QUOTE (Moirdryd @ Jan 7 2014, 07:01 AM)

I'm sure you're right in that regard Fatum, but many of the skill / chargen rants have come from SR4 players who seem to believe that the top of the top should be, if not start able with then at least within arms reach. Which is fine for say Prime Runner games or entirely differant genre concepts entirely (like Exalted for example) but for what I've seen presented in 1-3 & 5 that kind if thing isn't portrayed as a core/starting concept outside of the Prime Runner type game. Given that I have not played SR4 and do not own any my only available basis for evaluation are the type of themes expressed and embraced in 1-3 and iterated in 5 vs the seeming objection coming from those who prefere SR4, leading me to believe from what I've read that beginning near the very top of your game in almost every aspect is a promoted concept for the edition.
Putting it short: at SR4E chargen, you can have all skills at rating 4, and either one skill at rating 6 (max) or two skills at rating 5. That's pretty far from the top of the food chain (if only because you need more than one skill), but it's definitely up there with skilled professionals.
I started playing pnp SR with fourth, but from what I gather, starting characters were actually
more powerful in, say, third edition.
QUOTE (Moirdryd @ Jan 7 2014, 07:01 AM)

For those who'd wonder why I'd see this you only have to look at the differance in concept between what Adveturers were in relativistic power terms from AD&D and 3.5 to 4E
To... what, sorry? I'm pretty sure D&D's most recent edition is 3.5. There have been some weird boardgames printed under the title, but they have nothing to do with the system itself.
QUOTE (Moirdryd @ Jan 7 2014, 07:01 AM)

Sadly there seems to have been an era in the last 7 years (ish) where the focus has become about Winning the Game with your character being better than the rest of the group's. Balance became less tied to any Theme and more to pure mechanical equality.
Well, mayhaps straight casters ruling the game might not be to everyone's liking? Actually, ruling multiple games :ь
QUOTE (Moirdryd @ Jan 7 2014, 07:01 AM)

I'm seeing trends towards not just what is systemically solid but to concepts that sound cool or are based on a rather nice piece of artwork.
That depends purely on the player, the system has little to do with it, don't you think? For a glaring example, remember when Drizzt clones ruled supreme?
The system here only determines what can and can't be fit into its framework, and unless we're talking weird D&D-labeled boardgames, most pnp systems work fine for any concept that stays within the genre they're created to cover.
QUOTE (Moirdryd @ Jan 7 2014, 07:01 AM)

Point is SR5 is not a "bad" system (some better editing and more clarity here and there would have been greatly desired, and the internal logic of some of the Wireless stuff is more than questionable). Just as much as SR4 probabley wasn't a "bad" system and nor was 3. You're never going to please everyone and the more history that exists for anything the harder it is to work with. It's not like you cannot still play with the system or editions you enjoy (I still rock out MERP and LUGtrek and D6 StarWars despite owning most of the newer system books, although the new EotE for StarWars is now a favourite too). Sometimes it's nice to ave a new angle on an old favourite and sometimes is good to roll with what you already know.
So far my experience with it has been absolutely abhorrent. There are logical holes the size of a barn door even in the rules that are formulated well, and the contradictions in the rest of them make you either write a dozen-page houserule booklet, or drop the thing altogether.
Sure, you can have fun with any system in good company (or without any system, for that matter, too). It's even in my signature. But as far as the formal qualities that allow us to compare systems go, SR5 so far is bad. If anything, it is following the trend in moving from simulationism
very far down the road to pure gamism - not just particular rules, but whole subsystems in it only make sense from the gamist point of view.