Ok, my players are on a mission to prevent a building from being leveled, there are explosives at the site and a couple dozen guys there too, One of my players has asked for an EMP device as an attempt to take out the detonators and whatever else they can before going in (that *can* be taken out by EMP) Since EMP is given a miss in Shadowrun by the fact that optical electronics prevail, what would the stats for such a device be? cost, availability, effect, etc. (the only SR stats I can find are on dead webpages... grr)

-JL

EMP destroys electronic devices by causing a massive surge of current. Given that most building demolitions are done utilizing shaped charge plastic explosives, which are detonated electronically, discharging an EMP device in the proximity would cause the explosives to detonate.

Am I the only one that ever seems to remember that early in the SR timeline, they developed electronics components that could withstand the effects of an electro-magnetic pulse?

By the 2060's I'd suspect this technology is pretty much standard.

And AFAIK there's really no canon EMP weapons in SR really.

An EMP would either detonate the charges because they are hooked into an elaborately timed circuit of wires (albeit on a large scale instead of a circuit board), or do nothing because the current it generated in the large scale circuit is too small to set them off.

Besides, the detonation signal will be sent from 1/2mile away.

If it is a land line, cut it. If it is an electronic signal, jam it.

I think that's it. They don't like me bringing Shadowrun books to work

That's it! The Man is an Immortal Nazi Elf who is masterminding a conspiracy to keep us from having access to our libraries.

Wait...why is everyone looking at me funny?

I found a reference in the Dumpshock Timeline Explorer:

An EMP does not effect capacitors and other components. It fries small IC's. The kind of stuff that would get cooked by your personal static electricity.

Jamming a signal is done by flooding the frequency. Jamming the freq of a radio detonator is very likely going to detonate the charge. Most are just waiting for A signal, not a specific signal. That's why blast zones have all kinds of warning signs
about cell phones and radios, etc.

Delete: Double post

Optical chips might be proof against EMP, but at least according to one GM of mine, cyberware ain't I recall getting emp'd whilst playing a cybersam. Complete bitch, I had cybereyes and was blind for about half a dozen combat rounds. Mind you, it was a pretty funky fight - me, blind and with a retractable polearm (this was barely post-80's, I had a whole Predator thing going with the gear), on top of a speeding train, duelling with the really rather talented techno-ninja team who were trying to get the cargo my boys were protecting.

The magazine just sets the event in the timeline. The actual ruling about how EMP does (or in this case does not) affect electronics is canon, especially in the case of Cyberware.

By logic and today’s physics and emp should be effective. That said by logic and today’s science 90% of SR tech (not to mention magic) is imposable. The main book says EMPs are useless. If you want logic a big engulf emp will fire the detonators (better hope there not wired in yet)availability is almost imposable because nobody uses them because they don’t do anything useful (you may have a special case but there till not on the shelf) cost is arbitrary and more related to the difficulty of finding one than the difficulty of making one.

Edward

based on physics: an EMP will produce a current on any metal wires. <induction generated by the field change, depending on length of wire and field strength>
in your case, depending on the detonators used, and the type of explosive it may very well set them off. <plastic explosives are set off using electricity>, any emp device big enough to reliably fry detonators will also set off the explosives.

as for cyber and computers,etc. canon says it does not work. our current chips get fried because they are based on conductors, emp "shielding" is a very complicated process and unlikely to be applied en masse.
however, in SR the whole basic principle behind computing has changed. everything is optical, meaning no conducting wires meaning no electric currents created by emps so emp away, computers will not be harmed at all. EMp`s are useless in sr. Now some gms like to modify their worlds so that emp`s work.. in that case an emp would be a nightmare device/WMD to a world so dependent on high tech as sr, heavily cibered people would likely be killed or at least require very expensive replacements and surgery to get to the damaged chips, never mind what might happen to you if you had some headware installed & got some electric shocks directly into the gray tissue because of an EMP..

DS

Surrounging something with chicken wire of tin foil is a complicated process?

Faraday Cage

Next, the plastic explosive are not set of by an electrical charge...

There is a smaller more sensitive explosive device (a blasting cap or detanator) that may be set off by electricity... This is stuck on/into the block of plastic explosives. The plastic explosives themselves are quite stable (at least, good plastic explosives) and require and 'explosiion' )heat and pressure) to set off. This allows you to store small quanities of relatively volatile explosives (blasting caps) seperately from much larger quanities of stable explosives. You don't mate the two up until it's time to blow something up.

So, to be more proper, the EMP may set off the blasting caps/detanators if they are electrically fired, which will, in turn, set of the larger explosive charge.

C-4 can be cooked with (it burns quite well), just don't try stomping on it to put it out, of flinging flaming balls of it anywhere...

Next,

In general any passage through EM radiation will induce currents in metal, the 'EMP' generated by a nuke is so famous because the amount of radiation produced is enough to acutally damage electronics. A simple hand held radio will incude currents in nearby electronics (see earlier comments about radios and blasting areas). It's takes a pretty large RF/EMP device to actually destory electronics...

Look in rigger 3. Things are still quite electronic based. they have a section just for when vehicles and drones get hit with electrical attacks. while the chips can take the emp, it doesn't mean the motors, power supplies, cabeling, sensors, and everything else can. Emp's will still stop a car, turn off cyberware, and can possibly cause a building's systems to reboot or freeze up.

That said, I would not recomend them to stop a detonation. All you'd do is make it go off early, while the demo crew was still inside the building. Course, if you did this on a different building with the same crew, and they couldn't trace it, then I suppose their safety record would drop. There'd be an investigation, all their other projects would be put on hold, hmmm.

In all reality everything that runs on electricity in a given area will be toasted for a certain time. With enough power behind your EMP the lighbulbs will go permanently those little red and green lasers will be fried, electric motors will seize, Smartguns become dumb, laser sights become useless, electronic imaging cameras will be toast, tasers will be history, and I pity the poor rigger connected to the building. BTW an EMP device big enough to do this to an area the size of the Astrodome? An average size man can carry two in his backpack. now this effect won't last long 45 seconds to a couple minutes maybe more if you can take out a transformer with the blast radius.

My source-My father who holds a Class One FCC license and a master Degree in Broadcast Engineering.

Based on that, I admit I underestimated the capability of currently existing EMP weapons. Although I'd rather say "a runner with access to explosives and a lot of electronics", since some of the parts in the diagram in the first link don't seem like they're made off stuff you could find in a Radio Shack. Although admittedly with a high enough Electronics (+ B/R, depending on the GM) skill that wouldn't be too great an obstacle.

As I remember, a basic EMP is just a bomb with a lot of wire wrapped around it.

~J

Ah, OK, so the basics are simple, the armed forces' unnecessarily complicated language just fooled me. Okay then, a reasonably effective EMP bomb would definitely be possible for a resourceful team of runners.

Thanx AE for the explain. hmm this brings up an old issue, if heat & pressure can ignite C4 does this mean I can detonate a bunch of C4 by firing at it?
<this is a big issue in our campaign as one fo the runners does have a penchant for using c4 when stealth allows.. said c4 is usually transported in the trunk of the car, and they do get shot at rather frequently.. >


DS

What are you firing at it? Most small arms bullets will not impart much heat on the explosive.

hmm. . I was under the impression that there was a lot of heat generated by bullets as they are brought to a stop. so my next question becomes, what would it take to set them off? I am trying to determine just how safe is to carry the stuff in a firefight. would normal ammo set it off? say from a predator pistol? what about an smg? or does it take an assault cannon?

DS

I have to say I'm not sure, and also I think you won't get a reliable answer either way. Without Googling it, the way I'd run it as a GM is that you'd need to fire explosive bullets (of nearly any caliber) at it to set it off. Large caliber incendiaries (Sniper Rifle maybe, HMG definitely) ignited before they hit the explosive might also do the trick. Explosions transfer very poorly, so grenades and other small explosives will not set it off unless you get insanely unlucky or you're hugging the grenade.

well, I did some googling.. found that c4 is an extremely versatile substance. a funny detail for the skill 0 detonation guys is that std nr 8 blasting caps apparently can cause a dud as the more powerful military j8 is needed. it seems also that when burning <it burns quite easily> it exudes toxic fumes.. I also learned semtex exudes a liquid when stored.. & a lot more.. we are all a bit too spoilt with movies, but real life demolition is not as simple as it sounds. I also realised explosive ranges in nsr are meaningless since they dont account for shrapnel whcih si the deadliest effect..*sigh* another houserule-to-do..

in any case it seems c4 is perfectly safe except in extreme conditions but turns really unstable if heated up. <so if you are carrying some and it gets set on fire by a fireball be VERY careful when attempting to put out the fire, or when throwing it away

DS

The Blast ratings are meaningless because they're crap. Powerful explosive = powerful overpressure waves = overpressure waves travel further.
A few threads on explosives:
Explosive Ratings, what am i missing
Explosive forms
Explosives


I got 2 hours of training for military demolitions and still managed to blow a 1 x 1 meter hole in a car roof with detcord, sever a heavy cable with 2 100g TNT charges. People with just as much training also cut a steel I-beam with plastic explosives, some holes into steel plates with special cutter charges, etc. There's plenty of stuff you can achieve with some TNT, a few blasting caps, a bit of fuze and some very basic skills.