Full Version: Half of texas?
Fireschwing (or whatever) was (and maybe still is) a Great Dragon.
Firewing (german Feuerschwinge) was a Great? Seriously? If so, I stand corrected, and a Great was downed by a bunch of Eurofighters and Tigers.
QUOTE (hermit @ Mar 11 2008, 06:23 AM) 
Shinto isn't a religion in our sense. Shinto believes in living spirits in everything; it's animist and very, very vague. Godzilla can well be interpreted as a menancing kami out to avenge mankinds ecological sins, or just menancing because it has a bad day (that's how Godzilla is usually portraied in the new movies, anyway). Kami are neither omnipotent nor invulnerable. They're not gods in the sense God is. They're spirits, but they're also mortal and limited. Additionally, they're so pop culture and commonly integrated into modern life with most japanese, they'd definitly not find back to 'true' shintoism in droves - simply because there IS no 'true' Shintoism. It's very much mix and match.
Anyway, 4 Million is maybe a bit low a figure - just, many Japanese won't readily associate themselves with Shintoism as a religion in the way Westerners would with their faith of choice. Asians tend to have a very different, less dogmatic way of living out their faith (or not).
Anyway, 4 Million is maybe a bit low a figure - just, many Japanese won't readily associate themselves with Shintoism as a religion in the way Westerners would with their faith of choice. Asians tend to have a very different, less dogmatic way of living out their faith (or not).
Bwah?
Forgive me, but your definition of religion is very different than the one I'm familiar with... Quite a bit stricter, you might say. By your definition, outlined above, 'Religion' didn't exist until Jesus... excepting a single tiny nation of wandering nomads living around Jerusalem...
If I were a Shintoist I'd be quite offended. Hell, if I was a Bhuddist, I'd be pretty offended to. Last I checked, buddists don't have an omnipresent omnipotent god either.... and last I checked they clocked in arount Number three in terms of size of the faith....
QUOTE
By your definition, outlined above, 'Religion' didn't exist until Jesus... excepting a single tiny nation of wandering nomads living around Jerusalem...
... and a huge empire of Egypteans worshipping Ra, yes. Also, Athenian and Roman cults, definitly count - Chistianity basically just adopted the apparatus of the Cult of Jupiter, remnants of which can be seen in using incense in catholic services. Hindusim - a religion by far older than Judaism, also applies. But not Shintoism, not as I have been explained it.
QUOTE
Hell, if I was a Bhuddist, I'd be pretty offended to. Last I checked, buddists don't have an omnipresent omnipotent god either....
So where's the offense? I didn't say they don't count as a religion (neither did I say that about Shinto)? Besides, Buddhism both HAS an omnipresent deity type being (as Hindusim has, by the way) and is a rather dogmatic religion, too. Actually, the Ideas of the Buddah Siddharta and Jesus have some similarities, though Buddhism is about half a Millenium older.
QUOTE
and last I checked they clocked in arount Number three in terms of size of the faith....
According to www.adherents.com and the World Christian Encyclopedia, they clock in as #6 (#5 if you keep the agnostic/atheist faction out of the equasion).
Now, Shintoism has it's cults that are fairly dogmatic, yes. But overall, from what I've been explained, it's a very loose tradition.
Now, if you want to continue discussing this, we better take this to PMs, okay?
Buddhism doesn't have a god. I don't know where you got that from. It also doesn't have many dogmas.
QUOTE
... and a huge empire of Egypteans worshipping Ra, yes. Also, Athenian and Roman cults, definitly count - Chistianity basically just adopted the apparatus of the Cult of Jupiter, remnants of which can be seen in using incense in catholic services. Hindusim - a religion by far older than Judaism, also applies. But not Shintoism, not as I have been explained it.
Actually, by the definition you posted? No they don't. You specifically said 'omnipresent and omnipotent'...things that only arrived on the scene as the Abrahaminic faiths matured. The Egyptian gods, the greco-roman cults, none of the historically recognized religions had omnipresent omnipotent gods. Ra was in the sky, on a boat in the underworld... someplace specific. You could HIDE from Ra... In other words, he reads more like a Kami than a God... by your definition.
QUOTE
So where's the offense? I didn't say they don't count as a religion (neither did I say that about Shinto)? Besides, Buddhism both HAS an omnipresent deity type being (as Hindusim has, by the way) and is a rather dogmatic religion, too. Actually, the Ideas of the Buddah Siddharta and Jesus have some similarities, though Buddhism is about half a Millenium older.
QUOTE
Shinto isn't a religion
I already quoted the offending line, in bold no less, but here it is again. Now, if you had said, say, confucionism... well, its debatable depending upon who you ask, but yes, it does lack any real spiritual (godly) aspects, yet in every other aspect.
QUOTE
According to www.adherents.com and the World Christian Encyclopedia, they clock in as #6 (#5 if you keep the agnostic/atheist faction out of the equasion).
Now, Shintoism has it's cults that are fairly dogmatic, yes. But overall, from what I've been explained, it's a very loose tradition.
Now, if you want to continue discussing this, we better take this to PMs, okay?
Now, Shintoism has it's cults that are fairly dogmatic, yes. But overall, from what I've been explained, it's a very loose tradition.
Now, if you want to continue discussing this, we better take this to PMs, okay?
I don't particularly, I just want you to realize that saying
QUOTE
Shinto isn't a religion
is likely to be as offensive as if I said 'Baptists aren't christian' depending upon whom you are speaking to. Baptists for one. Me? I happen to study history and religion as hobbies, and I happen to enjoy Japan as an interest, so you managed to trip three buttons with me. Animist religions are no less religioius for being animist in nature, and predate modern religions by a significant margin (evidence goes as far as to suggest hundred thousand years if some statues are what we think they are...) and ARE religions. And Shintoism, complete with temples and monks and nuns, prayers, rituals and an afterlife fits every technical and layman definition of religion that I can think of.
Now: IF you really think it is debatable, and you want to change my mind, I suppose I could go PM, but I think I've made my case clear enough. You made a sweeping generalization and it was moderately offensive in its blindingly dismissive attitude towards non-abrahaminic faiths. As far as I'm concerned, my work is done. I've made a public correction for the record, which was my point.
This is a Moderator Post.
As a reminder of the dumpshock Terms of Service:
Arguing what constitutes a religion is outside of the scope of Shadowrun. As does classifying belief systems, save as they apply to magical traditions. This thread has received previous warnings, and so is being closed.
As a reminder of the dumpshock Terms of Service:
QUOTE ("Terms of Service")
4. Discussion of politics, religion, and sex are prohibited, except as they directly pertain to Shadowrun or another game. Discussions on these subjects will be watched closely, and any innapropriate posts may result in warnings or suspensions.
Arguing what constitutes a religion is outside of the scope of Shadowrun. As does classifying belief systems, save as they apply to magical traditions. This thread has received previous warnings, and so is being closed.
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