Once again I come to all ya'll with a player/group question. What do you do when your players bring other people to the game session? In the situation I'm experiencing, a player has begun bringing his girlfriend to the sessions. Now, I'm all for couples bonding or whatever by playing but she refuses to play, whines about him playing too long, constantly drags his attention away from the game, and about every other annoying behavior you can imagine. We have a few other players who bring other people to the games that are maybe interested in playing but want to see it done first, things like that which are totally fine. But, this situation is driving me nuts! I've told the player that if he brings her she has to play to help keep him in game and maybe get her interested so it doesn't become such a wedge between them, but they've blown that off. I'm to the point where if she comes over again I'm just not going to run the game. Any ideas on how to handle a sticky situation?
Much obliged.

By the way, I'm a girl so it's not a sexist thing...

girls love cake. arsenic cyanide, and also idiots like me who don't know the difference tastes like almonds. that's all i can say without violating my NDA!

Make very bad stuff happen to his character while he's busy appeasing his girlfriend.

If they don't play then they can't stay. It is a simple and reasonable rule. Those who may be interested in joining the game can be given throwaway characters based on the standard Archetypes for their tiral session.

Sounds like that girl soundn't come - at all. Nothing worse that being disturbed by the real world when playing PRG. My girlfriend would call me to ask when we were finished... and I would be nice and say "2 hours, I'll be home" .. after 2 hours still playing I would start getting uneasy and prematurely ending the game. Now I ask her NOT to call me when I'm playing... feels much better
You should tell your friend to step up and tell his girlfriend the she is too much distraction. I she still come.... start giving him nicknames... "henpecked"... "domisticated"..."bootlicking" (hmm... falling short of ideas not being native english speaker.. I'm sure people here would help with the namecalling).
If she hears him being called these names... she should realize that it time to give him some respect and independence.

Partners and PRG.. sometimes it mixes.. sometime it doesn't

This sort of situation can become very prickly very quickly so I would advise against picking on the player's character or the player himself. I would recommend privately laying out the problem for the player (not his apparently disinterested girlfriend) and asking him to either play or not play, but not do both at the same time.

Of course, I would recommend the utmost courtesy in the process.

Its cyanide that tastes like almonds.

Ideally, you should try to get her involved in the game. Give her a character to play, such as a fixer or something. Let her handle a few NPCs, then if she does well, suggest that she might like to play a real character.

If that doesn't work, I'd take pragma's advice. Lay it out cleanly and quietly.

I'd say take it to her.

I dunno who's read the ladder theory and its accompanying ideas (http://www.intellectualwhores.com/masterladder.html) but according to it, you're all the girlfriend's "Virtual friends" by way of her boyfriend.

So that in mind, feel free to approach her and say "Hey look, you're cool and all. I have nothing against you. We have this thing, though, and while I'm sure you wouldn't want your boyfriend to damage your relationship with your friends, we're concerned that you might be pushing some of his friends away by interrupting one of the few male bonding things we have..." Well you're not male, sooo.....But using the "Player X" idea always works.

Suggest that she give it a try. If she adamantly refuses, ask her why she attends. When she (most likely) replies with "to be with my boyfriend," tell her that her boyfriend is having friendship-time, and remind her that distance makes the heart grow fonder. Remind her that having different interests and partaking in them seperately and still coming back to one another is a sign of a happy relationship.

If this fails, talk to him about it. Don't be mean to the girlfriend, but explain that the guy is getting a little out of hand. (My best friend was pulling the "on the phone with the girlfriend while hanging out" bit. He isn't anymore.)

If THIS doesn't work, his character needs to suddenly start "losing track of time." Make a small note the first time he gets distracted. Feel free to have NPCs notice this (I.E. Guards see that one of the runners looks like he has something on his mind) and pop him first. That might make him mad, maybe make him quit, but if he's so absinent as not to realize that he's being uncouth and rude, especially after you explain that its rude....Tough noogies. It sucks, but you can be friends outside of the game and when its all over welcome him back.

With a freshly rolled up 0 Karma charrie.

I would ask her street why she is coming, assuming you happy to have her play tell her she is welcome to join the game but if she isn’t going to enjoy watching or playing it’s a wast of every bodies time for her to show up. Do this when the other player is also present.

If she wants to attend just to be with her boyfriend the question becomes, why share an activity with him that you do not enjoy

Lastly remember, not paying actinon to the game should loos you any chance of good RP karma

Edward

I'm sure namecalling would work ... at least in denmark. Not to make him feel bad.. but to make the girlfriend feel bad (as she brought it on him by not staying away when she was kindly asked to).

.. but be carefull when taking advice... even westeren cultures can be very different. In denmark irony and sarcasm runs high. The irony is delivered without a hint and the sarcasm with a smile. Works here... but might not elsewhere.

"pussywhiped"... thank you Nick.. I'll try to remember it and use it in my everyday speech.

Don't play passive aggressive games with them. I had this happen with groups I was in in college, and you handle it one way. Flat out tell the player that the girl friend is causing problems, and if she's not going to play, then she has no reason to be there. It's disrupting the game, and annoying the other players.

PS: I absolutely loathe the 'ladder theory.' It's one of those things that simply _must_ be killed with fire, and an acquaintance summed it up pretty much perfectly: it's total fucking bullshit premised on abject sexism.

In that situation, it'd propably be best to talk to the boyfriend first. If he insists on bringing annoying girl with him, talk to her, openly but not agressively, that she should either stop disturbing everything or either keep quiet or join in.

And in case that doesn't work, tell boyfriend he can decide between either leaving her out of the gaming group or spend some girlfriend time outside the gaming group during future sessions.

Well, on another board I go to, a psychologist espouses the ladder theory as fairly accurate. I could dig up the post in which he did, but it's on a thread w/ 150+ pages, so I can't be bothered.

Is this a new girlfriend, or someone who has been with your friend for a while?

Talk with the girlfriend and explain that you (you're the GM, right?) put a lot of time and effort into the game and part of that effort involves planning for what her boyfriends character can do for the group. She may get it, but if she's a codependant or control freak then she'll just get worse.

If she is as bad as you say, then your friend may see her for what she is and break it off eventually.

fistandantilus3.0,

Its not you Is it?

I would just get a little squirt bottle of water, and every time she tries to distract the player, squirt her with it and say "that's a bad kitty!"

I agree that the ladder theory has some sexist aspects to it. Never said it didn't.

However, having actually gotten out into the real world and seen how some (at least American) male and female interaction looks, the sexism is more in the actual distinction between two ladders rather than the "Just friends" and "more than friends" ladders. If I had a penny for every time a girl had said "I'm not interested in you that way" I would be richer than Lofwyr. Of course, guys pull that one too - Just not at all as often, and usually because the sexual interest isn't present. Its when the theory bases itself upon material possession and not physical/mental/sexual attractiveness (I find myself to be hideously ugly) that it becomes sexist, at least to someone with as many rejections in his book as me.

Also, even sexist, racist ideas can make a good point. Its rare, but when you look at the national leaders during World War Two and their private lives, Hitler looks the most rational (Churchill was how intoxicated, again?) - But appearances are decieving, so there can always be a glimpse of sanity in the neurotic and irrational. The "Virtual friends" notion is completely true, at least in my experience.

And yeah, I know Plan B is female. I did graduate elementry school I probably typed something silly due to being tired/distracted. It happens to us humans.

I like Funkenstien's idea.

Non gamer girlfriend? Well that is a bad prognosis. Early simptons include her being distruptive to the game, resentfull of the time he spends with friends instead of her. It progresses through several phases of increasing interference untill your friend becomes more and more unreliable, untill he stops showing up all together. You will only ever see him agian standing outside of the restrooms in the mall holding a purse.

Now it is possable for him to live with this afliction. With proper treatment he can lead a mostly normal (for a gamer) life.

Now if she seems to be good for your friend, and worth some effort, you may try to corrupt her into gaming. Shadowrun may be a bit too much for her to step into. What does she like? Did she love the Lord of the Rings movies? Maby you guys can try a D&D game some weekend for her? Does she like Buffy? There is a nice game on the market that is easy to learn and works quite well. With luck, she will come to understand and thus give him space, or she will move from 'friend's girlfriend' to 'friend'.

You simply have to assert your dominance. She is intruding on your territory under the guise of protecting her mate. Next time, attack her, wrestle her to the ground and put your jaws over her throat. That should be a sufficient show of dominance to keep her from wandering in your marked areas again uninvited.

Hmm... That reminds me of my last game before I was forced to start running games exclusively online.

Heh, oh I wonder why.

On a side note, you are all extremely lucky to be able to game in meatspace. If I ever even hinted at being interested in P&P RPGs it'd be the "interventions" all over again... sometimes I do so dislike how fake-Christian my family is.

This has been somewhat addressed already, but here's my two cents.
Calling the player henpecked in an attempt to shame his girlfriend into behaving won't work. More than likely you will just be giving her more ammunition to say what a crummy group of friends you are.
Go to him. It's his girlfriend, he should be the one who tells her. Otherwise, once again she can just say his friends are picking on her.
When you set the boundaries (Anyone who comes plays, etc), be ready to enforce them. It is very likely your friend will continue to bring his girlfriend until he is told at the session "look, either you both play, she leaves, or you both leave. Those are your options". A few times of this happening and the situation will be resolved, one way or the other.

On a side note, what is this ladder theory?

Thanks so much for all the help! Just to clarify for those who asked; the player is 25 and the girlfriend is 17 (yes, I know, I know.) Anyway, we've tried talking to him but so far, no good. Todays' another session so we'll see how it goes.

PS: Can someone explain the "Ladder Theory" please?

Ladder theory. Clickey!

The link was posted earlier, but not in tags, so I guess everyone missed it.

Isn't DMSO fairly toxic?

~J

And if that's blocked, you can go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladder_Theory

Thanks for the link, Hermit. Though I now feel dirty for even having read it.

Hermit: I'm referring to a comparison of private, not personal lives. I don't remember the exact lesson, but it goes something like...

"Who would you rather have lead your country? A: A failed politician who is a stubborn, vehement alcoholic; or B: A man with a cute dog, a love for children and joy at barbeques?"

American (and probably many other) culture would say B in a heartbeat. Too bad A is Churchill. That's where the case comes from, and sorry if I was unclear.

"What, therefore, may appear as a difficulty today is in reality the presmise for our victory. Precisely in the greatness and difficulties of our task lies the probability that only the best fighters will step forward to struggle for it. And in this selection lies the guarenty of success." You can picture FDR saying something like this duing the "Day of Infamy" speech. You can imagine Ike Esienhauer saying this before departing for Normandy. Its so crisis-inspiring that it could be something Churchill said, or it could be a quote from some "Earth is invaded" movie like Independence Day.

The quote is from Hitler's Mein Kampf. Madness, considering it comes after his biographical account of his realization that, to his deranged mind, "Jews are bad." We all know that's complete insanity, but he thought this way. Its a reminder that evil can sound sweet while good can sound incredibly ugly.

Plan B: The Ladder Theory is a sarcastic yet somewhat (in some ways) accurate portrayal of male and female relationships.

It has sexist elements as part of its (I would hope) satire, elements which essentally relegate women to hungry snakes looking to eat a man's wallet and relegates men to horny wolves looking to get laid at all costs.

Example degrading men: "IF A MAN FINDS YOU ATTRACTIVE YOU CANNOT BE FRIENDS" - And they list the three circumstances which would ever, ever permit this.

1. The guy is gay
2. The guy does not find you attractive.
3. The guy already has a woman much higher than you on the ladder

Oddly enough, I've found this to be true. When a woman gives me the "Just friends" thing, after telling her I've liked her, the friendship is 9/10 times doomed. ESPECIALLY if she (as oftentimes happens) decides I'm the friend with relationship wisdom thus the one to cry her heart out to over other guys. Sorry, I know how guys think - It was stated accurately that most of us (especially until the 30's) want sex.

Something degrading to women: " So the breakdown looks like:

Money and Power: 50%

Attraction: 40%

Things Women Say They Care About But Do Not: 10%
(this includes intelligence, sense of humor, honesty, sensitivity etc. )"

My experience has told me money and power have little to do with things when compared to attractiveness. The "Things women say they care about but do not" gets a higher importance as well, but above all else this is an attempt to do one thing.

To stereotype men and women to make the example work.

I've seen a -lot- of cases where the above situation works out. I know girls that date guys just for money: I don't know what happened afterwards because I broke off contact. I know girls that would rather date "hot" guys and get cheated on, then complain to me about the problem: I don't really know what happened, because I told them I am not their cuddle-bitch (also in the theory.) and that I will absolutely not hear them ask for advice and not take it.

But when this theory comes down to the actual ladder - That a disparity works in one's favor or not and thus leverage can be seen - Ask yourself these quick things.

1: Why does a married person put up with a cheating spouse?
2: Why do people put up with their "lover" (often males do this, not always...) beating them?
3: Why do men often buy things for women? (it can be the other way around, but in American stereotypic society...)
4: How IS it that people we consider pricks often wind up with the hottest girls, even though they are just cute/rich/popular/whatever? We have all had this case.

So yeah, the theory (summed up in my longwinded mindset) is a half-sarcastic, half-sensible attempt to explain male and female relations. In some cases, it works. In some cases, almost everything does. In others it doesn't - There are just some parts that make more sense than others.

Oddly, I can't find the "virtual friends" part of the site to quote it....But essentially that's friends who are your friend's girlfriend/boyfriend. Who usually disappear when the relationship ends. If that makes sense.

When an SO tags along to a game, they should either
1) Play and have a good time or 2)Amuse themselves somehow. I had a buddy with a girl that was always there why we played (she was his ride), but she read or played a video game in another room. If you respect yourself and your partner is healthy and you are both trusting, you should be able to spend a few hours a week apart.

If they play and suck at it, plainly not caring and doing it only to tag along, that sucks, and they should get a life. We had a female in a gurps group for a while, and her BF was afraid we were all going to nail her, so he'd come to every game and 'play' but he was just a problem. There was an incident.

If they sit there and sigh and roll their eyes and are a general PITA, or if they butt in talking about other things, they should get a life.

Also, the ladder theory is crap, and I counter with Nice Guy RantThe ladder theory shouldn't be taken as anything but funny, f'real.

There are a lot of people of both genders who are essentially inmature and not autonomous and don't realize that their SO wanting some time or a hobby to themselves isn't a threat. They honestly think they're doing the right thing by maintaining an un-needed closeness.

Sometimes the SO is also going out of their way to give the hobby a fair crack, as well, but I think it's better to introduce a non-gamer to the games through the pretty pictures and cool stories in sourcebooks, personally.

I took the first posted thing as a sample. This will be fun.
-----

10 Reasons Women (who aren't Heartless Bitches!) Date Jerks Instead of Nice Guys

1. It's more fun to complain about them to her friends. [Male friends? Essentially, this is BS as well. Already this is sad.]

2. Guys who actually like her just aren't challenging or exciting. [Last I looked, relationships aren't suppoed to be a challenge...]

3. When she does date nice guys, they turn into jerks anyway, so why not save time and go for the jerk in the first place? [Happens sometimes. Not always. If it does, the guy deserves heartbreak. If not, you aren't giving him a chance.]

4. She won't get as emotionally attached to a jerk, so she'll be more in control. [Okay, so relationships aren't about challenges now, they've become about control...?]

5. All the other women want them, so they must be worth having. [So if all people who feel this jumped off a bridge...]

6. Affection means more when it comes from a guy who doesn't normally give it. [Yeah, so do other things that come with prick guys? Getting cheated on, getting hit...?]

7. Guaranteed to cheat on her so someone else can endure his lack of lovemaking skills most of the time. [At least this one is kind of funny.]

8. No need to feel guilty for abusing or deceiving them. [That's like saying because one group killed a million people, that group is justified in killing a million in reprisal. Those people most likely had nothing to do with it - Just as "no need to feel guilty" when decieving a new beau is equal BS.]

9. Jerks will actually tell her when they don't like what she's doing instead of getting mad about it six months later. [Maybe true. Maybe not. I usually tell women what I don't like about them if I can't deal with it. Everyone has quirks.]

10. She was looking for someone she can't trust, and won't care about too much, who will abuse her mentally and financially, but she didn't know any lawyers. [Okay, if she was LOOKING to get abused, good for her. I think that's insanity.]

---------

Now, just to draw from "Why Amy doesn't date 'nice guys,'" "It's because I'm really not a "nice girl"" - Good, then you have no problem when another theory applies a stereotypical standard to you when you declare you are the very same.

The point of fact is this - Relationships are EMOTIONAL bonds as well as physical. Similarly, abusing someone's emotions can be just as, if not moreso damaging then their body. Both forms of abuse heal, right? Emotional abuse, however, is more likely to lead to physical abuse of a more severe nature. Then again, you can argue the same thing about physical.

But as personal preference, I'd rather a girl punch me in the stomach repeatedly then cheat on me and throw it in my face. I'd rather get my nose broken then have a girl use emotional heartstrings against me. Physical abuse is pain, but its escapable. If a mugger in the streets hits you, you can fight back or run. If an SO cheats on you, well...Sometimes guys forget that hitting women is a bad idea. After all, insanity can be caused through emotional pain and physical suffering both.

Insanity, aside from the definition of doing the same thing over and over again without any changes and expecting a different result, is to me the idea of hurting another person or yourself. People who are cheated on sometimes attempt suicide, other times become drug addicts, and still others retaliate the only way they can - Physically. After all, with a SO throwing emotional spears at you, its fairly clear they do not fear the same response.

Now, this isn't justifying guys who hit or kill their wives or themselves. Don't think I am, because I think violence of any sort is a mistake - But I also believe you don't kick a dog because you A: Don't want to be kicked and B: Have the brains to know that dogs can bite back. When people disregard personal safety and engage in "insane" behavior such as hurting another through any means, be they physical or emotional, they sacrifice at least some of their protection from retaliation of any means.

Want an example? Walk up to the nicest 6'8'' bodybuilder you know. Punch him square in the face. Chances are you will not walk away. You might not even live. Who's fault is that? BOTH of yours - You for hitting him, him for hitting back.

Anyway, I've probably said enough things in a poor manner to incriminate myself from here to eternity. I'll clarify when necessary.

[Edit as a P.S. to Hermit] - I completely agree, but that's why I don't judge a book by its cover. But the point is that even in rambling manuscripts (such as my above complete topic digression) you can find things which sound good.

personally i think we should just hire a hitman to take her out.

I find emotional harder to bear as well. I like that you picked up on the BDSM thing, I almost mentioned it but didn't want to enter that territory.

I'm a submissive sooooo.....Maybe that's why I don't mind a lil' physical abuse?

But as you mentioned, physical abuse is a partner to emotional. Few people (aside from me and, apparently, Hermit's friend) enjoy being abused in any regard. Even fewer take thorough trashings without emotional scarring.

And Scorched, perhaps the next Run this group does should be a team hired to kill a guy's girlfriend because the girlfriend is disrupting a project? Maybe that'll get the message across?

I've got some characters to make over the weekend, and some more writing to get done—I've been slower than I want in updating the fiction thread, but after that I'm available. Where is this?

~J

talk to the player first with the girlfriend not around.

and every once in a while have an elemental pop up and whip him for deadly stun, then disappear