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SR3R Master Thread

Jon’s Glorious Karma Character Generation System (S3CKS)

Decking

Ranged Combat

Astral Space, Essence, and the Awakened

Cyberware

Time, Pool, and the Flow of Combat

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Decided:
(All of these are subject to reopening for discussion should there be any strong argument for a different path)
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In progress:

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As much as I'm disappointed with many of the rules and concepts in SR4, some of the gear has merit. Indeed, some of the gear not only has merit but is unavailable in SR3.

It's time to change that. Propose pieces of gear from SR4 you want in SR3R and we'll hash out rules for them. Keep in mind that nothing's likely to be finalized here until all of the rules relevant to the gear are sorted out, but it'll give something to do while letting ideas stew on other areas of the system. Note that I'm not as concerned about getting the exact same item as I am about achieving a similar effect (for instance, Item 1 below uses an Autosoft in SR4, while I don't much care if it does or not in SR3R).

1) Smart Firing Platform (SR4 page 311)

A portable tripod with a drone brain and combat autosoft costing ¥2,000. Allows for a 180-degree firing arc (maybe too generous? Makes bookkeeping easier, though I'm still inclined to go with 120 or so) with 60-degree elevation (should probably reduce this as well—for reference, vehicle turrets get 45-degree elevation, 75 with AA capability). Any gun can be put on top, though it needs to be smartlinked.

Any thoughts on how to do this? I'd like to keep the price for the platform itself low, under ¥10k if possible.

2) Miniwelder (SR4 page 327)

Granted this one's not so much from SR4. Proposal: take the tool laser eye-mod, reduce the price, slap a conceal rating and a weight on it and call it external. By canon you can only get tool lasers for your eyes.

Maybe it's all a plot to help Ares sell cybereyes.

Any thoughts? Other gear requests?

~J

Hmm… this is true, I guess that wouldn't be a problem.

I'll try making a mockup with a heavily-edited version of the vehicle construction rules.

~J

Kage

Look at Rigger 3 p.175

Ares Arms Sentry II

Yep, I know it's there. Issues:

Body 2, nominal weight 150 kilos. Maybe that's Troll-portable, but it sure ain't man-portable.

Cost: ¥43,500.

Uses a turret, which requires significant tinkering to swap the weapons into and out of. No snap on, deploy, and go.

Still a good guideline, though.

~J

My bad, perhaps a bod 1 variant of some sort?

Yeah, I'm working on that.

I've got a basic idea of where I'd be going with this, but it doesn't fit into my desired price/capability point. I'll finish up and post the expensive variant and, unless there's a groundswell of support for "disposable" turrets, just propose the cheap version to my group as a houserule.

~J

Not something new, but I like the way Orthoskin works in SR4. It is actually a useful implant, as opposed to the craptacularly useless piece of garbage it is in SR3.

Sentry system: Fields of Fire, pg. 46

Still over your budget, but very cost-effective. Adjust to your hearts desire.

It is rather weak compared to Dermal Sheathing. It rocks in SR4 (+1 per level (up to +3) to Ballistic and Impact Armor)

The PJSS Elephant Rifle. I don't recall seeing that in SR3, although I suppose I might have overlooked it. Looking at the damage codes, it looks like it should probably be about 12D, 14D for both barrels at once (short burst rules!). No integral accessories. 2(b) ammo. SS fire mode. 1 point of integral RC.

The Monofilament Chainsaw (page 327). Not so hot as a weapon (basically a very clumsy way to deal slightly-better-than Predator damage in melee), but by golly it's good for getting through doors. Assuming AP maps more-or-less onto Power and damage maps more-or-less onto Damage Level, I'd say: TN+2 when wielded as a melee weapon (using the Chainsaws skill, if it exists in SR3R). 10S damage against most targets. 20D vs barriers & objects.

Concealability of all tech needs serious re-working. Even with the erratas that came far too late, things are still 90's bulky. Phones and computers should be so streamlined that they fit into the frame of your glasses, and so integrated into people that there's no such thing as a person without it. Ie: much lower MP (and thus computer) costs.

For the smart firing platform I adapted a "generic" body 1 walking drone, which has enough capacity for some targeting upgrades and a single firmpoint that can take up to a LMG.

Called em GunPods. Even had one perched on the shoulder of the Troll team mate on occasion. Was a way for my rigger character to be immediately involved in runs even while in his suspension tank back in the battle van some distance away.


-karma

<damn, double post>

I'd like to see the stuff from pages 324 and 325, glasses, contact lenses, goggles, etc. with the various vision enhancements as well as earbuds and hearing enhancements.

I think we just need tactical illuminators for your pistol.

I once wrote up rules for those, too.

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...luminator&st=25

Wow, this thread took a long time to collate... Most of the comments are from other threads and it relates to equipment in general, not JUST SR4 stuff.

I've been collecting notes. Here they are:

Equipment
A) Armor stacking/encumbrance based off strength or body, not quickness
B) Cyberware costs need to be brought in line, especially comm gear, cyberlimbs, headware memory (see prices below)
C) Better encumberance rules
1 Replace weight with 'encumbrance index' to represent weight & mass. Makes things like webbing more useful, since things need pockets.
2 Concealability needs to be reworked simultaneously
D)Better drug rules (see Nezumi's drug rules below)
E) Permitting system should make more sense - make a broad 'pistols' permit with a flat price, plus permits for anything used by corp security forces (as opposed to true military hardware)
1 No permits required for clubs and knives
F) Surgery rules in general should be kinder and allow for a $1,000 datajack installation at the local mall
1 Essence hole is automatic, not an 'option'
G) Some equipment is 'common' and used cost is marked down to 25% (chipjack, cyberears, eyes, datajack, subvocal mic, telephone, cyberlimbs, autoinjector, biomonitor system, handblade, handrazors, smartlink, spurs, cyberskates)
H) Make cyberlimbs more useful
1 Reduce prices and essence cost
2 Automatically have ballistic & impact armor of 2/2, default strength and quickness of racial maximum, -1 recoil compensation, two legs count as having hydraulic jacks of rating 1. Any further value is in addition to this
I) Add equipment
1 latex mask
2 monofilament chainsaw
3 tool laser/mini-welder
4 fiber optic probe (handheld & cyber)
5 smart firing platform (for stationary "drone" guns)
6 PJSS Elephant rifle (12 or 14D, SS)
7 glasses, contact lenses, goggles with vision enhancements (instead of cybereyes)
8 earbuds with hearing enhancements (instead of cyberears)
9 "colortact" color shifting contact lenses, color shifting hair, facial feature shifting cyberware
10 Tactical illuminators for pistols
11 Belt sword (flexible sword blade that can be easily concealed as a belt)
12 More Cyberpunk 2020 mods!! (I can create a list if people would like)
13 Introduce SR4 eye and ear grades
J) Fake SINs need avail and SI numbers
1 1-3 4/2 Days, 4-6 6/1 week, 6-9 8/1 month, 10+ 10/(rating)weeks, SI 2 for all ratings


Cyberware costs:


Thoughts? Comments? I like everything suggested so far, especially my suggestions. They're the best.

I'd definitely enjoy a list of Cyberpunk 2020 stuff.

The thread was misnamed. For now, let it be the central repository of all new-gear ideas and all gear-altering ideas that aren't part of another basic mechanic (so, say, altering the VCR wouldn't go here). If in doubt, put it here.

I concur on the CP2020 stuff.

~J

How about a circa SR2 Tactical Computer?

Going with what Ryu said, just go with the Sentry 2 system from FoF, and reduce the cost by 75%. (think of it as the off brand discount).

Would someone mind briefly listing what the SR1 tac computer did?

These are the abridged rules from Shadowtech. They are patchy due to a bodgy OCR scan I tried on this item years ago so I could update it to 3rd ed. Now I use it straight from Shadowtech.

Every sense that is applicable to the current combat situation gives the TC 1 rating point.
A TC can keep track of (or 'mark') and project the predicted movements of a number of targets equal to the users intelligence + TC rating.
To successfully mark a target, the TC must make a Success Test pitting its rating against a variable Target number.
The Target number is based on the range to the target as if it were a shotgun. All applicable Ranged Situation Modifiers apply.
The successes generated should be noted for each target. This is the system's Success Level for each target.
The target can shake the marking by breaking out of the TC's line-of-sight. Doing so forces the TC to attempt to reacquire the target when the target becomes visible again. To do so, roll dice equal to the system's rating against a base target Number 1, modified upward by 1 for every metre the target moved while out of line-of-sight and 1 for every full combat turn that has passed. If this test succeeds, the Success Level for that target is now based on the successes generated from this test.
If the test fails the target must be re-marked. The presence of an accurate map of the area (game master’s discretion) in headware memory or linked through a datajack reduces the Target Number of the Reacquisition Test by 3.
The targeting feature and trajectory computation adds an additional number of dice equal to the previously generated Success Level for that target to all Combat Success Tests against that target. This modifier is applied only to those targets marked by the targeting system, and is valid for both melee and ranged combat.
TC bonuses do not assist in decking and are not cumulative with sensor-enhanced gunnery.
Orientation systems add 2 to the TC rating.
All system functions are background tasks, requiring no actions to call up or perform.
Add the TC rating to initiative though initiative may not exceed its normal maximum.

Damn slow typing

...More new fun stuff

...Fichetti Pain Inducer
...General Disguise Kit (Rating 1 - 6)
...Nanopaste Disguise
...Stick & Shock Rounds
...Virtual Pet
...Virtual Person
...Virtual Wallspace
...War Fan (Edged Weapon) [Damage (Str + 1)M, Reach 0, Conceal 8 (folded) Wt .5]

...reworking existing stuff

...Expanded ratings on Bioware as per SR4 (Synthcardium, 1 - 3 Cerebral Booster 1 - 3, Tailored Pheromones 1 - 3 etc.)
...Streamline Skillsofts (Active, Knowledge, Language) and other non-decking computer gear by replacing Mp Programme Size ratings with a less cumbersome system. This would also require some rework of Skillwires and Headware Memory.

War fans are usually bashing, and that seems like a sorta high damage code.

~J

...this was based on the folding Tessen carried by Samurai however the tips of the metal spokes are fashioned into razor sharp blades and it has a reinforced edge along the open end. It is primarily a slashing weapon. I may be in error on the +1 (haven't looked at the character who had it in a long time), it could have actually been (STR -1)M

Making it sharp defeats most of the combat point of the war fan (being relatively unweaponlike)—though you can still use it to signal with, that being its main usefulness. The conceal also seems kinda high. I guess since a punch is (STR)M Stun I can't really give it lower than (STR+1)M Stun, which makes it a fancy club.

~J

...more style than practicality in the historic sense. It is, alas, a "modern" take on the original concept. Ran it by a fairly tough & knowledgable GM for approval who allowed it. Had to give it a try here.

I feel the need to reiterate, I'm drawing to the close of my initial editing of my new equipment list. The majority of it I brought in with the assumption that it would be useful to SR3R. Where should I put it for final vetting and/or approval? Or is there no interest? I know I have at least a few items which have been specifically requested (for instance, Kage requested stationary firing mounts that don't cost an arm and a leg, so I made two for his consideration).

Oh, right. Well, if it doesn't fit well here you could send it to me at my username at kanshishakage.net and I'll toss it up on sr3r.net for discussion.

~J

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=16544

I'll drop the thing in its final, edited entirety here for another run-down if people are up to it, as well as e-mailing it to Kage.

...Thanks, I'll give it a look see at lunch.

[edit - addendum]

Made it about halfway through.

I like the idea of bringing in the Ramjet Rifle concept.

It would also be nice to see a Gyrojet Rifle since the link cetiah gave had images of both pistol & rifle versions.

The Nauseator is also great concept. Actually had experienced such an effect in RL when a serious level subsonic feedback was created while a sound check was being made at an outdoor venue. Several people were nearly knocked out by it. Yes there is a precedent.

This thread, and the other SR3R threads are being moved over to Community Projects. The original Shadowrun 3rd Revised thread will remain in the Shadowrun forum. They're getting quite a lot of traffic and are sticking to the top of the Shadowrun forum, but would be more appropriately placed in Community Projects.

What happened to AV Minigrenades from FoF?

How would an AV grenade work different from say HE?

Was on NSRCG, just checked the book myself and it's not there. Random.

I'm all for an AV-esk grenade so long as its restricted to a launched type, as opposed to a hand thrown type. Rather hard to fire a shaped charge with something that, by its nature, going to be a 'close enough' weapon.

I'm also heavily in favor of a gyrojet rifle, for fairly obvious reasons.

Headware memory. Yeah this is a kettle of fish that I almost don't want to open without sorting thru the entire sr3r decking thread. Now admittedly, in 198-something when Sr1 came about, disk space and memory in all forms where expensive and not very small (5 1/4" floppys anyone, as the 3 1/2" wasent introduced untill 1987), but this just needs some serious updating. Prehaps its just that I carry a 4 gig flash drive next to my car keys. The big thing IMO is how much essence head memory takes up. My thoughts:

Cut overall cost in half (¥75 per MP)
Break essence cost down into 100mp segments (say .1 per 100mp)
Street Index of 1

That would bring the cost of a 300MP unit which is good for 2.5 hours of video &audio, down to .3 essence and ¥22,500.