04:26 AM) *
I did a bit of surgery around Asamado because it was a bit of a cluster in that area and the borders cut up major cities and stuff (which I doubt was the intent). On the AfricaChanges map you can see that Asamando expanded a bit, as did Sekondi, at the expense of the Gold and Ivory Coast Tribal Lands. The orange areas are existing major urban areas.
I don't know what problems you had, but the African borders are badly aligned with the satellite image underneath. Your solution changes the map quite a bit. Don't know, I eventually got pretty close in marrying the intention of the Sixth World Almanac with Cyberpirates! using additional geographic features:

http://shadowhelix.pegasus.de/Datei:Anpass...enbeinküste.png

QUOTE (Tzeentch @ Jul 5 2013, 10:21 PM) *
All of Europe has been digitized and files updated. I'll be uploading a few maps soon. Note that there are some border issues around Luxembourgh because the SOE and SWA maps are really hard to square with existing borders and city locations (and with each other). Will work on fixing that later.
Yeah, forget the Almanac on Germany. The German translation had this corrected map:

http://shadowhelix.pegasus.de/Datei:Adl_almanach_de.jpg

But perhaps even more helpful is the Germany map from the German translation of the Anniversary edition and a map based on the SOX map in the German and French SOX sourcebook (the map from the book is unfortunately no longer available from the Pegasus homepage):

http://shadowhelix.pegasus.de/Datei:ADL_2072.jpg
http://shadowhelix.pegasus.de/Datei:Karte_Sox.png

Once again, the map I first linked to shows other problems with Europe, such as Greece, which misses the lower half of Albania and the Swiss Canton Ticino which actually went to Italy.

I have to see, maybe I can convert some of my coordinate sets into a shapefile.
Tzeentch
QUOTE (lokii @ Jul 5 2013, 11:35 PM) *
Don't know what you mean but I noticed that the Sioux/UCAS border seems to be almost identical with the border between time zones -6 and -7. I didn't end up using that information though, as I didn't have coordinates for the time zones.

-- I ended up using rivers and roads for the border. It seems to match the original artistic intent and the current administrative boundaries.
QUOTE
Specifically Santiago de Cali should be on Aztlaner territory. I still haven't corrected that issue on my maps. Of course now after the end of the war the border has moved a bit to the south.

-- That's almost 100 km south of the Almanac border. In my mind I imagine the new Aztlan border follows the mountain range down to Ipiales but I since War! had no maps I don't know smile.gif
-- I'll keep the borders as close to what was in the Almanac as possible for right now. But yeah, I would file that entire border area as being in an area of canonical doubt.
QUOTE
Just as a general comment before I continue, the Almanac world map has a lot of issues. Especially Asia has changed quite a lot from the geography laid out in Shadows of Asia. The first map I linked to, shows were territories have been readjusted. This was done without any explanation in the canon and in an unlikely way. For example the Chinese states now conform more to the old PRC administrative borders.

-- I finished Asia so you can see that they exactly match provincial boundaries in most cases. I don't have a big problem with that. Certainly simplified map creation that's for sure.
QUOTE
I don't know what problems you had, but the African borders are badly aligned with the satellite image underneath. Your solution changes the map quite a bit. Don't know, I eventually got pretty close in marrying the intention of the Sixth World Almanac with Cyberpirates! using additional geographic features:

-- The biggest problem was Asamando which didn't correspond to any natural features on the ground, barely corresponded at all to any existing units in Ghana, and just didn't look like it made much sense. Your version looks good, I've had some trouble rectifying your maps though. What basemaps were you using?
QUOTE
Yeah, forget the Almanac on Germany. The German translation had this corrected map:

-- That Anniversary map looks really nice but I'm having a hell of a problem trying to rubbersheet it. frown.gif
QUOTE
But perhaps even more helpful is the Germany map from the German translation of the Anniversary edition and a map based on the SOX map in the German and French SOX sourcebook (the map from the book is unfortunately no longer available from the Pegasus homepage):

So the SAR borders follows no natural or manmade barriers and just sort of wanders around the countryside? Hmm. I'll have to consider how to handle this one.
QUOTE
Once again, the map I first linked to shows other problems with Europe, such as Greece, which misses the lower half of Albania and the Swiss Canton Ticino which actually went to Italy.

-- I suppose in this case it's also a question of what was an art mistake and what was actually intended.
lokii
QUOTE (Tzeentch @ Jul 6 2013, 02:00 AM) *
-- I finished Asia so you can see that they exactly match provincial boundaries in most cases. I don't have a big problem with that. Certainly simplified map creation that's for sure.
Well, I understand the sentiment, but even if they had the intention to simplify future map making, they could have gone one administrative level lower for most countries to get a closer match and still use current borders. In some cases the differences are really glaring, Henan has lost a third of its territory...

QUOTE (Tzeentch @ Jul 6 2013, 02:00 AM) *
-- The biggest problem was Asamando which didn't correspond to any natural features on the ground, barely corresponded at all to any existing units in Ghana, and just didn't look like it made much sense. Your version looks good, I've had some trouble rectifying your maps though. What basemaps were you using?
The map is a Mercator projection, only cut off in the south and maybe north I think. Maybe this helps?

http://shadowhelix.pegasus.de/images/a/a7/...00_and_2072.png

You are right Asamando basically is free hand drawn on the map. I have the coordinates (long/lat) right here in the commentary below the image. Can you import something like that?

http://shadowhelix.pegasus.de/Datei:Fl%C3%...1_merc_n150.svg

Same for Baulé:

http://shadowhelix.pegasus.de/Datei:Fl%C3%...1_merc_n168.svg

QUOTE (Tzeentch @ Jul 6 2013, 02:00 AM) *
So the SAR borders follows no natural or manmade barriers and just sort of wanders around the countryside? Hmm. I'll have to consider how to handle this one.
If, you can import Asamando, I should be able to give you the SOX in the same format.

By the way, as you mentioned adding statistics, here is an overview of the world population:

http://shadowhelix.pegasus.de/Weltbev%C3%B6lkerung

There is also CSV file with the data at the bottom under "Datensatz" (data set).
Tzeentch
QUOTE (lokii @ Jul 6 2013, 07:49 AM) *
Well, I understand the sentiment, but even if they had the intention to simplify future map making, they could have gone one administrative level lower for most countries to get a closer match and still use current borders. In some cases the differences are really glaring, Henan has lost a third of its territory...

-- I went down to administrative subunit level if that helps. I checked the Shadows of Asia map and it looks pretty close to the SWA version.
QUOTE
You are right Asamando basically is free hand drawn on the map. I have the coordinates (long/lat) right here in the commentary below the image. Can you import something like that?

-- Yeah I can use the coordinates directly. Note that the Cyberpirates and your map don't quite match the SWA map which has the Tribal Lands surrounding Asamando on all sides. Probably a bit of artistic lazyness there.
QUOTE
If, you can import Asamando, I should be able to give you the SOX in the same format.

-- Sounds good. I think those borders need a closer look in the future, though.
QUOTE
There is also CSV file with the data at the bottom under "Datensatz" (data set).

-- I'll join that to the dataset (well, after I check to make sure we were using the same names and such).

-- If you want this info in another data format that Arc supports, let me know. I can also check with Catalyst to see if they mind me releasing GeoTIFF versions of the Sixth World Atlas map.

EDIT: Once the major borders are all fixed I'm going to start adding the Shadowrun administrative units, when available.
lokii
QUOTE (Tzeentch @ Jul 6 2013, 08:11 PM) *
-- I went down to administrative subunit level if that helps. I checked the Shadows of Asia map and it looks pretty close to the SWA version.
I look at my map and it doesn't. wink.gif But I guess it depends on your definition of "pretty close". I don't think they went deeper than level 1, you can get better results if you do. That's how I constructed the borders, adding or subtracting the administrative areas to get as close as possible and than use correction lines that I traced from rubber-sheeted Shadowrun maps. Never finished the documentation of all constructions, but here would be one example of the process:

http://shadowhelix.pegasus.de/Datei:Konstr..._Amzonien_1.png

QUOTE (Tzeentch @ Jul 6 2013, 08:11 PM) *
-- Yeah I can use the coordinates directly. Note that the Cyberpirates and your map don't quite match the SWA map which has the Tribal Lands surrounding Asamando on all sides. Probably a bit of artistic lazyness there.
No, if you look at the differences 2000/2072 map or the Almanac comparison map I incorporated that. The corrective coordinates should be "Korrekturlinie 6: Grenze Mali-Faso--Gold- und Elfenbeinküste Stammesländer" here:

http://shadowhelix.pegasus.de/Datei:Fl%C3%..._merc_n6951.svg

You are right about the Cyberpirates! map. But if you remove the portion of Burkina Faso with the above line Asamando remains at the same position I think.

QUOTE (Tzeentch @ Jul 6 2013, 08:11 PM) *
-- Sounds good. I think those borders need a closer look in the future, though.
Here you go:

http://shadowhelix.pegasus.de/Datei:SOX_coordinates.txt

Also, I remembered that the French wiki has a copy of the map. If you look at the level of detail, I would say the SOX border is well-described.

http://shadowrun.fr/wiki/Image:SOX.jpg

QUOTE (Tzeentch @ Jul 6 2013, 08:11 PM) *
-- I'll join that to the dataset (well, after I check to make sure we were using the same names and such).
It's in German of course, but I think most of the names should be recognizable. Just ask if anything remains unclear.

QUOTE (Tzeentch @ Jul 6 2013, 08:11 PM) *
EDIT: Once the major borders are all fixed I'm going to start adding the Shadowrun administrative units, when available.
There I have some stuff too.

I already gave you the link to the Germany map which has the new Alliance states.

Pegasus added administrative borders to Azania for the German translation of the Almanac. That should have the seal of approval of Catalyst:

http://shadowhelix.pegasus.de/Datei:GeoPos...arte_Azania.svg

That's how France should look with the known changes: Expanded Bretagne (04), Auvergne Zone (23), added Wallonie (24),
SOX portion of Lorraine as Nord Lorraine (22):

http://shadowhelix.pegasus.de/Datei:%C3%9C..._Frankreich.png

Inofficial Kenia, assuming current administrative units plus the new Mount Kilimanjaro district:

http://shadowhelix.pegasus.de/Datei:%C3%9C...inzen_Kenia.png

UCAS states map (finally with all Canadian additions):

http://shadowrun.wikia.com/wiki/File:Overv...UCAS_states.png

Also are you aware of the missing alterations to the coastline in Sixth World Almanac map? There is mainly California and the European coast. For the latter one, the UNL map: (the German altered coast line is on the Pegasus map I linked to above and I don't have a close up map of Denmark)

http://shadowhelix.pegasus.de/Datei:GeoPos...nskarte_VNL.svg
lokii
Oh, yeah. Fun German fact: Ivory is called "Elfenbein" in German which if you know nothing about the etymology would translate to "leg of an elf" unfortunately in reality it just means "bones of an elefant". Anyway you can imagine the pun potential.
Tzeentch
QUOTE (lokii @ Jul 6 2013, 10:12 PM) *
Also are you aware of the missing alterations to the coastline in Sixth World Almanac map? There is mainly California and the European coast. For the latter one, the UNL map: (the German altered coast line is on the Pegasus map I linked to above and I don't have a close up map of Denmark.

-- The SWA map is drawn on what appears to be the NASA Blue Marble graphic. The coastal maps from the CFS sourcebook are too abstract to really get much from. In general I'm just assuming the coasts are basically the same unless it's clearly not.
lokii
QUOTE (Tzeentch @ Jul 6 2013, 11:50 PM) *
-- The SWA map is drawn on what appears to be the NASA Blue Marble graphic. The coastal maps from the CFS sourcebook are too abstract to really get much from. In general I'm just assuming the coasts are basically the same unless it's clearly not.
At the time of CFS the coast line has not yet changed. I'm referring to the 2069 earthquake, its results can be seen on a map in Corporate Enclaves. Once again I don't have a close up map of the broken coast as it is split between these to countries:

http://shadowhelix.pegasus.de/Datei:GeoPositionskarte Kalifornien.svg
http://shadowhelix.pegasus.de/Datei:GeoPos...arte_Pueblo.svg

EDIT: By the way, the southern border of Trans-Polar Aleut Nation follows the arctic circle on the North American continent, the same on northeast Asia but there the "base line" is altered.
Tzeentch
<chuckle> Wow, well . . . this whole exercise has really reinforced the idea that the Shadowrun canon has become an unmanageable clusterfuck. I looked at the map of LA in Enclaves and just set it down and laughed. It doesn't make any sense with what is said in other sourcebooks. Were the authors even familiar with the LA region? Did later authors realize LA was flooded? So many questions .... ugh.

Yeah, will update the coastline stuff tomorrow I think. Looks like some decent registration locations I can use.

TPA I'm saving for last mainly because it's the least problematic to change later smile.gif I read through the Bogota stuff in Storm Front but it's not clear where the new border is really supposed to be. No maps at all, again.

Edit: BTW what are you using to generate your maps? Is it a format I can read in Arc or that you can export as a GeoTIFF or something?
hermit
QUOTE
I looked at the map of LA in Enclaves and just set it down and laughed. It doesn't make any sense with what is said in other sourcebooks. Were the authors even familiar with the LA region? Did later authors realize LA was flooded? So many questions .... ugh.

Magic. In this case, a huge astral ... something called Deep Lacuna which just manifested because it felt like that. And no, I doubt they had. wink.gif

One issues I didn't find mentioned: there's the issue of the huge swath of land Aztlan feigned to give to the Confeds and gave to Pueblo instead. Nobody really knows what this looks like (since no maps), but I made a map once the author (Wakshaani) said is "pretty accurate".
lokii
QUOTE (Tzeentch @ Jul 7 2013, 08:30 AM) *
<chuckle> Wow, well . . . this whole exercise has really reinforced the idea that the Shadowrun canon has become an unmanageable clusterfuck.
Though I would argue, it's exactly this kind of infrastructure work you are doing that makes it manageable again.

QUOTE (Tzeentch @ Jul 7 2013, 08:30 AM) *
Did later authors realize LA was flooded?
I sure hope so. Somebody want to depress me with counter examples?

QUOTE (Tzeentch @ Jul 7 2013, 08:30 AM) *
Yeah, will update the coastline stuff tomorrow I think. Looks like some decent registration locations I can use.
You would think that, but I remember it was one of the maps that gave me trouble. Once again profit from my pains: Any of the coordinate sets found in the description of the following three country areas that have the word "Küstenlinie" (coast line) in the title corresponds to a trace of the new Californian coast:

http://shadowhelix.pegasus.de/Datei:Fl%C3%..._merc_n3614.svg
http://shadowhelix.pegasus.de/Datei:Fl%C3%..._merc_n1233.svg
http://shadowhelix.pegasus.de/Datei:Fl%C3%..._merc_n5664.svg

They are not completely accurate but I think a good approximation. Back then my registration was somewhat okay, but despite the city markers I couldn't get Middle to Southern California and Baja California to match all at the same time and ended up doing local matching instead. Maybe you will fair better.

QUOTE (Tzeentch @ Jul 7 2013, 08:30 AM) *
Edit: BTW what are you using to generate your maps? Is it a format I can read in Arc or that you can export as a GeoTIFF or something?
My maps are based on the Global Administrative Areas (GADM) dataset (that's why most of my maps have a particular Creative Commons license):

http://gadm.org/country

Using that data I compiled them along with Sixth World coordinates using a Perl library called Proj4. Handwritten code... Somehow I didn't want to use the available GIS software.

http://search.cpan.org/~sderle/Geo-Proj4-0.11/Proj4.pm

My own coordinate sets of geographical structures of the Sixth world are in exactly the format you saw. I might be able to create a shapefile, with say all my traces. But I would have to look into how to do that first.

QUOTE (hermit @ Jul 7 2013, 11:12 AM) *
One issues I didn't find mentioned: there's the issue of the huge swath of land Aztlan feigned to give to the Confeds and gave to Pueblo instead. Nobody really knows what this looks like (since no maps), but I made a map once the author (Wakshaani) said is "pretty accurate".
Now, if you draw a map of the new Atzlan-Amazonian border that is said to be "pretty accurate", I could do some timeline map keeping. wink.gif


Something I did not think of back when I did all the map registration stuff, is that at least some of the map makers hang around Dumpshock or similar places. If they could be made to confess the exact projection parameters of their maps, much more accurate traces should be possible. I have a list of maps in sourcebooks here with a lonely second column that begs to be filled:

http://shadowhelix.pegasus.de/Shadowhelix:Karten/Quellen
Tzeentch
QUOTE (lokii @ Jul 7 2013, 01:54 PM) *
Though I would argue, it's exactly this kind of infrastructure work you are doing that makes it manageable again.

Well, I can hope. At the very least I want to build something so that maps can be easily generated, so we don't have a War! and Storm Front situation again.

QUOTE
I sure hope so. Somebody want to depress me with counter examples?

SWA doesn't mention anything about a good chunk of the city being underwater. It just says "The city is still recovering from its most recent disaster, the double earthquakes and subsequent formation of the astral construct known as the Deep Lacuna."

Combine that with the current coastline, and one would be excused not to know about it, and does any of the recent sourcebooks that mention the Lacuna also mention the city being sunk?
QUOTE
Something I did not think of back when I did all the map registration stuff, is that at least some of the map makers hang around Dumpshock or similar places. If they could be made to confess the exact projection parameters of their maps, much more accurate traces should be possible. I have a list of maps in sourcebooks here with a lonely second column that begs to be filled:

Well. Let's put it this way. For Salish-Shidhe, Tir Tairngire, and the Trans-Polar Aleut maps in SR3 products I wasn't asked about maps and didn't need to do anything about it. Your best bet is actually to contact Adam Jury and see if he has some insight into how the maps were created.
lokii
QUOTE (Tzeentch @ Jul 7 2013, 07:18 PM) *
SWA doesn't mention anything about a good chunk of the city being underwater. It just says "The city is still recovering from its most recent disaster, the double earthquakes and subsequent formation of the astral construct known as the Deep Lacuna."

Combine that with the current coastline, and one would be excused not to know about it, and does any of the recent sourcebooks that mention the Lacuna also mention the city being sunk?
I believe the Horizon Adventures and one of the Dawn of the Artifacts books had maps that indicated awareness of the changed coast line. But very true the Sixth World Almanac is a loose canon could lead to accidental retcon on casual handling, I hope people don't trust that book too much. wink.gif

QUOTE (Tzeentch @ Jul 7 2013, 07:18 PM) *
Well. Let's put it this way. For Salish-Shidhe, Tir Tairngire, and the Trans-Polar Aleut maps in SR3 products I wasn't asked about maps and didn't need to do anything about it. Your best bet is actually to contact Adam Jury and see if he has some insight into how the maps were created.
Okay, thanks for the tip. Maybe I do that.
hermit
QUOTE
Now, if you draw a map of the new Atzlan-Amazonian border that is said to be "pretty accurate", I could do some timeline map keeping.

Here's the new Aztlan northern border in entirety. And here's a map of the disputed region in former Colombia. Not my work, but probably the best guess we have. All we know is that Aztlan "advanced 50 kilometers".
lokii
QUOTE (hermit @ Jul 7 2013, 08:10 PM) *
Thanks.

QUOTE (hermit @ Jul 7 2013, 08:10 PM) *
And here's a map of the disputed region in former Colombia. Not my work, but probably the best guess we have. All we know is that Aztlan "advanced 50 kilometers".
Well, that is my map. biggrin.gif Part of my War! relief package.

By the way, any news on the map front from Shadowrun Fifth Edition? I would be very astonished if they didn't have a North America map and by all means it should have the new Aztlan border on it.
Tzeentch
Ok got the Corporate Enclave LA map georectified. Why do they call the I-15 the I-5? Anyways, I've uploaded the georectified image to the Dropbox as a GeoTIFF. It looks like over half of the LA basin is flooded. Several HUNDRED square kilometers of ground. This should have caused a massive tsunami. I suppose all that mass just got swapped with the Lacuna though (not going to worry about that stuff, the other understated ramifications are harder to explain).

Looks like parts of Pendleton got flooded. Call in the FMC!

Update: I rectified your coastlines and we had quite a bit different borders for CFS/Tir and a tiny difference for the CFS/Aztlan border:) I'll be tracing your coastline though, I think it looks pretty swank.

Update: Also, I fixed the remaining topology errors. So there shouldn't be any more underlaps/overlaps of country borders anywhere now. Also fixed some of the islands off the amazonian coast but at some point who owns those (and some of the Greek/Turkish islands) should be squared away :/

Update: Uploaded your CFS sunken coastline map as a GeoTIFF (Coastline_Sunken1) for reference.

Update: The overview Cali map is extraordinarily distorted in the Enclaves book. Rectifying it is difficult.

Update: Hm. Ok something is actually wrong with the Corporate Enclave map on p. 12. It appears to be based on a local projection centered on LA. As you move away from there the map projection is distorting angles. I am not sure that I can exactly match the SoCal sinking profile.
hermit
QUOTE
This should have caused a massive tsunami. I suppose all that mass just got swapped with the Lacuna though (not going to worry about that stuff, the other understated ramifications are harder to explain).

Well, the disaster that caused the flooded LA situation was caused by enchanted nuclear weapons (yes, really) and followed by two massive earthquakes (the "Twins"). To CGL's credit, in every LA supplement I can think of, this IS taken as a given.
Tzeentch
OK I figured it out. The roads on the Corporate Enclave map are wrong. WAY wrong. And since I was using road intersections as tie points it was messing everything up.
Tzeentch
OK my project for the day, fixing the coast of the CFS, PCC, and Aztlan as much as possible based on the Corporate Enclave book, is done. I don't have a lot of faith in the San Diego area but the LA rectified map was a perfect match so that should be good. Note that the southern part of the LA map does NOT match the coastline shown in the overview map.

I also updated the CFS/PCC/Aztlan borders based on the maps.

Also uploaded some simple maps showing the areas of LA and San Diego that got flooded. For the Marines I have a zoomed-in area showing Oceaside and Pendleton smile.gif

Edit: No, the flooded areas do not seem to match existing mountain ranges or even coastlines frown.gif
lokii
So, I wasn't imagining problems with that map.
lokii
QUOTE (hermit @ Jul 7 2013, 09:48 PM) *
Well, the disaster that caused the flooded LA situation was caused by enchanted nuclear weapons (yes, really) and followed by two massive earthquakes (the "Twins"). To CGL's credit, in every LA supplement I can think of, this IS taken as a given.
QUOTE (Tzeentch @ Jul 8 2013, 01:25 AM) *
Edit: No, the flooded areas do not seem to match existing mountain ranges or even coastlines frown.gif
I don't remember enchanted nuclear weapons involved in this (Winternight leftovers?), but the Twins caused the flooding of LA. Elevation shifts are further explained with the Deep Lacuna (see "The Fall").
hermit
It was Winternight's strike at the San Andreas Fault that caused the Twins, if I am not mistaken.
lokii
The earthquakes were 2069 though.
Tzeentch
Is that in a novel? Systems Failure doesn't mention it, but half the stuff from that plot book was conveniently ignored ever since smile.gif~
hermit
Corporate Enclaves, I think? There were no English novels set in LA since White Noise.
lokii
QUOTE (hermit @ Jul 8 2013, 09:45 AM) *
Corporate Enclaves, I think? There were no English novels set in LA since White Noise.
Okay, White Noise? Never heard of it.
bannockburn
Probably Dead Air, by Jak Koke
hermit
Dead Air. Sorry.
Tzeentch
On the German map of Europe the SOX is a zone, with only Luxembourgh being a country. The Saarland doesn't have a German administrative unit (the borders are Westrhein-Luxemburg to the north and Badisch-Pfalz to the east. I'm not clear about how this works. Is it a zone or a country? Is Luxembourgh part of it?

Oh, and the coastline on the German map to the north is really screwy. I think that part must have been rushed at the end or something because I have the borders matching really well but those islands are all distorted. I had to use a spline fit to get it to match, I've uploaded the georectified TIFF as Europe_Rectified to the dropbox so you can see it. Fairly happy with how it matched up. Will be fixing the borders and such today.
lokii
QUOTE (hermit @ Jul 8 2013, 04:40 PM) *
Dead Air. Sorry.
Ah, I kinda see the connection with white noise. Anyway you might be right about the nuclear devices.

QUOTE (Tzeentch @ Jul 8 2013, 10:28 PM) *
On the German map of Europe the SOX is a zone, with only Luxembourgh being a country. The Saarland doesn't have a German administrative unit (the borders are Westrhein-Luxemburg to the north and Badisch-Pfalz to the east. I'm not clear about how this works. Is it a zone or a country? Is Luxembourgh part of it?
The SOX is a not country, but there is a conflict over its status. The corporations basically believe it to be their possession after they got some special rights of usage. Germany and France still regard their portion of the zone as belonging to their territory. Luxembourg theoretically still belongs to the people of Westrhein-Luxemburg were they settled after fleeing their country. There was some plotline with France trying to assert its rights a while back. So I would say your representation of the SOX is down to personal taste. I chose to go with the old country borders, so German/French/Luxembourgish border and put a special marker on the map for the zone. Like this:

http://shadowhelix.pegasus.de/Datei:GeoPos...nskarte_ADL.svg

QUOTE (Tzeentch @ Jul 8 2013, 10:28 PM) *
Oh, and the coastline on the German map to the north is really screwy. I think that part must have been rushed at the end or something because I have the borders matching really well but those islands are all distorted. I had to use a spline fit to get it to match, I've uploaded the georectified TIFF as Europe_Rectified to the dropbox so you can see it. Fairly happy with how it matched up. Will be fixing the borders and such today.
Not sure, what you mean. There are a lot of new islands. Or do you mean the Frisian Islands?
Tzeentch
-- Big updates to the Balkans regions to match Shadows of Europe.
-- Updated Netherlands to match Shadows of Europe as much as possible. Note that the European Anniversary coastline does not really match the SoE coast. Also used lokii's map. It may still be off a bit but I can adjust later.
-- Should be able to fix up the last parts of Africa that need to be updated and Version 1 will be complete (map consistent with the Shadowrun world up to 2072).
Seriously Mike
QUOTE (hermit @ Jul 8 2013, 09:21 AM) *
It was Winternight's strike at the San Andreas Fault that caused the Twins, if I am not mistaken.

Nope, Corporate Enclaves clearly states that the Winternight attack on LA failed for an unknown reason and whatever they planned to deploy didn't go off. There is speculation that Winternight's weapon cache is hidden somewhere in the heavily irradiated area near the former nuclear plant south of LA.
lokii
This my first continent-wide construction documentation, starting with Africa.

http://shadowhelix.pegasus.de/images/7/75/...tion_Afrika.png

It is meant to be viewed from close up. The different administrative areas used for construction (0 to 2 here) are marked with a green value of descending brightness. The black lines are normal borders. White dashed lines are the Shadowrun country borders, yellow lines are coordinates taken from Shadowrun maps, which with the exception of a few cases (like the Lake Volta for Asante) do not match other geographical features as far as I know. All these lines are designated a number (one line for the Ilemi Triangle in/above Kenya is still missing). White dashed plus yellow lines form the whole Sixth World border of a country.

I hadn't noticed before, but the western border of Asamando is probably supposed to be the border of Ghana. So at least this side could be based on an existing border.

I will see, whether I can get all the yellow lines into a shapefile.
Tzeentch
Cool. I sent a few questions to the line developer about a few map issues that I hope will clear up some of the Africa issues. I've put the Ivory Coast border changes off until I get some official word on the intent with Asamando (honestly, I don't think any writers looked at a map of that area at all).

I also noticed I was using the wrong southern border for the SSC and fixed that (the Idaho Falls region is a bit hazy in how that's supposed to work, I don't think the city is supposed to be bisected). I need to fix the Denver area as I was using the SWA and those borders are ... not very reliable compared to the close-up maps. I also ran the entire shapefile through a topology check again after adding all those islands. I found a LOT of islands that are not clearly divvied up to anyone and made those separate entries.

I will probably also try and fix some of the Seattle problems but that's already a headache as the various Seattle sourcebooks all trace their map lineage to the SR1 Seattle sourcebook which had some seriously weird problems (especially with regard to the downtown arrangement). That might require some developer insight too.
lokii
You are aware of Fex' map of the Seattle Metroplex?

http://www.fexes.de/downloads/SR2050_Seatt...ts_(lowres).pdf
Tzeentch
Nope, never heard of it before . . . but it looks like it has the borders at the level of detail I was looking for smile.gif
Tzeentch
OK I've used lokii's borders for the Baule Empire and Anyl for the most part (using the Konstruction map). However, I cannot actually reconcile SWA with Cyberpirates and the borders shown in Feral Cities. So I've used the Feral Cities borders, which shows Asamando as having the lands shown as contested in the SWA. Feral Cities also plays merry hell with the borders on the west of Nigeria so Benin and a few other borders got moved around a bit. I got pretty good tie points on the Feral Cities map so I'm pretty sure that matches.

So. Well. I don't think there is any possible way of getting all these Ivory Coast borders to match the books since the books are all over the place (the Cyberpirates map in particular seems to use geographic features more as suggestions). So I've applied some Ken's Personal Metaplot Magic to reconcile these borders to make some sort of sense and await further refinement and instruction from the lords on high. Basically that means that I've looked at all the maps (including lokii's heroic efforts to get this fixed) and have done what I can and called it good.

I expanded the Caribbean League a bit as it shows that ALL the islands off Amazonia are actually part of the League.

I feel a LOT better about the new borders for Denver. I used the KML made by Leigh to trace around.

I have no idea what the new PCC border is so haven't updated that. Awaiting word from on high.

Fixed more of the PCC/S-S border. The southern border isn't drawn very consistently so meh, it follows the river up to near Idaho Falls.

Note that Boise is NOT a split city. That's not consistent with the early novels that say Boise is SSC controlled nor SONA or NAN1. I don't care what some random short story says smile.gif

Seattle has a TON of data available (http://www5.kingcounty.gov/gisdataportal/Default.aspx) and some of my fellow students do research for King County, so a future Seattle map might be pretty feature rich (Everett . . . not so much lol)! The current boundaries are just "good enough" and a rough trace. So don't be surprised if it looks weird close up - this isn't intended to be the detailed Seattle map that will be entirely separate (FYI I'll be splitting off LA as well).






lokii
So, Europe next:

http://shadowhelix.pegasus.de/Datei:Konstr...tion_Europa.png

I didn't mark the lines that create or modify islands of the coast of the Netherlands and Germany. I also didn't mark the interior borders of the Balkans region, as those are from around the early 2060s and supposedly very fluent. The European portion of West Turkey is missing. I put include that with Asia. But the free city of Istanbul/Constantinople is there.

EDIT: I added the rest of the new islands.

QUOTE (Tzeentch @ Jul 16 2013, 05:17 AM) *
OK I've used lokii's borders for the Baule Empire and Anyl for the most part (using the Konstruction map). However, I cannot actually reconcile SWA with Cyberpirates and the borders shown in Feral Cities. So I've used the Feral Cities borders, which shows Asamando as having the lands shown as contested in the SWA. Feral Cities also plays merry hell with the borders on the west of Nigeria so Benin and a few other borders got moved around a bit. I got pretty good tie points on the Feral Cities map so I'm pretty sure that matches.
Well, I took the view that the Almanac map tries to go back to Cyberpirates so I pretty much ignored Feral Cities except for Nigeria.

By the way, it's Anyi after the Anyi people. The Almanac reliably mislabels the place. biggrin.gif

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anyi_people

QUOTE (Tzeentch @ Jul 16 2013, 05:17 AM) *
Fixed more of the PCC/S-S border. The southern border isn't drawn very consistently so meh, it follows the river up to near Idaho Falls.

Note that Boise is NOT a split city. That's not consistent with the early novels that say Boise is SSC controlled nor SONA or NAN1. I don't care what some random short story says smile.gif
Okay, the map from the Tir Tairngire sourcebook is actually the best source in this regard. I didn't end up using it, as I didn't have a good data source for road coordinates that was compatible with the license for the rest of my geo data. Anyway the map shows that the border between SSC/TT and then SSC/PCC is actually supposed to follow Interstate 84 then Interstate 86. The map of North America in NAN2 shows the same.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_84_(Oregon–Utah)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_86_(west)

Actually, I reproduced that in one of the first maps I made. That was before I started using GADM:

http://shadowhelix.pegasus.de/Datei:Karte_Tir_Tairngire.png

The Tír Tairngire map also shows that Boise is split between SSC and the Tír (just not the three country border city of later maps, though actually this can also be found on the NAN2 map) and I would argue there is some information from SoNA to back this up:

p.123 "Today the southwest corner of the city is technically still in Tir hands--but this is more a polite fiction used to justify a large tax and duty free merchant zone." (technically reads border to me)

p.152 "The east is wide open except around Boise, where there are some large military stations. The Boise checkpoint guards on both sides are happy to take bribes though. Just don't expect to escape to safety in the SSC if you're being chased by Tir cops--the two nations have a gentleman's agreement to cooperate if one side is pursuing a target trying to escape past the border." (cops = city)

p. 199 "Through either Portland or Boise, regular air and bus routes are available to the SSC and Seattle." (bus stations, air fields = city)


And finally one more aspect I wanted to point you to, in case you don't know about it yet. Indiana has grabbed a little part of Illinois. See Feral Cities p. 32 "Adverse Possession" and p. 33 for the corresponding map.
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