hobgoblin
Aug 19 2005, 08:02 PM
QUOTE (Sabosect) |
Max skills or attributes: Haven't done the math yet. However, considering that near half only gives you solid 3s, I would say more expensive. |
and given the increased influence the attributes have on skills and tests i say its justified
hobgoblin
Aug 19 2005, 08:03 PM
hmm, can one play a magical adept directly out of the BBB?
blakkie
Aug 19 2005, 08:05 PM
QUOTE (Sabosect @ Aug 19 2005, 01:57 PM) |
This system:
Max skills or attributes: Haven't done the math yet. However, considering that near half only gives you solid 3s, I would say more expensive. |
Your max starting attributes are 1/2 your BP, unless you start with higher than 690 BP.
4*8*10=320BP + 25BP (for a single 6) = 345BP * 2 = 690BP
mmu1
Aug 19 2005, 08:06 PM
Mhmm... Thanks for the info.
I have to say, one thing I dislike the most about SR3 is the way it encourages certain things in character generation to the point of them almost feeling mandatory (unless you're willing to take one for the sake roleplay and handicap yourself), thus making for a certain homogeneity of characters... (or at least of stats and skills) But so far, it seems like SR4 is not really an improvement in that department - if anything, there seems to be a lot less freedom, a lot less that you can do with your character.
Not terribly excited about technomancers, either... Sounds like just another type of magic, and that's blurring a line I'd have liked to have been left alone. So much for people who were convinced they'd still need hardware to interface with the Matrix, I guess...
Though somehow, that fails to make me feel better. Well, maybe just a little.
tisoz
Aug 19 2005, 08:17 PM
QUOTE (Nikoli) |
Okay, next question. What is the general guideline for Karma awards at the end of the run? |
They looked the same as third edition.
QUOTE (blakkie) |
You still get effectively an attribute increase plus the metamagic? |
No, you get to add grade to magic attribute, not that plus +1 to magic attribute.
QUOTE (hobgoblin) |
can one play a magical adept directly out of the BBB? |
Yes, they have a list of powers, including some from SotA64.
QUOTE (blakkie) |
Your max starting attributes are 1/2 your BP, unless you start with higher than 690 BP.
4*8*10=320BP + 25BP (for a single 6) = 345BP * 2 = 690BP |
Think you transposed skill caps. I think the only attribute cap I saw was 1/2 total BP.
Nikoli
Aug 19 2005, 08:22 PM
then it sounds like chracters may start low, but will progress very quickly. SR had guidelines in the 10+ range in many circumstances. Spells are cheaper to learn, skills are rather flat to improve, etc.
mintcar
Aug 19 2005, 08:24 PM
mmu1: We don´t have confirmation on that technomancers can access the matrix without hardware, all we got is a quote that sais they can manipulate it out of their free will. tisoz, can we get a more reliable confirmation on this?
Sabosect
Aug 19 2005, 08:24 PM
Is there anything in there about skill caps over rank 6? Or a max you can raise attributes to?
hobgoblin
Aug 19 2005, 08:28 PM
QUOTE (mmu1) |
I have to say, one thing I dislike the most about SR3 is the way it encourages certain things in character generation to the point of them almost feeling mandatory (unless you're willing to take one for the sake roleplay and handicap yourself), thus making for a certain homogeneity of characters... (or at least of stats and skills) But so far, it seems like SR4 is not really an improvement in that department - if anything, there seems to be a lot less freedom, a lot less that you can do with your character. |
well, any game that dont use classes to force you into a set role ends up having stuff thats allmost mandatory. atleast in games thats combat/conflict oriented. ie, you will want a high body to survive a beating and so on.
hell, even classes dont fully help. but they atleast makes it easyer to justify putting a lower stat on the one dealing with base survival
tisoz
Aug 19 2005, 08:32 PM
QUOTE (mintcar @ Aug 19 2005, 02:24 PM) |
mmu1: We don´t have confirmation on that technomancers can access the matrix without hardware, all we got is a quote that sais they can manipulate it out of their free will. tisoz, can we get a more reliable confirmation on this? |
I checked the index and skimmed the matrix section without seeing anything more helpful. or definite.
Improving an attribute is done one point at a time at a cost of 3*new rating.
Improving skill group is 5*new rating.
Improving an active skill is 2* new rating.
New active skill is 4 karma.
New active group is 10 karma.
New Quality is 2*BP.
[edit] Not to cause dissent, but It did not mention altering damage tracks when their attribute got raised. Is it possible or did I not notice where it stated to do so?
Also, starting cash was based off of starting lifestyle.[/edit]
QUOTE (Sabosect) |
Is there anything in there about skill caps over rank 6? Or a max you can raise attributes to? |
Skills are capped at 6 unless it is exceptional. Ditto Attributes unless racial modifiers apply.
Samoth
Aug 19 2005, 08:37 PM
what are the new changes with cyberware? i know you said cyberlimbs are still 1 essence each, but what else is new? are there still datajacks?
Kagetenshi
Aug 19 2005, 08:38 PM
Are there any Skill Groups that have more than three skills in them?
~J
blakkie
Aug 19 2005, 08:43 PM
QUOTE (tisoz @ Aug 19 2005, 02:17 PM) |
QUOTE (blakkie) | You still get effectively an attribute increase plus the metamagic? |
No, you get to add grade to magic attribute, not that plus +1 to magic attribute.
|
That's what i meant by 'effectively'. The attribute doesn't increase, but you do get the increase in most used of the attribute? Which uses i guess is the real question.
QUOTE |
QUOTE (blakkie) | Your max starting attributes are 1/2 your BP, unless you start with higher than 690 BP.
4*8*10=320BP + 25BP (for a single 6) = 345BP * 2 = 690BP |
Think you transposed skill caps. I think the only attribute cap I saw was 1/2 total BP.
|
Oops. Ok, so the max is always 1/2BP up until something absurd BP number for PC creation that allows you across the boad 6's.
5*10BP + 25BP = 75BP * 8 = 600BP * 2 = 1200BP
Sabosect
Aug 19 2005, 08:48 PM
Holy hell.
blakkie
Aug 19 2005, 08:48 PM
QUOTE (tisoz) |
New active skill is 4 karma.
New active group is 10 karma. |
Interesting. That would seem to actually provide a bit of incentive to take a 1 skill at creation in any skill you expect to be increasing shortly after creation.
tisoz
Aug 19 2005, 08:52 PM
QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
Are there any Skill Groups that have more than three skills in them?
~J |
Yes.
Swordfish Mustardball.
Sabosect
Aug 19 2005, 08:53 PM
I swear, I'm making a character with that skill just to mess with people.
Samoth
Aug 19 2005, 09:03 PM
what are the new changes with cyberware? i know you said cyberlimbs are still 1 essence each, but what else is new? are there still datajacks?
tisoz
Aug 19 2005, 09:15 PM
QUOTE (Samoth) |
what are the new changes with cyberware? i know you said cyberlimbs are still 1 essence each, but what else is new? are there still datajacks? |
Cybereyes can be purchased with variable capacities, 4-16, .2-.5 essence. Ears follow suit.
Yes, there are still datajacks, as well as much of the cyberware.
Bonelacing essence is .5, 1, 1.5 for original 3 types. Increases power still. Adds to B and armor like it did.
Availability ratings have changed and max at chargen is now 12. So cyberarm gyromounts are available at chargen. Cyber skulls are not.
Cyberlimbs now have Body rating too. Body, Strength and Agility come with rating 3, need torso too raise above 3. Do not see the old essence cost to increase them and the most expensive looks to be 250 nuyen per rating point. Probably limited by ECU (besides cap of 7).
Enhanced Articulation is .3 ess. and +1 die for any task with a linked physical attribute.
Bone Density acts like bone lacing, only less essence.
Mnemonic enhancer gives no karma reduction.
Pain Editor avail 18, no trauma damper listed.
Reflex recorders for skill groups. Athletics group has 4 skills, Biotech - 3, Close Combat - 3, Conjuring - 3, Cracking - 3, Electronics - 4, Firearms - 3, Influence - 4, Mechanic - 4, Outdoors - 3, Sorcery - 3, Stealth - 4, Tasking -3. If you raise a skill within a group seperately, you can no longer raise the group.
Zen Shooter01
Aug 19 2005, 09:17 PM
What's a Skill Group? I see them listed on the sample archetypes at srrpg.com.
tisoz
Aug 19 2005, 09:17 PM
QUOTE (blakkie) |
QUOTE (tisoz @ Aug 19 2005, 02:32 PM) | New active skill is 4 karma.
New active group is 10 karma. |
Interesting. That would seem to actually provide a bit of incentive to take a 1 skill at creation in any skill you expect to be increasing shortly after creation.
|
Same karma cost as BP cost.
tisoz
Aug 19 2005, 09:20 PM
QUOTE (Zen Shooter01) |
What's a Skill Group? I see them listed on the sample archetypes at srrpg.com. |
Example:
Sorcery consists of Counterspelling, Ritual Spellcasting and Spellcasting.
Firearms is Automatics, Longarms, Pistols.
blakkie
Aug 19 2005, 09:30 PM
QUOTE (tisoz) |
QUOTE (blakkie @ Aug 19 2005, 02:48 PM) | QUOTE (tisoz @ Aug 19 2005, 02:32 PM) | New active skill is 4 karma.
New active group is 10 karma. |
Interesting. That would seem to actually provide a bit of incentive to take a 1 skill at creation in any skill you expect to be increasing shortly after creation.
|
Same karma cost as BP cost.
|
What i mean is that when faced with the choice of taking one skill at 2, and starting a new skill post-creation, or taking two skills at 1 and raising one of them post-creation, it is even in karma cost.
I guess not so much an incentive as the removal of a penalty.
Nomad
Aug 19 2005, 09:32 PM
Two questions:
What changes have been made regarding aspected magicians?
What are the general mechanics for skillwires? (I'm hoping they are still in)
chevalier_neon
Aug 19 2005, 09:34 PM
My understanding is that there will be no more aspect magician...
There will be magician that will spend a lot of BP in magical skills etc.
And some that will just specialise in one area of practice....
mintcar
Aug 19 2005, 09:38 PM
as it should be if you ask me
blakkie
Aug 19 2005, 09:39 PM
Tisoz, it would be cool if you flip to page 67 and maybe page 56 to enlighten us mushroom masses on what ended up happening for the final rules with Edge and Rule of Six?
JongWK
Aug 19 2005, 09:55 PM
Aspected magicians are still there, IIRC. You take a negative Quality to become one (in addition to taking the Magician positive Quality).
tisoz
Aug 19 2005, 10:18 PM
QUOTE (blakkie) |
Tisoz, it would be cool if you flip to page 67 and maybe page 56 to enlighten us mushroom masses on what ended up happening for the final rules with Edge and Rule of Six? |
Edge dice used for longshot tests do not explode (follow rule of 6). Otherwise rule of 6 only applies to Edge dice.
hobgoblin
Aug 19 2005, 10:22 PM
so basicly when everything is against you then you may go for a hand of god kinda thing. just hope that the gm isnt a

and put a high treshold on top of the crasy pool mods he deployed...
blakkie
Aug 19 2005, 10:26 PM
QUOTE (tisoz) |
QUOTE (blakkie @ Aug 19 2005, 03:39 PM) | Tisoz, it would be cool if you flip to page 67 and maybe page 56 to enlighten us mushroom masses on what ended up happening for the final rules with Edge and Rule of Six? |
Edge dice used for longshot tests do not explode (follow rule of 6). Otherwise rule of 6 only applies to Edge dice.
|
Sorry, that confuses me. What is a "longshot" test? Is that when the dice pool drops to zero or lower?
hobgoblin
Aug 19 2005, 10:27 PM
bingo...
and tisoz comment may make it sound like only edge dice have the ability to explode. not 100% correct. by adding 1 or more edge to the pool before the test, while there is still some other dice left, they all explode
Rotbart van Dainig
Aug 19 2005, 10:32 PM
@tisoz: Do the modificators for bad vision still differ for natural, cybernetic or external vision enhancers?
Toa
Aug 19 2005, 10:40 PM
Any change within the Big Ten? Is there a new megacorporation, or is it just old faces?
mfb
Aug 19 2005, 10:44 PM
is there a cap on cyberlimb attributes at chargen? or something similar to keep you from giving 1s to all your physical attributes, and then going full-conversion borg with +6 on all physical stats?
tisoz
Aug 19 2005, 11:18 PM
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Aug 19 2005, 04:32 PM) |
@tisoz: Do the modificators for bad vision still differ for natural, cybernetic or external vision enhancers? |
Yes. No, modifiers apply equally. (I was thinking between different types of vision.)
QUOTE (blakkie) |
What is a "longshot" test? Is that when the dice pool drops to zero or lower? |
Yes.
QUOTE (hobgoblin) |
and tisoz comment may make it sound like only edge dice have the ability to explode. not 100% correct. by adding 1 or more edge to the pool before the test, while there is still some other dice left, they all explode |
Right, I probably was not clear on that.
QUOTE (Toa) |
Any change within the Big Ten? Is there a new megacorporation, or is it just old faces? |
Novatech's IPO contributed to the crash. Evo Corporation (formerly Yamatetsu), Horizon, NeoNet (evolved from Novatech), Wuxing are the big ten with some of the old faces.
QUOTE (mfb) |
is there a cap on cyberlimb attributes at chargen? or something similar to keep you from giving 1s to all your physical attributes, and then going full-conversion borg with +6 on all physical stats? |
May be but I did not see it in skimming.
JongWK
Aug 19 2005, 11:19 PM
EDIT: Nevermind
Serbitar
Aug 19 2005, 11:26 PM
We need a Teamspeak server with somebodyon who has the book !
blakkie
Aug 19 2005, 11:29 PM
QUOTE (Serbitar) |
We need a Teamspeak server with somebodyon who has the book ! |

I don't think it is humanly possible to comprehend the madness that would cause.
No, what we need is that damn PDF up for sale online.
Serbitar
Aug 19 2005, 11:31 PM
you can mute the whole channel and ask questions only by inbuilt textchat. Voice only to the BBB4 owners.
Have to analyze ! Need INPUT ! FAST !
Bandwidthoracle
Aug 19 2005, 11:38 PM
QUOTE (blakkie) |
QUOTE (Serbitar @ Aug 19 2005, 05:26 PM) | We need a Teamspeak server with somebodyon who has the book ! |
 I don't think it is humanly possible to comprehend the madness that would cause. No, what we need is that damn PDF up for sale online. |
I take it the AI sponsored runner teams were not succeseful in their strike to get it from Adam?
Does this mean that Adam is a GD or an IE?
chevalier_neon
Aug 19 2005, 11:39 PM
Damn... I knew it !
blakkie
Aug 19 2005, 11:47 PM
Immortal Dwarf, living in a mushroom.
Bandwidthoracle
Aug 19 2005, 11:55 PM
QUOTE (blakkie) |
Immortal Dwarf, living in a mushroom. |
All six of your teams failed? Lets hope they are in some sort of simsense feedback punishment right now?
chevalier_neon
Aug 19 2005, 11:58 PM
Actually, all the teams had to use the conversion table from SR3 to 4 as they arrived before the stand at GenCon, and they were too weak to even try to oppose the bouncers
Sabosect
Aug 20 2005, 02:15 AM
Sadly, true. He cheated and built the bouncers with 2400 BP. And my real snatch-and-grab group were foiled by detection spells.
Kesh
Aug 21 2005, 06:55 PM
Okay, since no one else asked...
1) What are the BP costs for an Adept, Technomancer, or other magical build options?
2) Do the wireless connection devices (what are they termed?) have to be plugged into a datajack or using 'trodes?
3) What kinds of actions can a hacker use? Do they automatically detect access points, or have to search/run a program to find them?
4) Any Qualities that stand out as interesting and/or useful?
5) So, what's up with the Sex section?
apple
Aug 21 2005, 07:23 PM
QUOTE (Kesh) |
2) Do the wireless connection devices (what are they termed?) have to be plugged into a datajack or using 'trodes? |
Commlinks ... and if you want to control them with your thoughts, your brain needs access to them => DNI or cybernetic version (0,2 essence).
SYL
Kesh
Aug 21 2005, 07:36 PM
Thanks, apple. And I now see there are other threads devoted to questions, so off I go!
Gomez
Aug 21 2005, 09:19 PM
Well no joy from Gencon.
I had a friend who was to buy me a copy of SR 4 at Gencon but it seemed that Fanpro sold out of there copies in 3 minutes on Friday and 7 minutes on Saturday. You would think that they could have brought enough copies of the game.
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