But that logic would imply that you could take drugs to lessen the Essence Impact of 'Ware outside of Grades of improvement, which is not the case.

Or maybe those drugs are already factored in

If it was actually part of the rules, you would need to purchase the Drug in perpetuity, which is never outlined anywhere.
Really, it is simply fluff with no mechanical aspect.

Source (preferably not from 4E/5E)?


The previous editions' explanation was more along the lines of "custom-made for a specific user", actually. I don'T see where you get the immune system from.


Again, do you have a source for this, or is it just rationalization?


But with strong mechanical implications, and that's where it becomes problematic.

Which has been indicated, by the Writer, to be fluff, with the exception of those who actually take a Negative Quality (Sensitive System) to represent the strong mechanical implications. So...

Unfortunately any such "indication" by the writer here on this board (and my individual knowledge of the existence of such an "indication") is worth zilch when being confronted by a player who looks at the RAW/FAW texts and comes to the conclusion that cybered individuals in SR5 are permanently dependent on immune suppressing medications ... That guy will simply reiterate the parts that were already quoted and then tell me to shut up about "those unimportant people that tell about their original intentions when writing that text on an internet forum instead of having provided an officially published text that actually reflects those intentions."

Don't get me wrong: I'm not trying to insult Wakshaani for his work there. I'm just telling you how a (very) large number of players that I met over the years would have reacted - or rather will react - due to their reactions concerning comparable issues in previous editions.

Sadly, that is very true...
Most of my associates go the other way, though. There is no concrete mechanical impact (simply implication), so it is ignored, for the most part, as inconsequential. Their stance is that if it had meant to be an actual mechanic with teeth, it would have been explicit.

And here I should point out why I put in the "You are not Ominescent!" sidebar in Chrome Flesh. Because some players *will* claim that they can get a Knowsoft of things like Mr Johnson's real plan. I hate having to do that since the VAST majority of RPG people are great, but, well, there's always That Guy, so.

A datasoft maybe, but a knowsoft? Is "Mr. Johnson's Plan" a knowledge skill?

Besides, that fluff creates problems with massively diverging fluff and rules, just like the exploding bricked devices that are on fire create rules/fluff dissociation (your brain is on fire but that won't result in damage). That's my one main issue here. A sudden break from medical science and previous fluff would be my other.

A player telling his GM to shut up? That's fresh.
I have to remind you GM's fiat overrules even actual RAW, not just random fluff sentences taken without context.


That kind of behaviour is not dealt with by sidebars.

Let's just say that I have been "that player" on some occasions myself. Not necessarily by telling someone to "shut up" literally, but by implication when refusing to accept such outside / internet sources that must be deemed as "unofficial" or "not RAW/FAW" and thus have no precedence over other personal opinions ... particularly if those other personal opinions are indeed based on "RAW/FAW".



Unfortunately your reminder is worth "zilch" as well because opinions on GM rights and powers also vary (significantly sometimes). In the vast majority of groups that I have played with any house rulings - both for RAW and FAW aspects - had and still have to be decided upon by all players with equal rights. On that level "I" as a GM am a "primus inter pares" at best and not the "god-like" entity you seem to envision the GM to be. In "my" groups that kind of power is restricted to actual gaming sessions when RAW / FAW information is lacking and a debate would stall the current game.

And I would like to remind You to Rule # 0 : Never play with Idiots/Assholes.
A GM that arbitrarily overrules the RAW may be one and may loose the Players quickly.
We had a Railroading GM that was unreliable too.
after a couple of Sessions we ousted him as a GM because he was untolerable for the Group
being a Player at a Table is a privilege,Yes, but being a GM has its own responsibilities too
and If a GM misuses his "Power" he becomes a Dictator (and we all know what happens to dictators sooner or later, or what SHOULD happen to them )

And NO, I'm NOT one of Cochises co-players

HougH!
Medicineman

Never ceases to amaze me what folks will argue over. It's a piece of background text guys, that we've already proven can be interpreted in different ways by different people, the writer of which has already voiced the intent behind it. If, in your games, you want to take it further and hamstring your character with a bunch of additional penalties for using Cyberware and fall back on that sentence for doing so, fine, go have fun with it. But don't pretend that there's some hidden part of the game that needs enforcing.

If you're GMing and you intend to enforce rules based on that sentence, then let your players know before time. It's just common courtesy. However else you do stuff with your group is fine, but ultimately unimportant to the Topic at hand except as an aside.

The problem with this whole thing is that it totally changes the fluff behind cyberware. There was NEVER any mention of needing anti-rejection meds in the first FOUR editions of Shadowrun and now it's been retconned to always been a part of Shadowrun. Sorry that was just jarring as all hell.

Not true, as in SR4 there was fluff that you needed drugs to suppress the immune system as well. Not sure about older versions, as I started with SR4. But I do know that Leonora Bartoli, the violinist with the first cyberarm also needed lots of immunosuppressants as well from the fluff.

Nope. We've been over this.


I'd like a source on that.

I agree completely. The idea of implant-induced immune defficiency was around for some time and the medication is just an additional fluff detail for me. A logical one, at that.

What else would they be tailored to, hair color?


It's an example how easy it can be to handwave that but of fluff if one only wants to...

Build, skin texture, bone structure/density, personal body temperature, teeth color, personal blood pH-value ... unless you're deliberately ignorant, there's a wide range of factors within a human body that have nothing to do with its immune system.


The words you are looking for are "no, this is just my personal rationalization".

You as a player can hold any opinions, but those opinions will stay yours alone as it's the GM who establishes the way the world works, and thus acts as the final arbiter.
Sure you're free to argue and even refuse to play in a world that works in a particular way, but finding another player is much easier than finding another GM, minding that it's the GM who's hauling most of the load in a group.


Great, now do tell me with an honest fact that overruling a random sentence that contradicts the way the setting has been for years, and is directly harmful to an already underpowered subset of player characters, constitutes being an asshole.
Also, Rule #0 is actually "Have fun". One can have fun even playing with idiots, especially if they're an idiot themselves.


Yeah, skin texture and teeth colour are precisely the things cyberware that can be rejected by immune response will be crafted to.
Also, Essence loss represents the difference between the colour of your cyberware, your eyes, and your hair. They just don't go together, it's so awful you're gonna die.

Okay, so you decided to completely ignore the rest of what I wrote ...
Let's just forget that I was and usually still am the GM within the referenced groups and just reiterate it once more: Your personal views on GM rights are yours not mine nor that of a rather large group of role players that I have encountered over the course of roughly 30 years now ...

Fatum, please stop the derailing of the thread.

Sixth World Almanac p33

Thanks for looking it up.

Now to an actual thing:

The implant medic nanoware does not work ruleswise again. The rules speak of a rating, the table gives us only a percentage cost of the implant. Should it read "Rating x 10% implant cost"?
Also, it only works against Matrix damage.

@Deathstrobe

Not to be cantankerous, however that was a shadowtalk comment which was followed by the Kay St. Irregular's counter comment of:

So who was right?
It does leave room for debate.

Now something hinky was certainly going on with the tech and her reaction to it as there was reports of her growing paranoia about the hand and supposedly even being stabbed by that same hand forcing her to use a gun on it to try and stop it, albeit too late to save her life.
Although again that was in the fluff section so of course grain of salt, but it was hinted at in a few places so I would say there may be something to it.

I went back through the old Cybertechnology book, following Hatchetman's journey down the Way of Steel, as I like to call it, from his first implant all the way up to his going under the knife for cyberzombiedom and he certainly did not mention having to be a lifetime of meds over the years due to the normal gear.
Though of course once he was a CZ he was on a cocktail mix of who knows what to keep the body going, but even then it was mentioned to be more about nutrients though I would not be surprised if some anti-reaction was in there as well given the invasiveness of it all.
Nor did any of the crunch mention something along those lines as being required for normal 'ware but of course the meds might be such a mundane thing that it just isn't mentioned, so we do recognize that it could still be a thing but just not mentioned as it is assumed to be standard though it would have been nice to clarify it in the crunch.

That said, Cyber rejection is certainly a thing and I think I like Wak's interpretation in that a certain percentage of the population is going to have the Sensitive System or similar NQ that would require them to be on anti-rejection drugs, but that does not mean everyone will need to be on them, hence it is left at GM's discretion.

That way if a player wants to add that particular facet to his character's roleplay he can easily integrate it and if not he is not wanting to go that route he is not forced into it.