It's not that bad...

Eddie, Cray74 was talking about SR and without the optional Heat Dissipation rules.

As for favourite SMG, I went for the MP5. Like BMW, Bose & Beckenbauer, it has that germanic quality of precision with a dash of style.

as has been said, take the tool for the job. I stated my prefrence, and why I didn't pick some of the others. and so what if some of my logic os a bit off. reason is reality, if I think somehting is true, it will effect the way I operate correct? if I think that my p-90 could have a problem hitting the floor then I won't dive so hard, may mean I'm a bit slower, see my point. I did a training course where the weapon to be issued was way our of date, and was considerably weak. ( a 4" .38 is very low on my list of wepons to take to a fight) however the reason was, they were proven, indestructable, and you would never have to worry about the gun. any moron could run one, it takes some stress out of the firefight. of course unless there was a real need for it, I'd rather carry buckshot than an SMG. funny, russian federal HRTs (no longer spetsznaz) got issued ak-74s, threw 'em out and swiched to back to shotguns for pretty much all CQB work. they have a few tricks. I love dumpshock and its perpensity for apples vs. oranges vs. mustardball arguments

exactly how is that. yes I was corrected on one point. a technical detail. my bad. however I seems interesting to me that when my opinions do not mesh with someone elses world view, that I'm utterly wrong. my original post contained one techical detail, (yes I was wrong) one bit of half remembered speculation and some opinion. I accept the fact that yes having not handled any fully automatic weapons my personal experiance is not the best sourse of information. I also am a student of history, and certain weapons tend to expend more ammo to hit a target than others. I feel that it is telling that police in confrontations often worry more about the stray rounds heading past them than rounds that could hit them. unrelated question, am I the only person here that thinks that preseption is more improtant to reality? sorry bout my misinformedness jacking the thread

very literally.

why isn't my baby, the HK227-S, up there? small size, high cap, high damage, integral suppression--no full-auto is the only downside.

You attach a bayonet to your pistol so that when you throw it at superman, you can be sure he will duck to get out of the way.

My favorite SMG

I play mages, what?

Depends. From the looks of some of the guys I've seen at the gun shop I shoot at, "downrange" counts as anything in your front arc.

I'd buy a Glock just for that modification.

Not that I'd ever use it, but the giggle factor alone makes it worthwhile.

-Siege

There is no such thing as a Class III license. Class III is a category of firearms, and license to own is individual to each weapon. If you want to own three M249s, you will have to file for each separately, and, of course, they must have been made before 1986. After 1986, it's military, law enforcement, and a specific class of deals (who can only own them as 'dealer samples').

Does that still stand with the assault rifle ban expired?

The assault weapon ban had nothing to do with that. It banned pistol grips and bayonette lugs and magazines over 10 rounds. That was basically it.

The laws dealing with actual assault weapons are the 1934 National Firearms Act and the 1986 ban on registering new fully automatic weapons, which is why any fully automatic weapons made before 1986 that are still transferrable and legal are ridiculously expensive. An M249 stateside can run you around $50,000. All the expiration of the assault weapon ban meant was that everyone could stop paying $80 for old magazines and cut off their ugly thumbhole stocks.

The assault weapon ban was a masterwork of "sounds impressive but dosen't actually acheive anything".

It banned certain weapons not by how they operated, as on might expect, but by how they looked.

So there was this endless cycle. Manufacturers looking at the banned feature list ("Okay, no pistol grips, no bayonet, but a stock is okay as long as it dosen't fold.") and just making assault weapons without those features. Then the ban would be revised with new cosmetic features that were now verboten. And the manufacturers would go back and redesign again. Over and over.

It was like trying to ban alcohol by what style of bottle it came in.


-karma

To make it completely clear to the unfamiliar, assault weapons, as the term is understood around the world (select fire, automatic weapons, generally intended for paramilitary combat use) have been very strictly regulated in the United States since 1934 and no new ones have been allowed into civilian hands since 1986. The recently sunsetted Assault Weapon that Karma is talking about quite literally never dealt with assault weapons to begin with, so the name is some of a misnomer— not exactly unintentionally, either.

Hopefully, this ends this threadjack. I want to hear more about my thompson gunners, Van Owen and the rest.

Oh, damn. I knew that. My mistake. I was thinking of something else.

Surprising that SR didn't pick up on some sort of updated Thompson.

I can see the Street Samurai Catalog entry already... "An undeniable classic updated for life in the shadows. Great new tech, same great look!"

It could have a higher stopping power than the average SMG, but a lower conceal rating due to the high capacity drum magazine. Complete with a smartgun link and lightweight polymers instead of milled steel.

I voted for the Thompson, mainly because it's the only SMG with which I have any RL experience--I actually had an opportunity to fire one, an M-1921A1, when I was about 15 or so, if not just a bit younger. For those of you who may be new here, I'll be 42 on May 30th of next year.

Yes, it's heavy as H**L, overly complex, and has been obsolescent for at least 40 years, but it's put together like a Swiss watch, and reliable as all-get-out.

It's also quite controllable, in part because of its weight, as long as you restrict your full-auto use to short bursts-- i.e., three to five rounds per trigger pull.

My second choice would probably be the Browning Automatic Rifle (any variant), but that wasn't among the options. Granted, it's very heavy--between 18 and 20 pounds, depending upon what variant. However, it is QUITE well-balanced; I had the opportunity to handle one once, and most of the weight was exactly where it should've been--between my right and left hands (the former was on the pistol grip, and the latter on the fore-end). Its main flaw is the feed device; it only has a 20-round magazine (which doesn't last long at a maximum rate of fire of 600 rounds per minute--10 rounds per second in SR terms), but how many other 20th Century man-portable automatic weapons (with the exception of the M-249 SAW and the M-60 GPMG, and their equivalents from other nations) pack enough punch to stop a CAR using standard ammo (.30-'06 Springfield/7.62 X 63mm, in this case)?

--Foreigner

Well, the BAR's not a sub machinegun, which is what the poll's about, but of all the thompson gunners, Roland was the best.

Gah, of course. Keep mixing up Classes and Titles. BATFESpeak can all run together, sometimes. Would be nice if any of it made any damn sense, so the CIA decided they wanted Roland dead.

Yeah, it definitely gets confusing. Pretty sure that's by design.

Hey Arethusa, you going to be in Denmark anytime soon? Got a job for you.

I'm a big fan of the Thompson gun, but you need to be wearing a fedora and duster or trench coat to be able to use one.

~J

In SR, I'd have to say that my favorite SMGs are a toss-up between the SuperMach 100 (P90) and the HK227 (MP5 variant).

I like the SuperMach 100 for the suppressive fire, but I wish they would have made it armor-piercing, like the P90 is in RL. I would be happy to pay more for ammo if it were automatically armor-piercing, just like the Barret 121. That's how they should have handled the SuperMach 100, in my opinion. (As a side note, has anyone seen how high the price is for 5.7x28 ammo?!? )

I like the HK227 for the simplicity of it. SA/BF/FA, 7M, and a laser sight! It's pretty much good to go right out of the box. I only wish it had a slightly larger magazine capacity.

As for SMGs I hate, I would have to go with the Ingram Smartgun (Mac10). The ONLY reason I can't stand it is the artist's rendition of it. They drew it with a suppressor attached, yet claimed it has GVII, and they also try to claim it's as concealable as an Ares Predator! I know it's kind of a petty thing to bicker about, but it's a pet peeve of mine. If they're gonna base their guns off of real examples, they should do a little research first. (As another side note, there's a good example of a suppressed Mac10 in Pulp Fiction. I believe there was also a John Wayne movie with one in it. Suppressed .45 SMGs rock!)

Now, let's talk about SMGs in real life... The only one I've shot so far will always be my favorite. It was an HK51, with vertical foregrip and collapsible stock. (Imagine an MP5-PDW, but in .308 caliber! And yes, it was full-auto! ) It's more of an SBR (Short Barrelled Rifle) than an SMG, but it still counts in my book!

Actually, by the book the Smartgun is, IIRC, the best deal in terms of goodies, capacity and price. Unless you want Smartlink II. But then it's not alone in the pantheon of SR SMGs without Smartlink II.

What makes you think the Ingram SuperMach is (1) called "SuperMach 100," and (2) anything like a P90?

Well, the picture in Fields of Fire is the inbred demonspawn of a P90 and a Calico.

Regardless, I fail to see why it matters than you can get other ammo besides AP for it.