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nylanfs
Lock #1 (for secure locations inside less secure facilities)

http://gizmodo.com/this-bizarre-high-secur...dium=socialflow

Lock #2 (for super secure facilities)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ey2SFHbZV8
Stahlseele
The Master Key will open it anyway.
nylanfs
Well yes, but I am going to REALLY enjoy the looks on their faces the frst time they have to do with with a "no traces" requirement to the run.
Stahlseele
Have the mage cast animate on it.
"Yo, lock, open for me please"
*Sure thing brotha, i'm open for all sorts of shenanigans!*

And because the animate spell is basically never taken because it's mostly useless:

Have a spirit inhabit the lock and do it that way
"Phenomical cosmic powers!"
*itty bitty tiny living space*
nezumi
The first lock doesn't seem so impressive. In fact, by virtue of having the cylinders exposed like that, it makes it a little easier. The time cost is just because of how many pins there are to pick. It's effectively a key with 23 notches (except ... not ... because 17 of those don't need to be picked at all). In actual use, I imagine it'll be even easier. People try to put the key in, they'll rarely hit it dead on the first try. That means you can expect surface scratches and wear around valid key holes, and not around the rest.

It would defy bump keys/lockpick guns/etc. so that's a plus when defending against people with all the tools and none of the skills.

(You would need some sort of tool to apply torque though. Not sure the best way to do that.)

The second one ... I've seen pictures of that before. Like the guy said, standard picks won't work very well. I don't have a quick answer on how to do that, although I imagine someone in Shadowrun can figure out something. On the flip side, the wavey shape means when the cylinder rotates, the shear line is effectively unequal. This means if you CAN reach the pins, it should be much easier to pick than even standard locks. Plus, no sidebars, so there's that.

Both of them just rely on no one having the right tools on hand for the job, which is a fun challenge for the job. But should the tools be found, the picking itself I don't expect to be so intense.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Nov 11 2014, 10:03 AM) *
Have the mage cast animate on it.
"Yo, lock, open for me please"
*Sure thing brotha, i'm open for all sorts of shenanigans!*

And because the animate spell is basically never taken because it's mostly useless:

Have a spirit inhabit the lock and do it that way
"Phenomical cosmic powers!"
*itty bitty tiny living space*


My Occult Investigator had it. Very Useful Spell...
binarywraith
I'd be more worried about Troll With Sledgehammer types of brute force lockpicking.

Any sufficiently complicated lock simply means that people will come in through another method. Venitlation systems. Blowing a hole in the wall. Taking a concrete saw to the door around the lock... or the wall five feet to the left of the door.

Locks don't keep out the determined criminal, they just keep honest people honest.
Sengir
QUOTE (nezumi @ Nov 12 2014, 03:53 PM) *
(You would need some sort of tool to apply torque though. Not sure the best way to do that.)

Actually usable nanotech: Shear-resistant superglue which allows you to just glue a handle to the center
Stahlseele
@binarywraith
The Master Key as mentioned above.
But the caveat was no traces left, so violence, the ultimate tool, is straight out sadly <.<
KarmaInferno
Drill out lock, replace with identical lock.

Requires some planning ahead, of course. If you switch the security guards keys as well nobody may even notice the swap.


-k
Jaid
if you can replace the lock with an identical one, wouldn't that make it a lot easier to just make a copy of the key? i mean, how are you going to copy the lock that wouldn't let you just make a key... and once you have a key, it's a lot easier to just use the key than to replace the lock...
binarywraith
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Nov 13 2014, 06:12 AM) *
@binarywraith
The Master Key as mentioned above.
But the caveat was no traces left, so violence, the ultimate tool, is straight out sadly <.<


Oh, violence is still useful, you just need to know where to apply it. To someone who has access already, for example, or to their family.

There's always leverage, sometimes you just have to be creative about how you apply it.
Umidori
Magic is the counter to this sort of thing, particularly the mind control variety.

That said, good old fashioned blackmail, bribery, and other leverage still works too. The weakest portion of any security system is always the human element.

~Umi
nylanfs
Yes, but I plan on leaving plenty of clues when I throw it at them that there's something finicky about the security setup at x location. Assuming they do due diligence during the legwork.
Neraph
QUOTE (binarywraith @ Nov 12 2014, 08:45 PM) *
I'd be more worried about Troll With Sledgehammer types of brute force lockpicking.

Any sufficiently complicated lock simply means that people will come in through another method. Venitlation systems. Blowing a hole in the wall. Taking a concrete saw to the door around the lock... or the wall five feet to the left of the door.

Locks don't keep out the determined criminal, they just keep honest people honest.

Via a 3.5 D&D game: "... Are the walls Arcane Locked?"

No, they weren't.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Neraph @ Nov 14 2014, 10:38 AM) *
Via a 3.5 D&D game: "... Are the walls Arcane Locked?"

No, they weren't.


Indeed... Good Times. Trolls can be awesome. smile.gif
Modular Man
QUOTE (Michael Westen)
Every decent punk has a bulletproof door. But people forget walls are just plaster.

biggrin.gif
Also, if you do it just right and patch the hole back up, people may not notice. See, who'd be crazy enough to come through the walls silently? Most guards won't even look.

Those locks look like a piece of work. Exspect some creative and/or destructive plans from the players wink.gif
Stahlseele
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Nov 14 2014, 06:45 PM) *
Indeed... Good Times. Trolls can be awesome. smile.gif

Leaving no traces of it having been stolen is pretty damn easy . .
"Let's see, i need 100 Kilo of C8 . . and a remote controlled vehicle to make it go boom in there . ."
Smash
I'm clearly missing something here. Why is the application of the 'locksmith' skill not going to work in these cases? Does the group not have it?
War Wrecker
The way the locks are designed makes them virtually impossible (or at least in the case of the second one) to pick with conventional lock picking techniques.

The way you normally pick a lock is by using a bunch of bits of metal to press the lock mechanisms out of the way like the teeth of a key, and then you have another piece of metal to twist the lock to open the door, like the base of the key.

The first lock isn't opened by a key with "teeth", instead being opening by a bunch of pegs, and has several "fake" holes making lock picking it not quite impossible, just infinitesimally more time consuming (as the number of "holes" needed cannot be derived, so theoretically all combinations need to be tried) than picking a regular lock, as well as needing completely different tools to pick.

The second lock is opened by a key with teeth, but the shape of the lock is very exact, and every piece of lock picking equipment you used would have to have the same "zipper" structure to thread through the S bend without getting stuck in the lock.
Ixal
QUOTE (War Wrecker @ Nov 16 2014, 10:34 PM) *
The way the locks are designed makes them virtually impossible (or at least in the case of the second one) to pick with conventional lock picking techniques.

The way you normally pick a lock is by using a bunch of bits of metal to press the lock mechanisms out of the way like the teeth of a key, and then you have another piece of metal to twist the lock to open the door, like the base of the key.

The first lock isn't opened by a key with "teeth", instead being opening by a bunch of pegs, and has several "fake" holes making lock picking it not quite impossible, just infinitesimally more time consuming (as the number of "holes" needed cannot be derived, so theoretically all combinations need to be tried) than picking a regular lock, as well as needing completely different tools to pick.

The second lock is opened by a key with teeth, but the shape of the lock is very exact, and every piece of lock picking equipment you used would have to have the same "zipper" structure to thread through the S bend without getting stuck in the lock.


I doubt there are that many people left in SR who specialize in physical lockpicking tools and are good enough to come up with lockpicks for those things (unless everyone starts using them). The few that exist will likely ask for premium payment. Its more likely that the runners will resort to a more unconventional or messy way to get past the lock, ranging from magic, over destroying the lock with fire or acid to leaving the lock alone and smashing through the door. And that only if they can't find a other way in.

And the other downside of physical locks are that the key is also physical and can be "liberated" by the runners or copied. The lock might be offline, but the database of the company which made the lock likely is not.
War Wrecker
Oh yeah of course, nobody is going to bother trying to lock pick these. They'll look at them for 3 seconds, go "I've never seen this lock before and I'm pretty sure I can't pick it", check if it's alarmed, and then take the violent option. Or alternatively try to pick it, fail miserably, and then go with the violent option.
Stahlseele
@Ixal
That is actually quite the smart idea . .
Smash
QUOTE (War Wrecker @ Nov 17 2014, 08:34 AM) *
The way the locks are designed makes them virtually impossible (or at least in the case of the second one) to pick with conventional lock picking techniques.

The way you normally pick a lock is by using a bunch of bits of metal to press the lock mechanisms out of the way like the teeth of a key, and then you have another piece of metal to twist the lock to open the door, like the base of the key.

The first lock isn't opened by a key with "teeth", instead being opening by a bunch of pegs, and has several "fake" holes making lock picking it not quite impossible, just infinitesimally more time consuming (as the number of "holes" needed cannot be derived, so theoretically all combinations need to be tried) than picking a regular lock, as well as needing completely different tools to pick.

The second lock is opened by a key with teeth, but the shape of the lock is very exact, and every piece of lock picking equipment you used would have to have the same "zipper" structure to thread through the S bend without getting stuck in the lock.


So this is another application of GMs not being able to suspend disbelief?

Good grief, I'm glad I don't play in one of those games. Seriously, if I rolled 5+ successes on a locksmith check with my trusty lockpick set and the GM pulled out the 'Oh, you can't pick this kind of lock' on me, then I'd probably walk on that game.

Why would anyone even want to do that? I'm throwing that one squarely on the pile of 'Everything is meant to be wireless but it's not because.....fuch you deckers!' and leaving it alone from this point onwards.
Umidori
In theory, and specifically on the point of the type of lock in question, I don't entirely agree, as there are reasonable limits to skills and what they cover.

Having the Pistols skill doesn't let you shoot exotic and nonstandard pistols like Laser Pistols, for example. Should the Lockpicking skill let you pick exotic and nonstandard locks?

That said, I can definitely find fault with the GM for the contrived nature of this planned encounter. Realistically, with non-electronic locks already being a rarity in the setting, completely exotic lock designs like these would be so amazingly rare as to be unbelievable that one of them would still be in active use - let alone two of them, of two entirely different designs, both in the same location.

Add on top of that the "coincidental" mission requirement to leave no trace purely to make the fact that this is an exotic kind of lock even matter and you've basically shot suspension of disbelief for the plausibility of the mission full of holes - you might as well have your runners stumble onto Dunkelzahn and JetBlack having drinks on the other side of these doors.

~Umi
SpellBinder
For the 'zipper lock,' how about picks made of myomeric wire and/or memory metals so they can take the bend and stiffen as necessary, or just be straight like regular picks for more 'regular' locks?
War Wrecker
I'd say nanites could pick this lock, heck nanites could just EAT the lock. And as for picks made of memory metals, they'd have to be the exact right thickness for the lock, otherwise they'd catch in the lock. If you look carefully there are what appear to be "gears" and they're just crannies for lock picks to get caught in. Not sure if they're actually gears or if their only purposes is to mess up lock picking attempts.

Also that being said, if your GM uses this lock on you more than once you should argue that if these locks are /that/ common that the lock pickers arsenal would have picks for them. Otherwise how else is the GM meant to justify repetitive use of such an obscure lock?

Anyway this kind of thing is meant to be used for "a lock that cannot be picked", not a "if you'd prepared you could've picked this lock".

And as Umidori said, yeah your pick locks skill doesn't cover weird niche items just like your close combat group doesn't cover mono filament whips. Too weird and nonstandard to be included in the typical skill.
SpellBinder
Have you read the description of the "Swiss Army Weapon"? Packed up it's the size of a pencil box, but can 'open up' to something the size of a pole arm. One object, two shapes with disparately different volumes.

Lockpicks made of memory metal that could adjust their thickness as need be isn't that far fetched for Shadowrun. Regardless, I do get the point you're trying to make.
War Wrecker
On the flipside that key looks very delicate and flimsy, I'd wager the locking mechanism couldn't be too strong, otherwise the key would wear and break. So it'd probably be fairly easy to just demolish the lock.
Shaidar
This sounds like a case of "Legwork Rulz All" because Using Strange physical locks would work very much like a Distinctive Style for the company and shadowy types knowing that they have 'supposedly' unpickable locks serves as a deterrent.

Legwork should inform you of the existence of weird locks, then cue the team Face to seduce someone with access to the proper key in order to properly identify and High-Rez digital scan the necessary key. Afterword, the team Rigger/Tech Specialist can nano-forge the necessary key.

Working the shadows isn't a Single-Player Game folks it takes a team everyone has a piece of the puzzle.
Stahlseele
Well, it cetainly can be, if you are a Magic user and Hacker in one.
Correct Spell or simply a Spirit to put into it and you are in already.
Sendaz
QUOTE (Shaidar @ Nov 17 2014, 07:12 AM) *
This sounds like a case of "Legwork Rulz All" because Using Strange physical locks would work very much like a Distinctive Style for the company and shadowy types knowing that they have 'supposedly' unpickable locks serves as a deterrent.

Legwork should inform you of the existence of weird locks, then cue the team Face to seduce someone with access to the proper key in order to properly identify and High-Rez digital scan the necessary key. Afterword, the team Rigger/Tech Specialist can nano-forge the necessary key.

Working the shadows isn't a Single-Player Game folks it takes a team everyone has a piece of the puzzle.
Plus depending on the level of seduction, the team may well have access to said original key while the mark is otherwise 'distracted' to get in and out and have the key tucked back in his pockets before he departs in the morning none the wiser.
ShadowDragon8685
QUOTE (Umidori @ Nov 16 2014, 11:32 PM) *
Having the Pistols skill doesn't let you shoot exotic and nonstandard pistols like Laser Pistols, for example. Should the Lockpicking skill let you pick exotic and nonstandard locks?


Yes. And yes. You should damn well be able to use a laser pistol with the pistols skill. You draw it like a pistol, hold it like a pistol, fire it like a pistol; it's a pistol.


QUOTE
Add on top of that the "coincidental" mission requirement to leave no trace purely to make the fact that this is an exotic kind of lock even matter and you've basically shot suspension of disbelief for the plausibility of the mission full of holes - you might as well have your runners stumble onto Dunkelzahn and JetBlack having drinks on the other side of these doors.


JetBlack's still kicking, mind you.
Sengir
QUOTE (Ixal @ Nov 17 2014, 12:53 AM) *
And the other downside of physical locks are that the key is also physical and can be "liberated" by the runners or copied. The lock might be offline, but the database of the company which made the lock likely is not.

Another problem is that a lot of people are running around with ultra-HD cameras in their heads, simply handling a key in front of people could allow them to make a copy.
War Wrecker
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685 @ Nov 18 2014, 01:36 AM) *
Yes. And yes. You should damn well be able to use a laser pistol with the pistols skill. You draw it like a pistol, hold it like a pistol, fire it like a pistol; it's a pistol.


RAW say no. Common sense says yes.

Oops, game is balanced against common sense. Who'd have thunk.
KarmaInferno
Someone not used to lasers might have some difficulty hitting at first, though. You don't have to lead targets or adjust windage or many of the other things associated with putting bullets downrange.

Kinda like someone defaulting due to not having a particular specific skill, huh?

Oddly enough, someone NOT used to shooting real guns may have a better initial time than someone who is an expert at them. It's easier to start from a blank slate sometimes than having to unlearn old habits.



-k
Modular Man
I'd say this lock shouldn't be impossible to pick with the locksmith skill. See, what's the alternative? Creating an Exotic Skill for one lousy piece of equipment? It's strongly suggested to not do that for even an entire solitary character, as I recall, so for a lock? Really?*

That said, it's going to be much, much harder to crack this using conventional tools and skill. To me, that says higher threshold, extended test, possibly less equipment bonus. A situational positive dice pool modifier could be the ultrawideband radar, as seeing what does what inside this fiddly lock saves a lot of time.

That can be a challenge on the run altogether: The infiltrator saying that she can crack this, but will need about 15 minutes to do that, and there's a guard passing by every other minute... It simply adds a challenge to the run that the team has to mitigate. That's fair play for any GM, I say. Go for it.

*Weapons and combat already get more skills than other sets of expertise, mind you. I think the laser pistol situation doesn't quite compare well to this lock being exotic.
Jaid
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Nov 17 2014, 01:22 PM) *
Someone not used to lasers might have some difficulty hitting at first, though. You don't have to lead targets or adjust windage or many of the other things associated with putting bullets downrange.

Kinda like someone defaulting due to not having a particular specific skill, huh?

Oddly enough, someone NOT used to shooting real guns may have a better initial time than someone who is an expert at them. It's easier to start from a blank slate sometimes than having to unlearn old habits.



-k


just to be clear: i am speaking from a position of ignorance.

having said that, however, i'm somewhat doubtful that using a pistol frequently calls for adjusting your aim due to wind or long range. unless you are literally a professional target shooter or something, maybe, typically if you're using a pistol it's because you are in close quarters. certainly, the bullet will drop, but most people aren't going to worry about the tiny fraction of an inch that the bullet will drop, and likewise with wind; when you're shooting something 2500 feet away, sure, that's gonna be an issue. but for a target that's 100 feet away? i have my doubts that you'd normally do much adjusting for wind or bullet drop, particularly when you're aiming for something the size of a human torso in the first place. frankly, there isn't enough travel time for a bullet to make much of a difference in leading a target either, unless they're traveling absurdly fast.

now, if the argument was for a laser sniper rifle, that might be different. though even then, my gut tells me that for the kind of shots where you're adjusting for wind and bullet drop, you're going to be taking your time to aim and will likely be able to figure out that you need to aim right at your target instead of leading them.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Jaid @ Nov 17 2014, 12:55 PM) *
just to be clear: i am speaking from a position of ignorance.

having said that, however, i'm somewhat doubtful that using a pistol frequently calls for adjusting your aim due to wind or long range. unless you are literally a professional target shooter or something, maybe, typically if you're using a pistol it's because you are in close quarters. certainly, the bullet will drop, but most people aren't going to worry about the tiny fraction of an inch that the bullet will drop, and likewise with wind; when you're shooting something 2500 feet away, sure, that's gonna be an issue. but for a target that's 100 feet away? i have my doubts that you'd normally do much adjusting for wind or bullet drop, particularly when you're aiming for something the size of a human torso in the first place. frankly, there isn't enough travel time for a bullet to make much of a difference in leading a target either, unless they're traveling absurdly fast.

now, if the argument was for a laser sniper rifle, that might be different. though even then, my gut tells me that for the kind of shots where you're adjusting for wind and bullet drop, you're going to be taking your time to aim and will likely be able to figure out that you need to aim right at your target instead of leading them.


100 Feet away for a Pistol is a long way. Just so you know. smile.gif

Even with a rifle at close range, you may need to adjust for windage, depending upon strength of wind. At longer ranges, it is definitely a thing, and bullet drop does occur even at 300-400 Meters (sometimes even closer), depending upon your Zeroed Range preference.
Stahlseele
Still, Smartlink should take care of all of that and thus it's all just different ammo . .
Smash
QUOTE (Modular Man @ Nov 18 2014, 05:42 AM) *
I'd say this lock shouldn't be impossible to pick with the locksmith skill. See, what's the alternative? Creating an Exotic Skill for one lousy piece of equipment? It's strongly suggested to not do that for even an entire solitary character, as I recall, so for a lock? Really?*


That's the point I'm hitting at. At least as the rules stand you can see at character creation that you can't fire a special weapon with a conventional weapon skill. The restriction is spelled out and you have the option to remedy it. Not so with the 'special' mechanical lock. The player is not presented with the following at chargen:


The REAL Locksmith

This skill functions in the same way as normal Locksmith except it is only used in situations where the GM pulls out the 'F___ You players' card and says the lock is too special to pick dispite the fact that you wanted your character to be good at picking locks, breaking into safes etc. Possibly in some kind of kick-ass ex-spy kind of way. Perhaps you invented all those locks that are supposedly anti-runner? Whatever man, just throw this mofo back in your GM's face ...... oh and take 2 off the target number champ..... you deserve it.
War Wrecker
So what do you do if you get faced against a combination lock... with 100,000 combinations, oh and it's manual.

You can't really "pick" that. That doesn't mean it's "uncrackable" or that it can't simply be forced or destroyed.

I think the argument that every lock should be "pickable" is silly.

But I agree that players, especially those with lock pick should be given a way to deal with the lock, but not by picking it.
SpellBinder
Only 100,000 combinations? The lock I used for my locker in high school had 64,000 possible combinations (40^3), while the safe at the place I work at in the summer has a combination lock with 1,000,000 possible combinations (100^3), and both are over twenty years old.
binarywraith
QUOTE (War Wrecker @ Nov 18 2014, 12:30 AM) *
So what do you do if you get faced against a combination lock... with 100,000 combinations, oh and it's manual.

You can't really "pick" that. That doesn't mean it's "uncrackable" or that it can't simply be forced or destroyed.

I think the argument that every lock should be "pickable" is silly.

But I agree that players, especially those with lock pick should be given a way to deal with the lock, but not by picking it.


If the locksmith skill isn't used to pick locks, exactly what is it for?

Any mechanical lock can, by definition, be opened mechanically. If it's not mechanically pickable, then there is a non-mechanical element keeping it closed and that will have to be dealt with. See also maglocks.
Umidori
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685 @ Nov 17 2014, 08:36 AM) *
Yes. And yes. You should damn well be able to use a laser pistol with the pistols skill. You draw it like a pistol, hold it like a pistol, fire it like a pistol; it's a pistol.


But this starts us down the road of reworking the skills system entirely, starting by removing Automatics and folding them into Pistols and Longarms based on how you operate each specific weapon. If an Ares Redline runs off Pistols, why not an Ares Crusader machine pistol? To be fair, I'm actually in favor of reclassing skills in this general manner - I'm just not sure how you'd go about doing it, or I'd have made house rules for it already.

But one thing to remember - there's more involved in the Pistols skill than just aimming. There's also maintenance.

There's a lot to learn about the basic operation of any firearm, from more complicated things like being able to field strip your gun or clear a jam, to simple things like knowing where the safety is and remembering to turn it off. If someone hands you a laser pistol that is ready to fire, you'd be able to shoot a few blasts off no problem, but what if you picked one up without a clue if it was combat ready?

Does the thing have a safety? Where? Is the safety on? What does this colored light mean? Why did it start blinking? What is this other gauge over here indicating? Okay, this looks like a warning or error indicator, but I don't know what the symbol means! Squiggly red lines around a diamond shape? What's this other one that looks kind of like a "Road Narrows" sign on a highway? "OOA"? What the Mungo does that mean?

(Yes. Right side, under the fire mode selection. Yes. The light indicates weapon status based on color. It's blinking to indicate the capacitors are pre-charging. The red line around the diamond indicates the lasing cavity is currently overheated. The other symbol indicates the lens array is Out Of Alignment, which is what the letters stand for as well.)

QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685 @ Nov 17 2014, 08:36 AM) *
JetBlack's still kicking, mind you.

Yes, I'm aware. By the same token, The Big D could be as well, in some strange form or another. The point is the sheer unlikeliness of the situation, even with JetBlack being quite alive and reasonably well. wink.gif

~Umi
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (War Wrecker @ Nov 17 2014, 11:30 PM) *
So what do you do if you get faced against a combination lock... with 100,000 combinations, oh and it's manual.

You can't really "pick" that. That doesn't mean it's "uncrackable" or that it can't simply be forced or destroyed.

I think the argument that every lock should be "pickable" is silly.

But I agree that players, especially those with lock pick should be given a way to deal with the lock, but not by picking it.


"Pick" is not the correct word here. "Crack" is. Combination Locks CAN be cracked, as can Physical Key Locks. It is a better word in my opinion. Especially for the silly Locks presented earlier. smile.gif
Neraph
Shaped charges open all sorts of doors... and sometimes walls...
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Neraph @ Nov 18 2014, 08:47 AM) *
Shaped charges open all sorts of doors... and sometimes walls...


True... Love me some Shaped Charges. smile.gif
Umidori
QUOTE (Neraph @ Nov 18 2014, 09:47 AM) *
Shaped charges open all sorts of doors... and sometimes walls...

"The public sees him as a knight in shining armor."
"This goes through armor. And goes through the victim... and the wall... and the tree outside..."

~Johnny Dangerously
nezumi
Yes, every lock can be picked. That is the nature of secure systems; nothing is 100% secure. Sometimes picking it takes far more work than the other methods, but it's always available.

The first lock listed, while unusual, isn't some uncrackable snowflake. It's a tubular lock, and you pick it the same way you pick any tubular lock. I've picked tubular locks with 6 pins, 4 settings per pin, so 4,096 combinations. Do you think it took me infinity time? No, it took me about half an hour on the first try. I'm pretty bad at picking locks, and I was using the wrong tools, but it really didn't take very long. That lock takes longer, but it's not an exponential increase. The way you pick a lock (if you're doing it manually) is you try every pin and see which one sticks. Then you try all the remaining pins and see which one sticks. Then the remaining, and so on, until you crack it. So it's not a question of 6 positions ^ 26 pins, it's a question of 26 + 25 +24 +23 +22 +21 + 20. Longer than 6 + 5 + 4 + 3 + 2 + 1, but not so much that anyone should be talking about infinity.

Yes, that first lock also uses special tools. My normal pick wouldn't fit in there. But a sewing needle would. The only issue is getting torque. I expect any runner to be able to solve that problem with or without the lockpicking skill. As a GM, my ruling would be lockpicking skill applies (if you have it -- I run SR3, where lockpicking is a specialty skill not listed in the main book), with a penalty for it being freaky.

The second lock is different. The functionality is the same as a conventional lock, but its keyway makes access hard. So this isn't a skill question, but a tool question. Lockpicking skill applies, but you need a tool to be able to reach it. I couldn't tell you off the top of my head what I'd use in my real-life setting (but I've never had a chance to handle that lock either). So that would be a chance for the players to do a little puzzle-solving and invent (or do the footwork prior to acquire) a tool with that degree of fine manipulation, while still being able to make it around curves. Plus some pretty significant penalties for the weird angle/leverage.

These arguments of a lock being unpickable (barring of course combination locks, which aren't pickable, they're crackable nyahnyah.gif ) is, I suspect, rooted in ignorance on the functionality of locks. They're pickable. The question is just what sort of tool, and how long it takes.
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