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Mystweaver
So, being a nasty piece of work that I am, how could I go about turning one of my PC's into a vampire? Would a single bite do the trick (I think not).

If someone could direct me to where I might find the rules that would be awesome (SR4).

Thank you
sk8bcn
wanna throw the character out of the game?
bannockburn
There's a whole big rules thingy in Runner's Companion about how this would work. Starts on p. 82.
I recommend consulting with the player in question, or bad blood (pun intended) may arise from this.
Sendaz
QUOTE (bannockburn @ Sep 26 2014, 07:22 AM) *
.
I recommend consulting with the player in question, or bad blood (pun intended) may arise from this.

Indeed, as party harmony is at stake. nyahnyah.gif
nezumi
Seduction is a great tool, don't forget. Alternatively, most runners don't watch their food and drink as closely as they should.
Mystweaver
QUOTE (sk8bcn @ Sep 26 2014, 01:21 PM) *
wanna throw the character out of the game?


Hell no, just like to think of complications... Free Spirit and Shapeshifter already in the group. Should keep things even more interesting with more eek factor smile.gif

I admit this is one hell of a complication but still - should be fun.
Neraph
QUOTE (sk8bcn @ Sep 26 2014, 06:21 AM) *
wanna throw the character out of the game?

I don't get the Infected hate. Infected are amazing.
Mystweaver
QUOTE (Neraph @ Sep 26 2014, 02:48 PM) *
I don't get the Infected hate. Infected are amazing.


I agree... even being a ghoul is quite an interesting character...

Anyway... just read up those rules and I'm wondering how infecting an adept would work?

It mentions that after they are transformed their Essence and Magic are reduced to 1. Does feeding increase both or just Essence (so they would have to re-buy Magic points?).

Likewise, how would being transformed into a vampire effect a street sam? Would the regeneration power destroy all implants? If they had an essence of less than 1, I presume it would be increased to 1?
bannockburn
YMMV.

Edit: Mystweaver, I'll have to read up on that when I'm home from work. Per default, you'd lose all the magic points as an adept, yes, and would probably have to re-buy. It's not a lot of fun becoming infected.
More on that later, unless someone else has an answer now.
Mystweaver
QUOTE (bannockburn @ Sep 26 2014, 02:58 PM) *
YMMV.

Edit: Mystweaver, I'll have to read up on that when I'm home from work. Per default, you'd lose all the magic points as an adept, yes, and would probably have to re-buy. It's not a lot of fun becoming infected.
More on that later, unless someone else has an answer now.


Funky chicken...

Pretty sure my assumptions are correct...

I also presume that the attribute modiers that come with becoming infected are merely adjustments to maxiums and not instant gains?
i.e. Becoming a vampire would not instantly give you +2 Agility & Reaction but allow you to go up to 8 as a maximum.
Neraph
Your Magic goes down to a 1. You'll need to feed up to get your Magic rating back, as your new Magic Maximum is equal to your Current Essence. This allows "Special Infected" (what I use to refer to Infected with Essence Drain) to go higher than the normal maximum of 6 for Magic rating.

Now that you have Essence Drain, though, you can use it to boost your Magic rating up once every 12 hours. Feed on Essence up to your new cap of 12, spend it all on Essence Drain to boost your Magic attribute 6 points for 12 hours, and at the end of that time you have 6 Essence left. Rinse, lather, repeat for temporary power, recouping some of those Power Points lost to the infection in the first place.

Additionally, since you're gaining Magic/PP and losing them frequently, this allows Adepts to custom tailor the PP they're using, essentially making them extreme jacks of all trades.

QUOTE (Mystweaver @ Sep 26 2014, 08:05 AM) *
I also presume that the attribute modiers that come with becoming infected are merely adjustments to maxiums and not instant gains?
i.e. Becoming a vampire would not instantly give you +2 Agility & Reaction but allow you to go up to 8 as a maximum.

Incorrect. Those immediately affect your current attributes and your maximums, allowing you to additionally recalculate your augmented maximums as well (EX: human vampire's new Reaction is +3 from normal, natural maximum is now 8, augmented maximum is 12).
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Neraph @ Sep 26 2014, 07:48 AM) *
I don't get the Infected hate. Infected are amazing.


Infected are an amazingly bad idea as PC's, yes...
bannockburn
All matters of personal taste aside, here are a few answers:

QUOTE (Mystweaver @ Sep 26 2014, 03:58 PM) *
It mentions that after they are transformed their Essence and Magic are reduced to 1.

Technically, their Essence is raised to 1, since they first need to be fully emptied to 0, before the Infection power can be used. Afterwards, the character awakens with 1 Essence, and more importantly, 1 Magic, even if they weren't magical before. This does not net them any magic user qualities, though.

QUOTE
Does feeding increase both or just Essence (so they would have to re-buy Magic points?).

Feeding does not raise Magic on its own. Refer to what Neraph said for how that works exactly.

QUOTE
Likewise, how would being transformed into a vampire effect a street sam? Would the regeneration power destroy all implants? If they had an essence of less than 1, I presume it would be increased to 1?

First of all, heavily augmented characters only transform quicker since the vamp in question needs less time to suck them dry.
For the question about their augmentations, refer to p. 77, Runner's Companion, "The Infected and Augmentation". In short: only Deltaware can be installed after the change, and no Genetech is available. I'd interpret it in such a way that every piece of 'ware they have during their change will be violently expelled from their bodies. They then start with the standard attribute bonuses for their type of infection instead, and with 1 Essence, as well as a really good hankering for a hemoglobin cocktail.
Mystweaver
QUOTE (Neraph @ Sep 26 2014, 04:58 PM) *
Your Magic goes down to a 1. You'll need to feed up to get your Magic rating back, as your new Magic Maximum is equal to your Current Essence. This allows "Special Infected" (what I use to refer to Infected with Essence Drain) to go higher than the normal maximum of 6 for Magic rating.

Now that you have Essence Drain, though, you can use it to boost your Magic rating up once every 12 hours. Feed on Essence up to your new cap of 12, spend it all on Essence Drain to boost your Magic attribute 6 points for 12 hours, and at the end of that time you have 6 Essence left. Rinse, lather, repeat for temporary power, recouping some of those Power Points lost to the infection in the first place.

Additionally, since you're gaining Magic/PP and losing them frequently, this allows Adepts to custom tailor the PP they're using, essentially making them extreme jacks of all trades.


Incorrect. Those immediately affect your current attributes and your maximums, allowing you to additionally recalculate your augmented maximums as well (EX: human vampire's new Reaction is +3 from normal, natural maximum is now 8, augmented maximum is 12).


That seems awesome! I see this is all under essence drain in sr4a. Thanks for pointing out this.
binarywraith
QUOTE (Neraph @ Sep 26 2014, 08:48 AM) *
I don't get the Infected hate. Infected are amazing.


Trusting the infected is a surefire way to end up getting eaten. Not to mention that HMHVV has what, a low single digits 'survival' rate if you count ghouls and vampires as survivors?
Sephiroth
QUOTE (binarywraith @ Sep 26 2014, 01:10 PM) *
Trusting the infected is a surefire way to end up getting eaten. Not to mention that HMHVV has what, a low single digits 'survival' rate if you count ghouls and vampires as survivors?

Oh don't be silly. Trusting any Infected on your team that isn't a feral ghoul is a perfectly legitimate way to not get eaten. I mean, at least one of the other PC's in the PbP game I'm in 'trust' my nosferatu mage, and said PC hasn't gotten eaten so far.

Sapient Infected PC's aren't mindless mongrels with no self control. Everyone, vampire or not, knows that trying to attack your own team is a quick path to suicide.
Smilin_Jack
QUOTE (Neraph @ Sep 26 2014, 07:48 AM) *
I don't get the Infected hate. Infected are amazing.


Heh, anything that lives by eating members of same species I am (even if I hate them) - gets killed, lit on fire, then has its ashes pissed on ASAP.

Cause, you know, doing anything else gives me flashbacks of the horrid ear gouging, brain melting, makes me want to kill a fucker wailing refrain of "BUT HE HAS A SOUL NOW!" from BtVS.

binarywraith
QUOTE (Sephiroth @ Sep 26 2014, 02:13 PM) *
Oh don't be silly. Trusting any Infected on your team that isn't a feral ghoul is a perfectly legitimate way to not get eaten. I mean, at least one of the other PC's in the PbP game I'm in 'trust' my nosferatu mage, and said PC hasn't gotten eaten so far.

Sapient Infected PC's aren't mindless mongrels with no self control. Everyone, vampire or not, knows that trying to attack your own team is a quick path to suicide.


No dice. Anything that considers fellow runners as emergency rations gets a polite send off in a high caliber lobotomy.

You want an example, go dig up the novels and read up about wendigoes. Sam Verner could tell you a lot...
binarywraith
Edit : Doublepost.
Sephiroth
QUOTE (binarywraith @ Sep 26 2014, 02:50 PM) *
No dice. Anything that considers fellow runners as emergency rations gets a polite send off in a high caliber lobotomy.

You want an example, go dig up the novels and read up about wendigoes. Sam Verner could tell you a lot...

I've read about wendigos. You have a point about the emergency rations thing. However, I maintain that being turned into food by an Infected teammate would not happen under normal circumstances (i.e. not ones involving being stranded alone with him/her for a long period of time). A smart Infected (I don't count wendigos, because they're already seven kinds of psychologically screwed up) should be aware that shadowrunners are extremely bad choices of prey. Shadowrunners are terrorists, assassins, and professional kidnappers (among other things) who routinely tango with law enforcement, organized crime, and magical threats. Everyone in the SR underworld knows this. So what Infected with any desire for self-preservation would ever try to turn another shadowrunner into a hamburger/juicebox? The answer, I think, is: not any of the Infected who are smart enough to survive as shadowrunners themselves. There are far easier prey for Infected teammates to eat than your hyperdeadly street sam/crazy mage/well-armed rigger/all-knowing hacker/<insert other character archetype here>.
Kyrel
Mystweaver. You should read up on the Infected in Running Wild too. There's a decent section on them in that book. Also, there is a slight but important revision rgd. the rules description of how the Infection power works. Specifically a character with a Magic rating higher than 1, keep their own rating after the initial change. If they have a Magic Rating of 0, it's increased to 1. This screws a Magic reliant character over rather a lot less, if they become Infected.
binarywraith
QUOTE (Sephiroth @ Sep 26 2014, 04:54 PM) *
I've read about wendigos. You have a point about the emergency rations thing. However, I maintain that being turned into food by an Infected teammate would not happen under normal circumstances (i.e. not ones involving being stranded alone with him/her for a long period of time). A smart Infected (I don't count wendigos, because they're already seven kinds of psychologically screwed up) should be aware that shadowrunners are extremely bad choices of prey. Shadowrunners are terrorists, assassins, and professional kidnappers (among other things) who routinely tango with law enforcement, organized crime, and magical threats. Everyone in the SR underworld knows this. So what Infected with any desire for self-preservation would ever try to turn another shadowrunner into a hamburger/juicebox? The answer, I think, is: not any of the Infected who are smart enough to survive as shadowrunners themselves. There are far easier prey for Infected teammates to eat than your hyperdeadly street sam/crazy mage/well-armed rigger/all-knowing hacker/<insert other character archetype here>.


I think you are underestimating just how much of a motivating force all-encompassing hunger is. Especially when you can't just go order a cheeseburger somewhere. Hell, how's your PC infected supposed to survive if you get stuck on a stakeout or deep cover op longer than a couple days? Much as I hate to quote it, Vampire:The Masquerade covered most of these problems in detail, and their walking corpses don't even need to kill anyone to feed.
Sephiroth
QUOTE (binarywraith @ Sep 26 2014, 05:21 PM) *
I think you are underestimating just how much of a motivating force all-encompassing hunger is. Especially when you can't just go order a cheeseburger somewhere. Hell, how's your PC infected supposed to survive if you get stuck on a stakeout or deep cover op longer than a couple days? Much as I hate to quote it, Vampire:The Masquerade covered most of these problems in detail, and their walking corpses don't even need to kill anyone to feed.

In the case of a long stakeout or deep cover op, it seems like said PC Infected would need to make suggestions to his/her team to try a different tactic to accomplish the goal, or at least put him/her in a different role than surveillance etc. They can cover their tracks by passing it off as needing regular treatments for a digestive disorder or similar if they want to keep their nature a secret from their teammates, but ultimately that kind of mission would be no more feasible for the Infected than a similarly long-term stakeout in the desert would be for a normal metahuman. A good runner team will take that into account, regardless of whether they know (or care) about the specific reasons why the PC can't do said long stakeout/undercover op.

As for your first point, to me it is not that I think hunger is a minor or trifling motivator - it is very powerful, and I understand that. But by default, you play in an enormous metroplex where there are easy pickings for Infected, gang members, murderers, and so on practically everywhere. And if he/she wants to be sure not to draw any heat from rent-a-cops, literally all they have to do is take public transportation down to the Puyallup or Redmond Barrens and hunt there. So it seems to me that hunger and starvation shouldn't be a big problem, at least for a skilled shadowrunner Infected.
binarywraith
QUOTE (Sephiroth @ Sep 26 2014, 05:50 PM) *
In the case of a long stakeout or deep cover op, it seems like said PC Infected would need to make suggestions to his/her team to try a different tactic to accomplish the goal, or at least put him/her in a different role than surveillance etc. They can cover their tracks by passing it off as needing regular treatments for a digestive disorder or similar if they want to keep their nature a secret from their teammates, but ultimately that kind of mission would be no more feasible for the Infected than a similarly long-term stakeout in the desert would be for a normal metahuman. A good runner team will take that into account, regardless of whether they know (or care) about the specific reasons why the PC can't do said long stakeout/undercover op.


So, effectively useless for one of the major parts of many runs, got it.

QUOTE (Sephiroth @ Sep 26 2014, 05:50 PM) *
As for your first point, to me it is not that I think hunger is a minor or trifling motivator - it is very powerful, and I understand that. But by default, you play in an enormous metroplex where there are easy pickings for Infected, gang members, murderers, and so on practically everywhere. And if he/she wants to be sure not to draw any heat from rent-a-cops, literally all they have to do is take public transportation down to the Puyallup or Redmond Barrens and hunt there. So it seems to me that hunger and starvation shouldn't be a big problem, at least for a skilled shadowrunner Infected.


Sure, and your team is going to be okay with you going out to commit extracurricular murders among the people they have to blend in with and do business with to maintain the very off-the-books lifestyle that makes them useful as shadowrunners. That seems like a -great- plan that nobody would have any problems with.
Sephiroth
QUOTE (binarywraith @ Sep 26 2014, 08:33 PM) *
So, effectively useless for one of the major parts of many runs, got it.

That is not what I said. I personally have also never seen any shadowrun adventure that required a team to stay together in general with no breaks for 96 hours or longer (including sleeping together), let alone do stakeout together for that long.

QUOTE
Sure, and your team is going to be okay with you going out to commit extracurricular murders among the people they have to blend in with and do business with to maintain the very off-the-books lifestyle that makes them useful as shadowrunners. That seems like a -great- plan that nobody would have any problems with.

Again, I feel you are putting words in my mouth. First of all, what PC is ever entirely open and transparent with their teammates? Literally all of them are experienced criminals with plenty of things to be secretive about. That's partially where the black trenchcoat style of play comes from in the first place. Seems to me that shadowrunners are a very "stay out of my business and I'll stay out of yours" group of people. Secondly, who said anything about doing it among the people your team mingles and does business with? As I said, Seattle is huge, and there are plenty of joygirls, joyboys, isolated suicidal wageslaves, et cetera in the city for Infected to quietly feed on.
binarywraith
As soon as you're doing something that's going to draw negative attention, it is in fact the team's business, because your actions can lead back to them. If at any point you wonder why teams don't want infected, beyond the obvious threat they pose to everyone around them, consider how much they want to be tied to multiple cannibalistic murders if you get caught.
ShadowDragon8685
Or, you know, your infected teamie could just buy from Tamanous, if they're a ghoul.
Shaidar
There is also no requirement in the Essence Drain power to kill your donor/target.

Maybe try, Seduce, suck, laes, leave.
Wounded Ronin
A lot of these hypothetical issues about eating your teammates or whatever go away if the whole team is ghouls or vampires.

Considering how often SRs battle ghouls we would expect a certain statistical windfall of diseased SRs. Likewise, if corporate security kills ghouls, the same thing would happen to a number of corporate security personnel.

So it wouldn't be beyond belief that a group of SRs or ex corp security guys who all got the disease decide to form a gang/team where they all look out for one another and try to have some income.

EDIT: If you wanted to really push the social-issues-of-the-80s thing you could also try and make parallels with the stigmatization and fear that was faced by people with AIDS or HIV infection faced in the 80s. That would simultaneously be a pretty realistic, rich subtext to draw on with lots of historical anecdotes the GM could draw on, while also being an homage to one of the overriding public concerns of the 80s.



So, setting that aside, would team members object to one runner being an organlegger on the side? Because that would be similar, I would think.
ShadowDragon8685
QUOTE (Shaidar @ Sep 26 2014, 11:38 PM) *
There is also no requirement in the Essence Drain power to kill your donor/target.

Maybe try, Seduce, suck, laes, leave.


That might work for a vampire. Technically speaking, it would work for a ghoul, too, but in practice most people will Notice a chunk of their thigh or arm going missing.

Although, that does give me a thought...

The reason clonal flesh is insufficient for Ghoul use is because it isn't impregnated, for want of a better word (Oh, wait, "Suffused" - I found a better word) with Essence. Even if you force-grow a whole wimp, it won't work to satisfy Ghoul dietary requirements.

So...

Suppose Jack loses his arm - we'll say a ghoul cuts it off to take home and eat. Let's say Jack does not contract HMHVV (the ghoul is careful,) and he survives thanks to prompt medical attention. A replacement arm is cloned for him.

How long after attachment does the replacement arm have to be a part of Jack for it to be sufficiently suffused (used it!) with his Essence for it to satisfy a Ghoul's dietary requirements?
Wounded Ronin
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685 @ Sep 27 2014, 12:10 AM) *
That might work for a vampire. Technically speaking, it would work for a ghoul, too, but in practice most people will Notice a chunk of their thigh or arm going missing.

Although, that does give me a thought...

The reason clonal flesh is insufficient for Ghoul use is because it isn't impregnated, for want of a better word (Oh, wait, "Suffused" - I found a better word) with Essence. Even if you force-grow a whole wimp, it won't work to satisfy Ghoul dietary requirements.

So...

Suppose Jack loses his arm - we'll say a ghoul cuts it off to take home and eat. Let's say Jack does not contract HMHVV (the ghoul is careful,) and he survives thanks to prompt medical attention. A replacement arm is cloned for him.

How long after attachment does the replacement arm have to be a part of Jack for it to be sufficiently suffused (used it!) with his Essence for it to satisfy a Ghoul's dietary requirements?


How long does it take to set up a rating 6 medicine lodge?
Neraph
QUOTE (Smilin_Jack @ Sep 26 2014, 02:34 PM) *
Heh, anything that lives by eating members of same species I am (even if I hate them) - gets killed, lit on fire, then has its ashes pissed on ASAP.

Cause, you know, doing anything else gives me flashbacks of the horrid ear gouging, brain melting, makes me want to kill a fucker wailing refrain of "BUT HE HAS A SOUL NOW!" from BtVS.

My nosferatu only gains his essence from having sex parties with many, many high-end escorts. And vengefully ripping the souls away from those who wrong him.

I mean, we gotta have standards, right?

Remember: Essence Drain just needs a powerful emotion to work (playing Eye of the Tiger during a wrestling match would suffice), and the Special Infected has the ability to take as much - or as little - as they want. Waste not...

EDIT: I mean, even if you drain some from a team mate in an emergency situation, once you get back to an area of relative safety you can always pay them back with Renfield anyways. Technically, you can consume your own Renfield to offset Essence Loss, although you couldn't use the boosting effect of Essence Drain due to that since you didn't actually drain Essence.
Smilin_Jack
QUOTE (Neraph @ Sep 27 2014, 12:48 AM) *
My nosferatu only gains his essence from having sex parties with many, many high-end escorts. And vengefully ripping the souls away from those who wrong him.

I mean, we gotta have standards, right?

Remember: Essence Drain just needs a powerful emotion to work (playing Eye of the Tiger during a wrestling match would suffice), and the Special Infected has the ability to take as much - or as little - as they want. Waste not...

EDIT: I mean, even if you drain some from a team mate in an emergency situation, once you get back to an area of relative safety you can always pay them back with Renfield anyways. Technically, you can consume your own Renfield to offset Essence Loss, although you couldn't use the boosting effect of Essence Drain due to that since you didn't actually drain Essence.


Well isn't your nosferatu an extra special snowflake then.

Tell you what - I like you - your vampire can be first against the wall when the revolution comes. nyahnyah.gif



Wounded Ronin
So does essence drained by a vampire eventually grow back?
Smilin_Jack
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin @ Sep 27 2014, 02:02 AM) *
So does essence drained by a vampire eventually grow back?


QUOTE (SR4A)
Essence Drain
Type: P Action: Complex Range: Touch Duration: Permanent


Not so far as I can tell.
Cain
QUOTE (Neraph @ Sep 26 2014, 06:48 AM) *
I don't get the Infected hate. Infected are amazing.

I've had ghoul PC's in my game before. That's not a problem, although party harmony gets interesting.

The problem is when a player tried to deliberately get his character infected, so he can get the stat bonuses. It doesn't work so well for heavily augmented ones, but adepts and mages can get very scary.

If you create a ghoul character, this isn't a big deal, since they paid for the attribute raises. But a PC who didn't pay. this is effectively free points for them. I've only had one player try that, but that was enough for me. PC's who get HMHVV in my games are likely to die and not come back.
Smilin_Jack
My problem with infected, and the other racial variants from Runner's Companion....

is that they're extra special snowflakes in a special snowflake world.

I'm tired of all the Drizzt, Angelus, Spike, Edward, Humpty Dumpty, Beltuguese, and Mushroom Tattoo clones polluting the meme-pool with their extra special snowflake-ims - so they can just die.

Wanna play your extra special snowflake* - go ahead, don't be surprised when crotchety old bartender removes your character's face via shotgun blast though.


*Now with extra special sparkles!

-Jack

It's not just you - I hate everyone equally.
Stingray
..personally, i would forget vampire..

..what about Dormant Metagenetics-quality? (making PC possible Changeling..)
.. some1 cast a Heal- spell at PC, He/She start sprouting Horns and Fangs.. devil.gif
binarywraith
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685 @ Sep 27 2014, 12:10 AM) *
That might work for a vampire. Technically speaking, it would work for a ghoul, too, but in practice most people will Notice a chunk of their thigh or arm going missing.

Although, that does give me a thought...

The reason clonal flesh is insufficient for Ghoul use is because it isn't impregnated, for want of a better word (Oh, wait, "Suffused" - I found a better word) with Essence. Even if you force-grow a whole wimp, it won't work to satisfy Ghoul dietary requirements.

So...

Suppose Jack loses his arm - we'll say a ghoul cuts it off to take home and eat. Let's say Jack does not contract HMHVV (the ghoul is careful,) and he survives thanks to prompt medical attention. A replacement arm is cloned for him.

How long after attachment does the replacement arm have to be a part of Jack for it to be sufficiently suffused (used it!) with his Essence for it to satisfy a Ghoul's dietary requirements?


Depends on your edition. I'd say the conservative answer should be the healing chart times to get over the wound. In SR3 terms? He may never, because usually a limb loss like that comes with a Deadly wound, and Essence loss is possible.
Mystweaver
QUOTE (binarywraith @ Sep 27 2014, 03:48 PM) *
Depends on your edition. I'd say the conservative answer should be the healing chart times to get over the wound. In SR3 terms? He may never, because usually a limb loss like that comes with a Deadly wound, and Essence loss is possible.


How quickly does an infected lose a point of essence?
ShadowDragon8685
QUOTE (binarywraith @ Sep 27 2014, 10:48 AM) *
Depends on your edition. I'd say the conservative answer should be the healing chart times to get over the wound. In SR3 terms? He may never, because usually a limb loss like that comes with a Deadly wound, and Essence loss is possible.


What if the limb was surgically removed?
Neraph
QUOTE (Smilin_Jack @ Sep 27 2014, 02:55 AM) *
My problem with infected, and the other racial variants from Runner's Companion....

is that they're extra special snowflakes in a special snowflake world.

I'm tired of all the Drizzt, Angelus, Spike, Edward, Humpty Dumpty, Beltuguese, and Mushroom Tattoo clones polluting the meme-pool with their extra special snowflake-ims - so they can just die.

Wanna play your extra special snowflake* - go ahead, don't be surprised when crotchety old bartender removes your character's face via shotgun blast though.


*Now with extra special sparkles!

-Jack

It's not just you - I hate everyone equally.

I'm actually getting a little tired of your patronizing attitude. You really don't know what kind of a monster I actually play. He just is intelligent enough to understand that you don't proverbially shat where you eat. If you can figure out how to stay really, really well fed and not create any bodies then not only are you much better off but then you have the added benefit of having no one after you. And if someone does come after you you can eat them and dispose of them in the Barrens, with all the rest of the trash.
Smilin_Jack
QUOTE (Neraph @ Sep 27 2014, 05:43 PM) *
I'm actually getting a little tired of your patronizing attitude. You really don't know what kind of a monster I actually play. He just is intelligent enough to understand that you don't proverbially shat where you eat. If you can figure out how to stay really, really well fed and not create any bodies then not only are you much better off but then you have the added benefit of having no one after you. And if someone does come after you you can eat them and dispose of them in the Barrens, with all the rest of the trash.


Great - groovy - that works for you and your games, rock on!

For me and the group that I play with - that's exactly the type of extra special fucking snowflake characters we hate. "Oh but MY ghoul/vampire/drow/half-dragon/drake/AI is _different_!!!!!"

Neraph
No. Mine is a monster. He's just smart enough to know if he's stupid (IE: kills people while draining Essence) then he attracts unwanted attention.

That's like saying that a rigger who puts ruthenium polymers on his drones is a "stuper special snowflake!!!one!11!ohmygosh" because he's less likely to die for being smart.

You look like an ass throwing around insults comparing individuals to unique molecular structures of water.
Smilin_Jack
QUOTE (Neraph @ Sep 27 2014, 05:16 PM) *
No. Mine is a monster. He's just smart enough to know if he's stupid (IE: kills people while draining Essence) then he attracts unwanted attention.

That's like saying that a rigger who puts ruthenium polymers on his drones is a "stuper special snowflake!!!one!11!ohmygosh" because he's less likely to die for being smart.

You look like an ass throwing around insults comparing individuals to unique molecular structures of water.


And you sound like a little fucker with entitlement issues.

We done tossing insults back and forth?

-------

You like that type of character - that's great. I'm not telling you not to, or that it's BADWRONGFUN to do so.

But telling me like I sound like an ass for disliking that type of character in the games I run and/or play - yeah that gets a big side of fuck you.

My group has never used any of the optional racial choices or the metahuman variants in the SR2/SR3's Shadowrun Companion or SR4's Runner's Companion because to us they all smack of Special Snowflake Syndrome when compared to the rest of the SRverse.

Don't like my opinion, then put me of fucking ignore.
Neraph
Advice taken.

Also, note that it's possible to disagree withe people without trying to use emasculating language because of a difference of opinion. That's real adult of you.
rythymhack
I dislike infected as player characters also. Largely because it can take the response from "Crap! Ghouls!" to "Let's find some Ghouls to bite us!". The latter is not the flavor I think was intended when they were introduced to the setting.
binarywraith
It shouldn't be even now. Depending on your source, of course. Running Wild goes on about how virulently contagious Krieger-strain HMHVV is and how rare ghouls with sentience are... but the rules don't actually reflect any of that.
Wounded Ronin
QUOTE (binarywraith @ Sep 27 2014, 08:41 PM) *
It shouldn't be even now. Depending on your source, of course. Running Wild goes on about how virulently contagious Krieger-strain HMHVV is and how rare ghouls with sentience are... but the rules don't actually reflect any of that.


Well one thing that RPGs usually don't have is realistic transmission rates. If you treated HMHVV like hep C and applied official medical statistics to transmission as though it were hep C, that would be pretty contagious in real world terms but at the same time it would be "hard" for player characters to get infected in the context of a campaign.
binarywraith
The other issue being that HMHVV-II has a kill rate roughly equivalent to Ebola. nyahnyah.gif
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