Full Version: Hydraulic Jacks: ECU Cost?
| QUOTE (Tarantula) | ||
As I said previously, yes, I would rule that you do Half the normal essence cost and half the ecu and essence for the other leg. While it was assumed the cost is per limb, why do other mods such as cyberfins specifically state that they are per limb? If HJ was per limb, shouldn't it have stated (per limb) as well? |
Honestly, never used CyberFins before, but I still think the requirements for HJ in a CyberLeg aren't that harsh (per Limb), even the essence hit is minimal.
| QUOTE (GrinderTheTroll) |
| Honestly, never used CyberFins before, but I still think the requirements for HJ in a CyberLeg aren't that harsh (per Limb), even the essence hit is minimal. |
Having used cyberfins in the past before or not is moot. The point is that they are specifically listed as being listed in a per limb cost. Hydraulic jacks however are a you have it your you don't sort of implant. You don't have the option to only have one leg, and the values listed are for both legs.
| QUOTE (Tarantula) |
| Having used cyberfins in the past before or not is moot. The point is that they are specifically listed as being listed in a per limb cost. |
Terrific! I've never used them before, I was unware they were listed as such, so I could not initally realate to your observation.
| QUOTE |
| Hydraulic jacks however are a you have it your you don't sort of implant. You don't have the option to only have one leg, and the values listed are for both legs. |
Correct, but HJ on the ECU table still doesn't explicitly say that cost is per CyberLeg (as you could have one CyberLeg and one Regular) or for the pair. I see both arguments and could see it argued either way.
| QUOTE (GrinderTheTroll) |
| Correct, but HJ on the ECU table still doesn't explicitly say that cost is per CyberLeg (as you could have one CyberLeg and one Regular) or for the pair. I see both arguments and could see it argued either way. |
While it doesn't explicitly define whether the cost is per leg or for the pair. The previous usage of cyberware that uses up two limbs is that it is listed in a paired basis, without the option to purchase it for only one limb. Flex hands is a good example (even if the option to get it isn't available with cyberhands). Being that they modify both your hands (as HJ does both your legs) when you purchase it, it affects both. (As the HJ purchase with cyberlegs should affect both.) I too can see both sides of the arguement, just my side offers a bit more balance for the small amount of benefit hydraulic jacks provides. I'm glad you can see both sides too, now come to the DARK SIDE!
However, Flex Hands are not included in that list. Besides, Flex Hands and Hydraulic Jacks need not be installed in only 2 hands or 2 feet. All the Hands and Jacks imply is that they are installed in plurals. You could have 3 hands, do your Flex Hands come any more cheaper?
| QUOTE (toturi) |
| However, Flex Hands are not included in that list. Besides, Flex Hands and Hydraulic Jacks need not be installed in only 2 hands or 2 feet. All the Hands and Jacks imply is that they are installed in plurals. You could have 3 hands, do your Flex Hands come any more cheaper? |
I was using flex hands because it is accepted that you don't purchase them twice. Which translates over to the list, simply because its on the list doesn't mean that now you suddenly need to buy twice the amount for the same benefit.
And no, why would having to replace more bones make a modification cheaper?
Exactly, so how can you can claim to know how many hands or legs must Flex Hands or Hydraulic Jacks are installed in by default? What if the guy had 4 legs?
| QUOTE (toturi) |
| Exactly, so how can you can claim to know how many hands or legs must Flex Hands or Hydraulic Jacks are installed in by default? What if the guy had 4 legs? |
Because, barring extraneous circumstances, meta-humans that can get those upgrades have 2 hands and 2 feet.
Metahumans aren't the only ones who can get those implants.
Sorry, (like what Doc Funk said) perhaps my point might have been better if I said "What if it had 4 legs?"
| QUOTE (toturi) |
| Sorry, (like what Doc Funk said) perhaps my point might have been better if I said "What if it had 4 legs?" |
IMO, I'd say double the cost (you're using twice as many parts), and keep the essence loss the same (you have more tissue to your body, but you are losing more, so it balances). If you already happened to replace all 4 legs with cyber legs, well, i'd say 3.25 ECU per leg for level 5 jacks. And a straight .25 essence on top of the 4 total already spent in the legs. If you had 2 cyber legs and 2 normal legs. Normal essence cost for the normal legs, + the essence cost for the cyber legs, as well as 3.25 ECU cost for each cyber leg. 3 cyber and one normal....... You get the picture, its not THAT hard to figure out.
Tarantula, you said:
| QUOTE |
| IMO, I'd say double the cost (you're using twice as many parts), and keep the essence loss the same (you have more tissue to your body, but you are losing more, so it balances). If you already happened to replace all 4 legs with cyber legs, well, i'd say 3.25 ECU per leg for level 5 jacks. And a straight .25 essence on top of the 4 total already spent in the legs. If you had 2 cyber legs and 2 normal legs. Normal essence cost for the normal legs, + the essence cost for the cyber legs, as well as 3.25 ECU cost for each cyber leg. 3 cyber and one normal....... You get the picture, its not THAT hard to figure out. |
I disagree. You have 2 arms and 2 legs, right? Doesn't it cost more essence to get stuff installed in BOTH your arms and legs, even though you "have more tissue"? If you use that assumption, it wouldn't cost any extra for a 4-legger to get all 4 cyberlegs, as opposed to just 2...
Just my opinion...
| QUOTE (Tarantula) | ||
IMO, I'd say double the cost (you're using twice as many parts), and keep the essence loss the same (you have more tissue to your body, but you are losing more, so it balances). If you already happened to replace all 4 legs with cyber legs, well, i'd say 3.25 ECU per leg for level 5 jacks. And a straight .25 essence on top of the 4 total already spent in the legs. If you had 2 cyber legs and 2 normal legs. Normal essence cost for the normal legs, + the essence cost for the cyber legs, as well as 3.25 ECU cost for each cyber leg. 3 cyber and one normal....... You get the picture, its not THAT hard to figure out. |
Ah, but the game mechanics/description says Hydraulic Jacks. It does not specify how many. How do you know those things weren't designed for our 4 legged friends first? And that actually you have to divide the 6.5 by 4? Or that hydraulic jacks were actually meant to be used on octopus and you divide the space cost fby 8!
You assume that the Hydraulic Jacks are meant for 2 legs, but I think the list means per leg becuase using any an assumption can lead to the above situation.
| QUOTE (Shrapnel) |
| I disagree. You have 2 arms and 2 legs, right? Doesn't it cost more essence to get stuff installed in BOTH your arms and legs, even though you "have more tissue"? If you use that assumption, it wouldn't cost any extra for a 4-legger to get all 4 cyberlegs, as opposed to just 2... Just my opinion... |
Let me clarify. Yes, we have 2 arms and 2 legs. I thought he was talking about something with 2 arms and 4 legs. Thus having more body overall, and the hydraulic jacks in all four legs taking up about the same percentage of body as it would in a 2 armed and 2 legged persons body.
Toturi, can you tell me why it does not state (per leg) similar to how cyberfins state (per hand/foot)?
EDIT: Swim fins need both hands and feet to have them installed. Unlike most other cybernetic implants which are either hand/s or foot/feet. By the way, how many hands do the hand razors get implanted in if it was supposed to be for both hands, wouldn't it be specified?
| QUOTE (toturi) |
| EDIT: Swim fins need both hands and feet to have them installed. Unlike most other cybernetic implants which are either hand/s or foot/feet. By the way, how many hands do the hand razors get implanted in if it was supposed to be for both hands, wouldn't it be specified? |
As I don't have my book with me ATM I'm going of memory. I'm fairly certain that handrazors specifies in its description that it is per hand, hydraulic jacks never does in description, table, or anywhere else.
No, it doesn't. Handblade is per hand. Razors just mention fingers, not hands.
...
You are right that it just says under the users fingers. I would be quite happy to argue that that means all your fingers, and you can't purchase it twice in order to get them in your other hand, as they're already there, with whatever possible damage bonus it might give factored in.
Doesn't say how many fingers. Two is also fingers. Just as 10 is also fingers. I can take it to be five. You are welcome to your ten fingered hand razors.
BTW, did you really need over 20 hours to come up with a counter argument? You did know you could have just edited your previous post, didn't you?
BTW, did you really need over 20 hours to come up with a counter argument? You did know you could have just edited your previous post, didn't you?
| QUOTE (toturi) |
| Doesn't say how many fingers. Two is also fingers. Just as 10 is also fingers. I can take it to be five. You are welcome to your ten fingered hand razors. BTW, did you really need over 20 hours to come up with a counter argument? You did know you could have just edited your previous post, didn't you? |
I did actually, and then I realized this was midway down the second page and you hadn't replied, so I posted the reply and edited out the previous post.
Yes, 2, or 3, or 20 (if you had them) are all fingers. I'm going off the fact that they are rather small, which is why they have such a low damage for having 1, 2, or 10 of them.
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