Hello again. As it stands now the game I'm currently playing in is great, but most of our heavy firepower comes from magic. Most PCs aren't skilled with guns aside from my character, and he's far better in physical combat then ranged.

So most of our battles typically involve the shaman and mage nuking the hell out of what ever our enemies are until we get into melee range, and the adepts just destroy them with close range martial arts. I'm not complaining, it's a lot of fun, but I've got a feeling our GM will be throwing more weapon based enemies at us.

Any how looking for some suggestions for better heavy pistols. My character has full ambidexterity so i'd like to turn him into a led slinging machine. Any suggestions?

For all around firepower and style in one package, you don't get much better than the Savalette Guardian. As a SA heavy pistol it has a good Concealability rating, a good clip size, and has most of its mounts available. The nice thing about it, however, is that you have the option of spending a Complex Action to fire a BF shot with it, too.

Since you have ambidexterity and apparently plan on using it, the targeting system it comes with isn't really an issue, though you'll probably want to add a laser sight anyway just in case you need or want a little more accuracy when firing a single pistol from time to time.

Other good options are the Colt Manhunter (comes with a laser sight by default and thus doesn't reduce Concealability if you decide to use one), the Morrissey Alta, and the Gyrojet Pistol. The first two have good Concealability and/or Ammo ratings, and the latter is incredibly powerful but noisy. The Gyrojet also requires its own special skill for some strange reason, so if you already have points invested in Pistols it's not really something you'll want to consider.

I think you can get a 10M heavy Pistol what is undetectable by MADs and has very high conceal. You need: Ceramic Components, Reduce Barrel, Personal Grip, Improved Conceal, Higher Power...

So you have a weapon what you can carry with you without big problems, BUT if you lose that weapon it could point to you.

I suggest picking up some skill in SMGs, personally. Assault rifles also, but that doesn't sound your style. Pistols just don't cut it when it comes to slinging lead, IMO.

I wouldn't mind picking up SMGs, but i want to be able to take advantage of my ambidexterity.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showth...ad.php?t=147670

first of all, everything must be in quick draw concealable holsters and smartlink-2

MainGuns (unconcealable one on each hip)
Eastern flavor: Savalette Guardian for rapid firepower
Western flavor: Cavalier Deputy or Ruger Superwarhawk have big firepower and you don't have to worry about leaving casings at the scene (using the usual ex-explosive or APDS means the bullet itself won't leave much evidence either) the old west mystique will be intimidating as well.

Backup Guns
Morrisey Elites for concealability, mounted in Shoulder Holsters

Surprise Guns mounted in Sleeve holsters (try to work this concept out w/ GM)
Cavalier Scouts or Walther Palm Pistols

Don't forget the Eichiro Hatamoto II, while it is a single shot, I have a character that swears by it. Of course he is a mage and has a different type of ammo to fall back on, but it is great for softening up a target.

Custom make a 10M burst-fire pistol and load in some APDS or Ex Explosive. You can squeeze in total recoil comp, a silencer, and lots of other goodies. Look in Cannon Companion for the rules. It'll cost you, but it's well worth it.

No, but they DO work in single-shot mode, which this pistol has.

It's not like the bullshit makes any sense anyway. There's no need to nitpick that much.

Why not pick up an Ares Viper Slivergun?

30 round clip, SA/BF, built in silencer, conceal 6.

Sure you fire flechette rounds, but they're no worse than normal ones. +1DL vs unarmoured, and Normal DL vs armoured, they get normal ballistics or 2x impact. Its not an issue because most armor just doesn't have the impact to make it a problem.

Take an armor vest w/ plates for 5b 3i.

That 9M becomes a 3M, which isn't a great deal worse than a 4M, especially considering you get 30 rounds and SA/BF. That's the worst you'll ever likely face. If you're taking on a guy in full security armor with a pistol you need to seriously re-think that plan. The only armor that will make it nigh useless is the winterized coverall, but how often are you going to see someone wearing THAT?

Sure the cost different between that an an armor jacket is only 100, but that flak vest is going to intimidate a civilian a lot more than a guy in a jumpsuit ever will, and that 100 adds up when you need to equip hundreds of goons.

So anyways, you ALSO get conceal 8 in a QDCH which becomes 12 under a longcoat. That's one damn concealable weapon.

Of course being generally overpowered it may not be allowed in the game.

Try seeing if you can get a browning ultrapower with the integral laser sight removed, and if it will give you an additional conceal point.

If that's all possible a 7 conceal weapon with 10 rounds to a clip that costs 525 (presuming you get no resale bonus on the sight) isn't bad at all.

The Morrisey Elite would be another contendor. 5 shots to a clip, but if you can get a return of +1 conceal that gives you a conceal 8 weapon (hold out sized), which becomes 10 in a QDCH, which becomes 15 under a +50% longcoat or similar item.

You can probably be like Deniro in Taxi Driver, Get yourself an arm holster that you can use to slide it into place and pepper someone. 5 shots won't do much, but its a helluva backup at 9M (as opposed to 4 or 5L for a HO).

If none of that is possible I also vote for a Morrisey Alta as its sleek, stylish, and small.

If memory serves, Lone Star beat cops have a standard armor consisting of an Armored Vest with Plates and a Leather Jacket. That's effectively 4/4 armor and that'll reduce a Slivergun to 1M damage.

Almost positive it was real leather, or if not it's reinforced synthetic leather since it grants 0/2 armor. And that's just day-to-day armor. If expecting something major, they'll throw on an Armored Jacket on top of the vest. Dunno how they avoid the heavy penalties, though.

There already is a version of the Browning UltraPower w/o the laser sight. Its the MaxPower. Conceal is 6. You'd have to do some fast talking to convice me that if you strip the LS off an UltarPower you should get the conceal point back...

Stick with Sav. The Viper has its pros and cons but unfortunately most of the people you'll be shooting at will probably have pretty good armor.

my only problem with the savallette is it can cost a lot to replace if you lose it compared to most other heavy pistols which may be a problem in a low nuyen campaign personally I wouldn't bother with it if you don't have a smartlink II. If you do forget everything I just said Grade A Bang! Bang!

Yeah, PAC out of the last SSC. Silly line referencing the equally silly as hell Robocop (3, was it?).

Anyone with FFBA is actually going to have an equal chance of soaking a normal HP round vs an AVS under most conditions.

Main advantage of other Heavy Pistols is the capability to use specialized ammo, the power of a Ruger Super Warhawk, the Integral Recoil of a Savalette Guardian, the concealability of a Morrissey Elite or the relative cheapness of a version of the Ares Predator. (Edit) Or the ceramics of a WW infiltrator.(/Edit)

On the otherside, the AVS has an ammo capacity comparable to a machine pistol, already capable of BF, integral silencer on a conceal 6 frame, an extra damage level, and the availability of a basic Predator.

You play your games exclusively in Winter?

The Savalette is way, way too much pistol to carry on a day-to-day basis.

I load it as part of heavy-duty kits where getting caught with a BF handgun is the least of your worries.

Otherwise, Colt Manhunter or similar HP will do nicely.

-Siege

I knew I was going to get called on that.

Without checking the book, I imagine a cop will be more interested in a BF-capable HP then he would, say, a standard HP.

Of course, that's sheer speculation and assumed role-playing on my part and certainly not a canon ruling.

-Siege

Edit: Of course, carrying a day-to-day handgun increases the chance of you needing to discard it - or swap out the barrel and hammer. Sorry, again - no basis in canon.

You're just *messing* with me that there's a way to get a run of the mill heavy pistol to 11M, right? That seems a little obscene on anything that isn't an SW50. And the whole "explosives in a pistol round" always seemed a little dumb to me.

Regardless, if you build one, that's a whole lot easier to trace, and a whole lot harder to replace.

So use caseless ammo and put a lanyard on it. And you can only get it to 10M base. With burst fire, that's 13S, +2 with Ex Explosive. Besides,it wouldn't be any easier to trace than if you went to town on someone with a Predator. They dig the rounds out of the wake of bodies you left, true, but they have to have something to compare them to, just like if you were using a Colt Manhunter or something like that. To know that those bullets came from YOUR pistol, they'd have to have your pistol. If the authorities get their hands on your pistol, you're already screwed because they probably have you too. It's the same as if you were using run-of-the-mill pistols. The fuzz (whether corporate or not) will have all the lead you dished and can trace it to your gun IF they have your gun, whether it's a Predator or a custom.

If you manage to not kill everyone, you've got descriptions as the "dude with the awesome gun", instead of "he was...a guy...with...a Predator...". This happens enough, they're going to start to get a pretty badass case file going on you, and the next time any badass guns come up, you can bet your ass some FRT will be there to own you, and fast too, I reckon.

All, of course, personal opinion, and how I play my stuff. If your crew likes building firearms, all for it. I think it's BS, and people get owned for less.

You think "the dude with the awesome gun" is any more specific in the shadows? Look at it this way: Firearm design is an option to everyone, PC and NPC alike. If there are gunsmiths who'll design you a kickass firearm, do you think you're the only one he's doing it for? You won't be the only "dude with the awesome gun." Even if you DID get bracketed enough for the cheese to go asking around, who're they going to ask about you? The gunsmith who ILLEGALLY made the thing in the first place? Sure, he might want to give you up in exchange for a little break, but what can he give them? If you left security camera footage enough for him to ID you, or if you just left him your real name and home address, that's your own fault and you deserve to get caught.

EDIT: Hell, if you still feel unsafe, have your generic heavy pistol frame look like a Predator.

If you're looking to play the kind of character that unloads massive amounts of pistol fire, the best bet might be to take powerful stock weapons (with or without upgraded ammo), clean them of prints before using, wear gloves, and then abandon them at the run site. As has been pointed out on these boards before, there's nothing quite as frustrating to an investigator when the weapon used in a crime is found at the crime scene with no way of linking it to a suspect.

Fancy custom firearms have their place, but for most campaigns, you may find expendible firearms more "consequences free." Consider creating custom firearms for special occaision use only (possible scenarios include: when the drek really hits the fan, you'll be glad you have those 6 points of RC, or if the run will net you 35,000 nY, what's the harm of using a 5,000 nY submachinegun?)

Perhaps the better rep to have is one where you don't sound silly saying, "I'm a surgeon with a Pred-III." That is to say, a character that sports an SL-2 and has Pistols/Pred-III: 5/7 is going to get a rep pretty quick as a man you can trust with a gun. Heck, an adept with improved pistols gives you that "lethal gun guy" rep pretty quick, too.

P.S.

If you got your weapon custom finished out the ass with all kinds of easily identifiable, unique characteristics, that's one thing. THAT will have serious repercussions. You might as well leave your SIN at the site. If you keep it low-key, however, you can fade back into anonymity.

it just occurred to me, to avoid people seeing your custom gun could you put ruthy polymers on it so it would be nearly invisible, and more importantly, nobody would have any idea what it looked like.

i wonder what that would do to the conceal rating of the gun ?

a 5,000 nuyen weapon left at the scene is a big paycut
there's also plenty of real world weapons to use
a SIG P-220 is lightweight and fires the easily silenced .45ACP round.
a SIG P-226 with a steel frame in .357SIG modified for full auto and with the barrel porting would be a nice heavy machine pistol.
http://www.sigarms.com/apps/cmt/img/p220-s...sport-large.jpg

I would not recommend abandoning an expensive, tricked-out firearm as part of any run. What I meant was that heavily customized firearms should be used sparringly. If the same type of weapon is used for a number of similar or connected runs, it becomes another useful piece of evidence which can be used by any of a PC's (smarter) adversaries (law enforcement, corp enfrocement, organized crime, etc.)

In the depths of Amazonia, or in some equally remote and wild setting (Desert Wars, etc.), every little bit of lethality you can squeeze from a weapon helps. You don't have to worry about evidence collectors collecting stray rounds from trees, or reviewing security footage. When your Custom Weapon of Doom is used in civilized parts, though, it's sometimes worthwhile to not bring it out for a while to let heat die-down and allow memories of your boom stick fade.

When an excellent firearm is used as part of a run (and used to its utmost), this rest period is pretty much tantamount to "losing" it for a while. Re-using or trying to pawn off dirty firearms is a great way to get caught. Then you get to be reminded just how deniable a runner really is.... : -)

My point is, evidence collectors are going to be crawling all over the bodies you leave ANYWAY, and whether you leave Ares Predator rounds in them or custom, they won't automatically trace it right to you. They have to have the gun and compare the bullets you left behind. There's no way you can be THE dude with the custom gun because there's gonna be people with custom guns all over the place. Like i said, anybody who's gonna make one for you probably won't be making one for JUST you.

I'd just like to toss in that there are still no rules that I know of that govern NPC Crimescene Investigations, nor are there rules for the cops keeping a file on your character. None. Its all up the GM. Period. So check with yours.

That being said, if there were rules for that I'll tell you right now who be REALLY pissed off: The Melee Weapon Combat Phys Ads...Weapon Foci cost a hell of a lot more than a new gun--not to mention the karma that they'd have to spend.

So don't let anyone scare you off by saying "Oooooh the cops are gonna git ya for that!!"

Because they probably won't. (Unless your GM wants them to.)

IF your GM really wants you to get nabbed and thrown in the pokey, what kind of gun you used doesn't even have to matter. Did you get wounded? Cuz there'll be blood, won't there? Well, the cops will have DNA they can compare to any DocWagon contracts. You probably left an astral sig, too. If anyone hit a PanicButton, there'll probably be a mage on the astral. Might as well carry something that'll give you as much an edge as possible.

i get around the "custom gun" issue by simply calling my simple-action-burst-firing pistol a "modified Savalette". my gunsmith re-engineered a Savalette's guts to cycle faster, replaced the parts that would see excess wear-and-tear with more expensive, durable parts, and now i've got jesus in my holster.

Hell, you can have a conceal. 5 or 6 HV assault rifle that's invisible to MADS. THAT is Jesus in your pocket.

The thing is, a custom gun does leave at least some of a trail. There's fewer of your custom gun being made than the standard model, so that narrows the field from "everyone with a stock Predator" to "people who had this particular Predator configuration made." The more extensive the changes, the narrower the field of questioning.

well, higher stopping power will be noticed right away. higher stopping power means that there's something cool about your bullet, and 99.99999% of the pieces that make up your expended rounds get left at the scene of the crime: the round itself is in your victim, the shell (if you use cased) is probably lying on the ground, and a portion of the propellent is on the ground where you fired, as tiny granules of ash. forensics can study these things, as well as the wound itself, and determine things like

a) how fast the bullet was moving (eg, was it loaded with extra propellent to make it go faster than others of its kind)

b) the general make of the weapon--at the very least, whether or not it was a pistol, rifle, SMG, etc., and i believe it can be narrowed down to model

c) where you were standing when you shot the victim, and an estimate of your height

d) an estimate of your expertise (or lack thereof) with your weapon

and maybe some other random data, like an educated guess at how many rounds your weapon holds, how fast your weapon cycles, and who knows what else. a forensics guy might not get all of these details, but he might get some--and if the same department picks up the pieces after a lot of your jobs, they might be able to slowly build a profile on you.

but, one job? nah, they're not going to pick you out of a lineup because you had a customized pistol.