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lorthazar
Balrog, who would make the one in Khazad-dum quake in fear, could certainly handle that. Especially in his Military grade armor and weilding the dikote combat axe. Seeing as how his edged combat is 12 and his strength is some number in the 'that is just wrong' department, as is his body. I told you this was a game that got away that we all play just to have silly fun.

Hell QD would only try the stealth thing becuase that is his style. When drek hits the fan the boy would just use the EMP device and pray the sheilding worked the way it's supposed to.
Kagetenshi
So Balrog would get at most one or two successes and get sliced to pieces (or just fried, since it sounds like he might have the armor to bounce the claws) without damaging a single drone.

And when the drek hits the fan the Medusae are all rolling 9+4d6 for initiative. How many of them get to try to rip your head off before your finger can touch the EMP button?

The basic problem here is that someone was using the tank combat drone as a swarmdrone. Don't get me wrong, they work just fine like that, they're just not reasonably defeatable like that without military-level support and equipment.

~J
Lindt
Dude, give it up. As soon as he takes one sbox of ANY sort of damage its over.
Think about it, if it has an unarmed skill of 12 reach of 1, that means:
Troll has reach 2, but next to no combat pool (mil spec sucks like that)
Drone has reach 1, but gets to toss about 5 points for friends in melee.

On a side note, how likely would it be to take one of those puppys down in repairable condition...... I have a NPC rigger that neers a new toy... ignoring the fact that if there is 1 there are 5 in most cases...
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (Renraku Arcology: Shutdown p80)
All of Deus' drones are rigged to self-destruct if captured or if they stray beyond the arcology walls. The device's power plant ignites, destroying the drone in a violent explosion.


Of course, the violent explosion would be completely contained within the drone's armor, but it means it would be quite the task to capture one, though not totally impossible. Especially difficult considering that in-game there's not much in terms of a good reason for anyone to know about the self-destruct switch. MIJI against Deus I'm not going to bother talking about.

~J

Edit: to add to earlier, Medusae can jump an average of fifteen meters, so there won't be a chance to pause during any of this. Furthermore, they have a Clearsight autosoft, so they'd be rolling nine or ten dice to detect anyone.
lorthazar
Well let's see I dug it up, Ballist 14 Imp 12 for the suit, +3/+2 for the skin, Body of 18(23), Strength of 20, Quickness of 13, an axe that does 23D (it was ruled to be a polearm), Skill of 12, reach of +3 total

Okay since Kale is wise, Balrog stays in the doorway making it so only six of the little monsters get to him at a time. So his target numbers are 8's. Their's are 4s to hit. For him to resist damage I see 3 as his target for the electrical ones. On 23 dice he will consistently have 15-16 successes to soak damage. And that is against their 4 success on average for each Medusae. So I see a lot of crunched drones.

But that is only if he goes the axe route what if he uses the Panther Assault cannon eek.gif


As for QD init of 28+4D6 their best 33 My worst 32 should be fun
Kagetenshi
No, their TNs are 2 to hit. Half 12 Impact against 10S (Stun) for 4S Stun. We'll give Balrog 6 points of combat pool for the first defense, 'cause we're nice. He rolls 18 dice for an average of 2.5 successes, while Medusa #1 rolls 12 dice against a TN of 2 for 10 successes. I'm feeling nice, so let's give Balrog that third success. Seven net successes, so the damage level gets upped to D and then the Power gets upped twice for a net 8D Stun attack after armor. Balrog tries to soak and expects slightly over three successes; we'll be kind and give him four. He's now at M Stun.

Next attack, same thing only Balrog's only rolling twelve dice and his TNs are now 10 instead of 8. He is gone before the third Medusa gets a shot. Karma pool, you say? Well then, he makes it to the third, fourth, or maybe even fifth medusa. He does not hit once, and ends up unconscious on the short road to dead.

And if he uses the PAC, we introduce him to the magic of TN 2 to dodge.

QD might actually have a chance of taking out the ones nearer to him. Again, though, the 15-meter jump will ruin his day rather quickly…

Edit: waitaminute. What kind of EMP is he using? If it's anything that wouldn't get his head ripped off as soon as he entered, it probably wouldn't scratch a lot of the medusae. The ones it would hit would just have to avoid going above Serious to be fine.

~J
Lindt
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
QUOTE (Renraku Arcology: Shutdown p80)
All of Deus' drones are rigged to self-destruct if captured or if they stray beyond the arcology walls. The device's power plant ignites, destroying the drone in a violent explosion.

Mabey you just need to throw a dead troll in Mil spec ontop of it ,let the batteries die and THEN take it away.... yeah...
Kagetenshi
Now that has promise.

~J
lorthazar
I love it when mathmatically challenged people figure odds.

10S minus the Armor and the orthoskin is 3S

Chance of rolling three or better on 1D6 is 66.6~% odds of of rolling a 4 or better are 50%

Target is four to hit him as he has the reach and the allies in combat drive up his target number not down theirs, plus this is a confined space for them but as he has room to back up not for him.


Oh did I forget his trauma damper? and his loads of other goodies?

BTW dodging in that crowded an area is impossible. If it was possible QD would get in and be fine. As for the EMP does it matter anything that frags them is gonna fry the CNC as well. Think like a level 12 skill twitcher

Oh and by the way in case you missed his quickness he gets full combat pool, our karma pools are ridiculous, as is our team pool, and you don't know enough about the character to make any intelligent ascertation. Which expalins half of what you say most of the time
Shanshu Freeman
Keep up the good work, Kage! cool.gif



God this thread is funny! biggrin.gif



<eats popcorn and sits back enjoying the fun>
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (lorthazar)
10S minus the Armor and the orthoskin is 3S

and the allies in combat drive up his target number not down theirs, plus this is a confined space for them but as he has room to back up not for him.


Oh did I forget his trauma damper? and his loads of other goodies?

Oh and by the way in case you missed his quickness he gets full combat pool, our karma pools are ridiculous, as is our team pool, and you don't know enough about the character to make any intelligent ascertation. Which expalins half of what you say most of the time

You're right, I missed the Orthoskin. That changes nothing. I'm almost positive that Friends in Melee drops their TNs as well, but let's take a look at it without that anyway. The Medusae are by no means in a confined space for them.

Now we have 24 dice, TN 8 against 12 dice, TN 4, for 3 1/3 successes against 6 successes. At this point we have a situation where the first Medusa can't reliably damage your Troll tank. There's something you've forgotten, though.

First off, there's no way this kind of combat pool use is sustainable. Second, even if we assume infinite combat pool this is the way it's going to shake out even on the Troll's turn. He will continue getting hit and soaking, but never connecting himself. Eventually a roll will go badly, and the odds are heavily in favour of it going badly for him rather than for them. With three to four passes per turn regardless, you're wormfood, dude.

So let's continue.

We'll say the Troll magically has another six combat pool hidden up his ass. 18 dice, TN 8 against 12 dice, TN 4, for 2.5 expected successes. We'll give him three, which means Medusa 2 fails to do damage as well.

After that, he starts soaking 5D Stun down to Light, which is eaten by the Trauma Damper. If one of them ever manages to get two extra successes he'll take Moderate which will be dropped down to two boxes, but he'll still take the +1 which will drop his expected successes and life expectancy. Even if he's immune to wound mods the two-boxes will stack up whilst he is utterly unable to hit the opposition. What happens is the Medusae back him into a corner and either kill him or, at best, he dies of thirst several days later, still without having scratched one of the Medusae.

Karma pool? GREAT! WOOP-DEE-FUCKING-DOO! Maybe he kills one. Maybe he kills four. Maybe it takes another few hours. He won't even kill off the six that he initially faced.

I love it when people who don't know how to calculate odds lecture me on adding.

QUOTE
BTW  dodging in that crowded an area is impossible.  If it was possible QD would get in and be fine.


Bullshit. Or did I miss the magical talisman of infinite karma pool somewhere?

QUOTE
As for the EMP does it matter anything that frags them is gonna fry the CNC as well. Think like a level 12 skill twitcher


Tell you what, show me where this is in the rulebooks. Then we can talk about how it will destroy the whole roomful.

~J

kevyn668
QUOTE (Shanshu Freeman)
Keep up the good work, Kage! cool.gif



God this thread is funny! biggrin.gif



<eats popcorn and sits back enjoying the fun>

rotfl.gif

We are all sooo geeks. biggrin.gif
Da9iel
Mmmmmm. Popcorn. biggrin.gif
Kagetenshi
Oi, you spectators, can one of you look up the Friends in Melee thing? Thanks.

~J
Da9iel
QUOTE (SR3 p. 122)
The side with the greater number of friends gets a -1 target number modifier for each friend more then their opponents have, to a maximum of -4. The side with the lesser number of friends suffers a +1 target number modifier for each additional friend their opponents have, to a maximum of +4.
kevyn668
Does that mean that it can be up to an 8 point swing? Crap. That's gotta suck.
Da9iel
That would be why we house rule it down to one or the other. It preserves a little more cinematic style while still keeping it somewhat painful.
Kagetenshi
So the Troll initial TN would be 6 for a starting 4 successes, while the Medusa would be going against a 2 for 10 successes. 6 success=7D, which has a 3.833 expected success rate on 23 dice. Two boxes and downhill from there.

~J
Lindt
Eventually the trolls arms fall off from swinging a poleaxe at heavly armored drones. I take it you guys go toe to toe with small dragons too? Besides, the elemental damage would roast you, and even if you ignore stun (bioware is nice like that) it will eventually overflow into physical. Hells, if you take 1 box of stun for each bot you drop, and igore all the modifiers (via pain editor and damage comp) you will ONLY drop 19 before the last on gets you. And in this case a trama dampner works aginst you, driving your target numbers us even faster (so insted of a moderate, you take a light and a light). Face it, short of great form elementals, tactical air strikes, and AV machineguns, this is an instant death sentance.
Kremlin KOA
and that's if I (sorry I mean deus) didn't have active LMGs with APDS in the ceiling mounts. that troll would be spoo. Oh and on the crowd thing the room was roughly a third to half of the B1 floor Deus remodelled tha section fast to keep the UCAS army out
Edward
I would be willing to take them on with a single troll adept tank character (to stand in the doorway forcing them to take him one at a time) a healing mage (to fix the door stop) and a truck load of AV munitions (weapon power at least 5 preferably air timed grenades).

Oh and something reliable guarding me from there flanking mauver.

We worked out they had a self destruct after the first one we met. In fact the explosion nearly killed the character that was in melee with it.

As to MIJI our rigger tried it, he got pulled into the UV host and then booted out scared out of his pants. “What happens when a human attacks an AI in the information universe? Nothing.”

Edward
Da9iel
QUOTE (Edward)
“What happens when a human attacks an AI in the information universe? Nothing.”

Romy?
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (Edward)
I would be willing to take them on with a single troll adept tank character (to stand in the doorway forcing them to take him one at a time) a healing mage (to fix the door stop) and a truck load of AV munitions (weapon power at least 5 preferably air timed grenades).

Stun damage. No doorstop-fixing for the healing mage.

Not to mention the time the Treat spell has to be sustained would result in the Troll being dead before the first heal finished.

~J
Ol' Scratch
Heal works from the moment its cast. It just requires sustaining to be made permanent... if that sustaining is broken before the time elapses, the wound reappears. (Not defending anything in this thread, just pointing that out.)
lorthazar
Did some additional fact checking found some interesting things like the dice for the Taser is 7 and a ranged attack thus target of 6 for in melee, maybe more with all that metal around. Plus any of them at a distance can fire but as a realist I would have to say they would more likely hit the metal monstrousities and not the cermaic covered troll, so 8+. Now this vastly reduces the eefectivenes and lifespane of the medusae. oh and the taser antitheft systems requires a simple action to activate and dispells immediately thus melee with it is out of the question.

God it is good to be a troll
Herald of Verjigorm
Turrets and a half-dozen bees will still make going out the front door suicide. To be mean, a few of those little bee drones could just buzz past the troll, and dose the rest of the team to prepare for the 2 banded mages to stunbolt the troll into oblivion.
Shanshu Freeman
QUOTE (lorthazar @ Nov 17 2004, 11:11 PM)
you don't know enough about the character to make any intelligent ascertation.  Which expalins half of what you say most of the time

how long, in game time have you been playing the character? just curious.

QUOTE (kevyn668)


We are all sooo geeks. 


<nods> biggrin.gif

QUOTE (Da9iel)
Mmmmmm. Popcorn. 


yum yum yum. extra butter, extra salt....






... extra soda pop.


Edward
QUOTE (Da9iel)
QUOTE (Edward @ Nov 17 2004, 10:46 PM)
“What happens when a human attacks an AI in the information universe? Nothing.”

Romy?

yes
lorthazar
Actual balrog is one of our original crew that started three weeks after the books came out. Not my character, but I helped Kale with the improvements over the years since Balrog and Quickdraw are good friends.

The rest of group was:
Wolf Wolf SShaman
Snake Snake Shaman
Spectre Burned out mage
The terror Dwarf samurai
Slash Elf Decker
Steel machine Human Samurai
Shadowjack Human merc
Jonnie human rigger
Ol' Scratch
I've got to ask... but what's a Wolf Wolf and Snake Snake Shaman?
toturi
Snake who is a Snake Shaman, Wolf who is a wolf shaman. Real creative.
lorthazar
maybe not clever in name but i would nopt cross those brothers in magic last i checked both were 13th grade initiates and weilding mojo I don't want to understand.
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein)
Heal works from the moment its cast. It just requires sustaining to be made permanent... if that sustaining is broken before the time elapses, the wound reappears. (Not defending anything in this thread, just pointing that out.)

I know. My point is that successive wounds would cause death before the first heal could be made permanent.

QUOTE (lorthazar)
Did some additional fact checking found some interesting things  like the dice for the Taser is 7 and a ranged attack


You clearly need to do more fact checking, because RA:S p81 clearly indicates that the electric-shock system is neither ranged nor a taser, it is implant weaponry and thus covered by the autosoft. Some Medusae do have an additional taser, so it actually works out even worse than I had indicated. If it only takes a simple action, great, it's doing it twice as much damage.

~J
Fortune
It doesn't matter. His uber-characters are gonna make Deus their bitch.
Kagetenshi
To top it all off, I just remembered the ramming rules. 6D Physical, no armor.

~J
tisoz
What kind of modifiers does the pile of destroyed bots pose?
Kagetenshi
What destroyed bots? Remember, Mr. Übertroll still can't actually hit one of them. Even if he did manage to pull off a hit, at 7S damage before staging (which would be shockingly unlikely) he wouldn't be seriously impairing them.

~J
Shanshu Freeman
QUOTE (lorthazar)
Actual balrog is one of our original crew that started three weeks after the books came out. Not my character, but I helped Kale with the improvements over the years since Balrog and Quickdraw are good friends.

After which books came out?

QUOTE
weilding mojo I don't want to understand.


eek.gif biggrin.gif
bwahahahahahahhahaahaaa oh God, I couldn't help but laugh out loud at this phrase!!!



I imagine it has different connotations in other languages though?

DarkShade
why bother with the entire combat? all medusas are agile and as mindless as required.. they are also heavy.

initiative pass 1: combat troll squares with axe.. lets say he kills one, hell lets say he does a giant cleave and kills 3, just for the wow factor, after pumping himself full of drugs.

now its the medusaes turn.. 200 jump straight at the troll.. literally on top.
troll squashed. wipe feet, recover body parts , make new medusa out of übertroll..
fix damaged medusaes. works with anything more or less mansized regardless of stats. even if they didnt have any armor & half the bod it would still work. while the troll is more or less pinned they can go about disarming him <holding to the axe.. not that it matters as you`d be hard pressed to use a long weapon while pinned.> peeling off his helmet, then peeling off his orthoskin then start the recycle process.

the point is 2000 of nearly anything will kill you, if they attack without value for self preservation and you cant or wont run away.

note: about EMP.. there are loads of discussions about whether EMP would actually do anything to circuitry in SR, consensus seems to be most circuits are optical so emp away, nothing will be harmed. use old fashioned explosives, enough of those will do in any number of drones <use your ally to carry the explosives inside> smile.gif

DS
Crisp
QUOTE (DarkShade)
why bother with the entire combat? all medusas are agile and as mindless as required.. they are also heavy.

initiative pass 1: combat troll squares with axe.. lets say he kills one, hell lets say he does a giant cleave and kills 3, just for the wow factor, after pumping himself full of drugs.

now its the medusaes turn.. 200 jump straight at the troll.. literally on top.
troll squashed. wipe feet, recover body parts , make new medusa out of übertroll..
fix damaged medusaes. works with anything more or less mansized regardless of stats.  even if they didnt have any armor & half the bod it would still work.  while the troll is more or less pinned they can go about disarming him <holding to the axe.. not that it matters as you`d be hard pressed to use a long weapon while pinned.> peeling off his helmet, then peeling off his orthoskin then start the recycle process.

the point is 2000 of nearly anything will kill you, if they attack without value for self preservation and you cant or wont run away.

DS


Notworhty!!
Shanshu Freeman
QUOTE (DarkShade @ Nov 18 2004, 11:16 AM)
note: about EMP.. there are loads of discussions about whether EMP would actually do anything to circuitry in SR, consensus seems to be most circuits are optical so emp away, nothing will be harmed. use old fashioned explosives, enough of those will do in any number of drones <use your ally to carry the explosives inside> smile.gif

DS

Yeah... I thought the official ruling on emps was that it has no effect on cyberware because cyber is optical, etc....

If cyber is safe against emps, why would drones be vulnerable?
Lindt
Its not just cyber. Post crash, most of the computers went to optical (faster and lighter) and its generally assumed that anything short of full blown atomic blast type EMP dosent do jack anymore. Thats not to say however, that fun stuff like zapper rockets or jabberwocky missles dont make short work of them.
lorthazar
EMP would not fry the chips granted but it would majorly mess up all those electric motors smile.gif
Edward
You need a very big EMP to fry an electric motor.

I don’t know how an EMP would interact with a superconducting motor witch is probably available and possibly in common use by 2050.

Edward
Shanshu Freeman
QUOTE (lorthazar)
EMP would not fry the chips granted but it would majorly mess up all those electric motors smile.gif

O.o
o.O
KarmaInferno
Forget the motors, the emps should nuke the power supply.

Even optical chips need electric power to generate the light.

In cyberware the "power supply" as silly as it sounds is your body.

...

Shouldn't that make you feel weak or cold every time you do something like fire an eye laser or the like?


-karma
lorthazar
Actually any electric motor will have to have wiring and a magnet. That is just the rule. It works the exact opposite of a generator. Now and EMP would overload the motor (as well as the smart materials) by making the powers sources dump everything at once and then adding it own impulse on top just for fun. Wiring melts then catches the insulators on fire. It get worse if it's myomer as all that current will be telling it to contract and expand at the same time ripping it to shreds.

Lovely thought isn't it.
Edward
Eye laser no as that item has a battery (unlike almost every other pese of wear) shock pads are the same.

It would explain why your still fatigued from running on your cyber legs. An interesting item of cyber wear would be a battery to run your other wear without draining your bodily reserves (negates fatigue for prolonged physical activity if you have cyber motivation (replaced limbs or muscle replacement)

Look at my post on the current EMP thread for my full take.

Edward
Kagetenshi
But an EMP powerful enough to do that to any significant number of the drones in that room won't be able to be carried in, certainly not stealthily, and also won't be safe to be around when it goes off.

~J
lorthazar
You'd be surprised Kagee-boy, you'd be very unpleasantly surprised.
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