Full Version: The magic bullet?
Also, wouldn't it be difficult to keep the ice underwater?
No because [the ice] is attached to the heat exchange veins that froze it in the first place. It would actually help relieve some of the pressure if done right. But I think BitBasher's killed the deep water icocology. It would have to be shallow or partially submerged.
Yeah, I cant think of a good way around the pressure thing, but ice made from water is unique in that it expands when frozen. If you could use another liquid instead of water, one that contracts when it freezes, that could work fine, and at deep depths the ice should be self sustaining where it's very cold.
Doesn't isopropyl alcohol contract when frozen?
Pretty much everything but water. But you might as well bury it underground at that point. There's no savings or advantage.
Most things do.
~J
~J
| QUOTE (Austere Emancipator) |
| [QUOTE=Raygun] As for the gel rounds, what's the highest density you can get for a gel to be used for something like this? Like Raygun, I just can't see a bullet made out of a gel that weighs something like 6-20 grains/0.4-1.3 grams (ARs through HPs) being very effective. |
I'm curious. What materials are real life plastic bullets made out of?
As far as I could find there aren't, at least not in the sense of a gel round in SR. There's large (looks like 75mm from the accompanying text) projectiles called Plastic Bullets used in ireland but those are not fired from anything resembling a normal firearm, and there's a variety of "less lethal" beanbag and rubber rounds fired from shotguns.
Nothing "less lethal" fired from a small arm that wasn't descriped as "completely ineffectual" could be found in google.
Nothing "less lethal" fired from a small arm that wasn't descriped as "completely ineffectual" could be found in google.
Yeah, the last thing I heard about nonlethal handgun bullets was some guy working on ShockRounds piezoelectric bullets that were blunt but delivered a shock on impact.
Rubber bullets fired from (assault) rifles are used for crowd control in the more restless parts of the world, and AFAIK those are just made of regular rubber.
The effective range is going to be a few dozen meters -- the light bullets rapidly lose speed and thus effect. They're bound to sting like a bitch unless you're wearing heavy clothing, and if they hit any kind of armor you might not even notice you were shot. They can cause serious blunt trauma and have certainly killed and hospitalized a lot of people. At close ranges, especially against lightly clothed people, the bullets can easily penetrate the skin.
There are lots of different "less lethal" ammunition types for shotguns and grenade launchers, made out of all kinds of materials.
Note that most bullets are blunt, pistol bullets sometimes completely so (such as these .38 Special wad cutters, although these aren't designed with combat in mind). That doesn't matter much, though, since a 0.35-0.5"/9mm-12.7mm diameter metal cylinder weighing 120-300 grains/8-20 grams and moving at 800-1500fps/240-460m/s is going to crush a nice big hole into you regardless of how blunt it is, and in fact it's going to make a bigger hole although a slightly less deep one the blunter it is. I have serious doubts any metal bullet is going to prove "less lethal".
The effective range is going to be a few dozen meters -- the light bullets rapidly lose speed and thus effect. They're bound to sting like a bitch unless you're wearing heavy clothing, and if they hit any kind of armor you might not even notice you were shot. They can cause serious blunt trauma and have certainly killed and hospitalized a lot of people. At close ranges, especially against lightly clothed people, the bullets can easily penetrate the skin.
There are lots of different "less lethal" ammunition types for shotguns and grenade launchers, made out of all kinds of materials.
Note that most bullets are blunt, pistol bullets sometimes completely so (such as these .38 Special wad cutters, although these aren't designed with combat in mind). That doesn't matter much, though, since a 0.35-0.5"/9mm-12.7mm diameter metal cylinder weighing 120-300 grains/8-20 grams and moving at 800-1500fps/240-460m/s is going to crush a nice big hole into you regardless of how blunt it is, and in fact it's going to make a bigger hole although a slightly less deep one the blunter it is. I have serious doubts any metal bullet is going to prove "less lethal".
The ShockRounds are rubber as well.
| QUOTE (http://www.investorideas.com/Companies/ViewDocument.asp?ID=1958) |
| [...] the kinetically generated charge is delivered via a modified metal or rubber bullet fired from existing standard issued weapons [...] |
It may be, however, that the metal version of the bullet would not be intended to be any less lethal in the first place.
| QUOTE |
* A 9mm or 10mm standard police-calibre bullet that delivers an incapacitating electric charge. The bullet would produce normal wound characteristics, but could be less-lethal because of its ability to potentially decrease the number of shots required to incapacitate the threat. In effect, an electric charge is added to bullets currently employed by police and military forces. This bullet has straightforward marketability, since its wound characteristics are already accepted and the benefit of the added electric charge should reduce the incidence of return fire and substantially contribute to user safety in the field as well as that of bystanders or innocent civilians. |
| QUOTE (BitBasher) |
| As far as I could find there aren't, at least not in the sense of a gel round in SR. There's large (looks like 75mm from the accompanying text) projectiles called Plastic Bullets used in ireland but those are not fired from anything resembling a normal firearm, and there's a variety of "less lethal" beanbag and rubber rounds fired from shotguns. Nothing "less lethal" fired from a small arm that wasn't descriped as "completely ineffectual" could be found in google. |
I was recently reading a brochure for a weapon that fired these bigass plastic projectiles using compressed air, and clipped to the underside of a standard assault rifle (like a grenade launcher).
| QUOTE (Austere Emancipator) |
| Rubber bullets fired from (assault) rifles are used for crowd control in the more restless parts of the world, and AFAIK those are just made of regular rubber. |
Shotguns, sure. 37mm and 40mm launchers, sure. Grenades, sure. But I've never heard of any less-lethal "rubber bullet" munition being fired from an assault rifle. At least not as a direct replacement for lethal munitions. Assault rifles are about the least practical type of weapon to convert to a less-lethal system.
| QUOTE (Raygun) |
| But I've never heard of any less-lethal "rubber bullet" munition being fired from an assault rifle. At least not as a direct replacement for lethal munitions. Assault rifles are about the least practical type of weapon to convert to a less-lethal system. |
Not in the western world, but check out reports from other countries like Indonesia: "On that day, two police commanders later testified, officers were not issued live ammunition but carried Steyr AUG and SS-1 rifles loaded with three blanks and 12 rubber bullets, plus SS-1s loaded with five tear gas canisters apiece."
Of course, there's always dozens of people hospitalized after the police or the military open up with rifles firing rubber bullets into an angry mob, and every now and then people die.
I've never seen rubber-bulleted ammunition designed to be used in assault rifles. Ever. I guess that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but I can't seem to find any of it online. At this point I would consider that more a case of bad reporting than something I would stake my life on.
Well, I know I've seen plenty of videos from around those parts of the world where police/military was firing at crowds with rifles, and there's often plenty of people bruised and bleeding far away from the police/military. What exactly is going on there, I'm not sure. It may be, as is often the case in Israel, that they use special barrel attachments to propel rubber/plastic pellets with blank rounds. It may be that the people have been injured by rubber/plastic rounds from large-caliber weapons that simply aren't shown, or they may even have been beaten by batons earlier and are running away.
I certainly couldn't find any manufacturer or distributor of rubber or plastic ammunition for rifles. It may be that they are simply a misunderstanding of other less lethal methods employed by forces which also happen to have rifles along.
I certainly couldn't find any manufacturer or distributor of rubber or plastic ammunition for rifles. It may be that they are simply a misunderstanding of other less lethal methods employed by forces which also happen to have rifles along.
| QUOTE (Austere Emancipator) |
| Well, I know I've seen plenty of videos from around those parts of the world where police/military was firing at crowds with rifles, and there's often plenty of people bruised and bleeding far away from the police/military. What exactly is going on there, I'm not sure. It may be, as is often the case in Israel, that they use special barrel attachments to propel rubber/plastic pellets with blank rounds. |
Which is also one of the things the US military uses for riot control. But that's not a direct replacement for 5.56x45mm ammo. You can't fire semi-auto with that kind of thing. It works like a barrel grenade. Attach it, chamber a blank, shoot it. And so on.
I just can't believe that anyone would employ a 5.56mm rubber bullet. It seems like an extremely bad idea.
| QUOTE |
| It may be that the people have been injured by rubber/plastic rounds from large-caliber weapons that simply aren't shown, or they may even have been beaten by batons earlier and are running away. |
Most likely. Wouldn't put it past the news media to have a shot of a cop firing blanks into a crowd as a scare tactic, then the next shot be of some bruised and battered people crying into the camera.
| QUOTE |
| I certainly couldn't find any manufacturer or distributor of rubber or plastic ammunition for rifles. It may be that they are simply a misunderstanding of other less lethal methods employed by forces which also happen to have rifles along. |
That's what I'm thinking. Shoddy reporting. Of course in this case, the police could have just been using live ammo. Something is fishy in that story, anyway.
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