Earth Dawn was another rpg the writers for Shadowrun like to make reference to quite often. For example, many of the Immortal elves and Great Dragons were also in Earth Dawn. Makes me mad because I know very little about the setting and don't really want to go out and buy sourcebooks for a game that is no longer being printed. hence, "grrr..."

At least, that's what I assume "Well, all the information in Shadowrun, that is. devil.gif" means.

Also important, Shadowrun takes place in the Sixth World, while Earth Dawn took place in the Fourth World. They both take place on Earth, just different eras.

Just shows how much I know about that setting, doesn't it. Still don't want to go out and buy books for yet another game. I have enough to buy within Shadowrun as it is.

Disclaimer: I know VERY little about Earthdawn. All my statements about Earthdawn in previous posts and future ones may be completely full of shite. Thank you in advance for your patience

My knowledge of Earthdawn is pretty shaky and dated too (although AH's site has all sorts of interesting crossover information).

I'm pretty curious about this whole Tibet thing. I don't remember any implication in ED that there was any kind of big ancient mystical empire in that direction. Anybody know better?

There's Cathay, the Eastern Empire. And Indrisa.

Right, but did Indrisa include what is now Tibet?

Indrisa does in fact not cover Tibet - it's simply India of today. Cathay is more likely to cover Tibet, but as long no Cathay sourcebook is relased (Redbrick plans it for 2007) all is speculation.

Renraku, Cybertechnology, and AI development in the Awakened World

Renraku, our favorite Megacorporation Badboys, spent a great deal of time developing things secretly be it in Seattle or back home in Japan. Is it that much of a reach that they have Mage survivors from Deus' seige on the Arcology that were banded and droned into his service?

I mean, since they've fallen off the map, it's only safe to assume that they are developing 'something' to help them get back into the Corporate race, isn't it? Divisions of the metaplanes and blurring the lines between technology and magic seems like the next step to me...and if selling secrets to Tibetan monks allows them access to one of the most powerful nodes in the Far East, would you put it past them?

Hmm. Who is in Tibet?

Monks, monks and more monks? Rumours of a dragon? Nyimabumo, the 'State Oracle' who may be a dragon or a free spirit. Dorje Drakden, the 'protector
spirit of the nation' said to possess Nyimabumo (or is Nyimabumo / Dorje Drakden really just a single draconic entity?) Rumours of a floating crystal city (Shambala). Weird astral structure (the Great Mandala).
While outside Tibet we've got the 'Tibetan' technomancer monks of Hong Kong's "Bureau of Heaven", and the 'sublime complex' they're monitoring. (Great little idea btw).

When it comes to the 'who' I'm not exactly having a great 'Ah-Ha' moment. Anybody else?

I don't have a clue, but I didn't have the time to re-read SoA yet.
The old Renraku CEO is there, iirc.

The old Renraku CEO isn't in Tibet anymore. He was escorted out and then later died in Brainscan.

Witness is on the right track, more digging is probably all that is necessary. I do admit it's not something that will necessarily jump right out at you unless you've read certain material. But it's also not something that was crucial information; it's mainly for the folks who like digging up clues.

Was there. He hasn't been in Tibet (or alive) since May 2061.

[edit]effin' DE[/edit]

I have noticed a few quotes that may or may not be relevant.

Hmm.

Hmmm... why didn't the Therans just fly over the mountains with a Kila or even a Behemoth?

*sighs* Is there another Earthdawn sourcebook you could like.. recommend?

I'll give some people time to dig around first.

Fistandfautilus did so already for a long long time

You mean fistandantilus3.0?

Exactly

While those sathalunta sound like they would be capable of making a magical network, it doesn't sound like that was what they intended to accomplish. If their efforts did, in fact, create what is now the Deep Resonance or the magical energy that feeds the Deep Resonance, I wouldn't be surprised. If the magical matrix is indeed an akashic record + an effective source of mana to sustain those memories to the point where they are conscious, I'll be happy.

So long as it wasn't made by a dragon, I'll be happy. I much prefer the stuff metahumans accomplish. I like the stuff we accomplish on accident even better

I differ here. I think I would be a little disappointed if the magical matrix was merely a geographically localized metahuman invention of the fourth age. I prefer the idea that the truth is much deeper and strikes to the core of what magic and mana are, or were.

This is all going from memory, as I haven't had my ED main rulebook for some time, but Earthdawn had a strikingly unusual mechanism for magic, involving 'threads' of mana being woven between objects and individuals, an entity's 'True Name' commanding great power over it, and spells being fashioned into 'spell matrices'.

If I remember correctly, although this may have been an invention of my ED GMs, the reason for all this was that it was a way to shield magic users (i.e. pretty much everybody in ED) from the Horrors, and that mana was deliberately restructured into this arrangement for precisely that purpose. There was also 'raw magic' which bypassed such safeguards and was bad. It is my assumption that Dragons were responsible for creating this 'great pattern' way back in the second age, probably altering living things to be a part of it. Eventually they decided to show the increasingly-powerful metahumans how to use their 'pattern magic' because early metahuman magicians were doing deeply dangerous things with raw magic.

I confess this is all based on distant memories of ED games that I did not myself GM, so if anybody with a better knowledge of canon can contradict me on any point I'd love to hear it. But if I've got the gist of it right then the 'magical matrix' is a lot older and a lot more widespread than you suggest.

Ok, to help you out with some basics about ED spell magic

Not everyone in ED is able to cast spells. That are only the magician discipline, Wizard, Nethermancer, Elementalist and Illusionist. The other disciplines use magic too, but in a different manner.

When casting a spell via raw magic, a caster gets physical damage cause he let the mana flow through his body - that's the way SR casters work.
In ED, however, there are other drawbacks besides getting Drain: the attention of a Horror. Using raw magic is like sending a flare into the astral space and very likely to attracts entities from there to the caster. That's why a caster can get horrormarked after the use of raw magic.

So the ED casters developed spell matrices that store a spell and take off the risk of getting drain and a Horrors attraction. But to press a spell into a matrice requeires to weave threads - the powerful the spell, the more threads.

Hope this helps a bit

Thanks for the refresher Grinder. It wasn't only spellcasters that dealt with threads, right? Didn't other disciplines use threads to bind magical artifacts etc (I even have vague memories of threads being used to connect the powers of individuals)?

Do you have any memory about where 'thread magic / pattern magic' was supposed to have come from? As in who invented it and when?

Does my theory sound like it could have any merit to somebody better acquainted with ED magic?

I think I recall there being something else in the Theran Empire book that would be significant here. I may be wrong on which book it is in, though, I'll have to look through my copy when I get home.

Cool.

Found it. It was right near another section you quoted from The Theran Empire:

Also, given how this thread brought up Tibet and the Matrix, I had to post these links to a very interesting online story collection about Tibetans' use of technology.

Sounds like a prime motivation for carrying so much ED into SR. Also sounds like the aforementioned Akashic record theory.

This isn't really related to magical networks, but is worth possibly noting in relation to Tibet. The Pathalans were a collection of fierce ork and troll tribes in Earthdawn living in the southernmost Mayana Mountains (now the Himalayas).

What exactly is a Passion?

Passions are essentially what the people in the Fourth World called their gods.

AH! I don't like 'em already. Too many bad D&D plots...

Then you probably don't want to know what a Mad Passion is.

Probably not

Thanks DE. Yeah I read those; I guess I didn't see a strong connection to the magical network idea, but I suppose 'omathani' could be the same thing.

So going back to the 'who is in Tibet' question you posed- have we answered that now? Is Uruliun connected to Nyimabumo / Dorje Drakden? Is it really a dragon? A powerful free spirit? A Passion? Or something else?

I know Passions were pretty much worshipped as gods, but they were rather more 'hands-on' than that implies. They'd be seen walking the earth and they'd quite frequently appear to people and give guidance or instructions. In some ways they were like powerful spirits or totems, but they seemed to have more distinct personalities and agendas than totems do, and considerably more power. I vaguely remember the implication that Passions had emerged out of metahuman knowledge and consciousness.

I remember passions as embodiments of certain emotions/ideals. I always felt that the manifestation od passions was really just a particular part of the reciever of the vision appearing before them. ie you see Raggok, thats your inner rage talking. For mass visions I suppose we have to use Jungian ideas of a collective unconsciousness.

In a fantasy world where minds are linked together by the flow of mana, collective unconsciousness really means something.

Dvilgaynon?(sp?)

Is that a theory or a guess? In other words, got anything to back that up?