I'm with the crew that says game mechanics are a part of the game. Any of you around for the 1st ed? Really early stuff? The gamem echanics were really clumsy for ocmbat and it was a turn off.
They may not dictate if you're an elf or the GM is a jerk, but they can get in the way of play or speed it along. The best mechanics don't seem to even exist. For example in AD&D how often did a game jamb up when a neophite needed to be told which of those funky dice needed to be rolled? currently, your score in a skill is X roll X dice.
Full Version: a(nother) playtester's view of SR4
The worst part was that the story and setting were really badass.
Is that bad ass in a good way, or bad in the Huey Lewis line "sometimes bad is bad."
They get away from Seattle? that will make it harder for existing gamers to bother staying on board.
They get away from Seattle? that will make it harder for existing gamers to bother staying on board.
oh, re: matrix rules. these are awesome. with a few minor tweaks (minor tweaks of the sort that will keep me from buying SR4 even if everything else gets magically fixed), i'd hold them up as the standard by which all other cyberspace game systems should be judged.
| QUOTE |
| QUOTE Enough successes means high enough skill. Even with the hold out, if the punker's skill is even 4 (Which I would consider high for a punker), the best he can hope for is a serious wound. If he gets all successes, and if the samurai gets none. You're forgetting combat pool. 4 dice into the roll makes for a maximum of 8 successes, more than enough to push the damage into deadly. If the sam is caught by surprise, he can only hope to have a high enough body. |
The 'Punker' is getting to be less and less a punker..Just the 4 in firearms is more than I'd assign a punker.
And yeah, d20 cyber does suck - But I'd just change those rule to make them more SR compatable. I'm assuming that the new source book will make getting cyber easier - including full borgs.
| QUOTE |
| a level 15 character is going to kill a level 1 character every time. one problem i see with SR4, honestly, is that it tries too hard to keep the playing field level, giving characters very little room for growth. so, no, SR4 != d20 Future with elves. but it's certainly a step in that direction--several steps, all told. |
Yeah, but the equavalent of a 15 th level SR charcter will in all likely hood snuff out the begining level sr character. He'd throw so many combat dice, pool dice and whatever else he has and the beginer will not be able to resist.
| QUOTE (Snow_Fox) |
| Is that bad ass in a good way, or bad in the Huey Lewis line "sometimes bad is bad." |
...
yes. but give that 0-karma character a rocket launcher, and he can concievably toast any character you throw at him. even a 500-karma monster will need to pay attention to a nobody with a rocket launcher--the nobody probably won't win, but he'll stand a chance if a few die rolls go his way.
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| okay. a couple things i posted seem to have been unclear. SR4 is still a lethal game. lethality was merely an example i was using to illustrate the point that mechanics impact the feel of a setting. i compared SR4 to d20 rather than WoD because, as in d20, i feel restricted by the die rolls. in WoD, you can split your pools to accomplish things, or dump all your pool on a single important action--similar in philosophy (if not execution) to SR3's pool system. in SR4, i feel that control has been lost. like i said, if all you're looking at is the fact that you roll handsfull of dice and count successes? yeah, it's SR; yeah, WoD might be a more apt comparison. i'm looking at the overall direction of the game, though, and that overall direction feels like what-you-see-is-what-you-roll, in regards to your charsheet. |
Yeah, but pools are a fairly flawed concept anyway.
You talk about dumping all your pool into a single important action. Ok, you can do that to shoot somone or control a car or cast a spell or do something in the matrix.
But you can't do that to open a lock, fix an engine, dredge up an obscure fact, or do it for any of the many, many skills that don't get pools but that you might really want or need to accomplish asap.
If you want to represent 'giving it your all' then thats what karma/edge rerolling of failures should represent, imho.
Given that (as I understand it) in SR4 you are rolling skill+attribute number of dice you are effectively (in SR3 terms) getting to use your attribute as a 'pool' that refreshes every action.
[sarcasm]If you really want to get that yummy SR3 'tactical' feel you so miss, just voluntarily roll less dice unless you think you *really* need to succeed...[/sacrcasm]
After all, you still get to make the tactical choices of what cover to take, who to shoot, how to work your way round to a better position etc (things I consider 'real' tactics) as opposed to choosing whether to shoot as effectively as you can or not to... and why should shooting as well as you can affect your ability to resist damage, or mean that you only get to fire one or two good shoots before suddenly forgetting how to for 3 seconds...?
The same is true in d20 - that rocekt laucher is likely to do more damge that the characters MDT.
Not that I'm trying to defend one system over another - just pointing out simularities.
I'd still rather lay SR3.
Not that I'm trying to defend one system over another - just pointing out simularities.
I'd still rather lay SR3.
dice pools are not a flawed concept. they are flawed in execution. the concept--being able to focus yourself on one or more tasks in order to improve your chances, while lowering (or at least not raising) your chances with other tasks, is very sound.
if you're focused on shooting, you're not as focused on avoiding incoming fire. if you're focused on keeping your head down, you're not focused on making clean shots. it illustrates the process of combat nicely.
if you're focused on shooting, you're not as focused on avoiding incoming fire. if you're focused on keeping your head down, you're not focused on making clean shots. it illustrates the process of combat nicely.
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| dice pools are not a flawed concept. they are flawed in execution. the concept--being able to focus yourself on one or more tasks in order to improve your chances, while lowering (or at least not raising) your chances with other tasks, is very sound. if you're focused on shooting, you're not as focused on avoiding incoming fire. if you're focused on keeping your head down, you're not focused on making clean shots. it illustrates the process of combat nicely. |
Well, the concept that they can only be used for certain skills is flawed. As for 'keeping your head down adversely affecting your shooting' thats what the cover penalties represent.
Why should firing a shoot to the best of your ability *using the same amount of time as firing a mediocre shot* adversly affect your ability to *resist* (not necessarily *evade*) the effects of a wound?
Why should firing one or two good shots mean that you can't summon up the ability to do so again for 3 seconds, even though you may get to fire 6+ times in that period...
If you want to represent pulling out all the stops thats what rerolls are for. IMHO
these are specific objections to SR3 dice pool system. i'm not going to defend against these objections because i'm not defending SR3's dice pools. i'm defending the basic concept of players and GMs being able to emphasize certain rolls.
| QUOTE (Dice) |
| As for 'keeping your head down adversely affecting your shooting' thats what the cover penalties represent. |
You mean those optional penalties that aren't in the main combat section in SR3, but which rather are tucked away in the back of CC?
The concept of players and GMs being able to emphasize certain rolls is actually perfectly well implemented in the nWoD Willpower system. That might explain why I've been so stubborn about not accpeting their complete removal from SR4.
I asked these questions in another thread, but since no one's answered, I'm going to repost them here. As always, if these violate your NDA in any way, form, or fashion, feel free to let me know.
- Is there still a Dodge test in combat?
- Are there replacements for tactical pools? (Such as the Action pool from SR QuickStart.)
- Does the system run quicker overall, or does it take the same amount of time?
- Has the average lethality of the game increased, decreased, or stayed about the same?
- As a playtester, how many power levels have you run games for? And which ones? (e.g., Starting characters, 20-30 karma, 50-60 karma, 100+, etc.)
- How many dice rolls are necessary for resolution of a given task, such as combat?
- Is Edge mostly good for rerolls, like the existing Karma pool, or does it have a totally different mechanic?
- Can you permanently "burn" Edge like karma pool, or can you just spend it?
- Has anyone run a side-by-side comparison of similar scenarios in SR3 and 4, and rated them on how they're handled?
coyness of answer is a result of me honoring my NDA. the NDA's really, really loose; i'm basically trying to feel my way around it by going off what Goodman's said.
- i don't think i can answer questions on dodge.
- i would say no. the FAQs pretty much answer this; don't read anything into them.
- a lot of it runs faster.
- difficult question with a complex answer, much of which differs in intent versus execution. short answer... about the same. sorta.
- i've run starting characters only, so far.
- pleading the fifth.
- all i'll say about Edge is what the FAQ said: basically, Edge and Karma Pool fill similar functions.
- see above.
- yes. i was displeased with the results.
- i don't think i can answer questions on dodge.
- i would say no. the FAQs pretty much answer this; don't read anything into them.
- a lot of it runs faster.
- difficult question with a complex answer, much of which differs in intent versus execution. short answer... about the same. sorta.
- i've run starting characters only, so far.
- pleading the fifth.
- all i'll say about Edge is what the FAQ said: basically, Edge and Karma Pool fill similar functions.
- see above.
- yes. i was displeased with the results.
Hey, that's cool. I'm glad for what answers you can give. Thank you.
had a talk with some people. i'm not convinced that SR4 will be on any of my receipts, but i'm not as convinced of its doom as i was before the conversation. many of the things which i'd thought were largely set in stone, he contends are in flux. i'm going to leave off posting about SR4 until i get more information.
i told him i hoped i end up eating my words. i hate being wrong more than just about anything else in the world, and my assessment of SR4 is not exempt from that. but i'll wear a sandwich board to GenCon 2006 that reads "I WAS WRONG ABOUT SR4" if i'm an SR4 player by then.
i told him i hoped i end up eating my words. i hate being wrong more than just about anything else in the world, and my assessment of SR4 is not exempt from that. but i'll wear a sandwich board to GenCon 2006 that reads "I WAS WRONG ABOUT SR4" if i'm an SR4 player by then.
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| i told him i hoped i end up eating my words. i hate being wrong more than just about anything else in the world, and my assessment of SR4 is not exempt from that. but i'll wear a sandwich board to GenCon 2006 that reads "I WAS WRONG ABOUT SR4" if i'm an SR4 player by then. |
I don't know you well, but I respect you for that. There's a lot of people around here lately that seem like they'd rather hate it and be right. I appreciate your intial post, and your updates, and especially the fact that you're still working to get it all as best as it can be instead of doomsaying like you could be. So thanks.
*moves lawn chair back over to 'wait and see' camp*
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| but i'll wear a sandwich board to GenCon 2006 that reads "I WAS WRONG ABOUT SR4" if i'm an SR4 player by then. |
And nothing else?
Rrorw!
Oh man, I'm glad I wasn't drinking for that, or my Powerbook would be wearing coca-cola.
mfb, im looking forward to someone posting pics of that on this forum if it happens 
*welcomes fistandantilus3.0 into the wait and see camp*
*welcomes fistandantilus3.0 into the wait and see camp*
| QUOTE (hobgoblin) |
| *welcomes fistandantilus3.0 into the wait and see camp* |
back into the *wait and see camp*
oops 
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| many of the things which i'd thought were largely set in stone, he contends are in flux. |
If the 'stuff' that is so important to make mfb unenthusiatic about SR4 is still in flux, what are the chances of the game being ready for GenCon?
| QUOTE (SirBedevere) |
| If the 'stuff' that is so important to make mfb unenthusiatic about SR4 is still in flux, what are the chances of the game being ready for GenCon? |
According to my tentative Origins GMing schedule, I'll be running SR4 booth demos there. I'd say the odds are very good that it'll be ready for GenCon.
| QUOTE (SirBedevere) |
| If the 'stuff' that is so important to make mfb unenthusiatic about SR4 is still in flux, what are the chances of the game being ready for GenCon? |
Nobody in the game industry sleeps much in June or July.
Will anyone here be dissapointed if they take a little longer to make the game and it doesn't quite make Gencon? I know I won't be.
Doesn't matter if we are not. No game company worth it's salt would make a big fuss about a snazzy Gencon release and then flake on it.
I dunno, think of the free publicity
Indeed. Remember that bit where we're a comparatively small blip on the overall radar? Well, our opinion of whether or not it's important to make GenCon is like that times a bajillion.
~J
~J
My thoughts:
1. FanPro: Do not obsess about GenCon, please? Get it done, then worry about release. I think that after all the heartache, you really do owe your customers the consideration of being willing to delay it to at least do editing right.
2. I'm...very wait and see. Y'see, for me...It's been so long since I've actually played an RPG around a table, I doubt I ever will. SR is confined to MUSHing at the moment.
As such, my concerns are more in "does it run faster", "how do the power levels compare", and similar things. Specific mechanics? Eh. Automated.
3. Similar with the timeline, setting, and plot. As someone who (given the medium in which I play) necessarily cares more about that sort of stuff, System Failure and the time-leap makes me very nervous.
Thoughts of Battletech and the Clans come dancing in my head, and I didn't like that at all.
Adam? Synner? DS?
mfb?
Is anything about the setting post-jump worked out?
At least...what kind of tone are you aiming for?
1. FanPro: Do not obsess about GenCon, please? Get it done, then worry about release. I think that after all the heartache, you really do owe your customers the consideration of being willing to delay it to at least do editing right.
2. I'm...very wait and see. Y'see, for me...It's been so long since I've actually played an RPG around a table, I doubt I ever will. SR is confined to MUSHing at the moment.
As such, my concerns are more in "does it run faster", "how do the power levels compare", and similar things. Specific mechanics? Eh. Automated.
3. Similar with the timeline, setting, and plot. As someone who (given the medium in which I play) necessarily cares more about that sort of stuff, System Failure and the time-leap makes me very nervous.
Thoughts of Battletech and the Clans come dancing in my head, and I didn't like that at all.
Adam? Synner? DS?
mfb?
Is anything about the setting post-jump worked out?
At least...what kind of tone are you aiming for?
| QUOTE (Critias) | ||
And nothing else? Rrorw! |
I think you mean
Ah, clear headed, mature discourse. It is like fresh air to me.
Thanks mfb, your few posts have been a balm to me and I assume to many here.
And about the sandwich board....boxers or briefs?
Thanks mfb, your few posts have been a balm to me and I assume to many here.
And about the sandwich board....boxers or briefs?
Neither of those sound like sandwich board to me
~J
~J
| QUOTE (SirBedevere) | ||
If the 'stuff' that is so important to make mfb unenthusiatic about SR4 is still in flux, what are the chances of the game being ready for GenCon? |
most creative works are rarely done until the very day they have to send it of to the printers or whatever to get it out in time.
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| had a talk with some people. i'm not convinced that SR4 will be on any of my receipts, but i'm not as convinced of its doom as i was before the conversation. many of the things which i'd thought were largely set in stone, he contends are in flux. i'm going to leave off posting about SR4 until i get more information. |
I hope so MFB I really do. But most of the "still in flux" stuff I saw months ago, has turned intot he "set in stone" stuff. I think a lot of the ideas are ego driven and some people arn't willing to kill there babies.
| QUOTE (Cain) |
|
Sadly Cain, as a former playtester I can say that most of the questions you are asking are fairly specific and might go towards breaking of mfb's NDA. From what I've read on here and elsewhere, I'll go this far as to wager for guessing.
lethality... anything that is "simplified" is made more lethal. The reason for this is that the faster/grittier something happens, the less chances of a PC being able to work their way through a situation in enough detail to reflect their skill(s)/experience(s). Learned that during M&M playtestings that we did actually.
I kinda wish I had never had to get a life and start a business to pay mine own bills. When we playtested crap it was with existing characters (karma levels ranging from 150 earned to 2000+). I can imagine that in this at least, the idea of so many playtesters that I've heard have been involved is likely to cover that range as well.
Regarding resolution, if the number to resolve a single instance of combat is more than three (3) steps (the attack, the counterattack and the damage resistance test(s)), then wow has someone broken something.
Edge vs. Karma Pool. Hrm ... I don't think it's going to work exactly the same from what I have seen. And don't take this wrong, but if it's an "attribute" or a "skill" and it can be "burned" somehow ... that would be just about enough to make any long-term/veteran player I know quit. It was stupid enough to come up with "Fading" for a character type IMO, but to come up with a way to voluntarily burn skill/attribute points for success purposes??? Come on, even the initiatory "Asceticism" doesn't go this far.
and as soon as we get hold of enough SR4 information, we'll happily run a comparison. Hell, we'll do it out of nostalgia.
| QUOTE (hobgoblin) |
| most creative works are rarely done until the very day they have to send it of to the printers or whatever to get it out in time. |
As for reference books, they're usually done well beforehand and edited at least twice.
mfb, are there any revisions of your previous comments required since the "Preview in Game Trade Magazine" thread started?
Were you aware of the blurb before it was published?
Were you aware of the blurb before it was published?
| QUOTE (nezumi) | ||
As for reference books, they're usually done well beforehand and edited at least twice. |
well thats the problem now isnt it?
a rpg is a creative game, and therefor will be in a state of flux for as long as someone thinks that something needs to be fixed. this is similar to say computer games...
yet at the same time it needs to be about as clear as a refrence book (but then i dont feel those fit under the header of creative works) if not more so.
It really isn't a problem.
Firstly, your premise is wrong. The majority of creative works are finished approximately on time. Publishers do know to set deadlines such that they have slack time, since most creative works go through at least two revisions before being published. So from the authors point of view, they may be finishing right by the end, but from the publishers point of view, that's not the case.
Secondly, unlike the Shadows Of books, the core books are mostly about dice mechanics. Number crunching. Probability. They've already said the environment is not changing significantly, the change is in the mechanics behind the scenes. That may require creative thinking, but it's not creative like writing a novel. It's creating like writing a program. And only a very stupid or a very unfortunate programmer finishes his project JUST under the deadline.
If SoA were finishing just under the deadline, I could live with that. That the core book might be is a reason for concern, especially since the editors, publishers and authors seem to all be part of the same group. If they expect this edition to run even half as long as 3rd, it needs to be well done the first time or there will be no SR5.
Firstly, your premise is wrong. The majority of creative works are finished approximately on time. Publishers do know to set deadlines such that they have slack time, since most creative works go through at least two revisions before being published. So from the authors point of view, they may be finishing right by the end, but from the publishers point of view, that's not the case.
Secondly, unlike the Shadows Of books, the core books are mostly about dice mechanics. Number crunching. Probability. They've already said the environment is not changing significantly, the change is in the mechanics behind the scenes. That may require creative thinking, but it's not creative like writing a novel. It's creating like writing a program. And only a very stupid or a very unfortunate programmer finishes his project JUST under the deadline.
If SoA were finishing just under the deadline, I could live with that. That the core book might be is a reason for concern, especially since the editors, publishers and authors seem to all be part of the same group. If they expect this edition to run even half as long as 3rd, it needs to be well done the first time or there will be no SR5.
| QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0 @ Jun 2 2005, 02:58 AM) |
| There's a lot of people around here lately that seem like they'd rather hate it and be right. I appreciate your intial post, and your updates, and especially the fact that you're still working to get it all as best as it can be instead of doomsaying like you could be. So thanks. |
Like who?
| QUOTE (NeoJudas) |
| Edge vs. Karma Pool. Hrm ... I don't think it's going to work exactly the same from what I have seen. And don't take this wrong, but if it's an "attribute" or a "skill" and it can be "burned" somehow ... that would be just about enough to make any long-term/veteran player I know quit. It was stupid enough to come up with "Fading" for a character type IMO, but to come up with a way to voluntarily burn skill/attribute points for success purposes??? Come on, even the initiatory "Asceticism" doesn't go this far. |
Indeed. I seem to recall making a big deal about that very possibility last week.
ah, you have a point there nezumi.
still, there is what, 2-3 months now to finalize large parts of the mechanics?
i think ill state like i have allways done, ill pass my final judgment based on the finished product. and as i dont have the "luxury" that say mfb have of seeing it evolve that about the only time i can pass judgment.
alltho, i should maybe look over the playtester list and compare that to the people that comment in a negative way about the direction and outlook of sr4. if its a large part of the playtester group then it may well be a reason to worry...
still, there is what, 2-3 months now to finalize large parts of the mechanics?
i think ill state like i have allways done, ill pass my final judgment based on the finished product. and as i dont have the "luxury" that say mfb have of seeing it evolve that about the only time i can pass judgment.
alltho, i should maybe look over the playtester list and compare that to the people that comment in a negative way about the direction and outlook of sr4. if its a large part of the playtester group then it may well be a reason to worry...
Once you decide on a release date, it isvery difficult to change it. Printers are busy businesses, if you miss the slot you booked you might not get another for months.
Adverts in magazines are prepared and paid for several months before the schedulesd release date, miss it and you have to either redo you advertising campaign or release without publicity, which hurts sales considerably.
Distributors have to be arranged, and they want a firm date so the can sell it to their retailers. Warehousing has to be booked to hold the print run etc. Miss deadlines and you paid out money for nothing, and still need to redo it all when you do finally release, only because you missed the last release date the terms you get are worse and the diostributor is less enthusiastic about pushing it etc.
Potential customers are put off by the system not being available when it was advertised... they get annoyed at the retailer who can't say when they will have it in stock, they go back week after week being constantly disappointd, until they give up and buy a different product.
And so it goes...
Missing a publicised release date just to polish the product is worse (financially at least) than releaseing a slightly rough product on time. Sure, the few dedicated die-hards that agonise over every triviality might prefer the 'better' book late, but the vast majority of customers are those who buy it when it comes out due to the publicity around the launch, and make-do with, or house-rule, any slight inconsistencies or oversights in the rules.
Adverts in magazines are prepared and paid for several months before the schedulesd release date, miss it and you have to either redo you advertising campaign or release without publicity, which hurts sales considerably.
Distributors have to be arranged, and they want a firm date so the can sell it to their retailers. Warehousing has to be booked to hold the print run etc. Miss deadlines and you paid out money for nothing, and still need to redo it all when you do finally release, only because you missed the last release date the terms you get are worse and the diostributor is less enthusiastic about pushing it etc.
Potential customers are put off by the system not being available when it was advertised... they get annoyed at the retailer who can't say when they will have it in stock, they go back week after week being constantly disappointd, until they give up and buy a different product.
And so it goes...
Missing a publicised release date just to polish the product is worse (financially at least) than releaseing a slightly rough product on time. Sure, the few dedicated die-hards that agonise over every triviality might prefer the 'better' book late, but the vast majority of customers are those who buy it when it comes out due to the publicity around the launch, and make-do with, or house-rule, any slight inconsistencies or oversights in the rules.
| QUOTE |
| Missing a publicised release date just to polish the product is worse (financially at least) than releaseing a slightly rough product on time. |
As opposed to missing a publicized release date, period, more oft than not?
| QUOTE |
| ...but the vast majority of customers are those who buy it when it comes out due to the publicity around the launch, and make-do with, or house-rule, any slight inconsistencies or oversights in the rules. |
Yes, and they so enjoy doing it, too. Yessir. If given the option, they'd certainly rather have a subpar product than a fully polished one any day of the week.
Nevermind that they could have set the release date and did the publicity after they finished the product to begin with. That's just crazy talk. Better to be a bunch of cheap bastards and put out inferior products than to do a good job for the sake of doing a good job.
I think what this other playtester says sounds good. Itīs been some time since I posted frequently about SR4 and in the meantime Iīve stoped playing Shadowrun while waiting for the new edition. My team plays so infrequently nowadays, we would never ever reach the new editionīs timeline if we kept with our current game, and nobody feels motivated to play a campain that is doomed in a few months, not when there are plenty of other games to play. And when I get the new rules I want my players to understand them instantly. I want rules that I can basicly ignore alltogether and just make a die roll on the fly now and then. If itīs identical to nWoD I would still be happy as long as itīs seriously "dumbed down" to the point were you donīt have to think about the rules at all if you donīt want to. Iīve allready said goodbye to the old Shadowrun.
I might miss it in the future, but right now I breath a sigh of releif. All the work Iīve put down making the game playable. All the hanging around here looking for advice about the rules. Itīs all been for the world! Itīs all been for being able to play in the gameworld in spite of a hellish system.
I might miss it in the future, but right now I breath a sigh of releif. All the work Iīve put down making the game playable. All the hanging around here looking for advice about the rules. Itīs all been for the world! Itīs all been for being able to play in the gameworld in spite of a hellish system.
| QUOTE (Charon) | ||
Everyone who has ever lost a PC to a punker with a holdout pistol and a skill of 3, raise your hand and form a club. |
hand up ...
Ganger had skill of 3, used combat pool, scored 6 successes ... I had my first and only botch in my entire SR career ... Deadly wound ... Noone there to save my character in time ...
The only RPG I know that keeps long-term lethality is WHFRP. You don't really get more wounds, being hit is completely dependent on the attacker's skill, and each damage roll has a 1 in 10 chance of exploding (Rule of 10 I guess for d10s). Most characters have around 15 wounds.
WHFRP?
From the games I played, Cyberpunk 2020 is quite deadly. At least, weapon damage codes are much more realistic (assault rifles being significantly more powerful than either submachine guns or heavy pistols, for instance), and an even tighter damage bar than SR's. Then again, I never played a high-power CP campaign.
From the games I played, Cyberpunk 2020 is quite deadly. At least, weapon damage codes are much more realistic (assault rifles being significantly more powerful than either submachine guns or heavy pistols, for instance), and an even tighter damage bar than SR's. Then again, I never played a high-power CP campaign.
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