GURPS? Wounds don't go up either, at high levels (assuming you're not playing characters with superhuman advantages) the person who can feint better wins, and no matter how good you are, if you go up against three or more people who know what they're doing, you'll probably die.

I'm sure there are other examples...

Six times, to be precise.

That game is the second-best game ever.

edi: third-best. There's a game called HOL - Human Occupied Landfill that's not really intended to be played, in which you can actually die during character creation. It's not that uncommon. And even if you survive, you have traits such as:

God decides to hold you personally responsible for the death of Jesus Christ. Roll 1d6 each day. 1-3: you die. 4-6: stigmata.

I'm not referring to you if that's what you're asking. I just get the impression that a some people are ready to walk now. Although I guess if they still bother posting, they're still hoping. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's just the impression I get.

Now that is cool. You can die during chargen? HOW SO? Please post a short summary of chargen!

And more experienced Traveller characters don't get tougher (in fact, in the original system you hardly advanced at all).

Original Traveller had the first "life path" system, broken into four year "terms". Every term you had to make a survival roll or your character died before he ever entered play (a later optional rule was that he would only be seriously wounded and had to stop chargen and enter play at that point).

I can think of a dozen games off the top of my head where experienced characters don't get much tougher than the newbies.

You have been cheated, Citizen. The Computer, in its infinit wisdoms has provided all Citizens of Alpha Complex with five back-up copies.

Short short version (since this is the SR4 and not the HOL forum): lots of tables. Lots and lots of tables. Tables with exciting names such as "Really Bad Decisions," "Cornholed by God" (where my previous example came from), and "Almond Joy" (d6. 1-3: Feel Like A Nut (+1 to Nuts). 4-6: Don't.)

Many of these tables have death, dismemberment, or ending up with the surgically-attached voicebox of Gilbert Gottfried.

There is also one expansion book for this game, entitled 'Buttery Wholesomeness.' Buy them today.

*Waves fist and yells*

Awesomeness.

good point. My fear/belief is that they are so desperate to hit THE event that they won't bother to correct them. given the choice between getting it right and hitting the date, they'll go for marketing over quality. Seems unfair of me? Well since I view the whole thing as a money grab by fanpro, I don't really care. When they say the system(3rd Ed) is fatally flawed but not how, and those of us who play it don't agree anyway, so they are already needing to convince me to spend my mnoey on their prodcut and they are making a mess of it.

I had been in the "probably buy the main book" camp but not any more. they more relaease info I read here ocnvinces me to keep my money in my pocket.

I have, long ago, actually run a Hol game. We found out the game isn;t really meant to be played, as it's missing several key things. like a lot of .. rules.

TFTFB is fantastic too. I give mad props to any game with the skills:
Don't Point That At My Planet Gun
Make Soft Thing Scream and Bleed
Make Soft Thing Scream and Bleed With Panache

But I may be mixing the two games, I did them right about the same time.

Yeah, but the sourcebook(s) are a heckuva lot of fun to read.

I'm slowly joining you. I was going to hand $40 to someone I know who's going to GenCon; but now I think I'll wait for my FLGS to get a copy, then flip through it. I used to buy Shadowrun books sight unseen; this will be the first time I question the purchase.

In May 1943 wing comander Guy Gibson lead a specially trained squadron of Lancaster bombers to breach the great hydroelectric dams of the Ruhre Valley. Each bomber could only carry a single bomb, designed to bounce along the tops of the waves, over antitorpedo defenses and lodge themselves against the base of the dams. Most planes left for home after dropping their bombs and seeing they had not breached the dam with it. After dropping his bomb, Gibson repeatedly flew over the dams, drawing german fire on to his plane and so drawing it away from the in coming bombers, giving them a better chance of getting their bombs into the sweet spot to blow the dam or maybe, combined with earlier bombs, reach critical mass to see the apparently imovable dams go.

It was made into a movie that so influenced a young man that in his great film, they later took the dialogue of the air attack directly into his movie
"How many guns do you see?"
"See about 20 guns. some of the ground some on the tower."

Gibson won the Victoria Cross for his actions, and against all possible hope the dams were indeed "busted."

@Traveller:

It's a bit more complicated:

+ You do 4 year terms (later versions split this in 1year assignments)
+ One possible result of the term resolution is "You die"
- The GM can read this as "You got badly hurt and mustered out"
- The longer you follow a carreer (The more skills you get) the more likely
you got killed. Served as a method to prevent superskilled methusalems
+ Existed only in the original (Little Black Book) version
+ Later editions made this "Automatical mustering out, GM can decide: You die)

@MegaDamage:

RIFTS! not GURPS. GURPS has a unified damage system that can result in 6Wx50 damage if hit by a 120mm Gaus Cannon

@No increasing hitpoints

+ The T20 version from QLI has a D20 variant with fixed hitpoints that works
quite well with modern settings and can be retro-fitted to D20 games

+ Cyberpunk, GURPS, Traveller, T20, Deadlands(Original), LUG-Trek all used
fixed hitpoints as does 7th Sea or StarWars D6

+ RIFTS use increasing HP but it doesn't matter (100HP => 1MD and a typical Laser rifle does 3D6MD per hit)


Birdy

Sounds reasonable