So... Shadowrun 4. It's coming. Soon. Shinier than ever (sorry, grittier. No, darker. Er... )

Please don't let it be a d20 system.....

Vampires aren't supossed to cry.

It is not d20.

Nor d12.

Actually it is... D6!!!!

Rejoice!

Funny how the official site says nothing about this news.
They still working the new page or something?

They're all at GAMA. This is not a joke, honest.

There's a big GAMA convention so my guess is that everyone is at GAMA right now.

The mechanics are changing, but it will still use the standard bucketload of D6 we all love.

I guess the page will be updated later today, when Rob comes back at the hotel or something.

Any sneak previews for those of use too sick to attend GAMA?

Unfortunately, other than the promo text and information about the dev blog that is located in the sticky post in this forum, there's nothing we can tell you. Expect more information to be coming from the FanPro contingent in the coming weeks -- I know they're all pretty much offline at GAMA this week, but we wanted to get the announcement posted as soon as it was public.

Like Paolo said, expect the mechanics to be "new but familiar." I know that's vague, but that's probably the best description I can come up with.

It's definitely not going to be d20 and it's definitely not going to be a simple rehashing of existing SR3 rules.

I dig the system but combat can be really slow at times. I've heard that complaint alot. I dig the simple is better approach. I played Cyber-Hero once and a 1 minute RL combat event took like 3 hours. I'm definately curious now. Hopefully there will be some fun goodies. Is Fanpro making a major investment in this release? How compatible will the new and old system be?

Yeah, I love SR, but if one thing can be said about the existing rules, they are definitely not streamlined. Even from a writer's perspective, it's pretty hellish having to cross-reference my entire collection to find a rule or make sure something I'm writing doesn't conflict with a rule somewhere.

From what I gather, streamlining will be a significant SR4 goal.

Well, combat, no matter the system can be slow.
I've had D&D fights last 3 hous because of the dice rolls involved and it's a much simpler system than SR3rd.

I want to see a streamlining of the various subsystems so they convey a more unified sense of process. If you know the matrix aspect really well, you can get by with the vehicle and magical stuff, because though the terms change, the basic thought process is the same. ("I want to accomplish TASK#1, if this were in the astral plane, I'd take this base number, subtract this modifier add some others and roll the dice. Let's double check the book, well, we had the wrong modifier, but the right process") such a streamlining would make it simpler for GM's, young and old to adjudicate on the fly more easily than the current systems where the various sub-components of SR are so widely varying it's not funny.

I remember when 2nd edition came out. Back then you could get on Genie and download some of the rough drafts for rules. That was during the birth of the ISP. I wonder now in the more advanced worlds if they'll be distributing free downloads to let players look at the system. I remember the buzz that "EVERYTHING" was going to Stagging two. Of course that was when I was in Highschool, didn't have a girl friend, and still had to get booze out of my parents Liquor cabnet. Now I'm considerably older I wonder if Rob will follow that same method. I like how they're "updating" the wireless technology. That has always been a gripe of mine. That SR was sort of falling behind the times.

Shadowrun is hands down the best rule system for combat and magic I've ever played with. I hope the streamlining occurs mainly with the rigging and decking rules. I'm really looking forward to the new edition!!!!!!

okay, the big question: are they going to try to make SR4 as 'backwards-compatible' as SR3 was to SR2, thereby retaining most of the horrible insanity that would necessarily be brought along with such a move, or are they going to start from scratch and build the system from the ground up, the way god intended?

I'm in shock. Total shock. I'm freaking out. 4th edition?

*rocks back and forth in a corner, clutching SR3*

And where do the forth coming releases fit into this? Running Wild and other whatnots? Are they going to release new SR3 materials just months before SR4? That seems a little silly.

I wonder if they'll change the part of the shadowrunrpg.com faq that says that they're not going to make a 4th edition...

-Joe

Forget everything else, the all important question:

Will it be hardcover?

Please?

I'm hoping for a complete rebuild:
Allows the chance to shake out the insanity you mentioned.
Allows them the opportunity to introduce new mechanics more smoothely.
Everyone will have to relearn the processes (yes this is a good thing, think how many games you've played where you said "Really, but it was this way before." gone a checked and found out you had been playing wrong). Yes this will still happen to a degree, but D&D 3.0 and 3.5 were better for it and so would SR4.
Fanpro and Wizkids will make more money because more books will be needed, which, while bad for our wallets is good for our hobby so they won't have to go away or sell everythig to Hasbro (Wizards of the Coast)...
Hopefully they will write the new ruleset in such a way that the inevitable expansion books will only contain new programs, new vehicles, new cyber, etc. and not new rules adding unnecessary complexity.

My mistake, I think they already took that part out of the faq. Good move fellas.

-Joe

Also I remember when D&D 3.5 came out and they claimed that you could still use all your 3.0 stuff, but then lo and behold the "complete X" line came out to replace all of the old books. I have more respect for the makers of SR, but that doesn't stop the deja vu from hitting me square in the nuts this time around.

-Joe

I like your style Nikoli... I think that would be the way to go.

and Dunner- i think the second blurb on the sticky thread said it was hard cover.

Well, to be fair, a lot of the Complete line was bringing the 3.0 soft books into 3.5 in addition to introducing a host of new stuff. But that's irrelevant, as we're here to kibitz about SR4

With respect to that, I imagine that a new set of the big 5 rulebooks will be forthcoming:

Magic
Guns
Cyber
Matrix
Vehicles

Why wouldn't they publish them? Gaming companies make money through seeling books.

Actually, with all the books still coming out, I bet that SR4 will include some sort of conversion guideluines to use your old books, as SR3 did with SR2. (Or was ist SR2 with SR1? I don't remember clearly, but ONE book did it. *g*)

well, SR2 did have a reprint of updated SR1 material and SR 3 did the same for SR2. Chances are, they'll reprint some stuff with new stats, after all, I like the traditional names they have. I don't care if my Heavy Pistol is an Ares Predator or a Townsend ClownKiller2000 so long as it shoots straight and has an integral smartlink.

While I imagine there will be new versions of "the cyber book", "the magic book", etc. I don't believe they'll be like what you see now. Part of the whole problem with SR3 that SR4 is trying to solve is that there's an endless pile of rules and mechanics which gets larger with each book (and not all of these are optional, except by GM caveat). So (and this is purely my speculation here), I would imagine that the "SR4 Cyber book" would be formatted around showing you what you can do with the rules that are in the SR4 basic rulebook, not adding to them much. And what adding to them does get done will probably follow existing basic systems that are universal for the game (just like d20 stuff revolves around the d20 test).

Woah. For the first time in my RPG career, I'm feeling sentimental about an edition change.

Am I the only one who's stunned by the 5-year leap?

It sounds to me like "System Failure" is going to fill in that 5 year gap with some choatic, post apocolyptic "oh my effing god the matrix just crashed" type stuff...

Most of them are also setting material, not rules material, meaning they won't be as obsolete by a rules change. The timeline is advancing a bit with SR4, but it won't make the stuff in the forthcoming SR3 releases totally useless.

Did you hear that.....It sounds like Deus.......Here kitty kitty kitty...Here kitty kitty kitty.......Any plans for new Novels?

Not really.
The tech in SR 3 was dated and based on the 80's concept of miniturization. Our tech level and the general populace understanding of tech has easily doubled twice since this journey began in SR1.

We have cell-phones the size of 3 credit-cards stuck together.
We have civilian, affordable Sub-orbitals (or will soon)
We have a flying car about to go into production (moller.com)
We have computers that are by a factor of 10 more powerful than anything dreamed of 20 years ago.
Our computer screen are capable of producing more colors than our brains can theoretically register.

The tech needs to be advanced in the SR universe, and that won't happen in a 1 year span, it needs 5 at least.

Here's another thing to totally speculate about: a streamlined rules system would make it far easier for Shadowrun to be licensed out to video/computer game development. Like the d20 system is for all the new D&D games.

Dunno if they plan to do anything like that, but it'd be much more likely.

One of the posts mentions "Source Material" will still be compatible. Does that mean 'fluff' or is that a nod towards backwards compatibility in the rules? I'd prefer totally new spin on things with everything integrated and streamlined (i.e. the weapon creation rules to be released in the forthcoming weapons book is used to create all of the weapons in the core book so they are 100% compatible). I'll be buying either way though. This is the best news I've heard since 3rd edition was released!