Full Version: Where are the SR4 hate threads?
| QUOTE (Sabosect) | ||
SR3 core rules, page 245, table titled Racial Attribute Limit Table:
The stats are in this order: Body, Quickness, Strength, Charisma, Intelligence, Willpower. |
And since we're talking about SR4 and why it sucks so much, I'd suggest that we'd look at the SR4 rules:
| QUOTE (p. 62 SR4) |
| The standard range of natural human attributes is rated on a scale of 1 to 6, with 3 being average. Physical and Mental attributes have a maximum natural rating of 6 plus or minus metatype modifiers, depending on metatype (see p. 73). The maximum augmented attribute value for each metatype is equal to 1.5 times this figure, rounded down (see the Metatype Attribute Table, p. 73). This also applies to Initiative. |
Thus for a human with exceptional attribute quality the hard cap on this particular attribute (of which he can only have one) is: 7*1.5 rounded down, which happens to be 10. All other attributes are stuck with a hard cap of 9
| QUOTE |
| To quote a really bad movie: This is the point where you fall down. |
Thus I have to ask myself who just went to that point where he's falling down
| QUOTE |
| A trauma damper is not what I consider as technically getting around drain. |
That's something that I have to consider as flawed logic, since a traum damper reduces the requirements to resist drain by 2 successes.
| QUOTE |
| The damage is done whether you notice it or not. |
Actually that damage isn't done once you manage to get the drain down to L level, since the damper reduces all damage by one box. If you only suffer one box, no damage occurs.
| QUOTE |
| Not suffering drain is never having to worry about the damage. |
Exactly, thus you don't have to worry about any drain that has L-level (regardless of before resisting or after) ...
| QUOTE (Cochise) | ||||||
And since we're talking about SR4 and why it sucks so much, I'd suggest that we'd look at the SR4 rules:
Thus for a human with exceptional attribute quality the hard cap on this particular attribute (of which he can only have one) is: 7*1.5 rounded down, which happens to be 10. All other attributes are stuck with a hard cap of 9 |
Under the context provided, the original poster asked "Have you ever....", in which case I was answering him. The only change for SR4 is the high number starts out one lower.
| QUOTE |
| Troll: +4B, -1A, +4S, -2C, -1I, -1L, -1Initiative |
Those are SR4 figures. You can easily end up with a Body of 10 out of chargen.
| QUOTE | ||
Thus I have to ask myself who just went to that point where he's falling down |
In the movie? Goro.
| QUOTE | ||
That's something that I have to consider as flawed logic, since a traum damper reduces the requirements to resist drain by 2 successes. |
The reason I don't count it is that it doesn't actually help in not having to ever worry about drain. Its major contribution is to make sure you don't notice it. That really doesn't help when you need to know if your next fireball will kill you.
| QUOTE | ||
Actually that damage isn't done once you manage to get the drain down to L level, since the damper reduces all damage by one box. If you only suffer one box, no damage occurs. |
Yeah. Problem is that, in most cases, you're either very advanced as an adept or the spells you are casting don't really do much. In either case, you don't really need the dampener, as you should have enough dice to take care of it on your own.
| QUOTE | ||
Exactly, thus you don't have to worry about any drain that has L-level (regardless of before resisting or after) ... |
Meh. See above.
High-force watchers are pretty much guaranteed drain unless you happen to have a trauma damper, in which case they're guaranteed no drain. Similar for other L-drain spells (though they're a little harder to get at high force).
| QUOTE (Sabosect) |
| That really doesn't help when you need to know if your next fireball will kill you. |
Is it possible, that you are mixing up trauma damper and pain editor??
| QUOTE (Sabosect) |
| Under the context provided, the original poster asked "Have you ever....", in which case I was answering him. The only change for SR4 is the high number starts out one lower. |
.. The next difference is that it's fundamentally harder to have other attributes at similar values, due to that "only half of your BP" cap on BPs for attributes and the fact that only one attribute can actually be at natural maximum ...
| QUOTE | ||
Those are SR4 figures. You can easily end up with a Body of 10 out of chargen. |
So yes, it is possible to have bod 10 Troll (or even higher with implants), but what else will he have? A Strength of 9 before implants and rather low values for the rest of his attributes (IIRC they average out at 3.33 or 3.5 before racial modifiers when using the maximum allowed BP) ...
| QUOTE |
| The reason I don't count it is that it doesn't actually help in not having to ever worry about drain. |
Never having to worry about Spells with L Drain and reducing any potential drain level by one at least IMHO is a significant part of not having to worry about drain.
| QUOTE |
| Its major contribution is to make sure you don't notice it. That really doesn't help when you need to know if your next fireball will kill you. |
It'll help sure as hell, since it'll take the fireballs max damage on drain from D (=10 boxes) down to S (with 9 boxes) even before you decide how many dice you'll assign for casting and how many to drain ...
| QUOTE |
| Yeah. Problem is that, in most cases, you're either very advanced as an adept or the spells you are casting don't really do much. |
This is the point where all those other "possibilities" come into play ...
Matter of fact: A "good" mage will rather cast a lvl 5 fireball with base damage of M and then simply kill individual targets via successes on his spell casting test while dealing with a 3D drain simply attemtping to get 6 successes on his drain restistance and let the trauma damper deal with the rest instead of casting that fireball on D level ...
And that's all within the range of a "starting" mage in SR3 (depending on how you treat cultured bioware for starters)
| QUOTE |
| In either case, you don't really need the dampener, as you should have enough dice to take care of it on your own. |
So for me, that's a rather important difference since the trauma damper's effect allows to move an average of 2 dice from drain allocated dice to dice allocated for spells while not seriously changing your chances on suffering / avoiding drain
| QUOTE (Eldritch) |
| My opinion is that that stuff doesn't need to be there. Either use the slang SR invented, or nothing at all. And sex in any incarnation has no place in a core rule book. Period. It's in bad taste. |
You are American, right?
The first thing parents here would be up in arms against is the violence portrayed in the media, and there is little that can be done about that with Shadowrun.
Swearwords are much less of a concern, as is any mention of bodily functions. Sure, it is an issue, but not on nearly the same level as the violence...
Likewise here in the UK.
But let's not turn this thread into a "the US is crazy about sex" thread
But let's not turn this thread into a "the US is crazy about sex" thread
| QUOTE (Oracle) | ||
Ok. You're right. Sex is such an unnatural and disgusting thing. It shouldn't be mentioned anywhere. At least it shouldn't be done by anyone. No, seriously: The world of Shadowrun is full of violence, drugs, weapons, apocalyptic nazi cultist wielding magical weapons of mass destruction, racism, spells made to turn people into a gooey substance, human sacrifice and so on. You will find all this in the core rulebook. The world of 2070 is no kindergarten. Sex is the single one most natural things in the world. So you think, that sex is 'worse' than violence? Sounds a little bit schizophrenic to me. |
So pedophilia belongs in a core rulebook? Brilliant. Sheer brilliance.
ahh hot coffee mod for SR, ahhh, run for your lives !
I think the answer to "Where are the SR4 hate threads?", is "Right here, buddy!"
| QUOTE (Gort) |
| But let's not turn this thread into a "the US is crazy about sex" thread |
way to late for that...
| QUOTE (Blacken) |
| So pedophilia belongs in a core rulebook? Brilliant. Sheer brilliance. |
I find the lack of
, , or 
in your post deeply disturbing.Or maybe it's this sense of "deja vu all over again" that this direction of the thread is giving me?
| QUOTE (Jürgen Hubert) | ||
You are American, right? The first thing parents here would be up in arms against is the violence portrayed in the media, and there is little that can be done about that with Shadowrun. Swearwords are much less of a concern, as is any mention of bodily functions. Sure, it is an issue, but not on nearly the same level as the violence... |
No, the first thing that most of these idiots and gloryhounds--oh, my mistake, concerned public citizens and politicians--will look at is "OMG! CURSING!" Next is "OMG! VIOLENCE!" And then we get, from whoever actually reads it instead of glossing over it..."OMG! IMMORALITY! PROTECT THE CHILDREN!
And I'm not exaggerating *that* much here.
Ok, this thread has degenerated really badly.
First off, and this goes to everyone on all sides of whatever debate you may be inbolved with, respect your fellow board members. And if you can't say anything civil to them, don';t say anything at all. I'm getting really, really sick of the bitching, whining, and flaming going on.
Keep it friendly, or I will start giviong time outs. When I start seieng posts on other message boards (So far 3 others that I personally read and know about) about how Dumpshock is both extremely unfriendly and unhelpful (and that's putting it nicely), that upsets me a great deal. So everyone, knock it off, talk about the topics at hand, and do NOT flame each other.
Bull
First off, and this goes to everyone on all sides of whatever debate you may be inbolved with, respect your fellow board members. And if you can't say anything civil to them, don';t say anything at all. I'm getting really, really sick of the bitching, whining, and flaming going on.
Keep it friendly, or I will start giviong time outs. When I start seieng posts on other message boards (So far 3 others that I personally read and know about) about how Dumpshock is both extremely unfriendly and unhelpful (and that's putting it nicely), that upsets me a great deal. So everyone, knock it off, talk about the topics at hand, and do NOT flame each other.
Bull
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