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Koekepan
QUOTE (pbangarth @ Nov 14 2019, 05:25 PM) *
Oh, yeah. In the campaign for which I created him (but which never got off the ground) there were stricter limits than the book. I'll fix that when I take a karmagen look at him. One challenge for me will be to play a character who doesn't come up with the ideas all the time. It's tough to shut off my idea engine. Or my mouth. wink.gif

And if I don't need Restricted Gear, I have more points! Min-max Min-max Min-max Min-max Min-max Min-max!

Hey! I was the 5000th member to join after Thanee!



MiniMax, the shortest troll in town, clocks in at six feet tall and six feet broad.
Thanee
Street Name: Selina
Name: Skye McGregor
Archetype: Street Shaman
Metatype: Elf
Gender: female
Age: 24
Height: 1.68m (5 ft. 6 in.)
Weight: 54kg (120 lbs.)
Hair: blonde
Eyes: green
Skin: fair

Character Generation:
[ Spoiler ]

Appearance:
[ Spoiler ]

Background:
[ Spoiler ]

20 Questions:
[ Spoiler ]
Mulcarn
Alright looks good. Job well done. You managed to create a decently high force ally spirit without crippling your character in the process. Think I'll start the Campaign on December 1st, or somewhere close to then. So that gives you guys a little over two weeks to prepare or tweak things as needed.
pbangarth
OK, here's Quick Willie in Karmagen format. Things changed a bit, but his Willieness still shines through. I lusted for a moment over nanoware, especially anti-rad, considering where we are going, but that wouldn't be Willie till after his Cerebral Booster, (and he has NO skills that need Logic ... yet), and I didn't want to metagame that much.

Speaking of which, Mulcarn, I assume players should stay away from your new thread entitled "Spirits and Magical Threats".

[ Spoiler ]



EDIT: QW with the corrected karma costs is in post #68.
Mulcarn
Hehe, maybe. I poured over some older editions and combed through some of the novels to get the answer I was looking for more or less. They can read it if they want to, it won't spoil or ruin anything since the nature of most magical threats is rather nebulous and is left to the GM to determine. Mechanically speaking, Street Magic gives GMs a bunch of useful tools and templates to tweak big bad major mojo slingers as preferred.
pbangarth
Willie will be very happy to have his magical buddies help protect him from nasty mojo. He'll stand in the way of bullets all day long, but that brain-frying shit? yuck.
Mulcarn
One of the more frightening aspects of Dark Spirits/Awakened is that it takes an already powerful archetype and essentially cranks it up to 11. Take that prospect and add in the fact that they are a lot more proliferate than I had originally thought.


The world of Shadowrun consists of roughly 6 billion people. 1% of that number are Awakened in some fashion or another, which is 60 million. And of that number roughly 1% are Twisted/Toxic/Tainted in one aspect or another, which is 600,000.
pbangarth
I don't think Willie can carry that many bullets.
Thanee
QUOTE (Mulcarn @ Nov 16 2019, 07:13 AM) *
The world of Shadowrun consists of roughly 6 billion people. 1% of that number are Awakened in some fashion or another, which is 60 million. And of that number roughly 1% are Twisted/Toxic/Tainted in one aspect or another, which is 600,000.


And they ALL live in Seattle! rotfl.gif


Okay, maybe not...

Bye
Thanee
Thanee
QUOTE (Mulcarn @ Nov 16 2019, 05:49 AM) *
Alright looks good. Job well done. You managed to create a decently high force ally spirit without crippling your character in the process.


Yeah, that wasn't easy. I think, she came out pretty well-rounded. smile.gif

I did lower the attributes a bit farther down than I wanted, but you have to save those points somewhere...


Speaking of which... are the Forms okay? Especially the vehicle-forms: "motorcycle" (which, I guess, is fine) and "roadster" (was thinking something of the size of an MX-5 here; not sure whether that is too much)?


So, start in two weeks, then? Cool! That should give me enough time to get her background written up. smile.gif

Bye
Thanee
Koekepan
QUOTE (Mulcarn @ Nov 16 2019, 08:13 AM) *
One of the more frightening aspects of Dark Spirits/Awakened is that it takes an already powerful archetype and essentially cranks it up to 11. Take that prospect and add in the fact that they are a lot more proliferate than I had originally thought.


The world of Shadowrun consists of roughly 6 billion people. 1% of that number are Awakened in some fashion or another, which is 60 million. And of that number roughly 1% are Twisted/Toxic/Tainted in one aspect or another, which is 600,000.


Interesting point.

So let's see. Just taking population proportions from today, that would peg the greater Seattle conurbation at roughly 3 million (meta)human souls. However, given concentration as a result of the upheavals in the region, we could bump that up to maybe 4 million (honestly, a lot of the region is pretty thinly populated anyway).

One percent of that, including everybody down to the barista who can talk to the spirit of soykaf and nothing else, is 40,000. Of those, a much smaller proportion would be full mages. At a wild guess (Mulcarn's campaign depending, of course) there are 1,000 or fewer full magicians in Seattle, with many of the remaining 39,000 just being individuals with some sensitivity and a knack.

Assuming toxicity or other malignant variation is evenly distributed, and at 1% or so of the magically active, that allows for roughly 10 malignant magicians in the sprawl, aided by a few hundred adepts and mediums.

Still not good news. Especially if that includes dual-natured insect-inhabited people ...
pbangarth
@Thanee

Hey, Thanee, help me out.

I might be missing something, but it appears to me you paid too much for elfness and Attributes. The Karmagen system asks one to pay nothing for metatype, and you spent 30 karma. And I can't figure out the prices you paid for both regular and special attributes. At 3 X New Level, the only costs you list that make sense to me are the two where you didn't raise the base value and paid nothing.

I think you should have a lot of Karma points to still spend. Am I missing somthing? Did I pay too little for Quick Willie?
Thanee
Oy. Seems like you still have the old book there.

There was a pretty extensive errata for the karma generation system.

Let me see, if I can find the list of changes, I think I have them written up somewhere...

Bye
Thanee
pbangarth
Oh, shit. I have the PDF dated 2008. How far out of date is the old man?
Thanee
Found it. smile.gif

QUOTE
p.41 Karma Character Generation Table
The Karma Cost for Metatype (shapeshifter type, etc.) should be “As BP*.”
The Karma Cost for improving an attribute by 1 should be “New rating x 5.”

p.42 Step 1: Choose Your Metatype or Other Character Race Option
The first paragraph should read:
“First you must choose metatype or other alternative character concept (i.e. shapeshifter, AI, sasquatch, etc.); there Karma cost for metatype or race is equal to the BP cost for that metatype or option (i.e. if a race costs 10 BP, in Karmagen it costs 10 Karma); the BP cost should be noted as it is important for Step 3. The Metatype Attribute Table (see p. 70 and p.73, SR4) or the relevant table in the section describing the new character races in this book provide your character’s starting and maximum attribute ratings.”

p.42 Step 5: Convert Your Karma to Nuyen
The second line should read:
“A maximum of 100 Karma may be converted to nuyen in this fashion, or 120 if the character has the Born Rich quality (p.96).”

p.43 Focus Bonding Table
The Karma Cost for weapon foci should be “3 x Force.”

p.43-44 Character Creation Example

Marissa wants to make a new character for the latest Shadowrun campaign, something a little different—a sasquatch street druid called Sacnoth. Her gamemaster tells Marissa that they’re using the Karma-based character generation system, and she has 750 Karma with which to create Sacnoth.

First off, the cost of playing a sasquatch is 40 Karma, reducing Marissa’s total down to 690. Marissa purchases the Magician (Druidic tradition) and Mentor Spirit (Oak) positive qualities for 40 Karma, reducing her total to 650. To buy some more points, Marissa takes the SIN (5 BP version, citizen of the UK) and Incantation Geas negative qualities, bringing her Karma total back up to 680. As a sasquatch, Sacnoth begins with the Uneducated negative quality for no Karma.

Now it’s time for buying attributes. The basic cost for a sasquatch character is 40 BP; this allows Marissa to spend up to 455 Karma (one-half of her starting Karma plus twice the BP cost) on Sacnoth’s attributes. Intuition is of prime importance to druids, so Marissa decides that’s the attribute she wants to max out. Finally, she spends another chunk of points to increase her Body to 8—after all, what’s a sasquatch that can’t take a few hits? The total cost of her attribute increases is 280 Karma, bringing her total down to 400.

CODE
Attribute    Value    Karma Cost
Body           8          75
Agility        3          25
Reaction       2          10
Strength       5           0
Charisma       3          25
Intuition      6          75
Logic          3          25
Willpower      4          45
TOTAL                    280


As a sasquatch, Marissa’s character starts out with Magic and Edge attributes of 1 and an Essence of 6 ( for now). Sacnoth’s Initiative is derived from adding Reaction and Intuition together, resulting in 8. Marissa increases both Magic and Edge to 3 by spending 25 Karma each, bringing her total Karma down to 350 .

Now Marissa buys Sacnoth’s skills. Starting off with her maximums, Marissa decides Sacnoth will have two rating 5 skills—Assensing and Astral Combat, critical for a dual-natured sasquatch—one rating 3 skill group, Sorcery, and Enchanting 3. The Conjuring group skills Banishing, Binding, and Summoning she buys individually at rating 4 and takes specialties in each of them. That takes care of Sacnoth’s magical skills, so now Marissa rounds her character out with some basics: First Aid 2, Perception 3, Survival 2, Tracking 2, and Unarmed Combat 2 (Subdual +2).

For knowledge and language skills, Marissa starts out with the Perth-Athabaskans Sign Language as Sacnoth’s Native language, and makes the sasquatch fluent in French Sign Language (Jive+2) at rating 4. To reflect the sasquatch’s background (and mindful of his lack of formal education), Marissa takes Botany 3, Druidic Lore 4, Magic Background 3, Medical Theory 3, Astronomy 3, and Sapient Critters 3.

CODE
Skill                          Karma Cost
Assensing 5                        32
Astral Combat 5                    32
Astronomy 3                         7
Banishing 4 (Plant Spirits +2)     24
Binding 4 (Plant Spirits +2)       24
Botany 3                            7
Druidic Lore 4                     11
Enchanting 3                       14
First Aid 2                         8
French Sign Language 4 (Jive +2)   13
Magic Background 3                  7
Medical Theory 3                    7
Perception 3                       14
Perkins-Athabaskan N                0
Sapient Critters 3                  7
Sorcery Group 3                    35
Summoning 4 (Plant Spirits +2)     24
Survival 2                          8
Tracking 2                          8
Unarmed Combat 2 (Subdual +2)       8
TOTAL                             290


After spending the 290 Karma points on skills, Sacnoth has 60 Karma remaining.

Cashing 5 Karma in for nuyen, Marissa uses the 12,500 nuyen to purchase a basic commlink (Meta Link running Vector Xim with a sim module, Virtual Surround Music, a sasquatch-sized monocle with image link, sasquatch-sized headphones, and sasquatch-sized AR Gloves), a handful of linguasofts (English 2, French 2), a shoulder pouch of food and tools (equivalent to two survival kits), and four months of a Low Lifestyle (a sasquatch’s lifestyle costs 30% more than normal). This brings her down to 55 Karma remaining.

Marissa can select up to 6 spells for Sacnoth at 5 Karma each. She chooses Camouflage, Clean Water, Armor, Heal, Stun Bolt, and Nutrition. After this, Marissa just has 25 Karma left.

For contacts, Marissa chooses as Sasquatch Bartender (Connections 2, Loyalty 4) and a Neo-Celt WizKid Gang Member (Connections 1, Loyalty 2). This comes to a total of 22 Karma.

With 3 Karma left, Marissa goes back and converts 1 of them to nuyen to buy a rating 5 magical lodge (a collection of heavy stones carved with ogham letters), and spends the last two points to specialize her Botany skill for Gathering, giving her Botany 3 (Gathering +2).

With all her Karma points spent, Marissa finishes the character by calculating his starting Condition Monitors, answering the Character Quiz, and rolling for his starting nuyen.


Bye
Thanee
pbangarth
...and back to the drawing board, I guess. Thx.
Thanee
QUOTE (pbangarth @ Nov 16 2019, 07:42 PM) *
Oh, shit. I have the PDF dated 2008. How far out of date is the old man?


I bought the PDFs for the main rulebooks, my "current" Runner's Companion is from 2012 (it was a free update, I also had the old version, probably the SR4 -> SR4A upgrade).

Bye
Thanee
pbangarth
Alright, here is Quick Willie, 750 Karmagen, paid for appropriately. Much more like the BP version, especially since I had to go back to Wired Reflexes from Synaptic Booster. So his Essence sucks again. Good thing he can soak damage well, 'cause healing will be crappy!

I saved the Cerebral Booster though. I'm glad, because after sleeping on it, I think that device will have a huge effect on QW's future. And role playing him as he learns to think will be a blast.

[ Spoiler ]


EDIT: Sooooo ... go to post #75 for the corrected corrected version.
Thanee
Since you won't get your Body up to 10, anymore, you could just drop the Exceptional Attribute BOD (40) now, which would almost get you to that Synaptic Accelerator upgrade.

Bye
Thanee
pbangarth
Yeah, I thought about that, but I would still be 28,000 nuyen short, and there is the 100 karma limit on gear as well. QW is at 73 and the Synaptic Booster would take him to over 120 karma for gear. I'm NOT touching the Cerebral Booster!

And, hey, you never know when some magician might come along to bump his BOD to 15!
Thanee
Two more small things... smile.gif

QUOTE
Ork [30] [Karma cost listed in square brackets]
Special Attributes [60]


Ork is 20, not 30.

And, I think, your total for Special Attributes is a leftover from before and should be 25 now.

Bye
Thanee
pbangarth
I used to be good at this shit. Honest.

The 60 is a typo, and I counted it as 25 while working it out on paper. Missed the Ork as 20 thing though. So, the added 10 karma, plus 40 for dropping the Exceptional attribute would get him to within a few karma points of the money needed to buy synaptic boosters, but there is still the 100 karma point limit on gear. I'm sticking with the gear as is (for now).

But, maybe Gearhead(Suzuki Mirage) (at 10 karma) would be cool. That is QW all the way. That leaves 40 karma to go. I think I will beef up some rigger aspects. Say, after the LOG bump, he realizes that he should have some drone functionality.

Yeah, more work.
Mulcarn
QUOTE (Koekepan @ Nov 16 2019, 12:23 PM) *
Interesting point.

So let's see. Just taking population proportions from today, that would peg the greater Seattle conurbation at roughly 3 million (meta)human souls. However, given concentration as a result of the upheavals in the region, we could bump that up to maybe 4 million (honestly, a lot of the region is pretty thinly populated anyway).

One percent of that, including everybody down to the barista who can talk to the spirit of soykaf and nothing else, is 40,000. Of those, a much smaller proportion would be full mages. At a wild guess (Mulcarn's campaign depending, of course) there are 1,000 or fewer full magicians in Seattle, with many of the remaining 39,000 just being individuals with some sensitivity and a knack.

Assuming toxicity or other malignant variation is evenly distributed, and at 1% or so of the magically active, that allows for roughly 10 malignant magicians in the sprawl, aided by a few hundred adepts and mediums.

Still not good news. Especially if that includes dual-natured insect-inhabited people ...


When I crunched the numbers I came to an average of 450 practitioners of dark magic living in Seattle, using roughly the same method you used above. About 10% of them are full magicians. With the rest being either adepts or aspected. I used the same formula for the uncorrupted, coming in to about 3000-4000 full magicians with the rest being adepts or aspected magicians.

Also, those numbers don't take into account wild or free dark spirits.
Mulcarn
QUOTE (Thanee @ Nov 16 2019, 02:03 AM) *
Yeah, that wasn't easy. I think, she came out pretty well-rounded. smile.gif

I did lower the attributes a bit farther down than I wanted, but you have to save those points somewhere...


Speaking of which... are the Forms okay? Especially the vehicle-forms: "motorcycle" (which, I guess, is fine) and "roadster" (was thinking something of the size of an MX-5 here; not sure whether that is too much)?


So, start in two weeks, then? Cool! That should give me enough time to get her background written up. smile.gif

Bye
Thanee


RAW it's fine, but I think she has too many different forms. Try to narrow it down to two. One is her natural, true form and the other is a simulacrum of whatever (cat, motorcycle, mount, toaster, etc) you want.
pbangarth
Alright, here we go again for Quick Willie in Karmagen. Sorry for all the rewrites.

Vignette of early Quick Willie
[ Spoiler ]


Stats

[ Spoiler ]


50 Questions
[ Spoiler ]


EDIT: updated 27 Nov 2019
Koekepan
As the originator of the redneck runs thread, I feel obliged to say: chaw and rye. And maybe a backpack full of energy drinks.
pbangarth
QUOTE (Koekepan @ Nov 16 2019, 08:40 PM) *
As the originator of the redneck runs thread, I feel obliged to say: chaw and rye. And maybe a backpack full of energy drinks.


Willie has found them all in various dumpsters. The pre-chewed chaw was a little off, but Willie handled it with his usual stoic attitude.
Thanee
QUOTE (Mulcarn @ Nov 16 2019, 11:56 PM) *
RAW it's fine, but I think she has too many different forms. Try to narrow it down to two. One is her natural, true form and the other is a simulacrum of whatever (cat, motorcycle, mount, toaster, etc) you want.


Okay, reduced it to two and bought a regular motorcycle. smile.gif

Bye
Thanee
pbangarth
"Sleeping on it" really does work.

I think I will drop the driving ability a bit and bump survival skills a bit. That feels more like Quick Willie to me. I'll edit the post above and make a note when I'm done. Gotta walk the dog now. He's staring at me. Not a good sign.
Mulcarn
Okay, so the team so far consists of a Street Mage, a Cat Shaman and a Bounty Hunter. Wiz, hope I don't kill you guys in the prologue mission!
pbangarth
Quick Willie's stats in post #75 are edited.

"Bounty Hunter?" Interesting new ideas keep popping into Willie's mind these days. "Is there money in that?"

Hey, we will survive on the streets no problem. And if the drek hits the fan, we can duck into the Ork Underground. Well, Willie can, anyway. But with his Or'Zet of a whole 1, he should be able to talk their way in, right? Right?
pbangarth
Sold some ammo and used up the extra cash to buy software.
SleepIncarnate
Looks like pbangarth and I came back at about the same time. And I always loved shared games with him and/or Thanee. Looks like you guys still need a techie type, unless I missed one. I have a few concepts in mind I could use, though the threat of HMHVV infection might make me lean more mundane and less TM...

Let me know your thoughts and if you're interested.
pbangarth
Good to see an old running mate.

We have two mages and a ... tank(?) who has only limited understanding of the Matrix, so someone who actually understands it would be useful. Don't know how evil-toxic-radiation-infused-sicko-sludgefests will interact with a technomancer, though.

Willie, on the other hand, is always up for creative opportunities for a snack. biggrin.gif
Mulcarn
Ironically, radiation addled wackos are more tolerant and accepting of TMs than your average Corporate Joe. Go figure.

Technomancers are a huge karma sink, even magic users are less karma intensive than them. More akin to a black hole than anything else. I'd say play a Hacker/Rigger to make it easier but you can do whatever it's cool.

Also howdy!
Koekepan
And in fact one of the mages has gremlins. Lots of bad gremlins. You really don't want her touching your stuff.

The good news is, she generally doesn't want to.

After some thought, SleepIncarnate could do some good stuff with a drone rigger/demolitions expert. After all, how many problems can really not be solved with thermite? Or thermates? Or binary explosives?

You know, all Chicago needed was some well-placed drones with a really big magnifying glass ...
Thanee
Hello SleepIncarnate and welcome back! smile.gif

Bye
Thanee
Thanee
QUOTE (pbangarth @ Nov 17 2019, 12:25 AM) *
I have 2200 nuyen to spare in case I need to buy something else to make the drones work right.


You might want to get some extra Autosofts (see p. 246 SR4A for details) for the times, when the drones are acting autonomously.

Also, program ratings are limited by commlink ratings (i.e. a R3 commlink will run programs at R3 only (even if the program rating is higher)). You can get the Optimization program option (Unwired p. 115) to be able to run those programs at their full rating.

Bye
Thanee
pbangarth
I'm figuring out how Willie is dealing with technology now, as he has recently become more aware of how things work. He has some software listed, and the Steel Lynx comes with some autosofts. I might change things but am having fun playing with his awakening understanding.

Of course, one could also say that all this high-falutin' role-playing is a coverup for a rusty memory about hacking rules I tended to avoid when I was in the loop a few years ago. That's not going on here at all. Nope, nothing to see here, folks. Move along.
SleepIncarnate
Taking a quick glimpse at the group, looks like Thanee is a mage/face, pbangarth is a sam/wheelman with limited rigging, and koekepan is a combat mage. So the most important hybrid would be hacker/infilttator, am I right? Trying to narrow down the concepts.

Speaking of, would a SURGE character with the only overt aspect being neoteny be within the tolerable limits?
Mulcarn
We have a Cat Shaman that can double as the group's Face, a Street Samurai and a Generalist Mage. So yeah that just leaves Hacker left if you wanted to round out the group.

Hmmmm, you'll be suffering from a lower HP track and might/will suffer some -DP modifiers on a lot of Social Tests. SURGE and meta-variant traits like that are better left in the realm of NPCs. But... if you think the RP value will outweigh the negatives then I'll allow it for now. Probably just personal bias but I find playing an Infected (within reason) to be more palatable.
SleepIncarnate
I'm not expecting to be a social character since we do have a face. I could go social hacker, but trying to fill our bases first. I have a few ideas I'm kicking around, one in particular that I'm thinking I like best for this group. If I go with that one, will not be SURGEd.

Edit: If I decided to go the adept hacker route, would you allow from The Way of the Adept?
Mulcarn
Yeah, go for it.
pbangarth
Alright! Three Awakened and Willie. "Send Willie into the Twisted Zone. He can take it."
SleepIncarnate
QUOTE (pbangarth @ Nov 18 2019, 08:48 PM) *
Alright! Three Awakened and Willie. "Send Willie into the Twisted Zone. He can take it."


Maybe. I'm back and forth between adept and mundane. Looks like Thanee's mage could also work as an infiltrator, so may double down on tech with decking and rigging and go mundane. But the concept is solidifying. Will think it over as I drive today (professional trucker) and start statting her up tonight.

I will give you a bit of a peek though. Her street name? IC Princess.
Thanee
Yeah, my character should be okay at being stealthy, but not super good. Willie should be at least as good at it. smile.gif

Bye
Thanee
pbangarth
Yeah, Willie is a bit better overall than Selina at stealthy things. A bit.
Koekepan
Can Opener isn't super stealth, but give her some soft shoes and padding to wrap around her axe and she can be invisible.

She can also sit under the table, tying Mister Johnson's shoelaces together if the cat shaman is getting pissed off.

Hm. Maybe I should invest in some cable ties. They still exist in the Shadowverse, right?
Koekepan
QUOTE (SleepIncarnate @ Nov 19 2019, 12:22 AM) *
Taking a quick glimpse at the group, looks like Thanee is a mage/face, pbangarth is a sam/wheelman with limited rigging, and koekepan is a combat mage. So the most important hybrid would be hacker/infilttator, am I right? Trying to narrow down the concepts.


Mulcarn's right. She's a generalist with some combat capability. Arguably, she's a better healer than harmer.

But if you need someone to help you wiggle some ritual magic together on Monday, and dispel a spirit on Tuesday, then turn you invisible because of your bad hair day on Wednesday, then summon a pack of watcher spirits to hassle your ex on Thursday, she's your girl. Dwarf. Dwarfgirl. Dwarfette. With an axe.
SleepIncarnate
I love dwarves. One of my big three. Had an idea for one, but she won't be this hacker. Besides, dwarf riggers are a stereotype unto themselves.
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