Full Version: Katrina
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| Hurricanes: good or bad times to stage a shadowrun? Does Seattle ever get some hurricane lovin'? ~J |
good question. I think extreme weather is an excellent background for a run. It makes me think of that episode of Pretender where Jarod is stuck in FL during a hurricane. He tied up that parks department guy in the swamp.
| QUOTE (durthang @ Sep 2 2005, 12:42 PM) |
| Murdering assholes or not, does it worry anyone that America is turning her troops against American citizens? |
As an American citizen, it doesn't bother me one bit. Particularly in the sense that American troops are defending American citizens. Unfortunately it happens to be defending against other citizens, but as others have said, aggressors deserve what they get.
What amazes me is the amount of support the world is offering here. And the lack of support that Bush is accepting.
Hell, even the dirt-poor countries that got hammered by the tsunami are offering whatever they can spare, and Britain has put out an open ended "Just give the word and it'll be across the ocean tomorrow" offer of help.
Hell, even Fidel offered to send 1,100 trained physicians and 26 tons of medicine.
Hell, even the dirt-poor countries that got hammered by the tsunami are offering whatever they can spare, and Britain has put out an open ended "Just give the word and it'll be across the ocean tomorrow" offer of help.
Hell, even Fidel offered to send 1,100 trained physicians and 26 tons of medicine.
Fidel did it to spit in our face, but I think we need the goddamn help more than we need our dignity.
Agreed.
But more, Fidel looks like the world's biggest ass if we actually say yes, and he fails to deliver.
So, it's a win/win situation. 1,100 trained physicians and 26 tons of medicine would be a big help in Louisiana.
And if he fails to follow through, he'll lose a metric shitload of face in the eyes of the rest of the world.
But more, Fidel looks like the world's biggest ass if we actually say yes, and he fails to deliver.
So, it's a win/win situation. 1,100 trained physicians and 26 tons of medicine would be a big help in Louisiana.
And if he fails to follow through, he'll lose a metric shitload of face in the eyes of the rest of the world.
Here's the full list, from CNN, in case they take it down:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/03/katrina.w....aid/index.html
-- Sri Lanka has offered what it called a "token contribution" of $25,000 through the American Red Cross.
-- Mexico has offered $1 million and is sending 15 truckloads of water, food and medical supplies via Texas. The Mexican navy has offered to send two ships, two helicopters and 15 amphibious vehicles.
-- Australia is giving A$10 million ($7.6 million), most of it to the American Red Cross.
-- China has offered $5 million.
-- India is making a $5 million donation to the American Red Cross, Ambassador Ronen Sen said Saturday. In addition, Sen said India was willing to donate essential medicines to the relief effort, noting that India has the largest number of Food and Drug Administration-recognized pharmaceutical companies outside the United States.
-- -- Germany has offered a wide range of assistance including evacuation by air, medical services, transportation services, water treatment capabilities, assistance in searching for victims, vaccination teams and supplies, and emergency shelter. Germany has also said it is ready and willing to "dip into its own emergency oil reserves" to release some 2 million barrels a day for 30 days.
-- France has offered mobile help from the French Antilles, which is relatively close to the affected regions, including a civil defense detachment of 35 people, tents, camp beds, generators, motor pumps, water treatment units and emergency kits, two CASA cargo aircraft, a ship (Batral Francis Garnier) and the frigate Ventose with its Panther helicopter, and a hurricane disaster unit (20 soldiers and 900 kg of specialized supplies and medical support).
-- France has also offered assistance from the French mainland including: one or two C-135 planes, one A-310 aircraft , and four C-160 Transalls, an airborne emergency unit. In addition, the NGO Telecoms Sans Frontieres, which specializes in restoring phone lines and Internet service in disasters, is ready to send a team of experts and equipment. Veolia Environment, which has facilities in Louisiana, has offered to make its local water management resources available to the American authorities or the Red Cross. It can also quickly send in a team of hydraulic experts.
-- Japan has offered to provide $200,000 to the American Red Cross. The government of Japan will identify needs in the affected regions through the U.S. government and, upon request, is ready to provide necessary and available emergency assistance supply amounting to up to $300,000 worth of items such as tents, blankets, power generators, portable water tanks and more from a supply depot maintained by the Japanese government in Florida.
-- Cuba's President Fidel Castro said on Friday his nation was ready to send 1,100 doctors and 26 tons of medicine and equipment.
Then they started catagorizing it into geographic regions:
ASIA:
AUSTRALIA: "We're going to provide A$10 million ($7.6 million) and the bulk of that money, if not all of it, will go to the American Red Cross," said Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer. The Australian government said there may be up to 24 Australians trapped in Louisiana in the aftermath of Katrina.
CHINA: China offered $5 million in aid for victims of Hurricane Katrina which devastated the Gulf Coast ahead of President Hu Jintao's U.S. visit. If needed, the Chinese government is also prepared to send rescue workers, including medical experts, officials said.
JAPAN: Will provide $200,000 to the American Red Cross to assist victims of Hurricane Katrina, the Japanese Foreign Ministry said on Friday. Japan will also identify needs in affected regions via the U.S. government and will provide up to $300,000 in emergency supplies such as tents, blankets and power generators if it receives requests for such assistance, the ministry said.
SINGAPORE: The Singapore Armed Forces, responding to requests by the United States Texas Army National Guard, has sent three Chinook helicopters to Fort Polk, Louisiana, to help in relief efforts. The government said the Chinooks will help to ferry supplies and undertake airlift missions.
SOUTH KOREA: Has pledged aid and is waiting for a U.S. response, a government official said. "We have sent our intention to offer recovery aid," a Foreign Ministry official said on Friday.
SRI LANKA: Will donate $25,000 to the American Red Cross.
TAIWAN: Has pledged more than $3 million to the relief effort.
Americas
CANADA: Offered to help in any way it can and the navy is preparing a ship full of emergency disaster relief supplies to be sent when a request comes.
CUBA: Cuban President Fidel Castro offered to fly 1,100 doctors to Houston with 26 tonnes of medicine to treat disaster victims.
MEXICO: The country is sending 15 truckloads of water, food and medical supplies via Texas and the Mexican navy has offered to send two ships, two helicopters and 15 amphibious vehicles.
VENEZUELA: President Hugo Chavez, a vocal critic of the United States, offered to send cheap fuel, humanitarian aid and relief workers to the disaster area.
Europe
EUROPEAN UNION: EU countries are ready to give the United States oil if it requests help, EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana said on Friday. But British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said this was not what the EU had in mind when it discussed how to help.
FRANCE: Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin said France was ready to offer support, telling TF1 television: "We have rescue teams based in the Caribbean and we are naturally ready to provide aid to the Americans, and that is what we have told them."
GERMANY: Has offered mobile units to provide clean water, military hospital facilities and medical aid.
ITALY: Has offered to "immediately" send aid and evacuation specialists, Italy's civil protection unit said. Authorities have prepared two military transport planes to fly amphibious vessels, pumps, generators, tents and personnel to New Orleans and other areas. They were awaiting word from U.S. officials, the unit said.
NETHERLANDS: Will provide teams for inspecting dykes and for identifying victims if there is a formal request from the United States. It will also send a frigate from Curacao to New Orleans shortly to provide emergency assistance, the government said.
RUSSIA: Has offered to help with rescue efforts, but is still awaiting a reply from Washington. "Above all with heavy transport planes, which can be loaded with helicopters and generators -- as there is no electricity in the area of the catastrophe," Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov said.
SPAIN: Expects to receive a formal request to release gasoline stocks to the United States and is prepared to grant it, an Industry Ministry spokesman said.
SWEDEN: The Rescue Authority said it was on stand-by to supply water purifying equipment, healthcare supplies and emergency shelters if needed.
UNITED KINGDOM: British Prime Minister Tony Blair has said Britain stands ready to help the United States in whatever way it can.
Middle East
SAUDI ARABIA - Saudi Refining, a Houston-based subsidiary of state oil firm Saudi Aramco, will donate $5 million to the American Red Cross to support relief efforts for victims of Hurricane Katrina.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/03/katrina.w....aid/index.html
-- Sri Lanka has offered what it called a "token contribution" of $25,000 through the American Red Cross.
-- Mexico has offered $1 million and is sending 15 truckloads of water, food and medical supplies via Texas. The Mexican navy has offered to send two ships, two helicopters and 15 amphibious vehicles.
-- Australia is giving A$10 million ($7.6 million), most of it to the American Red Cross.
-- China has offered $5 million.
-- India is making a $5 million donation to the American Red Cross, Ambassador Ronen Sen said Saturday. In addition, Sen said India was willing to donate essential medicines to the relief effort, noting that India has the largest number of Food and Drug Administration-recognized pharmaceutical companies outside the United States.
-- -- Germany has offered a wide range of assistance including evacuation by air, medical services, transportation services, water treatment capabilities, assistance in searching for victims, vaccination teams and supplies, and emergency shelter. Germany has also said it is ready and willing to "dip into its own emergency oil reserves" to release some 2 million barrels a day for 30 days.
-- France has offered mobile help from the French Antilles, which is relatively close to the affected regions, including a civil defense detachment of 35 people, tents, camp beds, generators, motor pumps, water treatment units and emergency kits, two CASA cargo aircraft, a ship (Batral Francis Garnier) and the frigate Ventose with its Panther helicopter, and a hurricane disaster unit (20 soldiers and 900 kg of specialized supplies and medical support).
-- France has also offered assistance from the French mainland including: one or two C-135 planes, one A-310 aircraft , and four C-160 Transalls, an airborne emergency unit. In addition, the NGO Telecoms Sans Frontieres, which specializes in restoring phone lines and Internet service in disasters, is ready to send a team of experts and equipment. Veolia Environment, which has facilities in Louisiana, has offered to make its local water management resources available to the American authorities or the Red Cross. It can also quickly send in a team of hydraulic experts.
-- Japan has offered to provide $200,000 to the American Red Cross. The government of Japan will identify needs in the affected regions through the U.S. government and, upon request, is ready to provide necessary and available emergency assistance supply amounting to up to $300,000 worth of items such as tents, blankets, power generators, portable water tanks and more from a supply depot maintained by the Japanese government in Florida.
-- Cuba's President Fidel Castro said on Friday his nation was ready to send 1,100 doctors and 26 tons of medicine and equipment.
Then they started catagorizing it into geographic regions:
ASIA:
AUSTRALIA: "We're going to provide A$10 million ($7.6 million) and the bulk of that money, if not all of it, will go to the American Red Cross," said Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer. The Australian government said there may be up to 24 Australians trapped in Louisiana in the aftermath of Katrina.
CHINA: China offered $5 million in aid for victims of Hurricane Katrina which devastated the Gulf Coast ahead of President Hu Jintao's U.S. visit. If needed, the Chinese government is also prepared to send rescue workers, including medical experts, officials said.
JAPAN: Will provide $200,000 to the American Red Cross to assist victims of Hurricane Katrina, the Japanese Foreign Ministry said on Friday. Japan will also identify needs in affected regions via the U.S. government and will provide up to $300,000 in emergency supplies such as tents, blankets and power generators if it receives requests for such assistance, the ministry said.
SINGAPORE: The Singapore Armed Forces, responding to requests by the United States Texas Army National Guard, has sent three Chinook helicopters to Fort Polk, Louisiana, to help in relief efforts. The government said the Chinooks will help to ferry supplies and undertake airlift missions.
SOUTH KOREA: Has pledged aid and is waiting for a U.S. response, a government official said. "We have sent our intention to offer recovery aid," a Foreign Ministry official said on Friday.
SRI LANKA: Will donate $25,000 to the American Red Cross.
TAIWAN: Has pledged more than $3 million to the relief effort.
Americas
CANADA: Offered to help in any way it can and the navy is preparing a ship full of emergency disaster relief supplies to be sent when a request comes.
CUBA: Cuban President Fidel Castro offered to fly 1,100 doctors to Houston with 26 tonnes of medicine to treat disaster victims.
MEXICO: The country is sending 15 truckloads of water, food and medical supplies via Texas and the Mexican navy has offered to send two ships, two helicopters and 15 amphibious vehicles.
VENEZUELA: President Hugo Chavez, a vocal critic of the United States, offered to send cheap fuel, humanitarian aid and relief workers to the disaster area.
Europe
EUROPEAN UNION: EU countries are ready to give the United States oil if it requests help, EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana said on Friday. But British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said this was not what the EU had in mind when it discussed how to help.
FRANCE: Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin said France was ready to offer support, telling TF1 television: "We have rescue teams based in the Caribbean and we are naturally ready to provide aid to the Americans, and that is what we have told them."
GERMANY: Has offered mobile units to provide clean water, military hospital facilities and medical aid.
ITALY: Has offered to "immediately" send aid and evacuation specialists, Italy's civil protection unit said. Authorities have prepared two military transport planes to fly amphibious vessels, pumps, generators, tents and personnel to New Orleans and other areas. They were awaiting word from U.S. officials, the unit said.
NETHERLANDS: Will provide teams for inspecting dykes and for identifying victims if there is a formal request from the United States. It will also send a frigate from Curacao to New Orleans shortly to provide emergency assistance, the government said.
RUSSIA: Has offered to help with rescue efforts, but is still awaiting a reply from Washington. "Above all with heavy transport planes, which can be loaded with helicopters and generators -- as there is no electricity in the area of the catastrophe," Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov said.
SPAIN: Expects to receive a formal request to release gasoline stocks to the United States and is prepared to grant it, an Industry Ministry spokesman said.
SWEDEN: The Rescue Authority said it was on stand-by to supply water purifying equipment, healthcare supplies and emergency shelters if needed.
UNITED KINGDOM: British Prime Minister Tony Blair has said Britain stands ready to help the United States in whatever way it can.
Middle East
SAUDI ARABIA - Saudi Refining, a Houston-based subsidiary of state oil firm Saudi Aramco, will donate $5 million to the American Red Cross to support relief efforts for victims of Hurricane Katrina.
If only arrogance would step aside.
Agreed. Let me crunch the numbers there...
I count out USD$25,825,000 in clear cash to the American Red Cross and to the federal government in general.
But more than that, what I'm saying we need is all the doctors, engineers, and other disaster personell everyone can send.
What's got me salivating, though, is the Russian heavy-lift capability aircraft. Those old Soviet birds are pure monsters. They can land on shitty runways, with cargo loads that make our C-5 galaxies look like girly-planes. Think about that. Run those things from Russia to Louisana with all the supplies they have, then start running those birds around the country, collecting everything we have but can't GET to the disaster zone, and fly it straight in. No "fly to a good runway, then truck it in through horrible roads for two and half days." Just bulldoze a three-mile section of any good hard ground, and those monsters can land on it.
I count out USD$25,825,000 in clear cash to the American Red Cross and to the federal government in general.
But more than that, what I'm saying we need is all the doctors, engineers, and other disaster personell everyone can send.
What's got me salivating, though, is the Russian heavy-lift capability aircraft. Those old Soviet birds are pure monsters. They can land on shitty runways, with cargo loads that make our C-5 galaxies look like girly-planes. Think about that. Run those things from Russia to Louisana with all the supplies they have, then start running those birds around the country, collecting everything we have but can't GET to the disaster zone, and fly it straight in. No "fly to a good runway, then truck it in through horrible roads for two and half days." Just bulldoze a three-mile section of any good hard ground, and those monsters can land on it.
| QUOTE (Supercilious) |
| If only arrogance would step aside. |
Not arrogance so much as fear. Too many people would see accepting help as a sign of weakness.
Oh really?
The only people who would see it as a sign of weakness are the ones we're already busy stomping into the sand of the sandbox.
I think it would be a good sign of humility. "No, we're not too good to accept help from everyone else. No, we're not 'above' the rest. Yes, we do need your help."
The only people who would see it as a sign of weakness are the ones we're already busy stomping into the sand of the sandbox.
I think it would be a good sign of humility. "No, we're not too good to accept help from everyone else. No, we're not 'above' the rest. Yes, we do need your help."
I really don't think Fidel cares about spitting in our face. If he did, we wouldn't have our very own extraterritorial prision facility in Cuba.
No, Fidel very much wants to resume econmoic relations with the US. The tourist industry is the biggest money maker in Cuba. American tourists can get to Cuba indirectly by going through the Bahamas, but more Americans would vacation there if they could fly directly and didn't risk imprisionment for doing so.
No, Fidel very much wants to resume econmoic relations with the US. The tourist industry is the biggest money maker in Cuba. American tourists can get to Cuba indirectly by going through the Bahamas, but more Americans would vacation there if they could fly directly and didn't risk imprisionment for doing so.
| QUOTE |
| Oh really? The only people who would see it as a sign of weakness are the ones we're already busy stomping into the sand of the sandbox. I think it would be a good sign of humility. "No, we're not too good to accept help from everyone else. No, we're not 'above' the rest. Yes, we do need your help." |
When I wrote people I meant Republicans
Hyzmarca: Oh, I see. I thought you meant actual, if very malformed, specimens of the genus homo sapiens sapiens, not 'people' in the way I call my beagwhillier a people.
| QUOTE (hyzmarca) | ||
| I really don't think Fidel cares about spitting in our face. If he did, we wouldn't have our very own extraterritorial prision facility in Cuba. No, Fidel very much wants to resume econmoic relations with the US. The tourist industry is the biggest money maker in Cuba. American tourists can get to Cuba indirectly by going through the Bahamas, but more Americans would vacation there if they could fly directly and didn't risk imprisionment for doing so.
When I wrote people I meant Republicans |
WE won our extraterritorially prison in a war, he did not "give" it to us, and he does not have the army to take it back either, or else I have no doubt he would.
I'm not sure of the size of Cuba's current military, but at one time it had the largest standing army in the world. For such a small island, that is an impressive number of soldiers. While Cuba lacked the Navy requred to deploy those troops against any other nation, I have no doubt it could retake a piece of its own soil.
| QUOTE (hyzmarca) |
| I'm not sure of the size of Cuba's current military, but at one time it had the largest standing army in the world. For such a small island, that is an impressive number of soldiers. While Cuba lacked the Navy requred to deploy those troops against any other nation, I have no doubt it could retake a piece of its own soil. |
But could it keep it? I think not... WHy start a fight that you know you will lose in the end?
| QUOTE (Herald of Verjigorm) |
| Study on, all the numbers you need to try to prove whichever side of whatever situation that involves Cuba you want to argue. |
Thank you, Herald. Ocer 1,000,000 troops. Sure, most of them are untrained militia, but the US can't match the numbers. There is a very good reason why Cuba was never invaded during the Cold War and that is it.
However, Supercilious was incorrect to begin with. Gitmo was no won in any war. It was leased in 1903. That lease was renewed in 1934 and is still valid today. Fidel did cut off utility services to the base in the hopes that the US would reqest to terminate the lease, but the base was simply made self-sufficient.
http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:4Gwwm...lient=firefox-a
Look. ATM, will anyone deny that we have an issue with command & control in the Gulf Coast region? As in, coordination of relief efforts is nigh-on non-existant?
Now. Let's have 60+ countries put money and resources in there. But better yet, let's assume these countries don't want to turn over those resources to FEMA to manage, and would instead like to control things themselves. After all, being ordered around by the US = not fun...
Of course, some may say that may not fly with some of you. so let's just have all those people flood in to an insecure zone... And more likely than not, they don't speak the same language...
Or perhaps you expect it to be like the UN, and everyone get along fine in the name of humanitarianism?
I think the aid is awesome.. It's about time we started getting help from other countries, it's been lacking for the last 50 years. But you just can't throw resources at the problem and assume it'll go away.. You have to go about things in an ordered, structured, PRODUCTIVE way.
The monetary donations to the Red Cross are, at this immediate juncture, the most vital issue. So are low-duty or duty-free shipping of food and water to support the dislocated citizens. medical and personnel issues will come soon.
The thing is, people assume that not accepting the offer = turning down the offer. I promise you, each and every single offer that is being made, -is- going to be called on.. And probably more, if the State Dept. wants to press for it. But while the cameras are on NO, the area of destruction is -much- larger, and all of it needs to be considered and accounted for properly.
Now. Let's have 60+ countries put money and resources in there. But better yet, let's assume these countries don't want to turn over those resources to FEMA to manage, and would instead like to control things themselves. After all, being ordered around by the US = not fun...
Of course, some may say that may not fly with some of you. so let's just have all those people flood in to an insecure zone... And more likely than not, they don't speak the same language...
Or perhaps you expect it to be like the UN, and everyone get along fine in the name of humanitarianism?
I think the aid is awesome.. It's about time we started getting help from other countries, it's been lacking for the last 50 years. But you just can't throw resources at the problem and assume it'll go away.. You have to go about things in an ordered, structured, PRODUCTIVE way.
The monetary donations to the Red Cross are, at this immediate juncture, the most vital issue. So are low-duty or duty-free shipping of food and water to support the dislocated citizens. medical and personnel issues will come soon.
The thing is, people assume that not accepting the offer = turning down the offer. I promise you, each and every single offer that is being made, -is- going to be called on.. And probably more, if the State Dept. wants to press for it. But while the cameras are on NO, the area of destruction is -much- larger, and all of it needs to be considered and accounted for properly.
I don't trust the Red Cross any further than I could throw it, not after 9/11.
Why the hostility?
They had...accounting issues, let's say.
| QUOTE (FlakJacket) |
| Why the hostility? |
They are incompetent boobs, much like FEMA.
| QUOTE (Penta) |
| They had...accounting issues, let's say. |
That's one way of putting it. Another is to say they are fucking liars.
| QUOTE (Athenor @ Sep 4 2005, 03:10 PM) |
| Look. ATM, will anyone deny that we have an issue with command & control in the Gulf Coast region? As in, coordination of relief efforts is nigh-on non-existant? Now. Let's have 60+ countries put money and resources in there. But better yet, let's assume these countries don't want to turn over those resources to FEMA to manage, and would instead like to control things themselves. After all, being ordered around by the US = not fun... Of course, some may say that may not fly with some of you. so let's just have all those people flood in to an insecure zone... And more likely than not, they don't speak the same language... Or perhaps you expect it to be like the UN, and everyone get along fine in the name of humanitarianism? |
Command and control isn't that difficult to establish. You just pick 1 guy to be in charge and then let him delegate authority down the chain of command. It take all of 5 minutes provided everyone is communicating.
There are two major problems with establishing command and control at the moment. Problem 1 is communication. Telephone lines and cell towers are down. This is a problem but it is very solvable. The hurricane didn't do anything to the sattalites orbiting the earth. Just equip ever field unit with satalite phones and everything is taken care of.
Problem 2 is buearucracy. There are several diferent buearucracies involved in the relif efforts. All of them have their own chain of comand, their own rules and their own regulations. These entities can't just work together and share their resources. They have to file form and fill out paperwork. It is little more than a pissing created by idiotic rules meant to prevent individual corruption and malfeasance. Sometimes, however, you need a little corruption and malfeasance, this is one of those times. A dictator can get things done much more easily than a buearucrat can.
| QUOTE (Athenor) |
| Look. ATM, will anyone deny that we have an issue with command & control in the Gulf Coast region? As in, coordination of relief efforts is nigh-on non-existant? Now. Let's have 60+ countries put money and resources in there. But better yet, let's assume these countries don't want to turn over those resources to FEMA to manage, and would instead like to control things themselves. After all, being ordered around by the US = not fun... Of course, some may say that may not fly with some of you. so let's just have all those people flood in to an insecure zone... And more likely than not, they don't speak the same language... Or perhaps you expect it to be like the UN, and everyone get along fine in the name of humanitarianism? I think the aid is awesome.. It's about time we started getting help from other countries, it's been lacking for the last 50 years. But you just can't throw resources at the problem and assume it'll go away.. You have to go about things in an ordered, structured, PRODUCTIVE way. The monetary donations to the Red Cross are, at this immediate juncture, the most vital issue. So are low-duty or duty-free shipping of food and water to support the dislocated citizens. medical and personnel issues will come soon. The thing is, people assume that not accepting the offer = turning down the offer. I promise you, each and every single offer that is being made, -is- going to be called on.. And probably more, if the State Dept. wants to press for it. But while the cameras are on NO, the area of destruction is -much- larger, and all of it needs to be considered and accounted for properly. |
Yes, the relief effort will have to be coordinated. Usually, it's the affected country that does this, as they know their opwn homeland best (usually, in Africa, all bets are off).
I think the USA will get an organisational structure up and running to coordinate relief efforts at least as effective as Sri Lanka, Indonesia and Thailand did after the wave. And coordinating several national armies and NGOs and other organisations isn't that difficult. It won't be ideal, far from it, but even less than ideal help is better than none. And with so much equipment tied up in Iraq, the states cannot really afford to be choicy anyway.
And not accepting an offer IS turning down the offer. You cannot stack offers for help and call them in when you want. Besides, especially with this vast area that has been destroyed, the US needs material help. Field hospitals. Amphibious vehilces. Air transport capacity. Medication. Medical personnel. Generators. Batteries. All that stuff. And just having money won't quite help. Do you think money makes things magically form fron thin air?
| QUOTE (hyzmarca) |
| Problem 1 is communication... Problem 2 is buearucracy... |
Problem 3 is that the director of FEMA is incompetent.
Depressing...
Utterly unsurprising, actually.
This guy couldn't manage a horse show, but was put in charge of a disaster relief (relief, only, now that it's part of the Department of Big Brother) agency.
Genius!
This guy couldn't manage a horse show, but was put in charge of a disaster relief (relief, only, now that it's part of the Department of Big Brother) agency.
Genius!
The poor fraggers of New Orleans are boned.
| QUOTE (Supercilious) | ||
But could it keep it? I think not... WHy start a fight that you know you will lose in the end? |
The US has a lease on Guantanamo for as long as it wants. It's in the Cuban constitution as the Platt amendment (which was added back in 1903) and was reaffirmed later (in a 1934 treaty) with the lease payments. The US pays Cuba money every year for the lease. The termination of the lease requires both sides to agree.
Castro has only cashed the lease payment once. He's has never cashed any of the others as he considers the amendment illegitimate. But Castro's cashing of that first check is considered by the U.S. as a ratification of the lease under his Castro's government.
Whether Cuba can take back Guantanamo Bay back is immaterial. It's a nice play for sympathy for all of the places who were subjected to the Monroe Doctrine by the US (e.g. Mexico, Cuba, Chile, Nicaragua). It's a nice use of propaganda to point to those "nasty US imperialists' illegal holding of poor, little Cuba's land." Then again, simply breathing is Castro's best propaganda weapon against the US (and it just infuriates the Cuban exile community in South Florida).
| QUOTE |
| Study on, all the numbers you need to try to prove whichever side of whatever situation that involves [insert the issue] you want to argue. - Herald of Verjigorm |
(With the light edit adde by me, that fairly covers it all, Herald.)
| QUOTE |
| The first few days were a natural disaster. The last four days were a man-made disaster. - Phillip Holt, 51, who was rescued from his home on Saturday |
ARC accounting issues notwithstanding, they have still shown themselves to be the single most effective non-religious/relatively non-political vehicle to deliver aid on United States soil. Most of the other relief agencies I would normally linked -- did link, for the major tsunami relief effort -- just aren't set up for that region. Maybe the general assumption is that such a powerhouse of a country would have ensured internal disaster protocols already set up at every level of government. After all, a major function of government -- perhaps one of the very few that justifies its existence -- is its ability to respond to domestic disasters. Every level of government has explicit responsibilities in this matter. This past week, it would not be an exaggeration to say that every one of them failed.
(I see no point in scapegoating. My only focus is to deal with what's here and now, and to prevent something like this from happening in future. That may require identifying lines of failed responsibility.)
Those who have accepted the responsibility of everyday law enforcement are paying the price: two police officers have committed suicide, hundreds have turned in their badges or otherwise just given up.
With the failure of sewage systems, dysentery may now be active in Biloxi. (Still among the mildest of possible diseases arising from this situation: and it helps hugely that appropriate antibiotics are available and are being immediately distributed as needed.)
A British tourist who weathered Katrina in the Superdome and was recently evacuated notes that the human threat came from a minority of mainly young men: "The majority of the people of New Orleans are absolutely lovely ... Some families were ready to give us their food even though they had nothing". 131 Britons who had been in the hurricane area are still unaccounted for. (link)
Political and pride issues aside, I'm suddenly wondering whether it's actually easier for a foreign country to set up a relief effort generally: for much the same reason as it's frequently easier for an outside counsellor or mediator to help people solve problems than for someone entangled in those problems.
For the record, I'm not American, just a fellow human being.
| QUOTE (durthang) | ||
Kent State anyone? |
I'm lost. Nobody took pot shots at combat vets at Kent State... the only pot shots were fired by National Gaurdsmen at random students.
| QUOTE |
| Maybe the general assumption is that such a powerhouse of a country would have ensured internal disaster protocols already set up at every level of government. |
Can't speak for everyone, but that certainly was my assumption.
| QUOTE (JaronK) | ||||
I'm lost. Nobody took pot shots at combat vets at Kent State... the only pot shots were fired by National Gaurdsmen at random students. |
No, no one took pot shots at combat vets at Kent State. A group of protesters did throw rocks at armed National Guardsmen. My point being people do not always do the brightest things when it comes to armed soldiers.
| QUOTE (durthang) | ||||||
No, no one took pot shots at combat vets at Kent State. A group of protesters did throw rocks at armed National Guardsmen. My point being people do not always do the brightest things when it comes to armed soldiers. |
Does it matter? We've dropped the 82nd Airborne in on it.
That will solve their problems REAL quick. Anybody takes a potshot at the 82nd, and they're going to get their asses swisscheesed.
The 82nd are, you mean? Yeah, that's about right.
~J
~J
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