For small apartments and houses your best bet is to look in your local paper -- many run 'Home' sections with such floorplans printed. Also take a look at any real estate or rental magazines out there.
There is a fairly decent open source program called AutoRealm which I use for detailed, grid-based maps -- though for Demolition Run I just used MS Paint. AutoRealm is not super-easy to use, though, and sometimes bugs up, so save often.
AutoRealm works for both square grid and hex grid maps, by the way.
Full Version: maps or prints
Deleted -- double post
| QUOTE (bitrunner) |
| btw, i will be shutting down my site on the 3rd - so grab what you want! |
GAH!!! NOOOOOOOO!!!
...And me 8000 miles from my hard drive!
Will anyone be mining and hosting those files?
| QUOTE (bitrunner) |
| btw, i will be shutting down my site on the 3rd - so grab what you want! |
GAH!!! NOOOOOOOO!!!
...And me 8000 miles from my hard drive!
Will anyone be mining and hosting those files?
If given permission, I’d gladly host them.
~J
~J
host away - i've got wind last week that our new corporate office (we were recently bought by a bigger fish) is going to start up the holy grail of developing a website again, so i want to get the stuff off of there before they start pokin' around and asking "hey! what's this!!??" 
btw, got more stuff - as mentioned, i've got a full container ship (working on the deck plans) and recently got some construction vehicles, like a backhoe, bulldozer, dump truck, etc...
btw, got more stuff - as mentioned, i've got a full container ship (working on the deck plans) and recently got some construction vehicles, like a backhoe, bulldozer, dump truck, etc...
Ok, just downloaded everything that was there. I'll toss it up sometime in the next week or two.
Actually, if you wanted I could even give you your own little subdirectory of SotSW.net to play around with.
~J
Actually, if you wanted I could even give you your own little subdirectory of SotSW.net to play around with.
~J
Your forum still f*cking hates me Kage. Almost a year now and I still can't access it!
What is it doing to you?
~J
~J
Not letting me log in. I remember registering when you first started it, but since then it won't let me in, nor will it let me re-register (unless I use another email address maybe, but I don't want to do that).
I notice that I am not listed as a member, but it specifically disallows my email.
I've tried numerous times, and have brought this up with you before, to no avail.
Maybe it's just fate!
I notice that I am not listed as a member, but it specifically disallows my email.
I've tried numerous times, and have brought this up with you before, to no avail.
Maybe it's just fate!
Interesting. I have no memory of this, so if you brought it up to me, well, I have no idea what was up with my brain at the time. Your username may have vanished when we changed boards sometime last year.
I'm going to change something; give a shot at reregistering and let me know how it goes.
~J
I'm going to change something; give a shot at reregistering and let me know how it goes.
~J
Seems to work now. The appearance has changed since the last attempt. Maybe it was the bbtech skin that was the hassle. It wasn't allowing me to enter a user name, nor would it accept the email I listed.
D'oh. I somehow misspelled my username!
Any way to delete the Fotune account and I'll do it over?
D'oh. I somehow misspelled my username!
Any way to delete the Fotune account and I'll do it over?
Of course, this is all hugely on topic!
Fixed. The username-refusal was indeed a BBTech error, and one that we've been lazy about fixing (as the suggested solution is to "delete and reinstall the forum software".
~J
~J
Still problems. Taken to PM.
We now return you to your regulary scheduled thread.
We now return you to your regulary scheduled thread.
Bump!
Oh, come on! You know it's gonna have a new thread in a month or so anyway...
Thanos
Oh, come on! You know it's gonna have a new thread in a month or so anyway...
Thanos
You know, I hate to be a dick - well, actually, I don't - but if this is a crusade, as you say, perhaps you could be contributing to it yourself by doing more than bumping a thread.
Years ago, when I wanted to start a Shadowrun magazine, I didn't sit around asking people what I should do or if they'd help for months on end. I asked a few people if they'd help, solicited ideas for a short while from the general public [at that time, on ShadowRN, before Dumpshock, before Deep Resonance, before a lot of things] and then I did it.
So do something. Sketch up some ideas that the graphically talented people could turn into computer-generated maps. Compile a list of stuff that /has/ been mapped out in FASA/FanPro books, and figure out alternate uses for some of them. Look around for d20 Modern products or PDFs or freebies that contain maps, and make a list of links to the ones that may be useful for Shadowrun. Something. Anything but another "bump."
Years ago, when I wanted to start a Shadowrun magazine, I didn't sit around asking people what I should do or if they'd help for months on end. I asked a few people if they'd help, solicited ideas for a short while from the general public [at that time, on ShadowRN, before Dumpshock, before Deep Resonance, before a lot of things] and then I did it.
So do something. Sketch up some ideas that the graphically talented people could turn into computer-generated maps. Compile a list of stuff that /has/ been mapped out in FASA/FanPro books, and figure out alternate uses for some of them. Look around for d20 Modern products or PDFs or freebies that contain maps, and make a list of links to the ones that may be useful for Shadowrun. Something. Anything but another "bump."
...and, no one has sent me any special requests for maps...
one of the ones that was listed was a dockside map - i drew up a pier with warehouses, container crates, trucks, cranes, forklifts, and a cargo ship specifically for the person that asked for it, and i never got a response back that he wanted it...
one of the ones that was listed was a dockside map - i drew up a pier with warehouses, container crates, trucks, cranes, forklifts, and a cargo ship specifically for the person that asked for it, and i never got a response back that he wanted it...
That's because we want everything. 
While my attempt to spontaneously generate maps died horribly, I'm still fully competent in turning markups into CAD files. If anyone wants to sketch out a building with rough dimensions and send it to me in whatever form, I'd be more than glad to clean it up, etc.
And please, enough with the bumps. The thread clearly checked the "Do not resuscitate" box.
~J
And please, enough with the bumps. The thread clearly checked the "Do not resuscitate" box.
~J
We're just reminding you to host the maps on SotSW.
Working on it now!
~J
Right, rather misleadingly the entire contents of BitRunner's old collection is now available here (or will be within minutes), not just the maps. I hope to organize it (and put up a real page; sound familiar yet?) soon.
~J
~J
The dreaded Soon™!
| QUOTE |
| You know, I hate to be a dick - well, actually, I don't - but if this is a crusade, as you say, perhaps you could be contributing to it yourself by doing more than bumping a thread. |
Now I haven't read every post you've made but from the ones I've seen I've never seen you go out of your way to be a dick. Yes you've come back at personal attacks and have taken people to task for faulty logic, but I've never seen you be a dick from the get go....
| QUOTE |
| So do something. Sketch up some ideas that the graphically talented people could turn into computer-generated maps. Compile a list of stuff that /has/ been mapped out in FASA/FanPro books, and figure out alternate uses for some of them. Look around for d20 Modern products or PDFs or freebies that contain maps, and make a list of links to the ones that may be useful for Shadowrun. Something. Anything but another "bump." |
Well now I would absolutely love to catalog all the FASA/FanPro maps generated in various books. One small flaw. I would have to own them all. Now at one time I did own everything up to Tir NanOg but divorce and several moves leaves only the most recent books. Retasking them would be relatively easy.
If you or anyone else has these files scanned or other wise on disk I will gladly organise and index them. Or if any one wants to lend me their books I will have any maps in them scanned organised, indexed then submitted to FanPro for possible pdf or book.
Yeah. That last bit sounds good. Send 'em UPS with insurance. I'll send them back the same way. Due to my schedule it will take about two weeks to get the maps scanned. Maybe more if there are a lot of maps. (Shut Down sounds like it might have more than a few)
Questions about two of your suggestions.
1) Are we discounting this thread as a list of links?
2)By sketch up some ideas are you referring to the offer bitrunner has made?. How much detail do I need to include. Can I just write it out or is some sort of sketch needed? What's the turn around time? I have poached the map from the latest SR Missions for my current run. Most likely I won't need another map for two months easily. How long is his offer good for? I guess that question is really for bitrunner...
| QUOTE |
| A print book with a bunch of brand new maps? Slim to none. A PDF book with old/updated maps and some new ones, much more likely. |
Since you've mentioned it can we assume that this idea has been at least discussed within the halls of FanPro?
Book of maps?
Try this... http://www.lpjdesign.com/DevilsWorkshop/Mo...ernDayMaps.html
The reviews are less than stellar.
This book apparently has only maps. Urban Arcana looks to have modern maps but also has well a game system to go with it in the same book. Not really what I'm looking for. Also look at "d20 Menace Manual" again not just maps.
My crusade is not really to keep this thread going indefinitely but just until such time as a pdf or book is published by FanPro or another company that will carry out the project in a quality manner.
Thanos
| QUOTE (Thanos007) |
| Maybe more if there are a lot of maps. (Shut Down sounds like it might have more than a few) |
Almost none. RA:S had a tiny amount of text available for each floor. IIRC, about the same as the original Seattle Sourcebook.
Also, I seem to recall a fan project to map out the Arc, but never got it done. Not that I blame them. It would be insanely difficult to do it without several types of engineering training, and if you have the training, who wants to do their job for recreation?
That said, It makes running in the ARC very hard on the GM
That was me behind it.
I quickly learned two things:
First: in my job I have, among other things, ended up CADding up most of seventeen floors of a hospital with two layouts. This was the first or second biggest job (in terms of money and importance, so there may have been others with greater physical scopes, but you get the idea) that our company has ever had. In terms of floor area, this probably comes out (in total) to maybe a quarter of the first floor of the Arc. Probably less.
Second: I do not have a sufficient grasp of what a building of that size should be laid out like. I probably can't make a terribly accurate one, but I can at least fake a ten-story office building. I don't even think I can at this point come up with an entire first floor I'd be happy with for the Arc.
I'm still planning to give it another shot someday, and at least get a few floors done, but the first floor alone could well be a multi-month full-time job. We don't need it to meet code, or pass inspection, or have construction materials that can actually produce what we develop, but that just cuts the task down from a matter of years. I would not be surprised if the full Arc would take dozens or hundreds of man-years just to design.
~J
I quickly learned two things:
First: in my job I have, among other things, ended up CADding up most of seventeen floors of a hospital with two layouts. This was the first or second biggest job (in terms of money and importance, so there may have been others with greater physical scopes, but you get the idea) that our company has ever had. In terms of floor area, this probably comes out (in total) to maybe a quarter of the first floor of the Arc. Probably less.
Second: I do not have a sufficient grasp of what a building of that size should be laid out like. I probably can't make a terribly accurate one, but I can at least fake a ten-story office building. I don't even think I can at this point come up with an entire first floor I'd be happy with for the Arc.
I'm still planning to give it another shot someday, and at least get a few floors done, but the first floor alone could well be a multi-month full-time job. We don't need it to meet code, or pass inspection, or have construction materials that can actually produce what we develop, but that just cuts the task down from a matter of years. I would not be surprised if the full Arc would take dozens or hundreds of man-years just to design.
~J
you need to have the task broken up more...have a floor be defined by x grids or quadrants.
next, develop some proto-quadrants - office, living, support, etc...
last, throw it all into the computer and randomly generate the floors...or, for quick floors, where a GM doesn't want a fully detailed floor, you just print out a couple copies of the proto-quadrants and fit them together, rotate as necessary for variety, match up the hallways (if designed right) and place them edge to edge - use dice to randomize if necessary...
that's how i'd do it...
not to trivialize the problem, but i think it is simpler than proposed and maybe only a year to develop...as you said, it doesn't need to be totally technically accurate, just "make sense" like have bathrooms and such...
next, develop some proto-quadrants - office, living, support, etc...
last, throw it all into the computer and randomly generate the floors...or, for quick floors, where a GM doesn't want a fully detailed floor, you just print out a couple copies of the proto-quadrants and fit them together, rotate as necessary for variety, match up the hallways (if designed right) and place them edge to edge - use dice to randomize if necessary...
that's how i'd do it...
not to trivialize the problem, but i think it is simpler than proposed and maybe only a year to develop...as you said, it doesn't need to be totally technically accurate, just "make sense" like have bathrooms and such...
| QUOTE (bitrunner) |
one of the ones that was listed was a dockside map - i drew up a pier with warehouses, container crates, trucks, cranes, forklifts, and a cargo ship specifically for the person that asked for it, and i never got a response back that he wanted it... |
I'm not the person who asked for it, but I want it! As it turns out, my next run is going to take place in a warehouse on the docks, so a good map would be great to have.
Was this one of the maps you posted for download earlier? I grabbed those but I didn't see it there.
I suppose that is possible for the higher floors, and I do think that they'll be easier. Nonetheless, the bottom floor is a chaotic and nonstandard mess. Zoo? Theme park? Monorail station? I don't think any of those will lend themselves to effective reuse of data. Also, unless we assume that the Arc is shoddily designed, peopleflow will have to be considered, security features designed and incorporated in an unobtrusive fashion (cover, lines of fire, chokepoints, etc.)…
Basically, the problem is that I'm a perfectionist. I may be able to give a go on dead ends longer than twenty feet, but after thirty or forty I start feeling ritually unclean.
~J
Basically, the problem is that I'm a perfectionist. I may be able to give a go on dead ends longer than twenty feet, but after thirty or forty I start feeling ritually unclean.
~J
You could check West Edmonton Mall's floor plan for some ideas for the 1st floor. Having been there (As a kid, anyway) It has most of the stuff in floor 1 of the Arc. Of course, you would have to make it a lot bigger, and that's just one floor.
Then there are the HUGE parking floors, and a few floors with fusion plants. And multi-floor factories. Helipads. Cafaterias. Day-cares, Grade-, High-, and Post-Secondary-School facilities. Several Hospitals. Just thinking of the elevatering is a headache. Whole floors of aquaculture equipment; the grow-op from hell. Recycling centers and sewage treatment. Holding tanks and pipes for the nastier chemicals. The logistics of this place need a huge loading dock (Parking Floor?), or small railyard (Attached to the mass transit system?). Add in all the guns, barriers, sensors and cameras in the sec system, which was badass in the origional specs. Fire control stations with hoses, axes and oxy masks. Finally, housing for everyone who lives there, from bachelor pad barracks to upper management penthouses.
There is a reason the Arc had a crapload of computing power and the SCRIE program. It needed it to function.
This thing is a carless vertical town or small city, not a building. Good luck Kage.
And this is all before Dues came along. At least little kids would think HUMAN if they were making the mods. Oh yes, our Insane AI had weirded out otaku kids giving him ideas. Welcome to architect hell
(Edit - I just had the idea of Our Friend, The Computer using the aquaculture floors for an actual grow op. It is/was studying human reactions, after all.)
Then there are the HUGE parking floors, and a few floors with fusion plants. And multi-floor factories. Helipads. Cafaterias. Day-cares, Grade-, High-, and Post-Secondary-School facilities. Several Hospitals. Just thinking of the elevatering is a headache. Whole floors of aquaculture equipment; the grow-op from hell. Recycling centers and sewage treatment. Holding tanks and pipes for the nastier chemicals. The logistics of this place need a huge loading dock (Parking Floor?), or small railyard (Attached to the mass transit system?). Add in all the guns, barriers, sensors and cameras in the sec system, which was badass in the origional specs. Fire control stations with hoses, axes and oxy masks. Finally, housing for everyone who lives there, from bachelor pad barracks to upper management penthouses.
There is a reason the Arc had a crapload of computing power and the SCRIE program. It needed it to function.
This thing is a carless vertical town or small city, not a building. Good luck Kage.
And this is all before Dues came along. At least little kids would think HUMAN if they were making the mods. Oh yes, our Insane AI had weirded out otaku kids giving him ideas. Welcome to architect hell
(Edit - I just had the idea of Our Friend, The Computer using the aquaculture floors for an actual grow op. It is/was studying human reactions, after all.)
| QUOTE (Club) |
| You could check West Edmonton Mall's floor plan for some ideas for the 1st floor. Having been there (As a kid, anyway) It has most of the stuff in floor 1 of the Arc. Of course, you would have to make it a lot bigger, and that's just one floor. |
Oh man, I've been to West Edmonton Mall a few years ago for a friend's wedding, that place had everything crammed into it. I mean how many other malls have two movie theatres AND an IMAX theatre? Oh yeah there's also an ice skating rink, water park, amusement park, hotel, several nightclubs (wasn't that great), bowling alley, oh yeah, a water park with dolphins AND a mini submarine for some weird underwater tour, and large entertainment arcade place (kinda like Dave and Buster's). Oh yeah, there's also a small casino, and the countless stores in there and multiple food courts... Plus, there's a gun range though the entrance is only from the outside of the mall... ok, I'll quit rambling about that nightmare of a place...
I definitely recommend looking at the floor plan for that place too.
| QUOTE |
| 1) Are we discounting this thread as a list of links? |
I don't think a thread is a quality permament resource, especially as it's shown time and time again that people do not search old threads.
If you want something easy and quick, setup a http://del.icio.us bookmark set for Shadowrun-Related Maps.
| QUOTE |
| 2)By sketch up some ideas are you referring to the offer bitrunner has made?. |
I meant in general; there are several here [including myself] that are more than capable of producing maps. I personally don't have a lot of interest in the large-scale maps you're looking for - I tend to think that level of planning is overkill, and I tend not to work on "fun" projects that, well, aren't things I consider good for gaming.
For a small fee, I'll do custom maps in the style of typical Shadowrun maps, presuming I get to keep the copyright. I don't do a ton of map work [my latest were published in Emergency Response 2 for the Silver Age Sentinels game line] but doing a handful of Shadowrun-related maps for petty cash could be fun.
| QUOTE |
| How much detail do I need to include. Can I just write it out or is some sort of sketch needed? What's the turn around time? |
With a rough sketch, I can turn around a map in a couple of days, currently. Without a sketch it will, obviously, take longer. Personally, I prefer to work from a sketch - no idea what BitRunner does.
| QUOTE | ||
Since you've mentioned it can we assume that this idea has been at least discussed within the halls of FanPro? |
It has been discussed, but nothing final has been decided.
I've got alot of maps that I've worked on in the past that are full scale. You'd have to find a printer to print them but they're full scale. I've got them all posted for fan pro commandos. They're scale size for the Ral Partha 25mm mini's. I think I've got around 20 maps so far. All you have to do is become a commando to access them for free in Visio format. The Visio viewer if free as well. I don't have as much free time right now but if someone decides to setup a Dumpshock Map server I'd be willing to upload what I have. Otherwise the only way you can access them is by becoming a commando. I have to say though Visio is the bomb. Expensive but the bomb none the less. How does one "obtain" dumpshock space for Shadowrun material?
I've got a map collection linked above. If you're interested, I could toss them up.
~J
~J
Does anyone know anything about copyrighting. I would just like to copyright them so they can't be sold on ebay. I saw one of word man's documents for sale up there for 2 dollars. It kind of hacked me off hopefully Word man was the one doing the selling. What do I need to do to copyright the maps?
You don't need to do anything; you automatically own the copyright on something when you create it.
Indeed. You can strengthen that copyright by adding a little "Copyright kryton" (or the copyright symbol; note that © holds no legal weight).
Edit: correction: the letter c or C enclosed in parentheses holds no legal weight. The board, on the other hand, converts it to the actual (and proper) symbol. The word "copyright" is still valid.
~J
Edit: correction: the letter c or C enclosed in parentheses holds no legal weight. The board, on the other hand, converts it to the actual (and proper) symbol. The word "copyright" is still valid.
~J
Hey Adam how do I make a "Map only page for Dumpshock". That might be worth the time to see if I could get folks to post maps ect in a "map resource". I wonder how popular that would be. Dumpshock has a nice front end and alot of traffic. How much does it cost to post a site on Dumpshock. My ISP has pissed me off for the last time so I'm looking to cut my space go. How much do you charge for dumpshock? I enjoy wargamming and really enjoy making maps. I think it comes from the fact that I can't draw. The fact that I can bring Mini's from lifeless silver to animated through primer and paint is kind of fun. Maps are a similar kind of fun. Computers are great for someone with no artistic ability at all. Robo hasn't been too interested in engaging the material posted on the site and there have only been around 10 to 20 downloads per groups of map. I think having a repository for maps and model buiding would fun. Painting mini's keeps me sane. Do you think that would be Dumpshock material?
I wonder how many Shadowrunners play warhammer fantasy warhammer 40K? Warhammer Ancients? Also don't forget that Judge Dredd is coming out in January/Febuary. It's going to have card stock buildings, cars, streets and gangers. Having Judge dredd show up to arrest some runners would probably freak them out a bit!
The easiest and cheapest way to establish proof of copyright is to print them out, label them 'copyright 2005 [insert name here]', and send them to yourself via registered mail (keeping them safe and unopened upon receipt). Remember, copyright is automatic. It's how you can prove it that matters.
There's probably an electronic equivalent, but I'm not familiar with the legal ins-and-outs of that environment enough to recommend one.
There's probably an electronic equivalent, but I'm not familiar with the legal ins-and-outs of that environment enough to recommend one.
Given our recent migration issues, we're not looking at hosting any new pages right now. Hosting is free, however we typically only accept pre-existing sites that wish to migrate to Dumpshock, as opposed to brand new ones.
Hey Kage any chance for getting a universal front end on your site? If you could put a nice front end and may tie your forums together into one coherent entity I'd be more than happy to upload the maps to you. Right now the page isn't clearly put together. Not that it's a bad site it just needs a little tidying up. After that I'd be interested in uploading my maps.
Just to clarify, I have no interface to upload one's own maps from the web and have no plans for one at this time. I would, however, be happy to upload maps sent to me.
Regarding a front page and some organization, it's coming. I'll let you know when it arrives if you're still looking for hosting then.
~J
Regarding a front page and some organization, it's coming. I'll let you know when it arrives if you're still looking for hosting then.
~J
| QUOTE |
| If you want something easy and quick, setup a http://del.icio.us bookmark set for Shadowrun-Related Maps |
Interesting.
| QUOTE |
| I meant in general; there are several here [including myself] that are more than capable of producing maps. I personally don't have a lot of interest in the large-scale maps you're looking for - I tend to think that level of planning is overkill, and I tend not to work on "fun" projects that, well, aren't things I consider good for gaming |
You've never had a shoot out in a mall or large office building? Not one one the docks? If your referring to the Oil Refinery thing, it does have to be that. Just any large manufacturing plant with multiple buildings with cat walks. (Cat walks and ladders make knock back worth using) We can refine this more (no pun intended)
Define small fee.
Thanos
| QUOTE |
| You've never had a shoot out in a mall or large office building? Not one one the docks? If your referring to the Oil Refinery thing, it does have to be that. Just any large manufacturing plant with multiple buildings with cat walks. (Cat walks and ladders make knock back worth using) We can refine this more (no pun intended) |
Sure, but I typically don't want a map of the whole thing. I use a map when there's a specific situation encounter [For example, a meet in a bar where there's going to be an ambush, and "terrain" is important."] - but for Random Store that they may happen to duck into, either a generic map or a "It looks like a typical Old Navy. Watch out for the fitting room drones."
| QUOTE |
| Define small fee. |
Under $100; probably $50 or so for a medium-sized map.
| QUOTE (Adam) | ||||
It has been discussed, but nothing final has been decided. |
If something does come about, I suggest that the maps in the back of the origional Seattle Sourcebook get a high priority. I suppose they weren't in New Seattle to keep the page count down, but they (Or updates) really should have been in there.
BTW, I was flipping through said maps last night, and OMFG the Arc is even bigger than I remembered. That's two transit stations in the thing! Also, the mass transit (Monorail) system for downtown is useless. One circle around maybe a couple hundred blocks.
Well here it is. You know you want it. My list of map sites.
http://del.icio.us/Thanos007
Just Wish I could figure out tags and how to link to the site with out actually going in to my account. Any suggestions or help? Also if you know of any great MODERN day free maps sites please let me know and if I like 'em I'll post 'em
Thanos
Would have had it up sooner but computer probs and rl kicked me in the ass.
http://del.icio.us/Thanos007
Just Wish I could figure out tags and how to link to the site with out actually going in to my account. Any suggestions or help? Also if you know of any great MODERN day free maps sites please let me know and if I like 'em I'll post 'em
Thanos
Would have had it up sooner but computer probs and rl kicked me in the ass.
Here are some links to maps from d20 Modern products. This way you can get the maps without buying a book for a system you may not like.
d20 Modern Menace Manual map gallery:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20mo...ticle/20030909b
Urban arcana map gallery:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20mo...ticle/20030619a
d20 Modern Menace Manual map gallery:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20mo...ticle/20030909b
Urban arcana map gallery:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20mo...ticle/20030619a
I have looked at those. What I'm looking for are B/W maps that will print at home easily. Has anyone tried to print these out? How do they reproduce?
Thanos
Thanos
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