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Crimsondude 2.0
Well, it does kind of go against the stated attempts to make SR less "cartoonish" and "darker" than the kindergarten playtime that was SR2.
Penta
QUOTE (hobgoblin)
ok, i have now been able to read said text and im even more confused. its clearly aimed at being comedy. if you want the dark side you have humanis earlyer in the chapter.

basicly im even more confused as to what people are ranting and raveing about...

It wasn't supposed to be comedy!

SR's devs were constantly saying "Oh, we're trying not to be so cartoonish..." Blah, blah, blah.

SR was supposed to be getting darker. Then we get cartoon-as-plot.
hobgoblin
come on, you allready have the humanis earlyer in the chapter going on and on about how these changelings isnt humans. the interview is just a small chapter of the whole text and i fail to see how it can ruin the feel as much as you seems to be thinking it does.

in the ultimate end its the GM that sets the tone of the game. the book just gives diffrent stuff to play with. even captain chaos's comment about the text in question indicates that its supposed to be comical. but the overall image of surge is one of changes in all areas of life, good or bad.

want darker? you have the shedim. want darker? have some corp hire the group to grab some changeling for research reasons. want darker? have the group go to a meet at that new club and have it attacked by a something.

if you want it darker, you make it darker. the books only hand you the tools.

allso, there are some serious topics in there. she got fired after changeing, for some reason or other (a hit of racism?) and her family dont want to talk to her (she says the reason is her new work. who realy knows?). and now she is a porn star (for some thats more or less equal to being a whore).

point is that you need comedy to show the other side of the coin, without good you dont have evil, without fun you dont have sadness, you have to define both sides.
mfb
yes, the books are tools. and if you have crappy tools, you end up with crappy results.

the comedy could have easily been introduced without resorting to an anime icon with the connotations catgirls have.
hobgoblin
i fail to see the connection of the sr cat girl and anime, that is unless one is violently opposed to either cat girls or anime, or maybe both?

its a short bit of text about a girl that happend to gain cat features from a surge event and became a porn star. unless your into anime, and even then into the part of anime that have cat girls, i dont think you will do the connection. connection to furry yes, anime no...

and i again fail to see how this small text turns the whole idea of surge into a crappy tool. hell, even that marcupial pouch can be usefull. and its up to the gm to enforce the negative aspects of having say a security goon or a cop doing a seach and reacting negative to finding that the person is a changeling.

the cat girl is one of serveral views of surge presented in the book. its like reacting to a single grain of sand in a empty swimming pool.
mfb
the connection is that anthropomorphic female felines are an iconic and easily-recognized hallmark of anime. if you don't recognize the connection, it's simply because you don't watch any anime at all.

and the catgirl interview isn't the only thing that made SURGE crappy. marsupial goddamn pouches made SURGE crappy, among other things.
Crimsondude 2.0
The fishman was lame, too.

At least I can sort of buy the expression of mammalian traits after a couple of blows to the head.
hobgoblin
mfb, i watch anime, and the cat girl is maybe iconic for some types (most likely the type that cartoon network loves to send) anime but not all. far from it.

as for what effects surge can have, who knows what lies coded inside out genes? just get the right sequence in there an in theory anything can happen. uncludeing the fishman and the pouch...

but im going to leave it at that, maybe i should have done so long ago. i can see why people stop visiting this forum...
mfb
it's an icon that is very common in anime. no, it doesn't show up in every single anime out there--but neither do giant robots, tentacles, or long-haired pretty boys. all of these, however, have a significant presence in anime as a whole, which means that people readily relate them to anime as a whole.

we're talking about trends and opinions, which means there are very few hard facts. something has anime-like qualities because people say it does; the quality of "anime-like" is defined by group opinion. hard fact: one of the most common complaints about SURGE is that it's anime-like. there was a massive thread dealing pretty much solely with that issue, way back when YotC first came out. that pretty much means that SURGE is anime-like, because that's how lots of people are defining it.

hobgoblin
while i said i would not post i have to ask, are you talking about anime or hentai now?
Edward
The problem with catgirls in particular and furies in general is that there are a lot of people that really like them and a lot of people that really hate them, this may have something to do with the fact that some of those that like them have a modicum of artistic talent and a depraved imagination, and many of the others are more than happy to distribute there work. This I think is what makes a lot of people more from furies are irrelevant to furies are horrible.

As somebody that watches a reasonable amount of anime, and has seen a not insignificant amount of fury work (both pornographic and tasteful) I would have to say that anime dose not have more than its fare share of cat girls. The ones shown on TV that I have seen didn’t include any and from some time at the local anime club I can only recall 2 shows that included cat girls (out of maybe 30 I have seen), maybe I am unusual in that I have looked at fury fan sites and noticed that about 15-25% of the drawings could be considered anime styled

Of cause you don’t have to house rule the setting to get rid for the cat girls in your game, impose some limits on PC so they can’t be cat girls and remember that surge is rare enough that it would not be suspicious for your characters never to run into a fury.

And the section in question sounded like comedy to me, it sounded like the characters where making it comedy (although the interviewer did occasionally try to drag it to a more serious note) and the humanis take on surge did portray a much darker note.

Edward
mfb
tentacles and long-haired pretty boys are hardly the sole domain of hentai. for instance, FF7 has sephiroth, and Vampire Hunter D has all kinds of tentacles.

anime has more catgirls than any other genre/medium/whatever. how many sci-fi/fantasy novels, movies, or games have catgirls? how many western comic books or cartoons? sure, not every anime has catgirls--not even most of them. but the proportion of anime that does have catgirls (or long-haired pretty boys or giant robots or tentacles) is much higher than any other type of entertainment, and many people readily identify such features as being "anime".
nick012000
At this point, I feel obligated to point out the Shadowrun has hentai-style tenatacle monsters as well. Seriously. Take a look at the Incubus entry in Critters.
hobgoblin
want tentacles? go read a spider-man comic with doctor octopus in it nyahnyah.gif

long haired pretty boys? all over the place. and i have seen just as many short haired pretty-boys in anime as long haired. you may as well react to the fact that if they are not long haired they invariably have spiked hair nyahnyah.gif

as for cat girls? any woman have a cat in them. stroke them the right way and they purr, stroke the wrong way and the claws come out faster then fast.

oh and both dc comics and marvel have atleast 1 cat girl, black cat in marvel and cat woman in dc comics nyahnyah.gif both "rehabilitated" robbers wink.gif

gigant robots? watch dexters lab on cartoon network (ok so its satire on anime 99% of the time). and i wonder, is transformers defined as anime?

hmm, i was supposed to shut up was i not? nah...
mfb
eh. it doesn't have a tentacle-wrap attack, or anything, and it's shaped like an octopus. now, if it was some kind of half-man, half-squid, okay.

i didn't say non-anime entertainment had no catgirls. it's not like the japanese invented tentacles or long hair for guys. i said anime has significantly more.
nick012000
QUOTE (mfb)
eh. it doesn't have a tentacle-wrap attack, or anything, and it's shaped like an octopus. now, if it was some kind of half-man, half-squid, okay.

Yes, but it's an incubus, the name of a distictively sexual kind of demon. Besides, it has innate illusory powers. What's to stop it from using it's illusions to look more like a person? Besides, hentai tentacle-demons are defined by what they do, not what they look like...
hobgoblin
ugh, thanks for the mental image nick...
nick012000
QUOTE (hobgoblin)
ugh, thanks for the mental image nick...

You're welcome! biggrin.gif nyahnyah.gif
mfb
well, like i said, this is all about trends and opinion. i don't know of many people who associate the incubus with anime--either they're all saving it for their special games, or they're just not making the connection. lots of people make the connection with SURGE, specifically because of the catgirl.
Edward
I still say most of the fury art is not anime, I think it has something to do with the fact that the smooth lines of anime don’t do fur very well.

And there where more anthremorfic animals in Walt Disney studios than in the local anime club library. Although I concede I don’t recall any cats

It just doesn’t add up.

Edward
Crimsondude 2.0
The Siamese cats in Lady and the Tramp and the sequel(s?) were anthropomorphic in that they spoke.
JongWK
How did this drift to Disney characters is beyond my imagination. rotfl.gif
Crimsondude 2.0
QUOTE (mfb)
how many sci-fi/fantasy novels, movies, or games have catgirls? how many western comic books or cartoons?

Because mfb had to go and ask this.
Kremlin KOA
Guys if you want to see the darkier side of Surge, join one of my games. The cat girl got Vivisected by Edward's character's employers. (the Timothy Carter character he mentioned earlier BTW) Mr Carter then saw his daughter about to be Vivisected and commited mass murder on a grand scale to save her. Dark enough for you?
mfb
no. nothing is dark enough for catgirls.
Kremlin KOA
My real worry is the problem with the White house Bunny girls... after all the prez is a direct descendant of Hef

Oh and I didn't ask if that was mean enough to the cat girl, only if that was a dark enough take on surge for it to be SRish
hobgoblin
not likely if mfb is to make the final judgement...
Edward
My daughter is never going anywhere near than man

Timothy carter
hobgoblin
huh?
Edward
Timothy carter’s 12 year old daughter is a bunny girl, he is perhaps a little over protective but after aztechnolegy was going to vivisect her do you really blame him.

Edward
Penta
Edward, put down the crack.
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