Link here

Huh, no previews this time...curious.

And of course this comes out the week of a con...and where I'm already supposed to be saving up to grab that lovely D&D starter box in a few weeks.

Liking the cover....starting the read.

It looks interesting. No immediate turn-offs in the table of contents or the short preview. Nothing that appears to appeal to the old Grognard in me either however. I'm not sure what is supposed to sell this book to me. More like "You're supposed to buy this because it is the essential magic book" without actually being essential. Will someone read through it and tell me they at least nerfed Mystic Adepts and properly employed a proofreader?

No Spell creation info... though they do bring back a lot of the old spells, including shapechange and turn to goo.

So you can use what they give you, but designing new spells... not so much as far as I can tell, which was sort of odd given this is the magic splat book.

Light, Sound, Smoke, Metal and Sand did not make it across for Elemental effects, which was sort of sad, especially as Light now does a bit more against the tannable Infected.

One person raised a point about the adept power missile mastery... which lets you use everyday items as thrown weapons with an accuracy of 3.... most thrown weapons have a accuracy of physical limit, this is 3. He felt the Power went from cool to worthless in 5 words.

I would probably say though this isn't not too terrible, not great but it is being used to turn normal everyday items into throwing weapons so we shall see.

Spirits now keep track of you through your Conjuring Report..err.. Spirit Index which will be affected by how you treat the spirits and such, resulting in how well spirits respond (if at all) to your summons.

Take this with a bag of salt. But I think Mystic adepts are fine as they are (post 5 kamra change). I think the issue is the metagaming that tends to take place while making a character. Just because he happens to BE a mystic adept does not mean he needs to have improved reflexes at ALL much less at 3. Same with increase reflexes. Combat spells may be incredibly useful for a "shadowrunner". But let's be honest. How many of us REALLY focussed on one thing to be good at and persued it to the exclusion of all other things? Most of us have several low rated skills floating around in our heads. I would prefer to pick things that I may find useful in life and figure out how to use them on a run. (It's very rare that I do not make a character who does NOT carry random shoelaces and nuts (the not the kinds squirrels eat) and whatnot).

Well here's my big question:

Traditions.

It was promised that in the magic book, that they'd add some additional crunch to distinguish them from each other then Drain Attributes and spirit loadouts?

Dumb question:

If my current character has a magic rating of zero and never plans on having one is there anything in this book for other archetypes?

What about the rules for ally spirits?

SYL

@Smash: Not really, you pretty much need a Magic score to really make use of most of this.
There is some information on the various Bug Spirits, Shedim and such so as a GM it can be useful as a source, but is not dead vital for a non-awakened type.
Although of course knowledge is power and knowing what the competition (be it adept or bug) can do is never a bad thing, but again depends on the player.

@Apple Ally Spirits and their creation are in there.

Possession looks interesting and am sure there will be many debates about it now.

2 main points:
a)For a spirit possessing a body to be able to increase their Physical stats, the Force of the spirit has to be higher than the stat and even then the bonus is Force/2(rounded down).
So if you have 4s in physical stats, one would need to have at least a Force 5 spirit to raise the stat and then just by 2. So no more mini boosting with low end level spirits.
If possessing another the mental stats and special abilities are that of the spirit, which means a possessed TM has no access to resonance while possessed.
If channeling through themselves, mana spells take the lower of the Mage or spirit's mental stat to resist and both take the damage.
The Force of the spirit also reduces Wound modifier by the Force of the spirit, so they can take a licking and keep on ticking (until they keel over)

b)Now a mage not of a possession tradition can learn the Channeling Metamagic to possess only himself (while still maintaining general control of body and such) rather than let the spirit materialize or manifest.
So a spirit does not need to have the possession power itself in this instance.
They have to be of a possession tradition if they want to use a spirit capable of possessing other persons or items still of course.
Think this will be really useful for the mystic adepts, but it means even a normal mage in a pinch can 'power up'.

There is more little bits to it but these two are the highlights that many will be talking about and debating concerning possession/channeling I imagine.

Before you panic about possessed mages kicking tail, Exorcism is a new metamagic and works with your Banishing skill to help bring those guys hopped up on spirits back down a notch.

Can you perhaps describe how ally spirits / rules are different to SR4?

SYL

With a cursory glance it look's pretty much a copy and paste of SR4 Street Magic, just remember Mental limits now apply for checks appropriately.

Plus losing an ally will affect your Spirit Index (your credit rating for your conjuring habits) as will mistreatment of said ally or any spirit for that matter.

Sorta, not really. In each Tradition block, there's a list of spells and adept powers that are common to the tradition. Picking them up is normal cost and you don't get any special benefits for picking them up, other than flavor.

-Temperance

Is this a foul-up in the TOC, or are there really just 4 mentor spirits? (And what good is Berserker without a Norse tradition )

Yes, and I'm not sure.

Unless I missed it somewhere, tradition creation seems to be missing as well as the spell design rules.

-Temperance

Anyone notice any big changes from 4th edition? Because sadly the whole thing is reading to me like Street Magic rebranded.

From my quick skim (also posted in RPGNet):

• Less Qualities
• Adds Adept Way Qualities.
• Expansion of Ritual Spellcasting and the Enchanting skills.
• Fewer traditions, with no explicit ways of creating your own.
• Ordeal types are a wash. Meditation was expanded and made more flexible (Nine Paths to Enlightenment). Replaced Suffering with Hermit.
• More metamagics.
• More example groups and more in depth info in some cases. No rules to make your own. (Explicit Ritual for binding a group.)
• More information on the bad spirits/traditions.
• More info on magical phenomena.
• No spell design rules.
• Fewer alternate elements.
• A couple new adept abilities: Elemental Body and Elemental Weapon being the standouts. Oh, and one that turns you into Pig-Pen from Peanuts. (Gives you a pollution aura for your toxic adepts!)

-Temperance

Well, tradition creation isn't really mechanical, there is no math or point buying involved. "You may houserule new traditions by substituting spirit types and the Drain attribute tit-for-tat" doesn't really warrant 1.5 pages

A spell design system on the other hand would not just have been nice for players, the spells already in the book would seemingly also have profited from clear design rules...

True. Still, a sidebar or a paragraph would have been nice.

And thanks for the link to the errata thread. Though, a couple of the examples (namely Ice Storm) may be functioning as intended.

-Temperance

More TOC divination: There is both good ol' Slay [Metatype/Species] and Insecticide [Insect spirit], does the latter do anything special?

Maybe? The Slay series seems limited to a biological species (spirits not listed as a viable target), while Insecticide and Destroy [Free Spirit] appears to be limited spirit killers. However, the spirit slaying spells are specialized Slay spells, per the text. Also, the types (Mana vs Physical) are different. Destroy is limited to a specific free spirit and the spell formula count's as the spirit's formula. Insecticide is best compared to Slaughter, as they are both AE's. Destroy is obviously single target, like Slay.

That said, the specialties have worse drain codes for no reason I can see.

Edit: After some thought, it does make sense.

For the Destroy spell, it acts as the spirit's formula. So giving it -1 drain for being more specific than slay, then adding +2 drain for it being a spirit formula.

For the Insecticide spell, it's effectively *5* spells. Since [Insect Spirit] covers all 5 types of spirits: Soldier, Scout, Caretaker, Nymph, and Worker. So +2 drain from Slaughter to add in multiple creature types. Or -1 for limiting type to insect spirits only, then adding +3 for the multiple creatures.

I can buy that.

-Temperance

I believe Insecticide leaves a pleasant pine scent afterwards.

Slay has always had that target choice, nevertheless Slay Insect Spirits goes back to Prime Runners


Which one is Physical?

Destroy Free Spirit is Mana.
Insecticide is Physical. (Yes, it's a direct spell.)
One less, slay, slaughter are Mana.

-Temperance

Same effect, more drain, and True Forms can just take off...must have been designed by Ares

...just recommended spells/powers?

That's...disappointing. Moreso on what was said about their being not as many traditions as in Street Magic.

I'm honestly not surprised to read here that there are no spell creation rules in Street Grimoire. From the core rule book alone, Clout does Stun damage to a single target while Acid Stream & Flamethrower & Lighting Bolt all do Physical damage to a single target with added elemental effects, and all four of these Indirect spells have exactly the same drain code (Force - 3). When you then include the AOE versions of these spells, the one spell that does Stun damage actually causes more drain. Made me think then that there was no formula for calculating drain on any spells in this edition.

However, as another import from SR5 into SR4a, having the Channeling metamagic technique opening up the option of self possession to the summoner does not sound like a bad idea to me.

Only had a quick scan so far (and skipped straight to the adepts section...), at least a couple of adept powers are duplicated from Stolen Souls...and one at least (Commanding Voice) has different rules! I don't mind the duplication so much as not everyone will buy every sourcebook, but please, can't the rules at least be the same in back to back sourcebooks???

Other than that, no real complaints

Sure there was a formula. Reach hand into ass, pull something out.

Really they seemed to ballpark it around SR4 drains -3 but at force not 1/2 force. But they had a +1-1 they handed out at complete effing random.

As for the book itself. I've only skimmed it so far, but it seems really disorganized. Maybe after a full read it will come together, but when you just flip to a chapter lots of times you are going what the eff. Some cool things, I like most of the expanded ritual magic/alchemy stuff.(with the exception of putting things like summoning great forms into ritual magic so aspected conjurers get screwed), while it has a weird layout the metamagics are relatively cool(not keen on the new channeling being for all mages).

But there is some complete crap as well.

The drain codes on many spells are crazy off,

The PP coss of many powers are really high

the editing sucks,(im catching errors and I'm dyslexic and normally breeze right by them),

as I said on their forum and was quoted here I think accuracy 3 on improvised thrown weapons turns missile mastery into suck. You will miss the average street urchin behind a planter box and with every other thrown weapon being physical limit based it not only seems off thematically but would totally throw off the balance of a throwing expert. Also the power is there for people who want to play the super villain bulls-eye for gods sake and you make him less accurate than a hold out pistol, in his gimmick of being super accurate?

Also they didn't fix one of my mai issues of SR5 which is that if you want to play the classic adept you need to be supe rmuscle dude. Yeah now they added the super sayan energy field option but I want to play a shadowrun adept and kick through people because I'm a bad ass martial artist not because I concentrated for a pass to surround my body in fire.

Oh and still no answer on indirect touch attacks and the process of how they work. Do they get to dodge the magic test part once you successfully touched them, if so is it at -1 for it being a second dodge? With run and gun putting some time into shcok gloves and pure touch attacks it owuld be nice if the magic book had put a paragraph to the magic side of it.

My initial response after reading through it once, it needs help. There are very useful things, there are new things. There are too many indications of GM Metagaming throughout, especially in the spells and lack of a spell design system.

I do like the way the Metatalents are being done, and significant increase in the number of rituals. That said, again, no way to create ones own ritual or custom spell.

Typoed... Oh dear god, I think my favorite is under the Astral Window spell description referring to the astral projection spell in SR5 pg 313 which isn't a spell'of course but an ability. I'm also loving Critter Form v Shapechange in that the spells don't do Paracritters, but every example under the Critter Form spell description is of a Paracritters formula. Oh well, at least the drain codes between those two made sense....

Just noted the back cover text (as seen in the preview):

With more options, deeper rules, deadlier threats, and dozens of way to have fun with magic, Street Grimoire is an essential book for anyone playing Shadowrun, Fifth Edition.


...

Well, at least they spelled "Shadowrun, Fifth Edition" right...

Please, don't do this.

Sorry if I am just blind or something...

can anyone point me to the Keratin Control Adept Power, that is mentioned as a prerequisite for CLAWS on page 157 ?

Thanks

Its not in the book. They forgot to add it, so they'll add it to the next magic book called Shadow Spells.

...great

Thanks.

*face palm*

So you're saying that to get the info that was supposed to be in this seriously overpriced and very poorly edited splatbook, you need to buy yet another seriously overpriced and poorly edited splatbook...

Yay? *twists nipples out of sheer joy*

Seriously, thank you guys so much for jumping on these grenades for me.

Old hat, I know, but we're half a dozen releases in to the SR5 cycle and they still can't manage to edit or proof this shit?

Spelling mistakes galore, references to the SR5 core that go to unrelated pages... I haven't even started processing the rules yet because the overall quality of the writing is so distractingly badly edited.

Sorry, freelancers, your employers keep making you look like scrubs.

Edit : Also, what the hell, why are there blood and toxic traditions in here.

Both well defined in 4th edition Street Magic, why not keep them in this edition?

umm... i'm not exactly the grand high emperor of sarcasm detection, but personally, my sarcasm meter was redlining when Deathstrobe said that.

Prepare to be disappointed.

It sounds like Shadow Spells is going to be the SR5 equivalent of Digital Grimoire, so it'll probably have new magical things that were left out of the core Magic book, like a Norse and Egyptian tradition, and several dozen Mentor Spirits, and a lot of broken spells.

At least it'll probably be really cheap, since it'll probably only be a PDF release.

Then your meter is broken.

I mean, the "forgot" part is sarcastic, but...yeah. That's about it.

You know, I signed up as a proofreader to help fix things from the inside.

I'm not succeeding.

I think that requires wetwork.

I imagine as a freelancer you are limited in what you can ask from those above, but what has the reaction been when you have queried why submitted corrections do not make it into final proofs.

Could the final line of editors be short-handed so might not be getting through all the correction submissions or is submissions being routed to the wrong section?

For ourselves we teach courses and have an online booking system using paypal.

When the bookings come through we send out the joining instructions back through the email address provided by Paypal or in the comment box.

I still get contacted by a number of students who have booked a course but say they didn't receive instructions. When we look into it, we find they are now using a different email address and never bothered to update their paypal to reflect this nor did they add it in the comment box.

Now I am not saying your superiors have changed their email entirely, but could the chain of submission be dead ending somewhere along the way?

It could be as simple as person A used to handle it, but is gone now and B is supposed to be taking care of this and some submissions are still going to A's inbox who may not even be there anymore and B does not have access nor would be looking there as they should be getting things in their own inbox.

Proofreading is done via Google Docs. We all add our comments, which the editors in turn comment on, so there's no doubt that they've seen it. And since it's online, it pretty much stays there forever. Our file access is limited, but I can still see the locked file for the SR5 proofs (and, in our defense, many of the corrections we made never made it to the final copy). I don't know why it happened, and under a NDA I can't give examples. But I can confirm that it did.

Thanks for that and we understand how you can not discuss specifics.

It's a starting point anyway. So you know that the information is getting to the people needing to see it.

We realize just because a correction is submitted it is not automatically included as ultimately the editing level still has to decide whether the suggested correction is valid or not.

Somewhere though there seems to be a disconnect on the path to the final cut, how to find and address it is going to be the fun part.

Like I said earlier, I appreciate that you try, I just don't think any amount of effort on you or the rest of the freelancers' part can overcome the apathy and outright hostility to making a good product that's occurring at Catalyst right now.


I'm starting to assume they've already been told they're losing the rights to SR shortly.


Edit :

Seriously, from the official forums :

"Living Focus and Keratin Control are both slated for release in an e-book called Shadow Spells, which I assume is going to be similar to the Digital Grimoire from 4th edition. One of the developers has stated what his intentions are with the powers, but as they are unpublished and unconfirmed, it would be unwise to spell them out currently."

They're publishing stuff with pre-requisite abilities that don't exist yet. This is beyond just 'bad editor' levels of failure and into a publishing company that doesn't care, and just wants to get as many things to print before they get their IP pulled.

Why does anyone expect anything better? This is still the company who responded to a systemic problem with meeting product delivery dates by stopping committing to product delivery dates rather than addressing the systemic problem.

Well run companies fire people for suggesting ideas like that. CGL embraced the idea, and has proudly trumpeted it to anyone who asks about why they don't commit to product delivery deadlines.

wow, that's pretty depressing.

i had assumed that something that stupid had to be a joke. well, as the saying goes: truth is stranger than fiction, because fiction has to make sense.

this is a whole new low for them to sink to.