Paizo's 3 stage playtests do a pretty good job and it's not like it cost them sales or anything.

I'm a bitter, black-hearted bastard when the dust settles, and at the risk of destroying the overall positivity of this thread, I'd like to say add a few things. Padraig, I'm glad you're feeling better about the company, and I'm thrilled you're actually getting paid, even if it's store credit for proofing. It's more than I would have expected a year ago, and more than I expect a year from now. Despite your current positive experiences, I know that people rarely change, and when they do not by much. It might be six months or a year, but eventually the people in charge - of the company and the gameline - are going to fuck you over again. Arguably, Jason never stopped, considering the absolute shit that's been passed as product lately.

Which is not to say I hate Shadowrun, or the fans, or even the people that write for it. If Padraig, Bull, Cain, and Crimsondude are having fun and actually getting compensated for it, writing the products they want to write and receiving the feedback they deserve on it, that's great. If they fans enjoy the books and buy them, that's great for them. I just can't afford to trust them anymore, and I wouldn't encourage anyone else to.

Just to chime in with what Patrick said: I have been paid for everything I ever did for CGL, be it store credit for proofreading or be it ca$h for artwork, and never have to remind anyone to pay me, too (sometimes I'll ask when a certain payment will arrive because I lost track, and that's all).

Carry on.

AAS

Thread necro to inform those that care that Catalyst Game Labs is up-to-date with payments due to me. I go into the new contract I'm about to sign with optimism.

Well, as optimistic as Shadowrun can be, anyway.

So the Johnson didn't screw you for once?

Well... he did get into more contracts...

Yeah, it was nice to get home, check the mail, and realize that even though I had forgotten I was getting paid in earth-moneys for Street Legends, they had remembered and cut me a check.

Unexpected money is always welcome, good to hear the cash is comming in on time for you guys now.

So I'm away from the game for a few years and everything goes to drek. =) Just got done reading threads and updates through May of 2010 on The Great Unpleasantness. Did it go to trial? What was the outcome? I am holding a Limited Edition SR4A in my hands, and CGL/BattleShop appear to be going concerns. Did the whole thing just smooth over and life continued, or did they go bankrupt and restructure? Did Post Human et al get satisfaction in court? Guessing the PACK system I'm looking at here in my Runners Toolkit isn't Ancient History's. How does it differ? Looks like AH's lore archive is no longer online. GAH!

Can someone summarize?

Bad drek happened. Things happened. Better drek happened. Life is still drek. Buy a hat.

It's Shadowrun, what else did you expect?

There are plenty of threads around that cover things in detail.

But I guess a summary would be:

Someone at CGL (or maybe In Media Res) made some no-nos in regards to accounting methods and co-mingling of funds
Freelancers weren't being paid/paid on time
CGL was thought to be sure to lose the SR license
Bunch of people quit/refused to release their material already written
CGL kept the license
CGL put out some material that was already written and some questionable material that had to be completed anew after some material was withheld from various writers
SR started making money again and the products seem to be getting better
Errata is still a thing that is 'being worked on'.

I'm not certain everything I attribute to CGL was actually a CGL issue, I can't recall off-hand who owns what etc.

I'll be honest, and the fallout from the stuff still has me very wary to purchase SR products, which is a bummer.

Ask for a summary and you get a summary.

Can someone elaborate on the summary?

Sure. I keep this link handy just in case.

Summary of the Great CGL Fallout of 2010.

With a tip o' the hat to AH.

The owner of CGL built his mansion using company funds. So the freelancers, their printers, and CGL's business partners (like Wildfire) didn't get paid because CGL had no money. Then all the competent people quit as a result of either not being paid or because they were told to shut up and ignore the facts. And all the partners like wildfire demanded their stuff and money. And people filed suits demanding their money or the company be liquidated if they couldn't pay.

Anyhow, the quality of SR products has completely crashed, with crap like War! as the leading example.

opinions differ

And now that this conversation has returned like a bad case of indigestion...

The general consensus is that the product line took a rather large dip culminating with WAR!, and there is mixed feelings on how good it's gotten since then. Many people are overly critical now due to the varied issues that occurred, and you'll see many who don't give a product any chance on its own. Any grammatical errors are torn asunder and quickly drop a product into the "crap" bucket for lots on this forum.

Summary: The CGL debacle made some people permanently jaded against the product and/or company.

And was, of course, precisely what I didn't want coming up, so to speak, in this thread. TAKE IT SOMEWHERE ELSE, PEOPLE. I don't want the ghost of flamewars past dropped in here.

And kzt? I'll try not to take that personally.

I'm not allowed to comment on the quality of the products. I will say I've done my part to stop typos and grammatical errors, and I feel that much has improved.

kzt, Jhaiisiin and ravensmuse, thanks for the summaries. I had already read the contents from AH's chronicle of events you linked to, and have spent the last two days reading the actual threads. But as you'll note the chronicle ends in May 2010. Does anyone know if there was a legal resolution to the June bankruptcy proceedings? Someone is cheerily updating Facebook posts every few hours (presumably Jason Hardy) and product is still shipping out the BattleStore doors. Did the whole debacle just freeze in time after May? It seems Topps relicensed the rights to CGL and all, but I'm having trouble getting any closure on the specifics. Seems like the conversation and information flow just stopped in October 2010 when Mesh said "That sounds like a nice ending. Thread closed." More specifically, it's like I feverishly read through a thick, protracted epistolary novel (or SR 4 Campaign setting exposition) only to find the ending is missing. =)

Patrick Goodman's OP seemed like an epilogue of sorts, but the actual climactic final chapters are missing. If there was no ending, I get it. But if there was, would love to find the final chapters and what happened to the Colemans (if anything). =)

Furluge's prediction seems to have come true (I know it was true for myself until readying all this): "Catalyst is going to keep making Shadowrun with all the same old people in charge, they're going to do everything you hate, and 90% of gamers will like it and won't even have realized any dispute happened in the first place."

To honor PG's request, go ahead and make a new thread about this so DS can generally respond to it instead of clogging up this thread with further off-topic banter. We (Dumpshock) will pick it up there.

Sorry Patrick, hadn't seen your request before my last post.

Peace. =)

As requested, new thread located here.

Maybe he likes his infected to sparkle in the sun

I'd like to mention that I only gave the link and gave no commentary, so I'm sorry if I bothered you Patrick

Coolgrafix and ravensmuse: No sweat. It's just a very sensitive subject to me, and a lot of others, and I'm trying to keep things moderately positive in this thread.

Shortstraw: Possibly. I still take umbrage at people who don't know me questioning my competence.

"You know me from posts on a forum, not personally. You don't know my mannerisms, my life, my history, nor my intelligence in other areas. I am far more than simple text on a screen. You know not my race, creed, religion, nor any other facet that makes up the complex form of a human being. Do not attempt to even try and mitigate me down to a simple soundbite. I am not a political platform. I am not a number. I am a free human, and will fight anyone that attempts to make me anything but." - Me.

So, should we start making Turing's tests to everyone to determine who is human and who isn't around here?

If you do that, I suggest you read the book "The Most Human Human" by Brian Christian. It's about his participation in the 2010 Loebner Prize, and how he goes about figuring out where computer intelligence and human intelligence differ. And also how he uses that knowledge to try and with the prize for the "Most Human Human" - I.E. the non-chatbot that is most obviously a real person.

Member No. 14,465


I beg to differ.

Well played, X

Not a joke and not a place to pick a fight with me.

That said, good one.

A sad truth about life, in the grand scheme of things, we're lucky to even be numbers, let alone remembered as something more. And I would gather, on a long enough time line, we won't even be that fortunate.

I get what you're saying and I think it's even well said, it was just far too easy to take the shot. I always take the shot

You must be the change you wish to see in the universe. ~Mahatma Ghandi

I dig

Fair enough, I'm the same way.

I already know I won't be remembered for anything. Maybe that's what makes me want to fight for my recognition as a person now while I'm here to fight for it.

Oh, look, thread necromancy.

There's a lot of yammering in the 5E Wish List thread about pay rates and such like. I don't normally do this, but in the interests of transparency, I'll entertain questions about what I make, my process, and what it costs me to write for SR. I will entertain questions only about my personal situation, and I reserve the right to not answer you if you come across as an annoying git.

So, that said: Fire it up. What, if anything, do you want to know?

I have a question.

Have you ever eaten at the Big Texan? I drive through pretty often and have yet to stop.

Several times, though I've never attempted the 72 oz steak. Good steaks, nice people. Little pricey for my tastes, but that's going to vary from person to person.

Still there in my version of SR, and if I ever get to work on that part of Texas for the game (and I have a lot of evil plans), barring copyright and trademark issues, it will become game canon.

Having lived in San Angelo for over a decade, I always like the fact little ole sleepy San Angelo was a rowdy border town in SR, full of smugglers and T-birds.

Sure. Only one or two times. I don't think anyone was trying out the 72 ounce that time.

My son watched a man attempt the 72oz. Steak when he went to visit his Grandparents. Man, that is a LOT of steak.

My uncle's done it. Twice. I look at that thing and it scares me. I can finish a 22 oz steak, but that's about my limit.

I shudder to think what that challenge would cost in SR with the scarcity of real meat....

I do not even know how much an oz is in proper weight measurements. Metric System! Do you speak it?!
However, I do appreciate your openness, Patrick, and while I don't have any questions about payment, I want to use this opportunity to thank you.
Not only you, though it's this kind of communication that helps the community tremendously, but most of the freelancers whose work I've come to enjoy. You guys usually go out of your way to produce something fine and are incredibly approachable and polite.

2 Kg and a bit. Plus at least a bite of the salad, potato, roll, etc.

Don't get snarky on me. Yes, I speak metric. There are even converters out there for your convenience, but since I'm trying to be nice.

1 ounce (oz) is 28.35 grams (g). The 72 ounce sirloin is slightly more than 2 kg of remarkably lean beef. If you eat it, the salad, the baked potato, the dinner roll, and the shrimp cocktail in one hour or less (you don't have to eat any gristle or fat in the steak), you get the meal for free. (Oh, did I mention you've got an audience? You don't just get to sit at your table and try it in peace. No, that would be too easy.)

72 oz. = 2041.2 Grams = 2.0412 Kilograms... That is a LOT of meat.
EDIT: Damn, Ninja'd twice.

That's half a baby worth of meat!

Also, hats off to you Patrick. You show time and time again that you're an upstanding fellow garnering my respect.

Man, Texas is a craaaaaazy place
I could have googled, but I was in the mind to poke a bit of fun
I've had the Buffalo Burger (portion for children) at a local place. 500g meat patty plus fries, and that was my absolute limit. I didn't even feel good afterwards even though it was tasty!
The biggest thing was ... 1,5kg (three of my patties) of meat on a burger with a mountain of fries and cheese, iirc. Horrible.

Crazy, Isn't it?

A normal size burger here is 90g, think I've seen up to 300g.