? I did some reasearch and the rest of the prices look good but tanks go from like $159-450$ for a steel tank with accessories. Aluminum ones are cheaper. What gives?
Full Version: Scuba gear
Someone in my group was looking into buying scuba gear for his character until he saw the cost of the tank. 3000 ? I did some reasearch and the rest of the prices look good but tanks go from like $159-450$ for a steel tank with accessories. Aluminum ones are cheaper. What gives?
? I did some reasearch and the rest of the prices look good but tanks go from like $159-450$ for a steel tank with accessories. Aluminum ones are cheaper. What gives?
Yeah, a friend of mine dives a lot and he told me it's more like three grand to buy everything, not just a single tank.
Welcome to the SR pricing guide. 
You can justify the canon listing or you can replace the numbers with whatever appeals to you.
-Siege
You can justify the canon listing or you can replace the numbers with whatever appeals to you.
-Siege
Used '34 Oldsmobile in 1944: $50.00.
Used '94 Oldsmobile in 2004: $3,275.00
Change in Price: Over a 6,000% increase.
Movie Ticket in New Jersery in 1944: $0.20
Movie Ticket in New Jersery in 2004: $8.00
Change in Price: Nearly a 4,000% increase.
Steel SCUBA Tank in 2004: ~$159.00.
Steel SCUBA Tank in 2064: ~3,000.00
Change in Price: Just over a 1,750% increase.
Such a minor difference... get over it already.
Used '94 Oldsmobile in 2004: $3,275.00
Change in Price: Over a 6,000% increase.
Movie Ticket in New Jersery in 1944: $0.20
Movie Ticket in New Jersery in 2004: $8.00
Change in Price: Nearly a 4,000% increase.
Steel SCUBA Tank in 2004: ~$159.00.
Steel SCUBA Tank in 2064: ~3,000.00
Change in Price: Just over a 1,750% increase.
Such a minor difference... get over it already.
Of course the 1994 car is vastly superior to the 1934 car in terms of absolute quality. It's faster, safer, more comfortable (By FAR) and gets better gas mileage. It will last longer and has less maintenance to deal with (although that maintenance requires a specialist). It's arguable whether or not the 2004 movie is better than its older counterpart. Certainly we spend more money on special effects and I think actors are paid more (though they may not be any better). The 2004 movie, of course, is in full color, stereo (if not surround) sound and is probably in an air conditioned theater with nice stadium seats. The 40's flick, is not, of course.
So I say do what you want with the prices. It's the economy, it doesn't make sense now so why should it have to in the future?
So I say do what you want with the prices. It's the economy, it doesn't make sense now so why should it have to in the future?
It's not the tank that's expensive it's all the gear to make the tank work and usable. It's sure not 500 bucks unless the price dropped by a few grand in the few years since I was interested in it.
Compared to a 2004 vehicle, there's neglible differences in the 1994 model. Same with the 1944 vehicle (if any were being made since it was WWII at the time) vs. 1934 vehicle.
But continue to delude yourself all you like. I'm sure that $0.05 can of soda you bought in 1944 was vastly inferior to the one you drank today that you got out of a vending machine for over a buck.
Besides, Clyde, you do realize everything you just argued to defend the price change applies to things 60 years in the future, too, right?
But continue to delude yourself all you like. I'm sure that $0.05 can of soda you bought in 1944 was vastly inferior to the one you drank today that you got out of a vending machine for over a buck.
Besides, Clyde, you do realize everything you just argued to defend the price change applies to things 60 years in the future, too, right?
| QUOTE (Necrotic Monkey) |
| Compared to a 2004 vehicle, there's neglible differences in the 1994 model. Same with the 1944 vehicle (if any were being made since it was WWII at the time) vs. 1934 vehicle. But continue to delude yourself all you like. I'm sure that $0.05 can of soda you bought in 1944 was vastly inferior to the one you drank today that you got out of a vending machine for over a buck. |
theres negligible difference between a 34 and a 44? what about a 44 and a 54? 54 and 64? 64 and 74? 74 and 84? 84 and 94? 94 and 04?
damn, these cars really need an update
Oh darn, I'm just being a dumbass again. Silly me. My aspirin, Coca Cola, and hat are all VASTLY superior to anything those clowns in 1944 could dream of producing, baby, 'cause the price change is insanely higher. That means its better. Those suckers.
But tell you what, go see if you can get 7 acres of land and a 12 bedroom/4 bathroom mansion in Morriston, New Jersery today for $25,000. Hell, the exact same one for the same price. But is that inclusion of central air, a refrigerator, and big screen TV enough to justify a 4,000% increase in price there, too?
But tell you what, go see if you can get 7 acres of land and a 12 bedroom/4 bathroom mansion in Morriston, New Jersery today for $25,000. Hell, the exact same one for the same price. But is that inclusion of central air, a refrigerator, and big screen TV enough to justify a 4,000% increase in price there, too?
you said there wasnt much difference in cars 10 years apart. by saying that you were, in fact being a dumbass
if you are a dumbass all the time, im not too sure
you are, however, wearing the uniform
if you are a dumbass all the time, im not too sure
you are, however, wearing the uniform
Comparitively, there isn't. You're the dumbass for assuming there is. Especially in such a pathetically weak argument against inflation.
Unless you wish to list the vast changes in the two similar vehicles between 1934 and 1944, and then the differences between two similar vehicles between 1994 and 2004.
Unless you wish to list the vast changes in the two similar vehicles between 1934 and 1944, and then the differences between two similar vehicles between 1994 and 2004.
like i said, if there little difference between a 34 and a 44 whats the difference between a 44 and a 54? if theres little difference every decade, how do cars advance?
10 years is not 60 years. I know that concept must be incredibly difficult for you to grasp.
In case you missed it, which you obviously did, I said the differences between a 1934 vehicle and a 1944 vehicle were as neglible as the differences between a 1994 vehicle and a 2004 vehicle. Not that there weren't any changes, but whatever changes there were, they were likely on the same scale and thus -- yes -- neglible. That was the entire point of comparing vehicles relative to the time of their costs.
In case you missed it, which you obviously did, I said the differences between a 1934 vehicle and a 1944 vehicle were as neglible as the differences between a 1994 vehicle and a 2004 vehicle. Not that there weren't any changes, but whatever changes there were, they were likely on the same scale and thus -- yes -- neglible. That was the entire point of comparing vehicles relative to the time of their costs.
even in 60 years, if the changes ever decade are negligible not much will change
however i cant argue with dr. funkenmonkeytoymoon, because nobody can
however i cant argue with dr. funkenmonkeytoymoon, because nobody can
Necrotic Monkey: There's this thing called inflation, check it out. It's nifty. Interestingly enough, inflation doesn't matter if currency changes. You know, like between US Dollars and Nuyen.
[Edit]And there's the thing about the majority of items not having their prices hiked at all. Not-so-surprisingly, only items the price of which your average RPG designer might not know off-hand have experienced this non-inflation.[/Edit]
[Edit]And there's the thing about the majority of items not having their prices hiked at all. Not-so-surprisingly, only items the price of which your average RPG designer might not know off-hand have experienced this non-inflation.[/Edit]
| QUOTE (Necrotic Monkey) |
| |
oh snap, i think we just got served.
anyway back on topic. scuba gear prices are just wierd, and like someone said if anybdoy cannot come up with a reason you could just change it, your the GM and you can do whatever you want to do
Fine. Increase everything by 4 times and then you'll have the U(CA)S Dollar prices. At least doing that, the $12,000 SCUBA tank is on the same basic level of inflation as many things from 1944 are compared to 2004.
But oh wait, they call it a UCAS Dollar. Not a US Dollar. My mistake. I'm just being foolish again.
Maybe instead of wanking off, the lot of you can go through and make a completely "realistic" price guide for everything in the game. And don't make a single mistake or assume any change in quality or anything. It must all be exactly as it is today. Even cyberware. So go... get to work. Show your superiority.
But oh wait, they call it a UCAS Dollar. Not a US Dollar. My mistake. I'm just being foolish again.
Maybe instead of wanking off, the lot of you can go through and make a completely "realistic" price guide for everything in the game. And don't make a single mistake or assume any change in quality or anything. It must all be exactly as it is today. Even cyberware. So go... get to work. Show your superiority.
that is of course assuming inflation went up on a fixed rate. im not a banker or anything so i dont know. you probably do know and youll let us all know
or we could not just freak out when were proven wrong, say we were wrong and then we can argue about soemthing else?
or we could not just freak out when were proven wrong, say we were wrong and then we can argue about soemthing else?
No, there is no such thing as inflation, see. AE proved as much! There is no more US Dollar, so the change to the UCAS Dollar and Nuyen have completely wiped away ANY NEED WHATOSEVER in a price difference 60 years from now.
So get to work on that pricing guide. Go on. Go.
So get to work on that pricing guide. Go on. Go.
| QUOTE (Necrotic Monkey) |
| Maybe instead of wanking off, the lot of you can go through and make a completely "realistic" price guide for everything in the game. And don't make a single mistake or assume any change in quality or anything. It must all be exactly as it is today. Even cyberware. So go... get to work. Show your superiority. |
Yeah, that's right. Unless you can do something way better than someone else in a fraction of the time, you have no right to comment on it in any way.
Yeah, that's right. And while you're at it, you're not allowed to defend something as pathetically a non-issue as a minor change in price 60 years in the future without having a trio of people jumping down your throat about how there's no such thing as inflation and related price changes are meaningless between its counterpart 60 years in the past.
While at the same time whining because there's obviously going to be no change whatsoever 60 years in the future. And no price changes.
While at the same time whining because there's obviously going to be no change whatsoever 60 years in the future. And no price changes.
| QUOTE (Necrotic Monkey) |
| No, there is no such thing as inflation, see. AE proved as much! There is no more US Dollar, so the change to the UCAS Dollar and Nuyen have completely wiped away ANY NEED WHATOSEVER in a price difference 60 years from now. So get to work on that pricing guide. Go on. Go. |
NM people are trying to explain the logic to you. If you'd like we can ask Raygun to go over the relative price of fire arms. My .38 webley cost me $300 in 2001, I'm sure this same gun(not the collectors item the .455 is) cost a hell of a lot less in 1932.
It has been pointed out to you how prices change.I'm getting the impression that you are not yet living on your own, or haven't been for any period of time. Look at video games in an arcade. They used to be $0.25 when I was in hs, now they're at least $0.50.
For costs of basic products look at the price of milk, currently $3.50 or there abouts, a few years ago it was $2.00.
In investment circles you don't get many fix prices that go beyond 7 years because of the risk of inflation to investments or the vendor. Now that is 7 years, not the 50 we're looking at.
I think that if someone has to sarcastically inflate a point to be able to attack it, then they should just not attack that point.
You do realize that I'm the one defending the increase in prices, right? That I was the one who was pointing out that the change is actually less between today and 2064 as they were between 1944 and today?
They're the ones who are upset that there's any price change whatosever in the game.
They're the ones who are upset that there's any price change whatosever in the game.
| QUOTE (Necrotic Monkey) |
| No, there is no such thing as inflation, see. AE proved as much! There is no more US Dollar, so the change to the UCAS Dollar and Nuyen have completely wiped away any need for inflation! |
I have no idea what your problem is, but you should try to deal with it somewhere else than on Dumpshock.
The price of gasoline per liter in Finland in 1994: 5.00 FIM
The price of gasoline per liter in Finland in 2004: 1.10 EUR
The price of milk per liter in Finland in 1994: 3.50 FIM
The price of milk per liter in Finland in 2004: 0.50 EUR
[Edit]
The price of 1 SMS message in Finland in 1994: 2 FIM
The price of 1 SMS message in Finland in 2004: 0.10 EUR
The price of coffee per cup in Finland in 1994: 5 FIM
The price of coffee per cup in Finland in 2004: 2 EUR
[/Edit]
Can you easily determine the rate of inflation in Finland based on that? Do you, in fact, have any fucking clue how consumer prices have changed in Finland in the last 10 years based on just that, without a conversion rate of FIM -> EUR?
We don't have a conversion rate between US Dollars of 2004 and UCAS Dollars of 2064. We sure as hell don't have a conversion rate between US Dollars of 2004 and Nuyen of 2064, other than "assume about 1 nuyen per 1 RL USD if you can't think of anything else".
If you wish, we can do a quick table of a few common SR items and compare how their relative prices have changed in 60 years.
I never named any names, but if you think that applied to you, then that's cool. 
Did you say something? My last post was in response to Snow Fox.
| QUOTE (Necrotic Monkey @ Jul 17 2004, 03:20 PM) |
| 10 years is not 60 years. I know that concept must be incredibly difficult for you to grasp. In case you missed it, which you obviously did, I said the differences between a 1934 vehicle and a 1944 vehicle were as neglible as the differences between a 1994 vehicle and a 2004 vehicle. Not that there weren't any changes, but whatever changes there were, they were likely on the same scale and thus -- yes -- neglible. That was the entire point of comparing vehicles relative to the time of their costs. |
My example on the revolver showed how the price has gone up on an item without any great change in technology and without it being a collectors' item.
In response to other posts, you've been very sarcastic to several people trying to explain the changes to you. For the most part everyone else has tried to be civil and keep their explanations logical and to the point, in the hopes it will suddenly become clear to you.
If you don't like any of these, then just take it this way: The price is what it is because that's what's in the book. If you don't like it, don't use it. m'kay?
In response to other posts, you've been very sarcastic to several people trying to explain the changes to you. For the most part everyone else has tried to be civil and keep their explanations logical and to the point, in the hopes it will suddenly become clear to you.
If you don't like any of these, then just take it this way: The price is what it is because that's what's in the book. If you don't like it, don't use it. m'kay?
Again, am I just not clear? I'm the one arguing that an increase in price is logical while simultaneously telling them that the increases in price in Shadowrun pale in comparison to those in the real world over the last 60 years, so they should be happy it's not even higher. Read the fourth post in the thread. You're arguing the same thing, but somehow you're seeing my argument as contrary.
They're the ones who are arguing that its not and that I'm an idiot for suggesting that it is. Coming up with silly arguments about how vehicles have changed in 60 years and movies now use computers for special effects. But its apparently crazy talk to point out that the same differences apply 60 years in the future.
Oy. Whatever.
They're the ones who are arguing that its not and that I'm an idiot for suggesting that it is. Coming up with silly arguments about how vehicles have changed in 60 years and movies now use computers for special effects. But its apparently crazy talk to point out that the same differences apply 60 years in the future.
Oy. Whatever.
| QUOTE (Necrotic Monkey) |
| But its apparently crazy talk to point out that the same differences apply 60 years in the future. |
Are you ignoring everything I'm saying, then? Inflation has nothing to do with how one item has become 10 times more expensive relative to the price of another, related item. This is the main problem with ammo prices -- handguns cost about the same amount of nuyen in 2064 as they do cost USD in 2004, but ammunition costs easily 10 times more.
Similarly, you can get a regulator for as many nuyen in 2064 as it would could USD in 2004, but a SCUBA tank costs over 10 times as much. That sort of thing has nothing to do with inflation. The "worth of money", as measure by Consumer Price Indices, does not come into play at any time because of two reasons, either of which would be sufficient on its own:
1) The currency has changed and we don't know the conversion rates
2) The prices of items relative to each other have changed massively without any reason
Yes, I've been ignoring it because it does happen. In 1944 a pound of butter cost about $0.49. In 2004 a pound of butter costs about $5.00. That's a difference of just under 1,000%. However, in 1944 potatoes cost $0.25/lb. In 2004 potatoes cost $0.39/lb. That's a paultry 50% increase in price.
Those are both basic foodstuffs, yet the inflation of one over the other is vastly different.
Need another example?
In 1994 a brand new Toyota Camry cost about $15,000.00 and a gallon of gas was about a buck. In 2004 a brand new Toyota Camry cost about $16,000.00 and a gallon of gas set you back by two bucks. The vehicle had a price change of well under 10%. Gasoline (its "ammunition") had a price change of about 100%. And that's over just 10 years, let alone 60.
Prices change, and they change drastically, as the years roll by. Sometimes there's a good reason, sometimes there isn't.
Those are both basic foodstuffs, yet the inflation of one over the other is vastly different.
Need another example?
In 1994 a brand new Toyota Camry cost about $15,000.00 and a gallon of gas was about a buck. In 2004 a brand new Toyota Camry cost about $16,000.00 and a gallon of gas set you back by two bucks. The vehicle had a price change of well under 10%. Gasoline (its "ammunition") had a price change of about 100%. And that's over just 10 years, let alone 60.
Prices change, and they change drastically, as the years roll by. Sometimes there's a good reason, sometimes there isn't.
I think part of the problem here is terminology; inflation is generally used to refer to the currency as a whole, not to individual items. IANAE.
| QUOTE (Necrotic Monkey) |
| inflation is generally used to refer to the currency as a whole, not to individual items. |
Not "generally used", that is the meaning of the word. Inflation = that particular currency buys less. Thus,
| QUOTE (Necrotic Monkey) |
| Those are both basic foodstuffs, yet the inflation of one over the other is vastly different. |
should be
| QUOTE |
| Those are both basic foodstuffs, yet the price of one relative to the other has changed vastly. |
at least for the purposes of this discussion.
However, butter and potatoes are not related anywhere near as tightly as respirators and air tanks, or firearms and their ammunition. If you want to prove that
However, butter and potatoes are not related anywhere near as tightly as respirators and air tanks, or firearms and their ammunition. If you want to prove that
| QUOTE (Necrotic Monkey) |
| it does happen |
you should find examples of two goods which are only useful when used together and the prices of which have changed massively relative to each other. If you can, I'll be more prepared to accept that it might happen with SCUBA and tanks, or handguns and ammunition.
| QUOTE (Necrotic Monkey) |
| In 1994 a brand new Toyota Camry cost about $15,000.00 and a gallon of gas was about a buck. [...] Prices change, and they change drastically, as the years roll by. Sometimes there's a good reason, sometimes there isn't. |
In this particular case, there is an immediately obvious reason: the scarcity of one particular resource. Yet another thing that has absolutely nothing to do with the relative price changes of SCUBA and tanks, or handguns and ammunition -- unless earth's base metal supply is running dangerously low...
inflation, n. A persistent increase in the level of consumer prices OR a persistent decline in the purchasing power of money
It refers to both. But since you're going down the line of nitpicking such pathetically minor details, I'm sure you'll understand why I'll resume ignoring you throughout the rest of this thread.
It refers to both. But since you're going down the line of nitpicking such pathetically minor details, I'm sure you'll understand why I'll resume ignoring you throughout the rest of this thread.
| QUOTE (Necrotic Monkey) |
| I'll resume ignoring you throughout the rest of this thread. |
Funny how you always do when I've got a point...
| QUOTE (Necrotic Monkey) |
| inflation, n. A persistent increase in the level of consumer prices OR a persistent decline in the purchasing power of money It refers to both. |
Indeed it does. This mainly because the two are the same thing. If consumer prices (an aggregate of prices of everything consumers buy) go up, that means the purchasing power of money (how much the consumers can buy per unit of currency) has gone down.
When the price of one good goes up or down, that's not inflation. Oil prices going up is not inflation, although it might lead to it. The price of SCUBA air tanks or small arms ammunition going up is not inflation.
Obviously you already ignored most of the message above, since you did not comment on the part where I told you why nothing presented thus far helps explain the price changes in 2004-2064 of SCUBA relative to air tanks or small arms relative to their ammunition.
| QUOTE (Necrotic Monkey @ Jul 17 2004, 06:16 PM) |
| Yes, I've been ignoring it because it does happen. In 1944 a pound of butter cost about $0.49. In 2004 a pound of butter costs about $5.00. That's a difference of just under 1,000%. However, in 1944 potatoes cost $0.25/lb. In 2004 potatoes cost $0.39/lb. That's a paultry 50% increase in price. |
Where the hell are you shopping? I get pretty good prices on produce here, certainly compared to in the cities or New York where I used to live and potatoes are about $0.79/pound!
Which is by the way a 300%+ increase. Not as bad as the others but...
Children, play nice or I will launch into a detailed and deadly boring essay on inflation protected investments, annuities and various investment risks, inparticular inflation risks. Trust me kiddies I will do this. For those who don't know me, I'm a licenced securities broker and if need be I'll just start with the various SEC and NASD regs!
EDIT: no longer relevant and I guess not funny anyway 
I live outside Philly. pretty much the same are. I don't know what potatos went for in 1944 but I know what it is now. I bought osme thursday.
I do most of the shopping in my family as well. That doesn't change the prices in the region I was referencing. In all likelihood, the change in price in your local area was similar to those in that little area of New Jersey back between 2004 and 1944.
| QUOTE (Snow_Fox) | ||
Where the hell are you shopping? I get pretty good prices on produce here, certainly compared to in the cities or New York where I used to live and potatoes are about $0.79/pound! Which is by the way a 300%+ increase. Not as bad as the others but... Children, play nice or I will launch into a detailed and deadly boring essay on inflation protected investments, annuities and various investment risks, inparticular inflation risks. Trust me kiddies I will do this. For those who don't know me, I'm a licenced securities broker and if need be I'll just start with the various SEC and NASD regs! |
Go right ahead, and throw in some stuff about investments across non-pegged currencies too.
Maybe add a bit about how inflation will drive long term loan rates and stuff.A simple guide for those here not in financial services about inflation, interest rates, exchange rate fluctuations, and so on would be neat. at least if you already have one written...
Actually that would be great. Also, if you want to throw in something about banking and how to avoid all those damn charges they sneak in...
JaronK
JaronK
Snow Fox, I'll second the motion that you talk about securities, regs, and inflation. You can be a master poster, the equivalent of Raygun and Ancient History. You can have your own web site for Shadowrun economics.
I tried to run a Shadowrun adventure (home made) once where the characters had to pose as brokers in a brokerage firm for a week. I handed out a 1-page description to the players of puts, calls, long, short, margin, margin call, dividends, indexes, mutual funds, index funds, etc. The run failed miserably, because of the way I did it. One of the players said "I had to work harder on this run than I do for school."
This is not an offer to sell securities, nor a recommendation for any particular investment. No one should make investment decisions based on this posting alone. Nor should this be construed as tax advice. The opinions of the author and his guests can change at any time, without advance notice. If any court of law does decide that the author is liable for your losses, you agree by reading this that such liability shall be strictly limited by what you've paid for such advice.
I tried to run a Shadowrun adventure (home made) once where the characters had to pose as brokers in a brokerage firm for a week. I handed out a 1-page description to the players of puts, calls, long, short, margin, margin call, dividends, indexes, mutual funds, index funds, etc. The run failed miserably, because of the way I did it. One of the players said "I had to work harder on this run than I do for school."
This is not an offer to sell securities, nor a recommendation for any particular investment. No one should make investment decisions based on this posting alone. Nor should this be construed as tax advice. The opinions of the author and his guests can change at any time, without advance notice. If any court of law does decide that the author is liable for your losses, you agree by reading this that such liability shall be strictly limited by what you've paid for such advice.
I absolutely agree with the above 3 posters. There is pathetically little macroeconomical data and analysis on Shadowrun now. Things I would particularly like to see are the developments between different schools: whether the Keynesians survived [sic] the crossover into a world where megacorps have so much political power, which schools gained most in the economical turmoil, etc.
Other stuff I wouldn't mind knowing (or having someone decide for me) include the amount of influence the megacorps have in the daily operation of central banks, what the BoPs of the major economical powers look like, how hard have the currencies of North America and Europe been hit by the almost total lack of a transaction motive for holding cash, and if the strong nuyen should be seen as an indication that the Japanese have gotten over their hysterical approach to unemployment.
Other stuff I wouldn't mind knowing (or having someone decide for me) include the amount of influence the megacorps have in the daily operation of central banks, what the BoPs of the major economical powers look like, how hard have the currencies of North America and Europe been hit by the almost total lack of a transaction motive for holding cash, and if the strong nuyen should be seen as an indication that the Japanese have gotten over their hysterical approach to unemployment.
-- Here's a hint: the Shadowrun prices were effectively pulled from a hat in a lot of cases, with a nod towards game balance or relative pricing for similar items at the time. Inflation was not a serious factor in determining prices for Shadowrun because all new books use the original rulebook prices as guidelines, and most of those are identical or very similar to that from 1st edition.
-- This whole argument about inflation realy brings the point home that some people can't see the game reality for the trees and roll with the punches. I mean really now, this is a game world with elves and railguns and mad AIs -- but oh no, those expensive SCUBA tanks and heavy pistols totally blows my suspension of disbelief!
-- This whole argument about inflation realy brings the point home that some people can't see the game reality for the trees and roll with the punches. I mean really now, this is a game world with elves and railguns and mad AIs -- but oh no, those expensive SCUBA tanks and heavy pistols totally blows my suspension of disbelief!
Tzeentchs got it. If you dont like SCUBA gear prices, change it. You know, those gaming police have their hands full with all those D20 players that they dont have time to harass us SR players. 
actually, the expensive SCUBA tanks and heavy pistols are exactly what blows my suspension of disbelief, most of the time--or, similar details. Shadowrun is supposed to be cyberpunk + magic. the basis of cyberpunk is a gritty interpretation of the possible future. ergo, the cyberpunk part of Shadowrun should be, y'know, a possible future. the inclusion of magic is the very reason that the non-magical parts should be as realistic as possible--it makes the magic part more believable. to the human mind, it's easy to accept that if X is true, and Y is related to X, then Y is true, even if Y is illogical. if the cyberpunk X is as true as possible, then it makes it easier to accept the magical Y without breaking the suspension of disbelief.
incidentally, you're all insane except for Monkey. he's the only one that appears to know which side of the argument he's on--most of the rest of you have, at various times, agreed with his standpoint while trying to disagree with him.
incidentally, you're all insane except for Monkey. he's the only one that appears to know which side of the argument he's on--most of the rest of you have, at various times, agreed with his standpoint while trying to disagree with him.
I'm pretty sure I never agreed with his standpoint on this particular matter.
well, i did say "most of the rest". though i admit, i may have been slightly off when i called Monkey not-insane.
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