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FlakJacket
QUOTE (BitBasher)
I want to reiterate the point that if the vamp is a physad or adept Oh My God are you so screwed. I can pretty easily make a magically active vampire that can dismantle a whole team in a night. They are right under dragons for "oh shit" factor. vegm.gif

Okay, I'll bite. This seems like an amusing thing to hash out, how insanely powerful can we get one of these guys. biggrin.gif
fistandantilus4.0
Stop! you're giving my GM ideas!




AAAAAGGGHHHH!!!!!


*dies horribly in pool of own blood*
BitBasher
QUOTE (FlakJacket)
QUOTE (BitBasher)
I want to reiterate the point that if the vamp is a physad or adept Oh My God are you so screwed. I can pretty easily make a magically active vampire that can dismantle a whole team in a night. They are right under dragons for "oh shit" factor. vegm.gif

Okay, I'll bite. This seems like an amusing thing to hash out, how insanely powerful can we get one of these guys. biggrin.gif

Am I allowed to initiate? is it a legal starting character that gets vamped? does he get some karma first?

I'm leaning twards a vamp with increased reflexes (it stacks with vamp reflexes) bonus melee dice and some other minor powers.. oh, and the first metamagic a vampire picks up is masking... unless he's a full mage then it's invoking and channeling because a campire with an EXTRA 6 added to physical stats and Immunity to Normal Weapons at force 6 or so, if even for a few minutes, it just a dirtnap waiting to happen. He'll smoke the whole party in straight up combat most likely and an initiate grade of only what, 2 or 3. Oh, and give him a claymore. vegm.gif
Kanada Ten
Actually, A Magician's Way Vampire with even a single point of Magical Power and Shielding metamagic need not even cast spells or conjure to defeat the teams best weapons. Four levels of Side Step and a Force 4 Deflect spell (do Vampires Regenerate Drain?)... Then top it off with Distance Strike and Control Toughts. Geek the mage, ownz the team.
BitBasher
My way was more "video game boss fight" style.... Except there are no continues, and you don't win wink.gif

Edit: good call on distance strike, as that makes the defender unable to counterattack and causes heinous one sidedness. I like it!
fistandantilus4.0
Damn, you guys hate me.

I die now. sleepy.gif
BitBasher
QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0)
Damn, you guys hate me.

I die now. sleepy.gif

I don't think this thread is any longer about you. It's got a life of it's own now! wink.gif

Seriously I think I did all I can do for you on the "I wanna kill vamps angle" cause that's much like a "I want to be a professional suicide victim" IMO wink.gif
fistandantilus4.0
I actually almost did already in the game. I only walked out of a room with just 2 vamps and a few gaurds because I was strapped with 10 kilos of c4. But we ended there. We'll see how far I make it.
Thank god they didn't have a lightning bolt spell or something equally nasty!
Fortune
Gods, I hate Distance Strike! In my opinion it is the single most unbalanced Adept Power. It just doesn't exist in my games.
toturi
Distance Strike is 2 Power Points. Pretty high cost.

Besides, you could always do use the rigger drones things and blow them away from afar.
FlakJacket
QUOTE (BitBasher)
Am I allowed to initiate? Is it a legal starting character that gets vamped? Does he get some karma first?

Lets make it interesting. Three options: legal starting character that got bit, mid-range experienced character that's initiated three or four times, and no limits let your evil little imagination carry you away power gaming time. smile.gif
Cynic project
LASERS. LASERS. Lasers make vampires verry unhappy.
toturi
No, they do not. They might not count as normal weapons and might count for the 1-2 of 6, but they do not actually take more damage from laser.
Kagetenshi
No, but 18 Power is a good start against a Body potentially in the upper teens to mid twenties.

~J
FlakJacket
Can someone give me a page number for where in Critters it talks about adding essence to physical attributes? I had a brief look yesterday and couldn't find it.

And what about Nosferatu? IIRC, doesn't the book say their essence is more than twelve when generating random NPC's?
BitBasher
Critters book, page 9, under "Enhanced Physical Attributes". Man I love them PDF's! Buy yours today!

And yeah, Nosferatu is 5+2d6 essence, but their enhanced physical attributes is only twice per day and only str and bod, unlike a vampire which is permanent and all physical attributes.
Herald of Verjigorm
The power listed as "Enhanced Physical Attributes" in the vampire entry and the description of that power at the front.

Nosferatu's biggest advantage is that they have at worst half the need to feed. This lets them be much harder to trace than standard vampires, but yes they do have 5 more essense than regular vampires as well.
Cynic project
QUOTE (toturi)
No, they do not. They might not count as normal weapons and might count for the 1-2 of 6, but they do not actually take more damage from laser.

You miss the point. See when you shoot things with lasers, they tend to get hurt. The fact that Lasers do not cause more damage to vampires, doesn't change the fact they tend to cause more than enough damage to kill just about anything. Seeing as vampires are things....
Herald of Verjigorm
Lasers work well for knocking a vampire down, but so does almost any other weapon in the same price range. The hard part is making the vampire stay down, and with mundane weapons, that just means to apply more ammo at the target.
Cynic project
Well, that is why you kill them until they die from it.
Pthgar
QUOTE (hahnsoo @ Feb 16 2005, 05:51 PM)
QUOTE (Cynic project @ Feb 16 2005, 04:45 PM)
Speaking of shapeshifters..WHat happens when one gets HMHVV?

They die a horrible horrible death? Since they are technically Awakened animals that take human form, the Human-Metahuman Vampiric Virus probably doesn't change them (and maybe Regeneration prevents the alteration of their DNA). But then again, Sasquatches become Bandersnatches, so I don't know...

Yeah, that never made sense to me. We all agreed in our group that Patterson was wrong again and that Bandersnacthi are Orks with HMHVV-2
BitBasher
QUOTE (Cynic project)
Well, that is why you kill them until they die from it.

That line is very quotable. Nice! biggrin.gif
Kanada Ten
Yeah, a full automatic laser would be nice. AS would bullets with a "Suppress Regeneration" spell anchored on them. Obviously some monk in the Vatican will be taking drain on your first shot, but then you switch to the laser...
Brazila
Just a quick side question, where did you guys pull the Nosferatu stats from?
hahnsoo
QUOTE (Brazila)
Just a quick side question, where did you guys pull the Nosferatu stats from?

Probably Paranormal Animals of Europe?
Fortune
QUOTE (Brazila @ Feb 18 2005, 12:03 PM)
Just a quick side question, where did you guys pull the Nosferatu stats from?

As hahnsoo said, PAoE.
Herald of Verjigorm
Or critters page 38.
FlakJacket
QUOTE (Brazila)
Just a quick side question, where did you guys pull the Nosferatu stats from?

Critters.
Paul
Or if you have, Paranormals of Europe they are there as well, but maybe not in their updated status. I agree with Bit Basher by the way, it's amazing what a Vampire in SR can do. By far one of the deadliest enemies I could devise-add in magical initiation, magical weapons...well lets just say I don't do that too often, luckily for my players.
Fortune
I agree. A Vampire Toxic Wolf Shaman was one of the absolute worst things outside of Dragons faced by characters in my games. He made for a nice, persistent nemesis. biggrin.gif
toturi
Not really, a Mutant Toxic Vampire Magician Adept with a pack of Attuned Devil Rats summoning Demon Rats and normal rats is more fitting for my PCs. Did I say that the rats had ADS and Demon Rats had MADS?
Fortune
I did say 'one of'! nyahnyah.gif biggrin.gif
Brazila
I am running a vampire hunting campaign right now. They have only fought pawns so far. They are working with good old Marty, and the one job they did, he took out the vamp while they nuked pawns. I can't wait to unleash a vamp on them hee hee.
tisoz
I remember one of the gaming magazines having a SR adventure set in New Orleans. It featured a vampire possessed by about a force 7 free spirit. I think they even got one of the vampire rules wrong, maybe the quickness or strength stat. Or maybe he had cyberware, too. It was kind of silly.
Mortax
Well, as to the question of how stupid powerfull these things can get....

Mortax was a vampire mage with 150+ karma. He never died (as vamps are wont to do) I just stopped playing him. It got booring.

Some fun things in his arsinal? A dikote katana and some fun spells.
wood barrier (anoying stakes) spell locked
aleviate sunlight allergy locked
str, bod, & quick +4
helblast, mana blast, manabolt, and powere blast at ungodly levels.

I decided to stop playing him when he wiped the floor with a dragon. Such things should not happen.

As far as killing them.. well he enjoyed doing that as well so here are a few tricks.

shotgun with wood slugs (they have vunerablity)

find a mage or physad with weapon foci. the have to make a test to see if they can regen, then they still have to make a regen roll and not get a 1 or 2

find a mage with physical barrier, keep it on, no air, induced dormancy.

spray tank with argon. spray it in their lungs, its heavier than air, so they have to stand on their head to get it out.

monowhips

throw them in a lake, they have like a +3 target number to swim.

if all else fails, vindicator with ex ex.

Make sure you get several actions before they do.
hope it helps, I'll try and remember some others.
tisoz
As someone pointed out, creatures regenerate wounds caused by things they are vulnerable to as easy as normal wounds.

Physical barriers allow air molecules to pass through.
hobgoblin
a tac nuke comes to mind, but then thats what i would use for dragon hunting to silly.gif

i would love to see anything regenerate from being split into individual atoms...
BitBasher
QUOTE (hobgoblin)
a tac nuke comes to mind, but then thats what i would use for dragon hunting to silly.gif

i would love to see anything regenerate from being split into individual atoms...

Technically when hit with a nuke they woudl regenerate on all but a 1 or 2 on 1d6, there is literally no way to increase that beyond 2 in 6. biggrin.gif wobble.gif
Tarantula
Quick and easy way. Make an adept who is a virtuoso, and get a 12+ rating virtuoso piece. (Bonus if he does something cool with it, a cross or somesuch). Now, any vampires in the area around him are in a background count of rating of the piece. Because it is a mana warp, it reduces critters essence by the rating, 12+ makes vampires poof and die instantly because they have no essence. Done and done.
BitBasher
QUOTE (Tarantula)
Quick and easy way. Make an adept who is a virtuoso, and get a 12+ rating virtuoso piece. (Bonus if he does something cool with it, a cross or somesuch). Now, any vampires in the area around him are in a background count of rating of the piece. Because it is a mana warp, it reduces critters essence by the rating, 12+ makes vampires poof and die instantly because they have no essence. Done and done.

Small problem, vampires aren't dual natured, they wouldn't even notice it. They have no special connection to the astral.
Austere Emancipator
QUOTE (BitBasher)
Technically when hit with a nuke they woudl regenerate on all but a 1 or 2 on 1d6, there is literally no way to increase that beyond 2 in 6. biggrin.gif wobble.gif

On the other hand, they'll be rolling that for quite a while. If the vamp's literally standing at ground zero, its corpse will be subject to 4-6 digit temperatures and almost instantly lethal radiation for long enough to diminish its chances of getting out alive to something very small.
Tarantula
So? Vampire are a critter, and critters have their essence reduced by the level of a mana warp. Upon re-reading, they don't die, they just can't use ANY critter powers whatsoever. Also, due to their essence loss disadvantage, they will die within a few days/hours if kept there, so all you have to do is chase them around, or shoot them while they can't use their critter power.

QUOTE ("Pg 85 MiTS")
Each level of mana warp reduces a character's Magic Rating (Essence for critters, Force for spirits) while they are within the warped area according to the Warp Effects Table.

The warp effects table is -12 for a rating 10 warp, so you only need a rating 10 virtuoso piece.
QUOTE ("Pg 85 Mits")
Critters reduced to an effective Essence 0 cannot use critter powers.


So, shoot them as normal, they die, the end.
FlakJacket
QUOTE (hobgoblin)
I would love to see anything regenerate from being split into individual atoms.

Well since they already can kind of thanks to their turn to mist power, as BitBasher said, still only a one in three chance of killing the bugger. smile.gif
hobgoblin
crap, forgot about the mist power. foiled by magic, again frown.gif
akarenti
Not if you nuke it during the day--exposure to Allergies prevents creatures from taking Mistform. Which is really the best thing about sunlight in SR vampire hunting.
Tarantula
It might be in a building during the day, and thus not exposed to said allergies. but its still only a 1-2 that it'll die.
akarenti
I'm a big fan of Canon (I've had players complain that I don't make any crazy one-of-a-kind Deus ex Machina stuff), but I usually rule in favor of Nukes in just about every situation.
Sandoval Smith
I know for 'shifters, mention is made of severe damage to the brain or spine being very bad for them in terms of what they can regenerate. I'd call nukes the severest damage your brain and spine can simaltanously undergo, so sorry, no regen for you.
BitBasher
QUOTE (Sandoval Smith)
I know for 'shifters, mention is made of severe damage to the brain or spine being very bad for them in terms of what they can regenerate. I'd call nukes the severest damage your brain and spine can simaltanously undergo, so sorry, no regen for you.

Severe damage to the spinal column or nervious system does not automatically kill them though, it just gets you a 2 in 6 instead of a 1 in 6 chance of them failing to regenerate. Really, you could blow a vamp's head clean off and they still can regenerate that back 2/3 of the time.
Tarantula
But the question is, does the body grow a head, or does the head grow a body?
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