A guess originally, now backing up with theory (as i think about it)
1 - The dragon most mentioned in Cara Fahd.
2 - Krathis Gron got trained somewhere in the orient - tibet perchance?
3 - Dvilgaynon was a key in the dragon ritual to seal of Vivane city which was a big magical barrier, a bit like the one over Tibet. She also seemed the most prepared for oddity from that little trick, which suggests somesort of experience.
This is from memory mostly.
You mentioned Cara Fahd and my brain popped up the idea. It's been a while since I played the crossover hunting game in ernest.
Full Version: Wireless and Magical Networks
I'd say you're onto something. Someone could definitely take that start and roll with it.
Does this suggest I have the canon idea or that canon hasn't decided and that this may fit?
Maybe I should get my writing arse in gear...
Maybe I should get my writing arse in gear...
| QUOTE (Ophis) |
| Does this suggest I have the canon idea or that canon hasn't decided and that this may fit? Maybe I should get my writing arse in gear... |
Tell me more!
| QUOTE (Ophis) |
| Does this suggest I have the canon idea or that canon hasn't decided and that this may fit? |
There is a pretty canon idea what is going on there, though since it's not in print, it's always malleable until that point.
But really, all I'm saying there is that there are more clues that back or refute your theory.
Hey don't ask, I'm just creating theories....
I just hope I get a namecheck if Demonseed Elite stea.. err works with my ideas.
I need to reread my old ED stuff again! that and work on my ideas of Lancaster in SR4, though soem clues to the Uks status would be nice for that.
Wait a mo. The uk is one of the other place with a powerline network. Also home to Transys Neuronet (now part of NeoNET) one of the minds behind the wireless matrix initiative, which seems to have altered the way Otaku now work. Damn i'm going bto have to by the patchy Theran source book...(if I can find it).
I just hope I get a namecheck if Demonseed Elite stea.. err works with my ideas.
I need to reread my old ED stuff again! that and work on my ideas of Lancaster in SR4, though soem clues to the Uks status would be nice for that.
Wait a mo. The uk is one of the other place with a powerline network. Also home to Transys Neuronet (now part of NeoNET) one of the minds behind the wireless matrix initiative, which seems to have altered the way Otaku now work. Damn i'm going bto have to by the patchy Theran source book...(if I can find it).
Wonder if Krathis Gron is still alive...
Funnily enough I decided about a week ago that she is (or might be) alive in my campaign. Wish I knew a bit more about her now.
I doubt it, my suspicions about immortal orks rests elsewhere...
| QUOTE (Ophis) |
| I just hope I get a namecheck if Demonseed Elite stea.. err works with my ideas. |
Haha, will do.
But as far as Tibet goes, I already have some pretty clear ideas behind it, that were all pitched back when I pitched Tibet for Shadows of Asia. Not as much on any magical wireless network (I just like to point out correlations between the idea and ED info), but definitely on the who's who of Tibet.
As folks like SL James and mfb know (as well as anyone from my Shadowland days), I've been working on SR's Tibet for a long time. Long before SoA, and I only got to put a small bit of my notes into the SoA wordcount.
Well, to first state, I haven't read any Shadowrun 4 yet (I'm not even sure what a technomancer technically is...) and I haven't read SoA, but I am finding this thread really interesting. So I thought I'd offer up some thoughts on the whole Magical matrix concept (I assume they have been voiced before (and in a more articulate way) but I haven't noticed those posts yet...)
If we assume that magic is created/channeled by a users belief then we can assume that if enough people believe in something it has the power to take shape or be created. So, if you have enough people connected to the matrix and believing in it as a unique location in and of itself, could that not over time give it "substance" and in fact make it into a "metaplane" where some people who are mystically talented would be able to manipulate it and affect it, like working the threads of magic?
Could this in fact be how some of the metaplanes and totems were first created? Born out of the beliefs of primitive man?
And maybe the Deep Resonance is in fact the birth of a new metaplane and perhaps soon we will see the birth of new "techno-totems" for shamans to follow. Who would want to play a Wolf Shaman when you could play a CPU Shaman...
And, could these mystical/cyber monks, be trying to activily cause this new metaplane to form? For what purpose I do not know, but I'd guess it would be to somehow fight the Horde.
Or now that I think about it, maybe it would not be a new Metaplane, maybe the Matrix would just become world covering "lay line", linking the magical essence of everyone connect to it.
The book American Gods by Neil Gaiman, has a simular theme about the clash between the gods of old (Odin, Thor, etc... vs. the "new" gods live televison, electricity, etc...) it's a good read.
If we assume that magic is created/channeled by a users belief then we can assume that if enough people believe in something it has the power to take shape or be created. So, if you have enough people connected to the matrix and believing in it as a unique location in and of itself, could that not over time give it "substance" and in fact make it into a "metaplane" where some people who are mystically talented would be able to manipulate it and affect it, like working the threads of magic?
Could this in fact be how some of the metaplanes and totems were first created? Born out of the beliefs of primitive man?
And maybe the Deep Resonance is in fact the birth of a new metaplane and perhaps soon we will see the birth of new "techno-totems" for shamans to follow. Who would want to play a Wolf Shaman when you could play a CPU Shaman...
And, could these mystical/cyber monks, be trying to activily cause this new metaplane to form? For what purpose I do not know, but I'd guess it would be to somehow fight the Horde.
Or now that I think about it, maybe it would not be a new Metaplane, maybe the Matrix would just become world covering "lay line", linking the magical essence of everyone connect to it.
The book American Gods by Neil Gaiman, has a simular theme about the clash between the gods of old (Odin, Thor, etc... vs. the "new" gods live televison, electricity, etc...) it's a good read.
Mass hysteria would be a VERY dangerous event in the 6th world, then. Imagine if America's fervor over WMDs resulted in their manifestation in enemy territory. I like your ideas, man!
Now this is interesting
| QUOTE ("Street Magic @ pg. 124") |
| On the astral plane, the Maya Cloud is a swirling miasma of mana that totally obscures astral sight and carries an emotional signature heavy with feelings of betrayal, loneliness, and fear. |
What happened here that would cause such a powerful storm full of those emotions? A great tradgedy or war? The death of a Great Dragon or group of powerful magicians? It sounds as if the Maya Cloud may even be holding something in. Perhaps the emotions are that of it's captive. I would feel all of those things If I were cut off from the rest of the world.
| QUOTE (ED Dragons book) |
| Now then, our magical nature is born into us as surely as our knowledge of Naming. Dragons are in touch with the primal forces of what you call astral space, the wellspring of all magic in this world. We can see the astral patterns of things around us, the astral imprints of living things, and the ebb and flow of astral energies around us. Magic is to us like air is to you: it is our natural environment, our very essence. While your people have learned to understand and control a tiny amount of magic, they have only brushed the surface of an ocean deeper and more mysterious than the Selestrean Sea itself. Like our own Names, we know the depths of these mysteries, know the powers of magic, from the very time we are born. Astral space is the pool from which we draw our magic and our very life. Our knowledge of the currents of astral energies allows us to affect the outcome of events, to tip the balance of Fate towards a desired end. For most dragons, this ability is an expression of will and magical power, affecting only their own actions. For the more advanced and capable (such as myself) we can work our wills to change the fates of other creatures as well as ourselves. // The young dragon enters the realm of astral space like a bird returning to the forest where it is born. There it uses magic to weave a cocoon of astral threads around itself where it will sleep and undergo the transformation. These cocoons exist only in astral space, and cannot be seen or detected from the physical world. It is during this time that the dragon's True Pattern changes and its body changes as well, taking on the adult form that is familiar to the Young Races of Barsaive. // Dragonspeech allows us to communicate with each other with more than simple words. We can also speak in thoughts, images, and ideas. Spoken language is crude and imprecise by comparison. You can place multiple meanings in words, and your poets and artists amuse themselves with double entendres and word-games, but we can describe multiple layers of thought and meaning in an instant through our own form of communication. Combining movement and dragonspeech allows us to describe an entire experience or concept quickly, clearly and easily. The power of dragonspeech is used from a very young age to begin educating our hatchlings, and is another important role of the guardian. Great dragons are the experienced elders of dragonkind. Using dragonspeech, it is possible for us to pass on our wisdom and knowledge directly without needing to try and express the customs and traditions of millenia in words. It would take more volumes than your entire Great Library to hold such knowledge. I often think this vastness of our own language is the reason why dragons are so adept with Names. We see the deeper meaning of a Name all at once, understanding, experiencing the whole of it rather than breaking it into word, sound, and meaning. // Normally, dragonspeech is only the projection of thought; one mind sending its ideas into another. However, many of us learn to listen as well as speak with our minds. Yes, this allows us to see into the minds of others, Tiabdjin, and know their thoughts and memories. What? No, I didn't do it just then. // To record important knowledge, we dragons use magically prepared pieces of living crystal we call memory crystals. The crystalline structure of living crystal serves to capture and hold the thoughts, memories, images and ideas projected into it, freezing them like an insect caught in a piece of amber, maintained as they are, unchanging with the passage of time. Once such information has been placed within a memory crystal, dragonspeech can be used to retrieve the wisdom placed within the crystal. In this way we preserve important knowledge so it is not lost. // We spend most, in fact nearly all, of our time in our lairs in a state we call shal-mora. It has no translation in any other Name-giver language, but it has some similarities (albeit vague) to the state the obsidimen call "the Dreaming" among their own kind. It is a trance-state somewhere between sleep and deep thought, nearly indistinguishable from sleep to non-dragons. A dragon in shal-mora is at rest, usually curled up on the floor of its lair, and to most onlookers appears to be slumbering. In truth, dragons do not sleep or dream nearly as often as the Young Races do, perhaps only once a month or so. The rest of our time, our minds are active in shal-mora. While in shal-mora we think and contemplate things- many, many things. Our long lives give us more memories than I suspect could even fit into the minds of the Young Races, so we always have something to think about or consider. The shal-mora shuts out minor distractions and worldly concerns, allowing us to focus inward and make the most use of our considerable mental faculties. It is not a complete ignorance of the outside world, however- quite the opposite. Shal-mora has the effect of opening up our consciousness and putting our minds in a state of hyper-awareness, so that thoughts and sensory input flow with increased speed. // Dragonsight gives all dragons the ability to see the patterns of things. From the very earliest times, we understood the importance of Names and patterns and learned how to use them to our advantage. Weaving connections to the True Patterns of other things and beings is an ancient art among my kind. |
| QUOTE (Dunkelzahn: The Mass-Media Dragon) |
| The resort's technology is operated by VisionQuest, the former Ares Macrotechnology VR lab purchased by Dunklezahn in 2037. Today, the continually advancing technology of the VisionQuest hardware is considered state-of-the-art for a direct-feed VR experience. The dragon himself seems fascinated by the concept of virtual reality, its applications and implications. Dragons, he is quoted as saying, have a unique understanding of reality, and anything that claims to create or define reality is of great interest to him. |
sounds a lot like VR submersion and hot-sim.
Indeed, thank you witness I'd forgotten that. Too long since I read dragons.i have it as a print out of the pdf FASA gave out for free years ago.
I suspect that the matrix is not creating a new metaplane but due to the law of similarity it is gaining "magical" features akin to a network that had existed thats form it(the matrix) mirrors.
I suspect that the matrix is not creating a new metaplane but due to the law of similarity it is gaining "magical" features akin to a network that had existed thats form it(the matrix) mirrors.
So it is evolving like the old dragon/magic networks did in their infancy?
One question I do have. Is the new matrix(wireless) a creation of the resonance as it is freer than before or the dissonance as every thing in compartmentalised down to the individual?
| QUOTE (Samaels Ghost @ Aug 12 2006, 01:04 PM) |
| sounds a lot like VR submersion and hot-sim. |
It does, doesn't it!
| QUOTE (Ophis) |
| I suspect that the matrix is not creating a new metaplane but due to the law of similarity it is gaining "magical" features akin to a network that had existed thats form it(the matrix) mirrors. |
That's my guess as well. I like the idea that 'resonance' might be a more apt term than previously assumed.
| QUOTE (Ophis) |
| One question I do have. Is the new matrix(wireless) a creation of the resonance as it is freer than before or the dissonance as every thing in compartmentalised down to the individual? |
Pax definitely seemed to get her vision of the new matrix, and perhaps got some help in creating Jormungand, from the dissonance. But quite what that is, or what that means, is not entirely clear. It's Lochost in my campaign (looking to 'free' the matrix) but I don't suppose that's what the devs had in mind.
Pax doesn't seem the Lochost type, she seemed less about freedom than about everyone having their own personal cell...
This gets me wondering add in the lack of privacy(a level of freedom) allowed by wireless and all the requirement for sunscriptions etc between nodes(more paperwork) maybe what the DISsonance is has been staring us in the face, maybe slavery has realised that freedom sells so has dressed it self up to please the eye and trap the mind. Lets face it everyones responce to the dangers of the new freer matrix is to shut themselves off.
This gets me wondering add in the lack of privacy(a level of freedom) allowed by wireless and all the requirement for sunscriptions etc between nodes(more paperwork) maybe what the DISsonance is has been staring us in the face, maybe slavery has realised that freedom sells so has dressed it self up to please the eye and trap the mind. Lets face it everyones responce to the dangers of the new freer matrix is to shut themselves off.
I assumed that "Resonance" was created by the resonating of the old magical network and the new wireless one. The consciousness represented there is the memories recorded by dragons or the sathalunta or something else. If radiation interacts with the astral plane, then there's a chance that wireless radio does the same. And there is precedent for mana flowing into the physical. That's my take.
Part of me suspects that the resonance has a "personality" purely because humanity expects any mysterious force to do with computers to have a personality. Or hell humanity just likes suscribing personality to that which we find mysterious.
"Religion is just man's way of trying to talk to the weather."
"Religion is just man's way of trying to talk to the weather."
I like that quote
A friend has it on a badge.
| QUOTE (Ophis) |
| Pax doesn't seem the Lochost type, she seemed less about freedom than about everyone having their own personal cell... |
Pax is about as freedom-loving as Mussolini.
I always figured the resonance didn't need to be magical. Essentially we have a very complex system (The matrix) which is so complex it is emerging (the sum is greater than it's parts) and since it's waves you might argue that it's a resonance.
| QUOTE (Bandwidthoracle) |
| I always figured the resonance didn't need to be magical. Essentially we have a very complex system (The matrix) which is so complex it is emerging (the sum is greater than it's parts) and since it's waves you might argue that it's a resonance. |
Resonance isn't something you are, it's something you do with something else.
| QUOTE (Samaels Ghost) |
| I assumed that "Resonance" was created by the resonating of the old magical network and the new wireless one. The consciousness represented there is the memories recorded by dragons or the sathalunta or something else. If radiation interacts with the astral plane, then there's a chance that wireless radio does the same. And there is precedent for mana flowing into the physical. That's my take. |
Yes that's what I meant. If the dragons did have a magical equivalent to the matrix, then they might have created the magical equivalent of programs/SKs/sprites (spirits), and something more powerful and conscious (Passions?) might have spontaneously evolved/emerged just like AIs did in the Matrix.
| QUOTE (SL James @ Aug 13 2006, 10:10 PM) | ||
Pax is about as freedom-loving as Mussolini. |
Just for the record, in my campaign Pax doesn't know she's working for Lochost. She doesn't even know about Lochost. She just had a vision fueled by the dissonance, as per canon.
Who's Lochost? Another passion, i assume?
The Passion of freedom, rebellion and change.
And the (im)mortal enemy of Dis, the Mad Passion of slavery and bureaucracy.
Hang on... did I say Lochost? Oops. I meant 'Localhost' of course. Completely different thing.
Hang on... did I say Lochost? Oops. I meant 'Localhost' of course. Completely different thing.
As an odd random thought...
Winternight(those wacky guys) saw the matrix as the chains of Loki and as his tool. The Otaku were called Loki's children. Loki and Lochost looks like reasonable linguistic drift (actual I suspect it's a little mild for drift given the time). So if Lochost is trapped by the matrix where does that leave us. Particularly with the Dissonance being to my mind a form of Dis.
Actually I hope to get back to dragons and tibet soon... When i have a bit more time I'm going to post my dragons theories.
Winternight(those wacky guys) saw the matrix as the chains of Loki and as his tool. The Otaku were called Loki's children. Loki and Lochost looks like reasonable linguistic drift (actual I suspect it's a little mild for drift given the time). So if Lochost is trapped by the matrix where does that leave us. Particularly with the Dissonance being to my mind a form of Dis.
Actually I hope to get back to dragons and tibet soon... When i have a bit more time I'm going to post my dragons theories.
| QUOTE (Ophis @ Aug 16 2006, 05:15 AM) |
| As an odd random thought... Winternight(those wacky guys) saw the matrix as the chains of Loki and as his tool. The Otaku were called Loki's children. Loki and Lochost looks like reasonable linguistic drift (actual I suspect it's a little mild for drift given the time). So if Lochost is trapped by the matrix where does that leave us. Particularly with the Dissonance being to my mind a form of Dis. Actually I hope to get back to dragons and tibet soon... When i have a bit more time I'm going to post my dragons theories. |
Looking forward to it.
Dissonance = Dis doesn't work for me. The former is about change and chaos, the very antithesis of Dis. Plus the Dissonance brought Deus to its virtual knees, and Deus = Dis is a much better fit IMO.
Loki = Lochost had occurred to me: the personalities don't entirely tally but it's not too far off. The irony of Winternight is that they thought they were fighting Loki and the matrix but really they were being manipulated by the Dissonance (which certainly seems like what they thought of as Loki), which was operating through Pax.
Pax envisioned a new Matrix- she wasn't purely about destroying the old one- and it seems to me that this is what the Dissonance (EDIT: or maybe whatever was pretending to be the Dissonance in order to manipulate Pax) was after as well. So the question is... why?
It's easy in my version of events: Lochost / Loki / the Dissonance wanted to foil Deus and 'free the matrix' from its former constraints (at the same time freeing the AIs from their technological 'prison'). Creating a new Matrix that is more in tune with magic & the old dragon network was the first step in returning the AIs / Passions to their original home- the astral.
Or something like that.
Still, I'd give my right arm to find out the devs' version of events and what they really intended to be behind the Dissonance.
I'm sure they'd prefer your money instead
We couldoffer them money cash on delivary (once we've checked it out) of course.
Handed over by a platoon of Drop Bears. Only to make the transport secure.
Tease
More hints at the connection between Wireless networks and Tibet's involvement.
http://www.sprawledout.com/?p=18
If they do, indeed, know about the Great Mandala's significance to the wireless web, then maybe their current interest in wireless technology reflects a disturbance in the Great Mandala? Suppose the Dissonance is native to the matrix and is now exhibiting influence on the Great Mandala because of the wireless-mana bleed/crossover? That would be incentive to reach out to powerful Technos. To both fight back if the Dissonance proves to be dangerous and understand the connection between the wireless web and the Great Mandala.
If the Dissonance is native to the Astral realm, however...
I don't know. If the Dissonance is native to the astral plane, and if the Tibetan monks have any idea what it is, then putting up wirelss networks in Tibet would be a bad idea, I think. It would increase the bleed between the two networks and possibly the influence of the Resonance entities. The Deep Resonance, the Dissonance, and the Idols would all become more powerful. Maybe that's what Tibet has in mind. Maybe the Idols are influencial Tibetan monks or those who have passed on while trying to unlock the secrets of the Great Mandala. The Idols most likely have SOMETHING to do with the Resonance. I'm really curious as to what they are and how they're involved.
http://www.sprawledout.com/?p=18
If they do, indeed, know about the Great Mandala's significance to the wireless web, then maybe their current interest in wireless technology reflects a disturbance in the Great Mandala? Suppose the Dissonance is native to the matrix and is now exhibiting influence on the Great Mandala because of the wireless-mana bleed/crossover? That would be incentive to reach out to powerful Technos. To both fight back if the Dissonance proves to be dangerous and understand the connection between the wireless web and the Great Mandala.
If the Dissonance is native to the Astral realm, however...
I don't know. If the Dissonance is native to the astral plane, and if the Tibetan monks have any idea what it is, then putting up wirelss networks in Tibet would be a bad idea, I think. It would increase the bleed between the two networks and possibly the influence of the Resonance entities. The Deep Resonance, the Dissonance, and the Idols would all become more powerful. Maybe that's what Tibet has in mind. Maybe the Idols are influencial Tibetan monks or those who have passed on while trying to unlock the secrets of the Great Mandala. The Idols most likely have SOMETHING to do with the Resonance. I'm really curious as to what they are and how they're involved.
I wonder wher if she's there Dvilgaynon is placed in the heirachy of Tibet. I suspect she would be the State Oracle.
Isn't Nyimabumo State Oracle?
Yeah i think so, but (use)names can be be changed to protect the innocent.
| QUOTE (Samaels Ghost @ Sep 6 2006, 04:33 PM) |
| Isn't Nyimabumo State Oracle? |
Yes, she is.
But yeah, it isn't as if dragons haven't changed their names before between appearances.
Also, if you have Shadows of Asia and either Cara Fahd or the revised print of Dragons for Earthdawn, there are definitely clues that go a long way to pointing out where Dvilgaynon might be involved.
Well I know hat I'm doing after my game finished tonight. Would the info in FASA's downloadable Dragons be good enough.
I must get round writing up my ED to SR dragons theories.
I must get round writing up my ED to SR dragons theories.
| QUOTE (Ophis) |
| Would the info in FASA's downloadable Dragons be good enough. |
No, because the downloadable version didn't include the chapter on Dvilgaynon that was added to the later version.
| QUOTE (Demonseed Elite) | ||
No, because the downloadable version didn't include the chapter on Dvilgaynon that was added to the later version. |
Bah.
| QUOTE (Ophis) |
| Well I know hat I'm doing after my game finished tonight. Would the info in FASA's downloadable Dragons be good enough. I must get round writing up my ED to SR dragons theories. |
Even though dragons aren't my favorite, that still sounds interesting. You should post your theories.
I intend to try to put up two more Tibetan sects on my website tonight also. Nothing that directly links to any magical Matrix theories, but they will be new ones that I didn't put in the Shadows of Asia material because of limited wordcount.
I dislike the Maxtrix and Astral mixing. Long ago they stated the old wrym Dunk though the old real possible refugee from the comng horror's was the Matrix.
I never liked Resonnance direction in the story lines.
I never liked Resonnance direction in the story lines.
Keep in mind that officially speaking, there is no Astral/Matrix mixing. But these are theories/ideas I like to chat about on Dumpshock.
It hasn't been said anywhere in canon that Tibet's interests (which may or may not be involved with any sort of "magical Matrix") reflect anything that actually exists. Also, nothing I ever wrote for otaku or the Resonance plotlines ever tied to magic. In fact, the material I wrote about otaku was pretty firmly anti-magical and one of the reasons I felt indifferent about technomancers was because it became harder to definitively say they were non-magical.
But I do like conspiracy-hunting and brainstorming here on DS.
It hasn't been said anywhere in canon that Tibet's interests (which may or may not be involved with any sort of "magical Matrix") reflect anything that actually exists. Also, nothing I ever wrote for otaku or the Resonance plotlines ever tied to magic. In fact, the material I wrote about otaku was pretty firmly anti-magical and one of the reasons I felt indifferent about technomancers was because it became harder to definitively say they were non-magical.
But I do like conspiracy-hunting and brainstorming here on DS.
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