When you've absolutely, positively have to kill something right NOW?
Claymore mine.
Cheap, chargen-accessable, 10+D damage over a 90 degree angle, and user friendly. I doubt you'd need a demolitions test to understand 'point this end at enemy and prime'.
Full Version: Pistols
| QUOTE (Critias) | ||
Pistols quite certainly aren't "underestimated," when compared to other weapons. I'll agree (whole heartedly) that the 4L damage a basic hold-out offers up is seen by many characters as negligible -- it's one of the reasons my primary character's worked his Pistol score up to an 8 or 9 or so... but you quite simply can't deny that Heavy Pistols, as a class, are seriously overblown when compared to SMGs and Assault Rifles (for instance). Look at the base damage for a Heavy Pistol, compare it to the base damage of any SMG or Assault Rifle in the book, and then just take a second to shake your head and chuckle. Find me a cop, soldier, or anyone else, who'd rather take a bullet from an AK-47 than an average handgun, and I'll show you a dumbass. In the interest of John Woo-style pistol action (and "decent concealability but still moderate lethality" action), I think the SR game developers overblew the Power of Heavy Pistols as a class, to encourage people to use them (instead of bigger, should-be-nastier, guns). That said, I do agree that most firearms are less lethal than they should be, realistically. I think it was done on purpose, however (just like the relative overpowering of certain pistols in relation to other firearms), in order to keep up the "rule of cool," and encourage people to not necessarily shy away from combat, to make the game feel a little more fantasy and less gritty/dangerous (for better or worse), and even to encourage melee combat. Want a good laugh? Sit down sometime and work out how many shots it'll take Average Joe (defaulting to Quickness) to kill himself, with a light pistol bought expressly for that purpose. |
My point was that ALL firearms are underestimated in Shadowrun. And yes, am SMG or Assault Rifle should have a better rating than any pistol, but meh, you said it yourself, rule of cool. It's a game, and one should not overdo it with realism. Just remeber that next time you see someone pointing any firearm in your direction, nand don't think "gee, everyone can roll down 4L".
While we're at it ... a simple combat knife is a very potent weapon, if it is used like it is supposed to be used - to slash and cut, not to stab. Since knifes are extreamly easy to conceal, they are ideal assassins weapons, even today. One cut to the tighs, armpit, neck, or lower arm, and the victim has about five to seven heartbeats to live. Cuts main arteries. Especially in the armpit, nothing can help you then, any more. But meh, SR's armed and unarmed combat rules aren't too realistic either. Too bad really, takes a lot of cool out of the game.
And yeah, we calculated how often an average jow would need to blow his head off with a streetline a long time ago. I think it was about 4 shots. Meh.
| QUOTE |
| Everything I have heard suggests that a light pistol IRL is only likely to kill you if the attacker gets lucky or is highly skilled. Especially if you’re waring even basic armour. |
Beg your pardon?
If a small-caliber round penetrates a head, it won't go out, just like a larger round would, as it lacks power to do so. Instead, it just bounces around inside the head, effectively making it filled with minced brain. Unlike a headshot woth a larger-caliber weapon, you have no chance to survive this. Granted, they lack in terms of aim and effective stopping power (a shot not into a major organ or the head won't kill anyone outright), but don't expect to just shrug a hit of one of those off.
To be fair, it is worth poiunting out that while guns are deadly and anyone can die from even a .22LR, human physiology is also fucking incredible, and people can survive things that messageboard kids decided would kill anyone in a two mile radius. But, yeah, the original comment was really, really dumb.
| QUOTE (hermit) |
| While we're at it ... a simple combat knife is a very potent weapon, if it is used like it is supposed to be used - to slash and cut, not to stab. |
have to disagree with that. slashing and cutting, especially with a small weapon, gives you long surface wounds. stabbing gives you short, deep wounds. long wounds suck, sure, but deep wounds kill you a lot faster.
| QUOTE |
| have to disagree with that. slashing and cutting, especially with a small weapon, gives you long surface wounds. stabbing gives you short, deep wounds. long wounds suck, sure, but deep wounds kill you a lot faster. |
NOPE. It's true, slashing won't penetrate too far down. But. At least if the slashing is done correctly and hits a major vein - you have one enemy less. Whammo. Especially if you slash the vein parallel, not crossing it - that way, the vein cannot even try and contract to keep blood loss comparatively low. Besides, when stabbing, the wound automatically contracts, and pulling the knife out again will be hard to impossible.
And a deep stab that misses major organs is not only not deadly, it isn't even as painful as one might think it is, as the wound is a clean cut instead of the mess of ripples and burns a gun shot causes. Not nescessarily what you'd call effective, especially if it loses you the weapon.
Yeah, missed that. That isn't right at all. If you want to disable someone quickly, you'll slash if you have to, but stabbing with a small weapon like that is going to get you what you want a lot faster.
[edit]
Right... In combat, I'm sure you're going to be able to make sure that slash cuts right down the vein for maximum efficency.
If you can't penetrate more than the outer layers of skin and muscle, you're not doing anything more than superficially annoying your opponent. Sure, it'll hurt and it'll slow him down, but your chances of disabling your opponent are severly compromised.
[edit]
Right... In combat, I'm sure you're going to be able to make sure that slash cuts right down the vein for maximum efficency.
If you can't penetrate more than the outer layers of skin and muscle, you're not doing anything more than superficially annoying your opponent. Sure, it'll hurt and it'll slow him down, but your chances of disabling your opponent are severly compromised.
| QUOTE (torzzzzz @ Mar 1 2005, 11:47 AM) |
| tumbler bullets are another option, if you can get them when my dad was in Iraq the first time round he brought home a newspaper photo of a bloke who had been hit by one........ nasty and hes was definatly not going to get up and walk away form it! |
What is a tumbler bullet, and where can I get such badassery?
Have to agree with mfd. It is my understanding that a commano killing someone from the back usually don't start with slicing throat. They'd punch through the kidney to induce shock and then slice the throat. Every other techniques don't even use slashing at all ; most are variant of punching the knife in some way through some area of the neck. Between collarbone and shoulder blade with a dowward stroke, for example.
As for combat, killing is all about stabbing. Slicing motion are defensive in nature.
AFAIK, anyway.
As for combat, killing is all about stabbing. Slicing motion are defensive in nature.
AFAIK, anyway.
Well, I can't say I am an expert myself, all I know is what I take form my Kali lessons, but that is that, in certain places (upper tighs, neck, lower arms, and armpits), the vein is sufficiently close to the surface to be sliced open easily. Additinally, if you cut someone's biceps, they lose that arm, which opens their entire side - good chance to slice the neck.
And Commandos usually sneak up from behind. Yeah, a stab to the kidneys is deadly too, but meh, when you're facing someone, detting to their kidneys isn't too easy.
And Commandos usually sneak up from behind. Yeah, a stab to the kidneys is deadly too, but meh, when you're facing someone, detting to their kidneys isn't too easy.
| QUOTE |
| In combat, I'm sure you're going to be able to make sure that slash cuts right down the vein for maximum efficency. |
And having your knife stuck in your opponent's stomach while he slashes his knife through your face is better?
Tumbling bullets are nothing incredible. Most bullets will tumble to some degree upon entering a dense medium, and any bullet shaped correctly to place the center of gravity rear of the center of drag should do it. And they do what they say: they tumble around, causing a more erratic wound channel/cavity, though keep in mind the effect is not always that dramatic because they don't spend much time inside of you. There are rounds designed specifically to make use of tumbling, like the 5.45x39mm Russian round, and opinions on just how wonderful this feature is vary quite a bit. Personally, I don't buy it.
Charon: all that is correct as I've heard it, except that in a covert situation, throat slitting is not as common as most people make it out to be due to the noise generated from uncontrollable exhaling.
Charon: all that is correct as I've heard it, except that in a covert situation, throat slitting is not as common as most people make it out to be due to the noise generated from uncontrollable exhaling.
| QUOTE (hermit) |
| And having your knife stuck in your opponent's stomach while he slashes his knife through your face is better? |
I'd call you on strawmanning if I thought you even realized how little that example has to do with anything that's been said so far.
| QUOTE (Arethusa) |
| There are rounds designed specifically to make use of tumbling, like the 5.45x39mm Russian round, and opinions on just how wonderful this feature is vary quite a bit. Personally, I don't buy it. |
The hell you say. I don't buy it for a friggin' second.
| QUOTE |
| I'd call you on strawmanning if I thought you even realized how little that example has to do with anything that's been said so far. |
Seems we're talking about different situations entirely ... I was more talking about your average knife fight between street thugs. Then again, you're presumably American and not used to street thugs carrying anything else than firearms, so meh ... and I wasn't talking about killing someone silently from behind, for the record.
Slashing is an excellent knife technique. It's what I personally stick to most of the time.
Do not confuse this with a more powerful blow. If you have a clear opening and you slash, congratulations, you've wasted your opening. It's faster to recover from, leaves you more covered, a lot of other benefits. None of these benefits is doing additional damage. Stabbing is much more deadly.
~J
Do not confuse this with a more powerful blow. If you have a clear opening and you slash, congratulations, you've wasted your opening. It's faster to recover from, leaves you more covered, a lot of other benefits. None of these benefits is doing additional damage. Stabbing is much more deadly.
~J
| QUOTE (hermit @ Mar 1 2005, 07:36 PM) |
| Well, I can't say I am an expert myself, all I know is what I take form my Kali lessons, but that is that, in certain places (upper tighs, neck, lower arms, and armpits), the vein is sufficiently close to the surface to be sliced open easily. Additinally, if you cut someone's biceps, they lose that arm, which opens their entire side - good chance to slice the neck. |
I said slicing motion are defensive in nature and slicing the arm of the attacker is exactly what I meant. I doubt you've been thaught to target the bicep while your opponent's arm is still coiled. You tag him when he commit himself to a stroke.
Then swiftly moving in, thrusting the knife in the torso (preferably hitting an organ) is how you kill. After the thrust, you can do even more damage by twisting/slicing as the weapon comes out and making sure the shock incapacitate your opponent.
| QUOTE |
| I said slicing motion are defensive in nature and slicing the arm of the attacker is exactly what I meant. I doubt you've been thaught to target the bicep while your opponent's arm is still coiled. You tag him when he commit himself to a stroke. Then swiftly moving in, thrusting the knife in the torso (preferably hitting an organ) is how you kill. After the thrust, you can do even more damage by twisting/slicing as the weapon comes out. |
Yeah, basically that's it. And since I am taught with the premise of me being the attacked, not the attacker, that's how I approach these situations. Except for surpirse attacks, like gesturing with the left (or feinting a punch) and slicing the armpit or the tigh with your previously concealed knife).
| QUOTE |
| And having your knife stuck in your opponent's stomach while he slashes his knife through your face is better? |
Your opponent isnt made of wood, your knife isn't going to get stuck in him anymore than whan you punch someone your fist will stick to his face, in order to avoid that then we should all slap instead of punch? 
The specific example mentioned was a stealth kill, that didn;t make your example any less odd.
The specific example mentioned was a stealth kill, that didn;t make your example any less odd.
| QUOTE |
| Then again, you're presumably american and not used to street thugs carrying anything else than firearms, so meh. |
Wow, condescending and lightly flaming half the boards in one move, you're an overachiever!
Maybe its just me, but the way I figure these abnormal damage codes is a result of a few things... I mean come on people, you really think after some 60 odd years no one would make new and improved bullets that are meant to make todays body armor as effective and bullet-stopping as paper? The 5.7mm bullet already does that to an extent...
And then there are the advances in medical science. What with the ability to load up people with foreign objects, replace lost limbs and organs in a matter of weeks and generally do things that make taking a few stabs to the gut seem trivial. That and a fact that some have mentioned around here before is that the human body can take quite a bit before it gives up and dies flat out. Normally it takes a wee bit of time for a person to bleed to death after getting a few gunshots or stabs.
And what is it with you people and thinking things like .45 ACP is up there with heavy pistol ammunition? I know its a pretty decent manstopper in all regards, but as long is there is war, as long as people want to kill people, as long as there is ways of defeating body armor. People will always invent new and interesting ammunition and firearms to make killing just that much easier.
Disclaimer: Follow this fools advice only if you like, he is only saying what he tells his whiney know-it-all players. Also it is my first time, be gentle. You may now resume the whole 'Stab-better-then-slash' thing.
And then there are the advances in medical science. What with the ability to load up people with foreign objects, replace lost limbs and organs in a matter of weeks and generally do things that make taking a few stabs to the gut seem trivial. That and a fact that some have mentioned around here before is that the human body can take quite a bit before it gives up and dies flat out. Normally it takes a wee bit of time for a person to bleed to death after getting a few gunshots or stabs.
And what is it with you people and thinking things like .45 ACP is up there with heavy pistol ammunition? I know its a pretty decent manstopper in all regards, but as long is there is war, as long as people want to kill people, as long as there is ways of defeating body armor. People will always invent new and interesting ammunition and firearms to make killing just that much easier.
Disclaimer: Follow this fools advice only if you like, he is only saying what he tells his whiney know-it-all players. Also it is my first time, be gentle. You may now resume the whole 'Stab-better-then-slash' thing.
And the Pistol has quickly morphed into a Knife. Someone, talk about APDS, quick!
| QUOTE (hermit @ Mar 1 2005, 07:48 PM) |
| Yeah, basically that's it. And since I am taught with the premise of me being the attacked, not the attacker, that's how I approach these situations. |
Yeah, and I was arguing with the premise that we're talking about a SRunner/attacjer intent on killing his target.
So we are agreed. Let's hug and make a happy dance.
Nah, forget it. It'll make you want to stab me.
| QUOTE |
| It'll make you want to stab me. |
Slash.
hermit, you're talking about someone with high enough skill to pick and choose what they're going to slash. in that case, the extra successes are going to stage up the damage anyway. if you're talking about joe average, stabbing's the best way to go.
| QUOTE (hermit) | ||
Slash. |
Tastes great!
| QUOTE (hahnsoo @ Mar 2 2005, 03:10 AM) | ||||
Tastes great! |
Eh? Well, a bit sinewy, and possibly gives you weird sensations (all these drugs ...)
| QUOTE (Rastus) |
| Maybe its just me, but the way I figure these abnormal damage codes is a result of a few things... I mean come on people, you really think after some 60 odd years no one would make new and improved bullets that are meant to make todays body armor as effective and bullet-stopping as paper? The 5.7mm bullet already does that to an extent... And then there are the advances in medical science. What with the ability to load up people with foreign objects, replace lost limbs and organs in a matter of weeks and generally do things that make taking a few stabs to the gut seem trivial. That and a fact that some have mentioned around here before is that the human body can take quite a bit before it gives up and dies flat out. Normally it takes a wee bit of time for a person to bleed to death after getting a few gunshots or stabs. And what is it with you people and thinking things like .45 ACP is up there with heavy pistol ammunition? I know its a pretty decent manstopper in all regards, but as long is there is war, as long as people want to kill people, as long as there is ways of defeating body armor. People will always invent new and interesting ammunition and firearms to make killing just that much easier. Disclaimer: Follow this fools advice only if you like, he is only saying what he tells his whiney know-it-all players. Also it is my first time, be gentle. You may now resume the whole 'Stab-better-then-slash' thing. |
Counter: don't you think, in 60 yers, they'll have developed armor that stop bullets like rain drops?
This line of reasoning works fine if you assume that 60 years is long enough to break the laws of physics and not carry over those developments to any other fields. In reality, ammunition development will progress alongside firearms, armor, and tons of other things. Also note that while the 5.7x28mm round is kind of interesting, it makes serious tradeoffs to achieve penetration in a small form factor. Among other things, it has trouble with killing people, which is kind of significant.
If you make a bullet harder to defeat armor, you trade off barrel wear and cost. If you make it faster, you trade off weapon size or ammunition size. If you make it smaller and lighter, you trade off lethality. Materials engingeering will advance, but physics isn't going to change, and it's unreasonable and silly to assume that a weapon that could kill you today won't kill you if our cars start to fly tomorrow. Modern medicine can do some incredible life saving things, but a musket or a 1911 made in 1911 will kill me just as well as it would have a hundred or two hundred years back.
| QUOTE (Arethusa) |
| Modern medicine can do some incredible life saving things, but a musket or a 1911 made in 1911 will kill me just as well as it would have a hundred or two hundred years back. |
On the other hand, nowadays we can harvest your organs and stick them into an alcoholic IV-drug abuser with Hepatitis. That's progress, right?
I think from both the trauma and the medicine point of view, we've become more time-efficient. We can kill faster, more accurately, and with greater magnitude than ever before, but due to full-body imaging, anesthesia, and antisepsis/antibiotics, we can also save a lot more lives than we could before. The biggest killer of the Civil War wasn't weapons, it was dysentery, and it made a whole generation of soldiers into opium addicts (the only medicine they had). Now we have Imodium AD... nifty!
| QUOTE (BitBasher @ Mar 1 2005, 07:56 PM) |
| Your opponent isnt made of wood, your knife isn't going to get stuck in him anymore than whan you punch someone your fist will stick to his face, in order to avoid that then we should all slap instead of punch? |
That's not actually true. With knives it isn't that significant a problem, at least not since the invention of the scramasax, but there is some sticking present there.
~J
Bit, is your fist actually penetrating his skin, and entering a hole? No? Then in order to be an apt analogy, your knife stab wouldn't be allowed to penetrate the skin either, which, while making it definately not stick, is a very poor stab.
As far as slashing is concerned, I know some kali knives (I can't remember the name of them) are only a few inches long, and slightly curved. They're made for fast, quick slashing techniques, not for stabbing, and they are quite effective at what they do. That may/may not have influenced the original posters post. Also, there are a number of recorded case studies where someone was mugged, fought the mugger, was stabbed a number of times, defeated the mugger in combat, only to bleed to death minutes later. I've also heard people stating that they thought a stab wound was only a particularly strong punch, but it might only be because organs weren't penetrated.
As far as slashing is concerned, I know some kali knives (I can't remember the name of them) are only a few inches long, and slightly curved. They're made for fast, quick slashing techniques, not for stabbing, and they are quite effective at what they do. That may/may not have influenced the original posters post. Also, there are a number of recorded case studies where someone was mugged, fought the mugger, was stabbed a number of times, defeated the mugger in combat, only to bleed to death minutes later. I've also heard people stating that they thought a stab wound was only a particularly strong punch, but it might only be because organs weren't penetrated.
No, it's probably because the pain nerves mostly end very quickly as you get below the skin. A long, shallow slash is going to feel like one, while most people are going to be expecting a deep stab to hurt more than it does.
~J
~J
The coolest part about Light Pistols is loading them with APDS and giving them to every guard in a facility (except the few troll killers running around with shotguns and gyrojets). Nobody will bother to steal them and with ten or so guards constantly pounding the characters, they'll either play smart or start taking damage - without you having to fudge dice or kill anyone.
Yep...and then my characters will proceed to loot every single guard they kill because APDS ammo is so frickin hard to get.
| QUOTE (DocMortand) |
| Yep...and then my characters will proceed to loot every single guard they kill because APDS ammo is so frickin hard to get. |
Nah, not the troll-killers. At least, not the trollkillers with shotguns.
Except it's Light Pistol APDS. And if they have that kind of time, then they are ready for bigger guns being fired at them anyway.
So? One of them has a fixer who would most likely be interested in obtaining some. Just like GMs who go crazy nuts with monowire, only to have someone buy some cutters and a spool, spool up 10-20ft of it, apologize to the fixer for cancelling the job, and call it a job well done.
| QUOTE (Tarantula) |
| One of them has a fixer who would most likely be interested in obtaining some. |
Really? But no one but an idiot would carry a light pistol.
It's not that much money (10 rounds net a fence sale of 21¥), and they shouldn't have the time to loot enough guards to make it worthwhile. Since most of the rounds will be inside them anyway. And finally, note that most NPCs are running away after a Moderate wound, so maybe Light Pistols are perfectly right with proper conceal requirements.
*thunk thunk thunk*
I was being sarcastic about the knife thing 
Are you hitting your head because of me? As I've said before, realism kills. Ficition is fun. YMMV.
Realism kills? Fiction is fun?
I'm not even sure how to respond to that.
I'm not even sure how to respond to that.
Like I want you to.
light pistol APDS is a pretty handy thing to have, if you're using a SuperMach. and if you've got a few hundred rounds of light pistol APDS rounds, a SuperMach might not be a bad investment.
of course, you can always just say that the rules are crazy, and that different weapons in the same class dont' always take the same ammo.
of course, you can always just say that the rules are crazy, and that different weapons in the same class dont' always take the same ammo.
| QUOTE (Tarantula @ Mar 1 2005, 08:41 PM) |
| I've also heard people stating that they thought a stab wound was only a particularly strong punch, but it might only be because organs weren't penetrated. |
You don't have pain receptors inside your body cavity, so a stab wound will generally trigger fewer of them than a slash that goes across a large section of skin. A slash will generally hurt more, but a stab is much more likely to be serious. Given two knife fighters of equal skill, I'd put the odds in favor of the one who tried stabbing, as opposed to slashing with all his attacks.
And I don't know, but the thought of light pistol APDS rounds make my head want to head deskward too.
My example wasn't 2 knife fighters, but a mugger with a knife, against a muggee with his fists.
Re: Tumbling bullets
5.45x39mm FMJ fired from an AK-74, tumbles quite reliably and rapidly
7.62x39mm FMJ fired from an AK-47, tumbling occurs far into the medium and might not occur on limb shots, etc.
7.62x51mm FMJ (NATO sniper rifles and GPMGs), tumbles more readily than the shorter and blunter 7.62x39mm but still quite a distance into the medium
9x19mm FMJ (NATO pistols, SMGs), tumbles far into the medium (doesn't really matter if it does thanks to the shape of the bullet)
These two 5.56x45mm NATO FMJs would be shown as tumbling, only at short ranges they tend to violently fragment just as they begin to tumble.
So, like Arethusa said, most bullets do tumble. One obvious counter-example are deforming bullets, bothfrom handguns and from rifles, which are designed not to tumble.
5.45x39mm FMJ fired from an AK-74, tumbles quite reliably and rapidly
7.62x39mm FMJ fired from an AK-47, tumbling occurs far into the medium and might not occur on limb shots, etc.
7.62x51mm FMJ (NATO sniper rifles and GPMGs), tumbles more readily than the shorter and blunter 7.62x39mm but still quite a distance into the medium
9x19mm FMJ (NATO pistols, SMGs), tumbles far into the medium (doesn't really matter if it does thanks to the shape of the bullet)
These two 5.56x45mm NATO FMJs would be shown as tumbling, only at short ranges they tend to violently fragment just as they begin to tumble.
So, like Arethusa said, most bullets do tumble. One obvious counter-example are deforming bullets, bothfrom handguns and from rifles, which are designed not to tumble.
| QUOTE |
| What i hear you shouting is the problem, ?????? well short of walking around with a small arsenal, which is cool but can be abit tricky.......... how can i get more power out of the pistols, as they are good if you cant walk around with a shot gun etc. |
Honestly I took one look of the "This fire arm does this kinda damage" and instantly put those rules on Ignore. IMHO/HouseRule, the kind of damage your fire arm does matters less upon what kind of Fire Arm you are using, and more upon "... what kinda rounds you puttin through that barrel???"
Suggestions
1: Start packing Rounds such as Depleted Uranium (coated in Lead, and then Teflon) Explosive Rounds, and Sabot ( lil teeny slug with flechette packed around it, no gunpowder, instead Rocket Propellent )
2: Called shots are your freind. Nothing is wrong with declaring your actions as "I am putting a bullet between his eyes, where his eyeball should be, through his heart, up his nose, across his nasal cavity, etceteray adnauseum.
| QUOTE (Weredigo) |
| Honestly I took one look of the "This fire arm does this kinda damage" and instantly put those rules on Ignore. IMHO/HouseRule, the kind of damage your fire arm does matters less upon what kind of Fire Arm you are using, and more upon "... what kinda rounds you puttin through that barrel???" Suggestions 1: Start packing Rounds such as Depleted Uranium (coated in Lead, and then Teflon) Explosive Rounds, and Sabot ( lil teeny slug with flechette packed around it, no gunpowder, instead Rocket Propellent ) 2: Called shots are your freind. Nothing is wrong with declaring your actions as "I am putting a bullet between his eyes, where his eyeball should be, through his heart, up his nose, across his nasal cavity, etceteray adnauseum. |
You've apparently put most of the SR rules on ignore.
Translations (for those that speak Shadowrun, not Weredigo'ese):
1) Those are called APDS or AV rounds. The ones you mention after that are called Explosive or EX rounds. There are rules for all these rounds you mention either in the main SR3 book or the CC. For a nice change of pace, maybe you could give out advice in SR terms rather than otherwise.
2) I like called shots, but you're insane. Read the rules for called shots. They don't work like you seem to think they do, and probably never will. They can bypass armor, or they can bump up the damage code by one. Calm down.
Reminds me, what do DU round count as? My character found some recently (the GM explicitly said they were DU), and I am a bit puzzled as to whether they'd be considered standard AV ammo or some form of beefed up AV ammo. He seems not to have made up stats for them himself. Any suggestions?
Reminds me, what do DU round count as? My character found some recently (the GM explicitly said they were DU), and I am a bit puzzled as to whether they'd be considered standard AV ammo or some form of beefed up AV ammo. He seems not to have made up stats for them himself. Any suggestions?
They don't really count as anything. None of the "official" descriptions of any canon ammo type are depleted uranium. Some of us (the same some of us who tend to make up calibers for various damage codes, I'd imagine) use depleted uranium as a descriptor for AV rounds, but it could just as easily be APDS, or something entirely new and different your GM cooked up.
| QUOTE (Cynic project) |
| Torzzz, froma meta game point of view, you should use a heavy pistol. They are just about as easy to hide as light pistols and are just about as good as any other type of guns,well short of heavy weapons. But If you go about and kill the people keeping your 600K I would say you should get yourself a a laser pistol. Cause nothing says it your time to die like lasers. |
Nice point I will look at getting one............. i was shuch a nice child!
Torz x
| QUOTE (Crimsondude 2.0) | ||
What is a tumbler bullet, and where can I get such badassery? |
Don't think you can get them in the game as such but if you had ballistics it would be a simple matter of weighting the bullet at one end so it would 'tumble' when it left the barrel of the gun. I think it would come under the fabled 'house rule' situation though!
I plan to make some as i have balistics as a skill, dont get me onto the things you can do with shotgun carts and a few well placed chemicals!!
torz x
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