I don't remember writing that about Boise. Hmm. OK now I need to look at that how that would work.

See this is why I started this project, to catch these things and make sure there's a detailed and consistent map everyone could use even for times when I myself want to contradict stuff I wrote in the past because I misremembered lol

edit: I dug Tir Tairngire out of storage and yup, the map clearly shows the city being partitioned. Thanks!

Asia was a bit much. I have 135 lines from Shadowrun maps for this one, so for now I didn't put markers in. The portion of Asia beyond 180° is missing, but it just belongs to TPA. The map shows in essence the geography of Shadows of Asia which was consistent between the different maps in the book with a few minor exceptions. Most parts of Asia can be described using existing state and sub-state borders with some new lines interspersed. The longest new border line runs through Russia, it still traces a few rivers though. As I said before, whereas the Sixth World Almanac simplifies some of the SoA borders, it does not actually explain any of these changes. That is why except for Israel I used the 2064 borders for my alternate world map. Israel and Palestine are still a bit different from SWA, which reflects a change to the world map made in the German translation of the Almanac (should be confirmed with Catalyst). Anyway if nothing else this should have some "historical" value.

Also, note that I split the file because of upload size constraints of the Shadowhelix:

http://shadowhelix.pegasus.de/Datei:Konstr...ion_Asien_1.png
http://shadowhelix.pegasus.de/Datei:Konstr...ion_Asien_2.png

South America:

http://shadowhelix.pegasus.de/Datei:Konstr...Suedamerika.png

So, North America is last. Our discussion reminded me, that there are lot of spots that need reworking. But for completeness' sake I think I will provide the construction of my current state too.

And I appreciate the opportunity for an info dump. My custom stuff was never really suitable for redistribution. So it's good to have a more standardised resource.

And North America:

http://shadowhelix.pegasus.de/Datei:Konstr...Nordamerika.png

Some info regarding the UCAS/CAS border:

http://shadowhelix.pegasus.de/Shadowhelix:...American_States

http://shadowhelix.pegasus.de/Datei:Illust...on_Missouri.png
http://shadowhelix.pegasus.de/Datei:Illust...on_Virginia.png

South Florida is one of the things to be corrected:

http://www.michael.burrage.net/pages/games...ps/sr-maps.html

So, now I will see whether I can get all my coordinate sets into a shape file.

I think the Tir Tairngire map takes the crown of absolutely godawful presentation and accuracy. Sure, that map of the eastern region looks ok, but then you actually stretch it out and they messed up the southern border by over 80 km because they didn't keep track of where the roads and their already drawn borders actually were. It's distorted all to hell and the eastern border doesn't even have the same SHAPE as what is shown on other maps.

Boise is a gigantic metroplex according to that map BTW. Like 8x the current size of the city. Well, this helps explain where all those SSC residents live. Did you know Missoula is on that map? Well you wouldn't because it's not labeled. Did you know that the expansion of the city was pretty much exclusively east but Caldwell, Meridian, and Nampa don't even show up? That the roads are only barely recognizable (and I drive down to Boise quite often)?

And I've traced the source of the trouble by using the MUCH better SONA maps.

Boise is in the wrong spot on most Shadowrun maps. Specifically, it's 60 kilometers off in the SONA map. What they call Boise is the town of Melba.

Adding this to the list of things to find out from on high about.

For my maps, I think I used the coordinates of Boise as an anchor point for where the three country borders meet. Of course while the city might be divided between two countries, it certainly isn't divided between three, so maybe it would still make more sense to use the Tír map, at least in that spot. Also the highways provide a geographically well defined border. As far as I could tell (see my construction map) two freely drawn lines are otherwise needed to describe that segment of the border.

Could you add the list of open issues to your first post?

-- Based on the information provided by Wak Shaani I created maps showing the area encompassed by the PCC land purchase/swap described (but not shown) in Storm Front.

PCC Land Purchase Maps
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/kr36a0211g4szzo/Zef2p4w1fB


-- If you're interested, I also created two maps showing how Missouri is split between the UCAS and CAS, and the fixes I made to Virginia to show the right apportionment of counties between the UCAS and CAS.

Missouri Split Map
* Grey line is Shadowrun border.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/s4p5rfdksmpmmh9/MIssouriSplit.pdf

Virginia Split Map
* The small polygons are the counties.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7tkd53tiq79rlez/VirginiaSplit.pdf

Updated the first post to describe some of the outstanding issues. Currently doing some more tweaks to show what my "final" Asamando map looks like.

You can see some Sioux Nation maps here https://www.dropbox.com/sh/pm1uw6wrc1nbptm/uA_1jcRePU

If you look at the original Seattle Source books several roads, rivers etc are in the wrong place. Later books look like they at least had a map to work off of.

The Enclaves map I've come to learn to live with. I just need the southern coast issue addressed (is San Diego supposed to be islands? That's not really explained in the book).

The LA map in Enclaves perfectly georectified so I'm confident that part is right.

Gold and Ivory Coast
Uploaded my attempted fixes and canon smoothing to https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5lwgnx0leohn71j/q4W8E4R7uN

The maps should be consistent with Feral Cities, p. 69.

-- Asante Nation changed to Kingdom of Asante (not "Assante") as in Feral Cities.

-- Anyl corrected spelling to Anyi.

-- Asamando borders consistent with Feral Cities and swallows most of the contested land seen in SWA. A rump cut-off area of the Gold and Ivory Coast Tribal Area remains in the south (labeled Contested Gold Cost Land).

-- Kingdom of Benin loses a significant amount of land but borders for both kingdoms should match what you see in Feral Cities.

-- On the region map note "Island_NearNigeria." That island has no clear ownership in canon. There's actually quite a few islands like that, and are given generic names in my geodatabase for later assignment.

-- I don't think I can georectify the Lagos map (Feral Cities, p. 93). It's too divergent from the current area to find tie points. I've attached a map showing one of my attempts as LagosNowWhat

Westphalia
Updated the Westphalia area with the map from the Reiseführer (Travel Guide) sourcebook. I had to do a little surgery to get the new coastlines to match at the United Netherlands area but it wasn't too bad. Note that the sourcebook borders are not exactly matching (as you can see on the rectified image), but the other stuff matched close enough that I feel pretty good about the new coastline changes.


Westphalia Updates
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4tp5xmt5odabdsi/K6nynvBMWl

What do you make of Shadows of North America p. 71? "All counties intersecting or to the south of a line drawn from Jasper County to Jefferson County (just south of St. Louis) became the CAS state of South Missouri (with Springfield as state capital)." That is why I simply ignored the Missouri border from all the maps and just used the counties (plus the St. Louis wedge) to create the border line.

Corporate Enclaves p. 34 "The most notable thing about San Diego is that it has turned into a city of islands."

Why do you use that as the standard, though? It does have its problems. If Asamando is expanded like this it swallows up the corporate enclaves of Bibiani (Ares) and Wenchi (Saeder-Krupp). The purple lines on this map:

http://shadowhelix.pegasus.de/Datei:Anpass...enbeinküste.png

Would the megacorps allow their territory to be surrounded by Asamando (assuming they have kept it) and would Thema Laula step on their toes like this? Also Feral Cities is only hinting at why Asamando expanded. The only clue I see is Feral Cities p. 74 "Any invading army is going to find the entire population turned out against them. The Asante found that out the hard way in '64 and '65." This points to an invasion by Asante that Asamando defeated. Maybe they occupied Asante territory afterwards, which would explain part of the changes on the map. But there is no explanation for the Asante's expansion towards the east. On the other hand if Asamando just expelled the Asante invasion force, there would be little need to change the map from the state in Cyberpirates! at all...

Basically all of the remaining colonial possessions could be put on the list of open issues. Just a few examples: the British Falkland Islands or Ascension Island, the French islands around Madagascar like Mayotte and Réunion. Where I see the French fighting tooth and nails to keep them, I would imagine the British either auctioned them off or permanently leased them to corporations, though there is a different precedence set with the Bermudas.

Sweet. Thanks for all the work (I do love me some maps).

I took a look at the Sioux maps, and really liked what I saw. A couple of questions on Sioux.pdf, though:

(Assuming the blue dots are cities)
1) There is an unlabeled blue dot between Bozeman and Hardin (Is maybe Billings?)
2) There are two blue dots in the vicinity of the Cody label
3) Two blue dots in the vicinity of the Laramie label (One of them should be Cheyenne?)
4) There is an unlabeled blue dot to the NW of Sidney, SW of Alliance
5) There is an unlabeled blue dot to the NE of Butte (I'm assuming this is Helena)

Again, thanks for all the work.

-- I'll send this in to the line developer to see if I can get a ruling. Right now I'm assuming the line cutting the counties is right as it's been pretty consistent over every book.


-- Yeah, but I don't think the author actually looked at it. The city is GONE. It didn't nicely get broken up and float apart.


-- The enclaves shown in Cyberpirates are not seen in SWA so I assume they are still largely corporate run or the corps left or who knows
-- I'm willing to bet money that the word from God on this is going to be something like "borders change all the time there." So don't get too wedded to the lines I have up there now, even if it gets blessed.

-- Based on the Cyberpirates fluff I actually assume its more like "Asamando claims this area, no one is powerful enough to press their own claim, so on a map suddenly it's marked "Asamando."

-- I couldn't find anything about who "owns" the Falklands. A lot of those islands, even big ones, don't get borders drawn around them

Ok I sent in a list of questions to Jason Hardy on some of the more outstanding issues.




-- I've made a less busy map showing the borders and cities (and fixed some of the labeling issues - it was not drawing labels that overlapped).

Sioux Region - Cities: https://www.dropbox.com/s/duhc6w75vaczx14/Sioux-Cities.pdf
-- The light grey lines are the current state and national borders.

Sioux Region - Cities With Terrain Background: https://www.dropbox.com/s/j2deqabiioaqi8a/S...ies_Terrain.pdf
-- I like how this looks so will probably keep that background on the other city overview maps.

The main advantage is the cleanly defined geographic structure. Anyway there would still be my maps as kind of a "minority opinion".

Or you could be blamed for every mistake on the maps in perpetuity.

Well, with Feral Cities you get the impression Asamando is a functioning state with a highly educated workforce and an efficient army, just run by ghouls.

-- True. And it wouldn't be hard to update using the actual county borders (one of the nice things about having it all in a GIS is I can trace the legal borders).
-- It's one of the questions I sent in to the line developer. Jason quickly responded saying he would look at it after GenCon was all over

-- At least my maps will be consistently wrong, which is a big improvement over the current state of affairs.

-- Aye. It's a weird place. Take a look at where they supposedly have their capital on Google Earth (there's nothing really there atm in real life). Not the best spot one could imagine. How all that stuff works and they don't even have a port is rather astonishing.

I've uploaded additional sets of maps to https://www.dropbox.com/sh/07i5ony0enrg9nc/_AeouepmBy

The Shattered Coast maps are a closer look at the Corporate Enclaves flooding. I've also shown it overlayed on actual DEMs to illustrate how completely arbitrary the whole thing is.

As always, I take requests (as long as its not too elaborate).

Edit: On the DEM maps you can toggle off the SR Nations layer to see the full DEM. Which actually will just leave you with more questions than it answers, but that functionality is included in all of these GeoPDFs.

Looking at my Denver stuff I remembered something else, that I never got around to fix. The old Denver map, that was republished as a black/white graphic in SoNA, shows that the western border of Denver follows existing secondary roads. I did try to register it, but I didn't quite succeed. If you haven't done so already and you have access to the roads, that would be a good opportunity to get a very precise fit of part of the FRFZ border.

Will update the Denver borders.

Using lokii's XY data, so far I've done the following:

Adjusted the borders of Mauritania, Algeria, and Morocco.

Adjusted/fixed the Sheba southern border with the Ethiomalian Territories (ouch that one was a big error!).

Adjusted the Iraq/Kurdistan border. I don't think these borders were really given much thought, so making some changes to follow recognizable landmarks (notably, roads). It appears the Kirkuk area is under Iraqi control so decided not to use lokii's borders in that area. I think that keeping the As Sulaymaniyah region in Iraq territory looks closer to what is in SWA for this area. The Raniyah spur got cot off for Kurdistan but is probably disputed territory (more than most in that area). I've uploaded a map of the area to https://www.dropbox.com/s/pvy67tqvc22w3fu/Kurdistan.pdf

What I forgot to say. No guarantees. Well, I'm confident about the general positioning of lines, but I'm sure there will be small errors in the placement. On the other hand most of the new borders are very rough anyway. For Africa I think I got a good fit with the Almanac map once I ignored the underlying shape from the satellite image and just matched borders.

Which reminds me of yet another thing. The Almanac map shows a pretty dramatic expansion of the jungle, the whole southern Sahara is overgrown. That should probably be dialed back. I'm not sure it ever was that densely covered by jungle.

-- The Almanac basemap appears to be the Blue Marble Next Generation graphic. So that's not a Shadowrun edit

EDIT: http://visibleearth.nasa.gov/view_cat.php?categoryID=1484

You are right about Blue Marble, but compare the image to the Almanac map. The latitude of the southern tip of the Arabian peninsula is were the Sahel zone ends today. But on the Almanac map what appears to be vegetation reaches to the latitude of the northern end of the Red Sea. That's several million square kilometers. The vegetation has also extended south.

Ah, ok I see what you mean. Yeah, vegetation was probably clonestamped all over the place. Will add that to my list of questions

Edit: Oh, and Madagascar (which canonically does have a spooky super-regrow forest) doesn't have one on the map

In exchange it got a capital (which canonically it doesn't have).

For my Africa map (see Shadowrun Wikia) I used a mixture of two different public domain images from Natural Earth as a base map:

http://www.naturalearthdata.com/downloads/...atural-earth-1/
http://www.naturalearthdata.com/downloads/...atural-earth-2/

The second one, Natural Earth II, is an idealized version of the earth without the influence of human settlement. The Sahara is still pretty much vegetation free on that map. I put the two images together using Natural Earth I outside the tribal areas and Natural Earth II for Congo, Madagascar and a few other places. But I didn't really work from canon references, except with Madagascar.

I had a look at your North America 2075 map. I assume you'll still put the new northern coast of the Baja California ex-peninsula in. So the only other thing I noticed Newfoundland should be part of the UCAS (unless I missed this territorial change). It belongs to Maine to be specific (originally in NAGNA, recently confirmed in Dirty Tricks).

And one more from my resurfacing memories: A few roads I considered using as a border but never got around to try it out, are Trans-Canada highways for the AMC-UCAS border. I think that border was originally meant to follow certain Trans-Canada highways from the east up to the point were the border turns south to connect with the Sioux Nation border. In order from the east it should be described by:

Ontario Highway 11
Ontario Highway 17
Manitoba Highway 1
Saskatchewan Highway 1

I don't believe it works out over the whole border, but maybe some parts could be substituted with highway lines. So something to consider.

A few notes on outstanding issues.

South Florida: At least the map that accompanied the Second Edition shows that the border reaches up to West Palm Beach. It also hugs close to the coast. I think the solution of MJBurrage is better since it considers the description in Cyberpirates!

Aztlan/Amazonia: I would still be interested in the historic border (2050 to mid 2070s). Aztlan p. 106 has the description I based my correction sketch on, but it also has a map that shows the start of the border line from Lake Maracaibo, not the complete border though.

German coast: The Westphalia map looks as if it would fit better, if it is slightly rotated. I don't know if you tried that. Some of the Shadowrun maps appear to be rotated for optics or something.


Finally, if you are up for it, at the end of this process I would really love to have a list of changes in comparison to older maps (and descriptions of borders). Something that says these changes are retcons, but these changes are the result of events in the Sixth World, even if they have not yet been described.

Newfoundland should be in the UCAS.

One thing these maps show is how illogical the CAS complaint about "pliant Canadian politicians" was. Canada got reduced to a tiny little fraction of its former land.

The AMC northern border follows the roads where possible. I made a similar change to the UCAS/CAS border.

The Sioux/UCAS border was similarly modified a bit to follow the natural features and roads that it was obviously attached to. (I suspect the first Shadowrun map was sketched on a road atlas.) I'll double-check what roads I used.

I made some small changes to the Denver western border to fix any egregious differences from the roads that it follows, but kept it a bit abstract as it just gets washed out at the lower resolutions.

This is a question I have in queue with the line developer.

The SWA borders don't appear to even include Cali (and I used the SWA for these borders). Obviously this entire area gets a massive change in 2075. I'm not entirely sure where the 2050 border would be, I will have to look that up.

I'm basically brute forcing some of these graphics as I don't know what projection they were created in (if any). If it was just scale/rotation then two tie points would fix it, but some of the smaller maps are in local coordinate systems of unknown type (probably based on atlas maps or road maps that were then redrawn in Illustrator). That's why you can see some of the georectified images get shifted into "trumpet shapes" and such - they're being shown in Web Mercator (which is my editing coordinate system).

Aye, I can do that.

Yep, this has come up before. Some people (Ontarians presumedly) countered it with the argument, that Ontario is really all you need. To their credit they back the claim up. This post and the ones following it:

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...st&p=993713

Well, as I said before the Sioux/UCAS border is based on the border between two timezones, I guess therefore it is also aligned with roads and as shown in my construction map I described it in part with county borders. If you want to compare with the time zones, here is a shape file: http://efele.net/maps/tz/world/

That was actually why I noticed the discrepancies with the border. According to War! Cali was in Aztlan, but the map in the 20th Anniversary Edition where I took the border line from (probably the Almanac too) implied that it was in Amazonia. The description in the Aztlan sourcebook is clear though, the border runs 50 kilometers south of Cali and the city is mentioned for its military base I believe. I'm interested in the correction mainly to update the animated maps. And while I can come up with something myself of course, I would rather use the official/semiofficial corrected version, if you are interested in also tackling that problem.

By the way, do you still plan to have the Sixth World geographic reference publicly available as a shape file or in a similar format, once everything is done? I realize the data file can become pretty big. Personally, I don't need the normal islands or coasts, but the new structures and the adjusted border lines would be nice to have as data.

Should have said that earlier. Thank you for your effort. I have bemoaned the map situation for so long. Maybe I can find something new to complain about now.

-- I'm not sure it actually ever matched the timezones. I'm overlaying the Natural Earth timezone layer and it sorta matches in some areas but not in others.

-- I took it offline because I was/am doing some heavy edits in some areas (I just changed a big chunk of western the Denver zone based on a really close look at the Denver box set maps, for example)

-- I'm getting pretty happy with the borders so will be exporting the polygons to a line file and then removing the coastline elements so it's just borders (which will be more convenient for overlaying on Google I think).

-- I can upload another dump of the current geodatabase after I do another round of topology checks (I despise overlapping borders!). I'll upload it as a shapefile and KML. If you want another format let me know. The polygon layer should be online at the dropbox within the hour.


-- It won't ever make total sense. The Shadowrun borders will follow natural breaks and roads (which is itself sort of problematic when you think about it, since usually that means the road centerline is a border) and then suddenly veers off in a straight line ignoring everything for hundreds of kilometers, then joins back up with a road and traces that again. It's actually a bit maddening

Oops you were right I had Newfoundland as part of Quebec! Fixed that.

I think it is an exaggerated form of the timezone border, used as a orientation but maybe not correctly positioned. So it's probably irrelevant for our purposes. I'll try it out myself, once I have found my way around Quantum GIS for extracting single coordinate sets from shape files. Then I can also have a look at your shape file.

Though your SR_Nations.shp isn't as big as I would have thought, considering all the structures in there.

But I didn't see that you already had the new Baja California lines in the map. The passage is so narrow, that I couldn't distinguish it from the background because of the grey borders. I think the gap does look a bit wider on the Shadowrun Anniversary North America map but of course Corporate Enclaves' is much more detailed. Though I have to say the borders seem overly zigzaggy, almost like splintered glass.

-- I think that was intentional. The shape and extent of the sundering is something I have in the hopper for the line developer to give a Word of God on. It may just be effectively retconned as bad cartography and temporary flooding.

For completeness sake the border of Trans-Polar Aleut Nation has two main problems in the Sixth World Almanac: North America (goes back to the Shadows of North America map) and Asia where it does not quite follow older maps. In general the T-PA border keeps within the polar circle or about 66° latitude North. This can be seen in Target:Wastelands p. 55 or on this map. The map in Shadows of North America p. 33 shows that the border between Athabaska and T-PA is labeled with "Polar circle" unfortunately the actual border doesn't follow the circle. It should be a straight line for this projection. Since then this wrong line has been copied to new maps. A comparison between Shadows of Asia maps and the one from Target: Wastelands reveals some inconsistencies between both sources (border and controlled islands). I resolved this favoring SoA, but I think mainly because its maps were easier to work with at that point.

Aye, it should probably follow the Arctic Circle.

The Yakut/TPA inconsistencies I think I'll explain as everyone just guessing where the border really is as neither side runs land surveyors out there or has an official treaty. I updated a Google KML of the latest border linework file (North America is covered) and the nations shapes yesterday. I also uploaded the latest export of the nations shapefile. I've been busy with editing my annotations to create something that looks like the "SWA style." For example: https://www.dropbox.com/s/jd4m9v6budfjq0o/test_NW.pdf

But the border was created in 2018 with Russia on the other side. I suspect that they cared about it.

I think I solved one inconsistency between T:WL and SoA with the map on Target: Smuggler Havens p. 32. Both actually use that map as a base, but in T:WL for the western border of the Asian portion of T-PA the border line between Yakut and Russia was used instead of that between Yakut and T-PA (I assume by mistake).

Also, I noticed for that border I mislabeled the file with longitude/latitude coordinates I gave you. It is called "adm0_na_Yakut--Trans-Polar_Aleut.csv" but should be "as" instead. The border not only (roughly) follows the polar circle also the "indent" in the border is based on real world geography, the shape is created by two rivers Omolon and Kolyma.


By the way, I added a few more instances of your "Alter Ego" Kzeentch weighing in. One of them right next to the T-PA map in Target: Wastelands. That should make you something of an expert.

I put this here as a footnote, why the Almanac's simplifications shouldn't be the last word on Asian geography. If there ever is another word...

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...t&p=1308811

Just following up on this ancient thread; I'm amazed and awed by the amount of work you all plied into this! I miss Dumpshock now!

However, it looks like a lot of Tzeentch's dropbox files aren't responding. Are the results of all of this work living over on the Shadowhelix these days?

Well, not the things Tzeentch produced. You have to contact him about those. But all the different maps and other information I linked to in this thread should still be in the Shadowhelix. In general either the following category:

http://shadowhelix.pegasus.de/Kategorie:!Bilder/Karten

or this portal page:

http://shadowhelix.pegasus.de/Shadowhelix:Karten

are good entry points for all the map stuff in the wiki ('Karte' is the German word for map).

Whatever happened to the new North America map?