Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Cyberware Addiction?
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Shadowrun
Pages: 1, 2
mrobviousjosh
I was just wondering, similar to magic addiction from MITS, is it possible to have Cyberware addiction? What are it's symptoms and effects? This is a nice flavor as a disadvantage but would be horribly overrused but it could make cybered out street sams think twice about .01 essence, right? Anyway, just wondering thoughts on the subject.
Herald of Verjigorm
Usually it's upgrade addictions. Anytime the individual sees or hears about a bit of ware that might be better than what's currently installed, priority 1 becomes getting that ware.
Da9iel
Another flaw along the lines of combat monster and braggart? Doesn't really change the way a lot of players play anyway. cyber.gif
UPTD
I'm with Da9iel. The way essence loss was explained to me was that it makes you care less about people, and destroys your human nature. (no debates on what human nature is, please)

-UPTD
hyzmarca
Ahh... cyberpsycosis.

In theory, essense loss causes a disconnection from humanity, a loss of empathy, and a weakening of one's moral center. The amoral sammie who values metahuman life slightly less than fabric softner is probably suffering from cyberpsycosis. It can also manifest as upgrade addiction. Usualy, upgrade addiction is characterized by a contempt or hatred for one's own remaining meat and for less cybered individuals. Delusions of invincibility and omnipotence are also common.


For more extreme cases....
"Oh my beloved ice cream bar...how I love to lick your creamy center! HOOOWWWWWW......and your oh-so-nutty chocolate covering! You're not like the others...you like the same things I do! Waxed paper...boiled football leather...dog breath...We're not hitchhiking anymore! We're RIDING!"
Catsnightmare
"YOU coveted my ice cream bar!"
Deamon_Knight
Or, just enforce to SOTA rules for cyberware. Kinda silly, I think, but it could be quite an expensive penalty.
Edward
Yess sota rules. They make better bullets so everybody upgrades three armour but I don’t get a penalty for using 3 month old bullets. There a way to strip cash of the PCs but that’s all there good for.

Edward
hyzmarca
"You can't take it from me now. I've had this ice cream bar since I was a CHILD! People... always trying to take it from me! Why won't they LEAVE ME ALOOOOONNNNE?"

Just enforcing rules doesn't give you the fun that is a heavily-cybered troll talking to his ice cream bar. Cyberpsycosis is somewhat taken into account by the socal penalities that low essence characters recieve. The rest is just good RPing.
Ol' Scratch
One of the things I like about Shadowrun is that it completely lacks all of the ridiculous cyberpsychosis crap that plagues many other cyberpunkish games out there. I don't care what some overrated author writes, you're not going to lose all touch with reality just because you cut your arm off and had it replaced with a technological prosthetic (especially the craptacular Shadowrun variety of cyberlimbs) anymore than you're going to lose all touch with reality if you have a friggin' pacemaker installed.

"I'm more machine than man! That makes me an irrational monster! Rrrarrr! And, oh yeah, Japan's taking over the world financially!" Feh. Cyberpunk was 80's paranoia at its worst.

That ranted, if you did want to include a character who blamed his implants for his piss-poor personality and insanity, just use the established Flaws creatively. Oblivious (dazed look as he loses touch with reality), Bad Reputation (distant, uncaring, and cold), Combat Monster (sympathy flew out the window a long time ago), and Bad Karma (nature's vindication against his heretical existance, though more likely self-sabotage for believing that crap) are all examples of ways to reflect a mucked-up personality that you can blame on your insanity.

And as far as the social penalties for implants go, that has *nothing* to do with the character's mindset. It has to do with the people he's interacting with and their prejudice against freaks -- those penalties only apply if they notice you're sporting chrome, and some obvious implants don't even really matter when it comes to it.
hyzmarca
Just cutting off an arm and replacing it with a piece of metal that isn't going to drive a person bonkers. However, it certainly can't help anyone's mental condition. Cyberpsycosis is just an exaberation of the mental problems that were already there. SHadowrunners aren't axactly the most mentaly stable group, on average. The SINless don't have access to quality mental health care, either. The average Barrons street doc who makes a living installing spurs in gangers isn't going to care if his clients are mildly delusional or boarderline schizophrenic and certainly won't provide any screening.
Kremlin KOA
actually cyberpsychosis, as in the cyberpunk genre term meant a psychological condition of sociopathy directly caused by the excessive implantation of cybernetics.
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein)
I don't care what some overrated author writes, you're not going to lose all touch with reality just because you cut your arm off and had it replaced with a technological prosthetic (especially the craptacular Shadowrun variety of cyberlimbs) anymore than you're going to lose all touch with reality if you have a friggin' pacemaker installed.

No, but someone with a Math SPU would easily lose touch with what normal people can do math-wise, people with reflex enhancers would lose touch with the speed at which normal people can react, those with encephalons would find it easy to lose touch with what normal people can do with respect to multi-tasking.

Not that it qualifies for cyberpsychosis, but I'd say that there's definitely a certain amount of alienation there.

~J
Ol' Scratch
QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Oct 26 2004, 06:48 AM)
No, but someone with a Math SPU would easily lose touch with what normal people can do math-wise

No more than a guy with a calculator would in a world when no one else has a calculator. The monstrous bastard!

QUOTE
people with reflex enhancers would lose touch with the speed at which normal people can react

No more than a normal guy hanging out with a quadraplegic.

QUOTE
those with encephalons would find it easy to lose touch with what normal people can do with respect to multi-tasking

No more than anyone with abilities that someone else doesn't possess.

All of that is as retarded as someone walking down the street under the delusional belief that because they have a watch and someone else doesn't when they ask him what time it is, they throw their hands triumphantly into the air and scream "I AM A GOD!" because they have the relatively ultimate power to tell time.

QUOTE
Not that it qualifies for cyberpsychosis, but I'd say that there's definitely a certain amount of alienation there.

Only in an elitst sort of way at most, and only by elitists in the first place.
Kagetenshi
I disagree that the watch analogy is accurate. Not only are there times when the person with the watch will lack the watch, it will also require a conscious effort to look at said watch. If the math SPU, for example, is sufficiently transparent, I see no reason why the person would keep track of what operations were trivial before the implant unless a specific and deliberate attempt to do so was made.

~J
Wireknight
QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein @ Oct 26 2004, 03:07 PM)

No more than a guy with a calculator would in a world when no one else has a calculator.  The monstrous bastard!


Except that it's not some device you have to type numbers into. It's in your head, wired to your cortex, directly augmenting your mathematical capabilities. Mathematics, counting, these are fundamental aspects of thought and perception in an educated society with advanced engineering and sciences. Changing that changes the person's outlook and interactions with society.

QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein @ Oct 26 2004, 03:07 PM)

No more than a normal guy hanging out with a quadraplegic.


I don't know about you, but I think that if suddenly, one day, 99.95% of the world's population became quadraplegics, I'd probably be affected on a psychological and behavioral level. It's not like people without reaction-enhancing cyberware are rarities. You are the aberration, not them. I also think that the comparison is bogus. Just think about how differently you would behave if you had to very consciously, carefully, and rigidly control every impulse, because you have a piece of cyberware that is designed to translate that impulse into action in order to cut out the speed bottleneck of analysis.

QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein @ Oct 26 2004, 03:07 PM)

No more than anyone with abilities that someone else doesn't possess.

All of that is as retarded as someone walking down the street under the delusional belief that because they have a watch and someone else doesn't when they ask him what time it is, they throw their hands triumphantly into the air and scream "I AM A GOD!" because they have the relatively ultimate power to tell time.

This is like the "world of quadraplegics" argument. I don't think that any premise with a domain of discourse like "a world where the vast majority of the population can't tell time" or "a world where very few people have the ability to move their body below the neck" is terribly sound when projected onto what is a modified version of our own world, i.e. Shadowrun. Likewise, telling time, that's not exactly going to affect you if you can't do it, since only one person can. That person can claim they're god, but if they're the only one who can tell time, they're going to be raving to deaf ears. Who cares if they can tell time, when no one else can? They're still the strange ones.

Being able to cave in someone's chest with laced knuckles, lift 300 pounds over your head with synthetic muscles, watch a combat knife fail to penetrate your dermal sheath, see the body heat of your enemy, and then sneak up on him, your monofilament claws extended for the kill, while he thinks the darkness conceals him? That speaks to a more primal, more basic sort of change in your capabilities, a change that's likely to distance you from others who cannot do it. Look at soldiers and martial artists. I can usually pick up someone who knows how to take care of themselves(or thinks they do) based on their personality and social interactions.

Now imagine that amplified by a large coefficient, because these abilities are literally impossible to achieve if you were unaugmented, like most everyone around you(excluding other shadowrunners; I'm talking pedestrians, mom and pop, brother the accountant, sister the gradeschool English teacher). Consider that your skin no longer is as soft, flexible, or human-looking. Your eyes are icy black orbs, reflecting no light. Under your skin, which is not your own, muscles made of something else, that feel cool, tire less quickly, and rub oddly on the titanium strands that encircle every bone and reinforce every joint.

This will change your self-perception, and thus your sense of self, even if the cyberware in question is all high-grade and natural looking. If it's as I described earlier, your personality will be shaped by the fact that the 99% of the population that thinks pupilless kevlar-skinned muscleheads are strange and scary will probably not treat you with the warmth and acceptance that every social being needs to not develop mental problems.

QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein @ Oct 26 2004, 03:07 PM)

Only in an elitst sort of way at most, and only by elitists in the first place.


I disagree. Let's look at you. You've got an "enhanced" grasp of the English language and some capacity for the art of the analogy(that you overuse and distort, I might add). You'd likely be pretty different if this weren't the case, psychologically and socially(if there is a difference). It doesn't necessarily mean you're an elitist. Having improved capabilities makes people behave differently, for good or ill.
Ol' Scratch
QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Oct 26 2004, 09:13 AM)
I disagree that the watch  analogy is accurate. Not only are there times when the person with the watch will lack the watch, it will also require a conscious effort to look at said watch. If the math SPU, for example, is sufficiently transparent, I see no reason why the person would keep track of what operations were trivial before the implant unless a specific and deliberate attempt to do so was made.

Very well. If you prefer a more rational example, it's like saying that anyone who uses a monitor every day to do their computing, watch television, or anything else that you would use a monitor for would consider themselves a god compared to someone who chooses not to even own one, let alone use one. Ditto for someone with an image link believing they were a god over someone who uses a monitor.

Hell, it's the same as arguing that someone with a Body, Quickness, and Strength of 9 and the Bonus Attribute, Toughness, and other similar edges loses all touch with reality compared to your average Joe with a Body, Quickness, and Strength of 3 and the Infirm flaw. He's well in excess of three times stronger, faster, and tougher than any mere mortal, afterall.

Being able to do things that others can't is neither an excuse nor a worthwhile explanation for some jackass who loses touch with reality. He was unstable to begin with and would have lost it one way or the other; he'd just be using his implants to rationalize it.

Technology is not evil. Technology doesn't turn you into a monster. Technology doesn't erode your morality. YOU may be those things in and of yourself, but it's not technology's fault anymore if and when cybernetics become mainstream than when computers did a decade ago or when the Industrial Revolution kicked in a hundred years ago.

You might as well say that cyberware is what made Hitler into an evil monster with eroded morality.

QUOTE (Wireknight)
Blah blah blah...

Sorry, I'm not going to respond to -- let alone bother wasting my time reading anything written by -- someone who tells me I'm an idiot.
Kagetenshi
I really think you’re overestimating the scale of the changes in outlook I’m talking about. Hell, if someone being five feet tall vs. six feet tall would have the difference it does, your Strength/Bod 9 person would have much the same sort of outlook difference, as would the people with the ‘ware I referenced. Being amongst people with similar ‘ware will only accentuate that; coming from a fairly academic background, I lose touch with the fact that many people can’t recall and apply the equations of motion off the top of their head.

~J
Ol' Scratch
That would go back to the "elitist" point I made earlier. That's not losing all touch with reality and becoming a monster, that's being an intellectual snob. There's a significant difference there.

EDIT: And, no, the difference between someone who naturally has a Body, Strength, and Quickness of 9 is the same as someone who gains it through technology. But, magically, if you do it with technology we're supposed to believe that you turn into a raving psychopath. It's total nonsense.
Kagetenshi
I never said it was losing touch with reality. I was claiming a loss of touch with the capabilities of an unmodified human.

Edit: I see the problem, we’re arguing completely different things. I never meant to claim that this would solely be an attribute of adding technology.

~J
Ol' Scratch
Which, again, has nothing to do with your knowledge, education, or anything else. It has to deal with you being who you are.

If you're going to back up the concept of cyberpsychosis simply because they give someone the ability to do something others can't, you have to do the same for anyone who can do anything that someone else can't. If one turns you into a raving lunatic due to their superior abilities, they're *all* going to turn into raving lunatics due to their superior abilities. The source of those superior abilities has no bearing on their unstable personalties and/or insanities.
Moon-Hawk
QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein)
If one turns you into a raving lunatic due to their superior abilities, they're *all* going to turn into raving lunatics due to their superior abilities. The source of those superior abilities has no bearing on their unstable personalties and/or insanities.

Which is a very good point, but it's a point that can lead the argument in two directions.

I think its reasonable to assume that people with a large amount of super-human abilities could lose touch with their fellow man. When it's from cyberware, it's called cyberpsychosis. When it's from adept powers, it's probably got a different name, but I could certainly see adepts becoming the same way as they flip and blast their way through ranks of "mortals".

Not to say either of these situations is guaranteed, or even common, but I would hardly be surprised by someone under these conditions flipping out, either.

Maybe it's less common for adepts since they still have to train for their abilities, (admittedly not as much as most people) whereas a sam can walk into a shop and a little while later walk out with new cool abilities. Maybe that's more unbalancing so they tend to go nutty a bit more often, earning cyber a bad reputation?
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
Not that it qualifies for cyberpsychosis, but I'd say that there's definitely a certain amount of alienation there.

~J
Botch
Hmm, cutting off pain feedback, destroying skin sensitivity across the body, being immune to stab wounds, many handguns and low speed auto accidents, capable of ripping a car apart with your barehands and running all day would lead to cetain level of social disassociation, neh?

Having amazing maths skills, ability to focus on 2 tasks simutaenuously, smelling delicious and capable of putting your ankles behind your head surely just leads to smugness and a lot of fun.

Depends what cyberware is used - combat cyber, social cyber, or functional cyber. But as this SR any cyber that recreates a mundane meta-human ability shouldn't really be used in a pychosis comparison.
Moon-Hawk
Yeah, I was trying to argue FOR your point, Kage. I'm agreeing with you, but I was trying to do it diplomatically.
Shhhhh, don't tell Doc Funk. biggrin.gif
Kagetenshi
I was replying to the Doc. I'm just slow today smile.gif

~J
Ol' Scratch
Cyberpsychosis and voluntary alienation of others because you're a snob are indeed two completely different and unrelated things. One is involuntary and alledgedly has to do with having metal shoved into your flesh because technology is evil. The other has to do with being an elitist jerk.

And that's *my* point. The explanations people try to give to rationalize the stupidity of the cyberpsychosis concept are little more than describing those elitists jerks. Being able to do things others can't is no excuse for any the behavior, it's a rationalization to explain your own jerkfulness (is that even a word?).

Hell, considering the way a lot of people around here see me when I post, I must have a ton of cybernetic implants installed in me. Maybe I should start using that as my excuse for not being diplomatic or charming.
Moon-Hawk
I agree. All I'm saying is that becoming an elitist jerk because you have cyberware is CALLED "cyberpsychosis".
Being an elitist jerk because you have adept abilities probably has a different name, and might be less common.
Being an elitist jerk in the generic sense for generic reasons doesn't get a special name. That's just called being an elitist jerk.

The question, in my opintion, is just how likely is cyberware to turn you into an elitist jerk. Most people would say, "Oh, not many people would turn into an elitist jerk, I know I wouldn't." But most people also say, "Oh, if I won the lottery I wouldn't really change much." and we know that's BS, 'cause almost everybody says that and almost everybody who actually wins, changes. It'd be nice to believe that only a small subset of the population would become an elitist jerk (a.k.a. get cyberpsychosis) if they got superhuman abilities, but honestly I think that's giving mankind a bit too much credit.
Kagetenshi
But having your outlook be fairly different from that of someone else because you can do something they can't is a fairly damn natural response. If we're calling all of that being an elitist jerk, I guess we can chalk most of humanity that can do something better than someone they know up under that category.

~J
Moon-Hawk
I agree that your outlook will change, somewhat. If it doesn't change in any way, then you probably have even WORSE problems. It's a question of how it changes, and how you act about it. And more of a question of whether you still appreciate what it's like not to have those abilities.
Ol' Scratch
There are two major points I was trying to make that I think got lost somewhere.

First, cyberpsychosis doesn't exist in Shadowrun. That was my original point -- it's one of the good things about Shadowrun... the original designers were wise in that they didn't cave in to the "technology is evil" paranoia that's rampant in many cyberpunk works.

Second, cyberpsychosis changes you into a raving lunatic, and that's what I was arguing against introducing. I never said that having abilities above and beyond what others have won't change you at all, or if I did I was lost in the moment. What I was saying is that it's not going to make you into a blood-thirsty monster that looks at mere mortals as animals anymore than any other advantage someone has over another will do the same. If it does, it's because you were a psychopath to begin with and are just using the implants to rationzalize your behavior.
Moon-Hawk
Oh....
Oh. Yes, I believe those points got lost somehow. I agree with that.
As for cyberpsychosis not existing in SR at all, I think it's a good theme for adding mental flaws (as was mentioned) and calling that cyberpsychosis, but I agree that it's good that cybered individuals don't NECESSARILY go crazy, as they do in some games.
Kagetenshi
As I said, we’re arguing different things smile.gif

I do think that cyberware can accentuate preexisting instabilities, but the ‘ware by itself won’t create them, I agree.

~J
Moon-Hawk
...and peace and harmony returned to the land of Dumpshock.
mfb
cyberpsychosis'd make an interesting flaw.
lorthazar
Actually having abilities beyond the normal human scope may or may not make a person a 'raving kill them all cyberpsycho'. What if your Delta'd to the max Street Samurai took on a personality like SuperMan? He could have a compulsion to protect those weaker than himself. if he has a certain memorable look people will eventually admire him, idolize him, and outright worship him. He would not be seen as some 'cyberpsycho', even though he definitely would be. it all the point of view of the people. You do bad things and you're criminally insane, you do good deeds and you're a hero.
Erebus
If anyone has read the Invisible Man, I think its a decent analogy to cyberpsychosis. (Hell, the recent movie proves the point even more).

It all revolves around the disconection of a person from society. You don't need to be a sociopath or psychopath to begin with, alls it takes is the right factors at the right time. For every mindjob that goes out and kills a dozen or so folks, there are ten more at home with their families who have the same potential under the proper circumstances.

Cyberware and the loss of essence do not equate to cyberpsychosis, but it certainly can be a triggering factor for those predisposed to the condition, or the final straw for those that have just been pushed too far.

We are all capable of just about anything under certain circumstances, though many of us would not like to admit it.

Being heavily cybered toward the predator edge of the spectrum tends to push folks more toward the dark primal side of their nature rather than towards the civilized intellectual side of things.

"The Horror, the horror, the horror..." Col. Walter E. Kurtz
Nikoli
Also, the cyberzombie fluff text that basically details Hatchetman's spiral into cromed monsterhood is a pretty good example.
Fortune
Saying all cyber-junkies are cyberpsychotic is like saying all role-players lose the plot and start to live in their fantasy world (ala Tom Hanks in Mazes and Monsters). Sure the possibility is there, but the person has to have the capacity to become unhinged beforehand.
Nikoli
Fair enough. Heavy Metal, Marylynn Masnon, D&D, High-tech crome, Troll Thrash Metal... None of these things make someone lose touch. They are merely the excuse used by those left behind.

But, for those with the propensity for for such extreme detachment and sociopathic thinking, the slightest push in the wrong direction can easily be leveraged into a full on psycho-twinkie
Erebus
"full on psycho-twinkie"

I nearly snarfed my coffee.
Ol' Scratch
QUOTE (Nikoli)
Fair enough. Heavy Metal, Marylynn Masnon, D&D, High-tech crome, Troll Thrash Metal... None of these things make someone lose touch. They are merely the excuse used by those left behind.

But, for those with the propensity for for such extreme detachment and sociopathic thinking, the slightest push in the wrong direction can easily be leveraged into a full on psycho-twinkie

Which brings the conversation back to my original comment...

QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein)
That ranted, if you did want to include a character who blamed his implants for his piss-poor personality and insanity, just use the established Flaws creatively. Oblivious (dazed look as he loses touch with reality), Bad Reputation (distant, uncaring, and cold), Combat Monster (sympathy flew out the window a long time ago), and Bad Karma (nature's vindication against his heretical existance, though more likely self-sabotage for believing that crap) are all examples of ways to reflect a mucked-up personality that you can blame on your insanity.
Nikoli
biggrin.gif
Siege
Said Clone 1 to Clones 5 - 6, "Lock 'n' load boys; we're going in."

Being removed from reality or being socialized into a specific subculture is not an uncommon phenomenon. The Paris Hilton - Nicole Ritchie show was based almost entirely on that concept.

Using an extreme example, if a six year old was suddenly gifted with the strength of a pro-wrestler and then turned loose in his usual play group, I think the kid's perceptions would begin to alter considerably from how he started out.

Navy SEALs are some of the most intensively trained military units available - I highly recommend you not sneak up behind one and yell "boo!"

Do you think the average SEAL operator looks at himself in the same light as he did before he enlisted?

Whether or not a quadrapalegic is aliented from society or feels alienated is a difference of semantics. If the person missing all his arms and legs feels like he has been displaced from the social group, he will displace himself from the group, regardless of how the group treats him.

Extend this hypothetical chain of behavior to someone who is suddenly faster, stronger and altogether "er" than his fellow man. Having pre-existing mental issues certainly facilitates the concept of cyberpsychosis, but taking the example to an extreme, transplanting someone's brain into a robot body, producing a cyborg is going to be one helluva shock and an interesting way to test a person's mental stability.

For all that we argue cyberpsychosis does or doesn't exist, you can apply this same thought process to any sub-group membership. Gangs produce anti-social or outright hostile behavior patterns and belief structures to the world at large, but tends to be protective of the gang or family-collective.

We see this phenomenon in cops, military personnel and so on - expanding the conditional response to include physiological changes and not just social-circumstancial is not unreasonable.

That long-winded drivel notwithstanding, Doc Funk's point about adapting existing Flaws is a good one - obsessions and compulsions abound. "Obsession: must play with spurs" could lead to some awkward questions at a cafe. "Delusion: prone to acting like a cat in combat" could be downright dangerous.

It falls to the GM to enforce scenarios that would exploit flaws - having "Combat Monster" could be really, really bad if the PCs need to break off combat and run like all hell to save their lives.

-Siege
Adarael
I don't feel like writing a huge essay on this subject, because I'm going to have to do that for class in about two weeks anyway, but let me tell you all an interesting little fact...

There are two real classes of thought on cyberware, in terms of the cyberpunk genre and associated sub-theories. It's a question of defining 'human' rather than defining 'cyborg', honestly.

Class A believes that *despite* all the benefits and advantages, cyberware is dehumanizing, mechanizing, and may cause a dangerous degradation of empathy. This is because Class A believers have been influenced by Humanism and Humanist beliefs - namely that humanity has an essential something that sets it apart from machine and animal. They try to avoid calling it a soul, but that's really what they mean. Ergo, anything that replaces the body and enhances the mind is external, and could cause degradation of that essential something that sets them apart. Cyberpunk 2020 uses Class A, humanist beliefs to achieve game balance through cyberpsychosis - there's no sudden line of death, rather, a slow descent into inhumanity.

Class B believes that cyberware is simply a reorganization of physical form, but is not somehow antithetical to the 'human', as 'human' is only what we've chosen as critera to separate ourselves from animal and machine - there is no mystical difference between a sufficiently intelligent machine with a drone body, or a sufficiently advanced animal, and human. At least in terms of capability. This comes out of Transhumanist/Posthumanist belief. Very few games use a Class B balance, because the only 'game balance' is how much money you have, and how much your GM lets you get away with.

Just as a compare and contrast on cyberware theories. These are also massively simplified.

Also:
QUOTE
Navy SEALs are some of the most intensively trained military units available - I highly recommend you not sneak up behind one and yell "boo!"

Do you think the average SEAL operator looks at himself in the same light as he did before he enlisted?


The analogy doesn't really hold, because a large part of the later SEAL training is specifically designed to reinforce the belief that they are superior to the civilian - better and more advanced. They are told this, trained to believe it. A better example would be the Airborne Rangers. They undergo a similar training, but to a drastically lesser extent. They are, in my opinion, much more sociable for it.
Siege
Fair enough - but at the end of the day, do you think the Airborne Ranger considers himself the same as the rank-and-file grunt?

-Siege
Adarael
In terms of ability? No. But from those that I'm friends with, they don't claim to be BETTER PEOPLE than say, me, or others we know. They just claim to be better suited to surviving in harsh conditions, and doing bizzare missions. Which isn't delusional - it's what they do. They've had nothing but respect for, say, the electronics warfare experts they know (USUALLY - there's always an asshole or two) because they've got no ability with that kind of stuff, compared to those that have trained extensively to be good at it.

My point is that knowing you're better at something than another person doesn't mean you have to regard yourself as a superior being. And it doesn't mean you can't acknowledge that others can do things better than you. Which is, at least in CP2020, pretty much the definition of cyberpsychosis. Read Solo of Fortune 2 for more info on that.
mrobviousjosh
QUOTE (mfb)
cyberpsychosis'd make an interesting flaw.

That's kinda what I was thinking, I was just worried it'd get abused. Unless you made it decreases in social situations with others (more cyber a feeling of inferiority, less cyber a feeling of superiority) and make some sort of willpower roll to avoid giving in to the "temptation" of getting more implants. You could make it less points for players depending on the level of cyberware they attain, they must have cyberware to take the flaw, and the point spread could depend on flavor/severity much like allergy or phobia.
Siege
Heh - I used to own all the CP 2020 books before I gave them away.

Cyberpsychosis was fairly narrowly defined in the core books, but a more interesting variant was developed in third-party supplements, most notably by Ianus (I believe?) games which included a supplement on magical rituals and modern day boogeymen as well as sleep deprivation.

Edit: You don't have to believe it, but there is always the occasional asshat who does - which more or less fits with the idea of prior problems being reinforced.

-Siege
Shockwave_IIc
QUOTE (Siege)
Cyberpsychosis was fairly narrowly defined in the core books, but a more interesting variant was developed in third-party supplements, most notably by Ianus (I believe?) games which included a supplement on magical rituals and modern day boogeymen as well as sleep deprivation.

The Bubblegum series and addtional thoughts and effects in it as well.

I know Ianus brought out rules for Vampires and magic, plus a couple of "horror" based supplements ("Sub Attica")
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012