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blakkie
QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Nov 28 2006, 09:37 PM)
SR4.

See? Controversial cyber.gif

~J

It is also why I've come to see the fears of the video game "damaging" the SR RPG as the hangwringing of a pack of fuddy-duddies. If the worst that could happen is anywhere in the neighbourhood of SR4 then I'd rest well at night....which I do. smile.gif
PlatonicPimp
The problem with roping people in with a game that doesn't accurately depict the setting is that those new people will want to play the video game in tabletop, and get upset when they find the setting doesn't work that way. If the Video game lets you resurect people or teleport, and then the RPG doesn't, they'll lose interest because what they wanted was more video game. I do want there to be a good SR video game. I think the old sega one did a passable job. But a bad video game will hurt the RPG more than Help it.

Frankly, I think a good SR game would be a urban sandbox similar to grand theft Auto or saints row.
blakkie
QUOTE (PlatonicPimp @ Nov 29 2006, 09:28 AM)
The problem with roping people in with a game that doesn't accurately depict the setting is that those new people will want to play the video game in tabletop, and get upset when they find the setting doesn't work that way. If the Video game lets you resurect people or teleport, and then the RPG doesn't, they'll lose interest because what they wanted was more video game.

That just means a somewhat more neutral effect. Assuming the people even care about those details. Sure people here do care, but there are a large number of players out there don't even know (or really care) about there being no "teleport" in SR. And Resurrection is only an issue when your character 'dies', which happens far less frequently than the video game.
QUOTE
But a bad video game will hurt the RPG more than Help  it.

That's why I'm curious with what comes out of the beta. From a distance it looks like not to bad a video game, if not a potentially good video game.
QUOTE
Frankly, I think a good SR game would be a urban sandbox similar to grand theft Auto or saints row.

But since nobody is going to sign off on a 30-40 million dollar budget for an unproven video game franchise, with a quirky setting like Shadowrun to boot, we get back to Adam's comments. *shrug*
lorechaser
QUOTE (SL James)
QUOTE (lorechaser @ Nov 28 2006, 08:20 PM)
Turning away potential gamers because they might want something that the designers might someday put in SR5 is pretty counterproductive, and possibly will ensure there won't be an SR5....

Oh, God. Don't be so melodramatic. Tell you what. If SR's dead in 2012 (that is, no one is producing material for the license), I'll Paypal you a dollar.

RPGs are always dying. They've been dying for the last, what, 10, 20 years? Basing your hopes on people who may not want or care for the intellectual demands of running SR as a RPG (as opposed to this piece of crap) is a sucker's bet.

I didn't accuse anyone of bringing about the demise of a franchise or anything of the sort.

I simply said that dissuading potential gamers is bad for the game. RPGs need a constant influx of people. We've had that so far, and we just need to be sure that it keeps going. I'm doing my part by bringing up my daughter as a geek. wink.gif

I would argue that the FanPro of today is somewhat weaker than the FASA of SR1 and 2 days, though.

I'm also a bit annoyed by the general tone that a person that plays a video game is inherently inferior to someone that plays an RPG. The suggestion is that someone that comes to SR because they enjoy the videogame is going to be unble "to meet the intellectual demands of running SR as a RPG" (by the by, have you met the majority of the SR GM's?) because they came from video games....

I know you're old and curmudgeonly - so am I. I've watched several generations of gamers come and go, and I've seen them change. I don't think RPGs are going to die out by any means. But I also think people who exclude gamers because they aren't "the right kind" of gamers are doing a disservice to gaming. And I daresay that at least some of the people that exclude people from gaming are the same people that were pissed off in high school because people excluded them from things because they were gamers (Note - this is a broader comment not directed at SL, or even really anyone here, just a general musing. wink.gif )

It's also a spillover of my annoyance at society as a whole that treats video games as inferior pieces or work - "Why play a video game when you could read a book?" "Video games? No, they can't have redeeming value. They're games!"

Also, Dumpshock seems to exude an aura that stimulates my argument nerves. So.... wink.gif
nezumi
As a GM, I'm just of the opinion that the more potential players I have available, the better. If I need to sort through more chaff to get more wheat, that's an acceptable price, as long as there's more wheat there to find.

As loathe as I am to agree with blakkie, it won't be significantly "worse" than SR4. A bunch of new people come in who don't know what they're talking about. If they're stupid, we ignore them and they go away. If Fan Pro is stupid and caters to them, we already have SR2/3/3R and we already have our established players. It's a sad loss, but not especially expensive. On the other hand, along with the n00bs, we'll get some intelligent players interested as well who we may be able to win over to our cause.

I mean really, who cares at this point? SR4 isn't what most of us oldbies wanted. Fan Pro is going their own way. Let them gather who they will. Just remember it's easier to convert a heretic than a heathen nyahnyah.gif
Adam
QUOTE (lorechaser @ Nov 29 2006, 01:05 PM)
I would argue that the FanPro of today is somewhat weaker than the FASA of SR1 and 2 days, though.

The game industry has changed so much in the 15+ years since the early days of SR, comparing companies between the eras really doesn't mean much. Name any game company -- with the exception of Wizards of the Coast and perhaps White Wolf -- and their market share in 2006 is probably smaller than it was in 1992, and the market itself is probably smaller too. There have been a lot of changes -- the d20 boom and bust cycle, the 3-tier distribution system becoming less reliable for many publishers, many retail stores closing, online shopping becoming more common, ebooks becoming more common ... the game industry is just way different than it used to be, even if the games aren't that much different.
lorechaser
Very true. But coming off the accusation of crying that the Sky is Falling for rpgs, I wanted to let someone else make that summary. wink.gif
Ryu
The sky is falling! There will be rain after sunshine! The glas ain´t full, its 10% empty!


From what I´ve read, the game will likely be great. It will just not be a shadowrun game. At all. Now lets school some newbies in the only RAW way to play the game.
lorechaser
Every dark cloud has a silver lining, but lightning kills hundreds of people each year who are trying to find it.

http://www.demotivators.com/pes24x30prin.html
Cleremond
I'm torn on the subject simply because I enjoy the occaisional shooter....but I think in my heart I'd really like to see the game fail. Not that I want those who spent countless hours working on it fail and be out of a job, but the lead designer needs a boot to the head. His calouse disregard for the rich Shadowrun canon is appalling.

In my mind, MS's Shadowrun game in its current conception, would fare much better if it focused on an aspect of the Shadowrun canon that is more conducive to the squad based first person shooter gaming experience.

Either Urban Brawl or Combat Biking. These aspects of the Shadowrun universe are pretty wide open for some developer interpretation. A game that focused on these things as the core componet for the game I think wouldn't piss off fans of the RPG so much. They could call it "Shadowrun: Urban Brawl League" or "Shadowrun: Combat Biker".

But this?....re-writing the canon? Resurrection? Teleportation? Races that do shit they aren't supposed to (magic eating dwarves? WTF??)? No Orks? No Matrix? No Mr. Johnsons? No Missions? No Fixers? Everyone is a mage? Zigguratts? No Story? No Characters?

Sorry, but, even though it might be a fun shooter, IMHO, its not Shadowrun and basically its a smack in the face to all those of us who grew up with the RPG and novels.

Honestly, I'd like to see the liscence rott until someone is going to do it right. Think Deus Ex or Vampire Bloodlines in terms of execution. Shadowrun is an RPG. Video Games based on the Shadowrun liscense should be......yep....you guessed it.....RPG'S! Anything else and yer "Dee Dee Dee!" How many NON-RPG games for PC do you see out there based on the Dungeon's and Dragons Liscense? I rest my case.
Tanegar
QUOTE (nezumi)
SR4 isn't what most of us oldbies wanted.

What don't you like about SR4? Bear in mind that I'm only familiar with SR2, and the only post-FASA sourcebook I have is Man & Machine for SR3. I didn't know there was any controversy over SR4.
Fortune
If I'm not mistaken, M&M was actually a FASA release.
ronin3338
Forgive me if I re-state some things, as I don't have time right now to read all the posts...

While this game would increase interest in Shadowrun if it did well, it would create an unrealistic and flawed view of the game, and I think that players who came from the videogame to the RPG, would be very disappointed and it would hurt the license overall.
Adam
All of the SR3 rulebooks were FASA releases, although FanPro later reprinted most of them [and did a fair amount of work touching up Rigger 3 and turning it into Rigger 3 Revised...]
lorechaser
QUOTE (Cleremond)
How many NON-RPG games for PC do you see out there based on the Dungeon's and Dragons Liscense? I rest my case.

Heroes of the Lance (Side Scroller)
Dragons of Flame (Side Scroller)
War of the Lance (RTS)
Dragonflight (Flight Sim?)
Fantasy Empires (Empire Builder)
Stronghold (??)
Tower of Doom (Arcade)
Al-Qadim: The Genie's Curse (Side Scroller)
Deathkeep (A DnD FPS)
Shadows over Mystara (Arcade)
Blood & Magic (RTS)
Iron & Blood (Fighter)
Dragon Dice (Um)
Birthright: Gorgon's Alliance (Half RPG, Half RTS/Strategy)
Dragonshard (RTS)
Forgotten Realms: Demon Stone (Actiony RPG)

Semi-RPG:
Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance (RPGish Isometric)
DnD: Heroes (RPGish Isometric)
Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance II (RPGish Isometric)


And if you don't count FPS type RPGs,
Eye of the Beholder
Eye of the Beholder 2
Dungeon Hack
Ravenloft
Ravenloft II
Mezobonroiudsan (The Dark Elf place)
Descent to Undermountain


Unless that was a theoretical question....
Fortune
Shit! I was only going to mention Dungeon Hack! biggrin.gif
mfb
QUOTE (lorechaser)
QUOTE (Cleremond @ Dec 1 2006, 03:35 PM)
How many NON-RPG games for PC do you see out there based on the Dungeon's and Dragons Liscense?  I rest my case.

Heroes of the Lance (Side Scroller)
Dragons of Flame (Side Scroller)
War of the Lance (RTS)
Dragonflight (Flight Sim?)
Fantasy Empires (Empire Builder)
Stronghold (??)
Tower of Doom (Arcade)
Al-Qadim: The Genie's Curse (Side Scroller)
Deathkeep (A DnD FPS)
Shadows over Mystara (Arcade)
Blood & Magic (RTS)
Iron & Blood (Fighter)
Dragon Dice (Um)
Birthright: Gorgon's Alliance (Half RPG, Half RTS/Strategy)
Dragonshard (RTS)
Forgotten Realms: Demon Stone (Actiony RPG)

Semi-RPG:
Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance (RPGish Isometric)
DnD: Heroes (RPGish Isometric)
Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance II (RPGish Isometric)


And if you don't count FPS type RPGs,
Eye of the Beholder
Eye of the Beholder 2
Dungeon Hack
Ravenloft
Ravenloft II
Mezobonroiudsan (The Dark Elf place)
Descent to Undermountain


Unless that was a theoretical question....

pwnd.
Cleremond
QUOTE (lorechaser)
QUOTE (Cleremond @ Dec 1 2006, 03:35 PM)
How many NON-RPG games for PC do you see out there based on the Dungeon's and Dragons Liscense?  I rest my case.

Heroes of the Lance (Side Scroller)
Dragons of Flame (Side Scroller)
War of the Lance (RTS)
Dragonflight (Flight Sim?)
Fantasy Empires (Empire Builder)
Stronghold (??)
Tower of Doom (Arcade)
Al-Qadim: The Genie's Curse (Side Scroller)
Deathkeep (A DnD FPS)
Shadows over Mystara (Arcade)
Blood & Magic (RTS)
Iron & Blood (Fighter)
Dragon Dice (Um)
Birthright: Gorgon's Alliance (Half RPG, Half RTS/Strategy)
Dragonshard (RTS)
Forgotten Realms: Demon Stone (Actiony RPG)

Semi-RPG:
Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance (RPGish Isometric)
DnD: Heroes (RPGish Isometric)
Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance II (RPGish Isometric)


And if you don't count FPS type RPGs,
Eye of the Beholder
Eye of the Beholder 2
Dungeon Hack
Ravenloft
Ravenloft II
Mezobonroiudsan (The Dark Elf place)
Descent to Undermountain


Unless that was a theoretical question....

Oh....yer good.

Hehe....

Gameplay style aside....now go back through those games you listed and cross out any game that has characters that have to traverse a storyline, "Level Up" and get more powerful as the game progresses. Your list will narrow substantially.

The only ones I'll give you credit for are:

Heroes of the Lance (Side Scroller) - Never seen this one
Dragons of Flame (Side Scroller) - Never seen this one either
War of the Lance (Strategy) - Old SSI game, right?
Dragonflight (Flight Sim?) - Another SSI game. Man, this one sucked.
Fantasy Empires (Empire Builder) - Don't remember this one either.
Stronghold (Empire sim) - This was a pretty interesting game when it came out.
Deathkeep (A DnD FPS) - Don't remember this one, sure yer not getting this confused with Stonekeep? Stonekeep was not a D&D liscensed game but was still very much an RPG.
Blood & Magic (RTS) - Not familiar with this one either. Did SSI put this one out?
Iron & Blood (Fighter) - Not familiar with this one either. Did SSI put this one out?
Dragon Dice (Um) - Remember hearing about this one, but never played it so i can't comment
Birthright: Gorgon's Alliance (Half RPG, Half RTS/Strategy) - half RPG? There ya go....no credit? Hmmm.......

I'd like to point out, if I'm not mistaken, that the most recent of these games was "Dragon Dice" and it was released in 1997.....so were talkin' like 9 years ago.

The jury is kinda out still on if I give you credit for these or not:

Tower of Doom (Arcade) - Strong RPG elements, your characters leveled and bought equipment and the game had an entertaining storyline.
Shadows over Mystara (Arcade) - Strong RPG elements, your characters leveled and bought equipment and the game had an entertaining storyline.
Dragonshard (RTS) - RTS gameplay yes, but also had dungeon crawling quests, a strong storyline, and character leveling
Forgotten Realms: Demon Stone (Actiony RPG) - Many RPG elements, good storyline, character leveling, buying equipment, etc.

You get absolutely no credit for these clearly RPG games. I've played all of them before and they all are RPG, either in the spirit of the PnP game or in actual gameplay mechanics:

Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance (RPGish Isometric) - Technically shouldn't be listed since its for consoles
DnD: Heroes (RPGish Isometric) - Technically shouldn't be listed since its for consoles
Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance II (RPGish Isometric) - Technically shouldn't be listed since its for consoles
Eye of the Beholder
Eye of the Beholder 2
Don't forget Eye of the Beholder 3 - Yes it really sucked.
Dungeon Hack
Ravenloft
Ravenloft II
Mezobonroiudsan (The Dark Elf place) - Its spelled Menzoberranzan
Descent to Undermountain - This game blew chunks but was still an RPG.

You went a LONG way back in PC gaming history for the sole purpose of trying to prove someone wrong on a forum. I'm impressed you'd put forth that kind of effort.

My point was, D&D = RPG. The most successful PC games of the liscense were those that clearly attempted to capture the spirit, if not the actual gameplay mechanics of the PnP game.

The Shadowrun game by MS clearly spits in the face of the PnP and novel canon with its gameplay and its justifications for its gameplay.

I stand by my guns.....

IMHO, the game should fail and the liscense should rot until someone can finally do it justice.
mfb
i don't mind that it's an FPS. as Kage said, FPS and RPG are not mutually exclusive. i'd call Shadows over Mystara an RPG, because you gained levels and new items as you went along. i'd call Castlevania: Symphony of the Night an RPG for the same reason. classic third-person run-around-the-map gameplay does not make an RPG.
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (Tanegar @ Dec 1 2006, 03:50 PM)
I didn't know there was any controversy over SR4.

Now you know. And knowing is half the battle.

QUOTE
What don't you like about SR4?

The list is huge; you should probably dig back for some of the topics. A few things from my list include a lack of mathematical rigor (some things have seriously nonintuitive consequences, and I'd go so far as to call some of them wrong—see the weird way glitch chance jumps around and the performance of EX-EX vs. AP against armor), the existence of non-critical glitches, the massive changes to the world (which, IMO, dramatically reduce verisimilitude, making the world a lot less interesting—I'm not dissatisfied with the existence of changes, I just think they made a lot of specifically bad changes), things like that.

~J
nezumi
QUOTE (Tanegar)
QUOTE (nezumi @ Nov 29 2006, 01:38 PM)
SR4 isn't what most of us oldbies wanted.

What don't you like about SR4? Bear in mind that I'm only familiar with SR2, and the only post-FASA sourcebook I have is Man & Machine for SR3. I didn't know there was any controversy over SR4.

I seem to recollect there was a moratorium put on complaining about SR4. However yes, there was quite an upcry about it. The basic complaints came down to it "dumbing down the system" and the new dice mechanic doesn't allow for as much granularity.

Feel free to search on the details of the debate if you'd like, there's a TON of stuff already written. Speaking for myself, I'm going to grab some of the changes that SR4 brought out with (decrease cyber prices and possibly introducing AR, although in a more limited version), but stick with the SR3 mechanics.
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (nezumi)
I seem to recollect there was a moratorium put on complaining about SR4.

Such a ban is, IIRC, posted in the SR4 forum. It does not appear to be general in scope, as it is there and nowhere else.

~J
Fresno Bob
I want it to do well because the people who worked on it probably have families to feed too.
Adam
QUOTE (nezumi)
QUOTE
I seem to recollect there was a moratorium put on complaining about SR4.

No, absolutely not true. What is heavily discouraged is hijacking what could be productive threads with "SR4 sucks!" sentiments without offering productive content towards helping the original poster.

"Play SR3, SR4 blows!" is not productive.

"Maybe you could look into converting some of the rules from SomeThirdEditionBook to your game -- you'll need to watch for X and Y, as they're different between editions." can be produtive.
eidolon
Voorhees, damn you, stop injecting humanity into my complaining. smile.gif

Seriously though, that's the best damn reason I've ever seen anyone give for wanting it to do well.
mfb
the most recent thead that delves into discussion about why SR4 blows sucks bites is less than satisfactory to some players is pretty sedate. it doesn't get into some of the really detailed stuff, but it is, so far, a decent overview of some of the complaints levelled against the system.
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (Voorhees)
I want it to do well because the people who worked on it probably have families to feed too.

Most of them are salaried, you know. We're not talking a tiny developer waiting for someone to buy a copy so they can eat dinner.

~J
Adam
*holds stomach*
mfb
oh, come on, Adam. we all know SR4 was only put out so that you could get a new Porsche!

edit: i mean $R4!
Kagetenshi
I may be misinterpreting Adam's reaction, but I meant the developers working under Microsoft Game Studios and FASA Interactive.

~J
eidolon
You might be. He's implying that he's a starving employee of a tiny developer waiting for someone to buy a copy so he can eat dinner.

Good times. biggrin.gif
mintcar
I've heard good things about it from people who like the genre and cares little about Shadowrun. If it's a good game it will generate positive asociations for the roleplaying game. I hope it does well. I hope it's the biggest success ever for Fasa Studios and they get to make a ton of follow-up games. They don't seem to have the expertice to make rpg's, but perhaps they can hire people who have for such a project if it ever comes to pass. I don't have high hopes for it, but I see no reason to wish this game to fail. I've gotten past my initial disgust and now I'm just oblivious myself, but I acknowledge that some will like it and that's fine by me.
lorechaser
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
QUOTE (Voorhees @ Dec 1 2006, 05:54 PM)
I want it to do well because the people who worked on it probably have families to feed too.

Most of them are salaried, you know. We're not talking a tiny developer waiting for someone to buy a copy so they can eat dinner.

~J

But those salaries dry up quickly when your game fails, and they cut your team.... The video game industry is pretty cutthroat - I've known plenty of folks that got their walking papers after a bad game or two.

That being said, if you base your purchasing decisions on "Will someone suffer if I don't buy it" you're going to go mad. wink.gif Everything is made by someone. And if you try to buy things based on who's the poorest, you might start getting some low quality stuff. wink.gif

It's capitalism (at least here in the states) - you make a bad product, you suffer the consequences. Sometimes, it's not your fault, and that sucks, but....

Course, I still want it to do well. Esp. since the devs seem to clearly love the SR universe, and think they're doing something good.
Kagetenshi
You've pretty much summed it up. For anyone who still disagrees, consider this: Byron Hall (the maker of F.A.T.A.L.) may well also have a family to feed.

~J
Fortune
Well he ain't doing a good job and they're gonna starve, 'cause I can't find his damn book anywhere.
Kagetenshi
IIRC it's now only being sold as an e-book.

~J
Fortune
Can't find that either.
jervinator
I am seriously mixed. On the one hand, it has the SR name and thuss the RPG will benefit as a result... if the game does well.

On the other hand, it is SO far removed from SR that the name is about the only thing that's the same. Wrong decade, different world, changing an RPG to an FPS... so many areas that I kind of want it to fail for straying too far away from canon. Unfortunately, this might reflect poorly on the RPG.

Who here thinks that MechWarrior 4 hurt BattleTech? I mean, it's not like MS has been great at using FASA licenses...
Adam
Can't make FPS games out of an RPG? Man, next you'll be telling people that they can't make novels out of them! How about miniature games based on RPGs? Are they still allowed? wink.gif
emo samurai
The problem is that it doesn't use the world as a whole. It's Far Cry with magic. Tropical setting, teleporting people, yeah. If it didn't have the SR name, it would be called "That magic FPS with cyberware." It doesn't have intercorporate warfare, it doesn't have urban settings, and the people fucking teleport. The magic in SR is supposed to be very limited yet powerful; it's not supposed to cause big paradigm shifts. And the main characters are supposed to be shadowrunners because that's the name of the game.
fistandantilus4.0
QUOTE (Adam)
Are they still allowed? wink.gif

No, stop talking crazy! It'll never happen! wobble.gif
jervinator
FPSs are not a bad spin-off for an established line, but I think that they tend to lack a little something as far as plot development goes, at least compared to an RPG or strategy game.
SL James
QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Dec 2 2006, 10:58 AM)
You've pretty much summed it up. For anyone who still disagrees, consider this: Byron Hall (the maker of F.A.T.A.L.) may well also have a family to feed.

~J

He can't just roll to see if he eats them?

Edit: Or rapes them, uses the for a toilet, or fumbles and turns into some racist caricature?
Taran
QUOTE (Fortune)
Can't find that either.

So God has your back. Nifty.

I want it to fail. If Microsoft doesn't see SR as a valuable videogame property, they're less likely to go after any fangames that may spring up in this travesty's wake. I'd feel differently if I thought that the FPS community had a reservoir of potential roleplayers to bring into the fold, but I doubt it. Take the guys from where I work - smart, creative, capable, FPS gamers all, but they sneer at the bloody Star Wars RPG. There's no chance that Shadowrun is going to tip them over.
Shrike30
I had absolutely zero exposure to Warhammer 40k until the video game Dawn of War came out. The game was decent (although the single-player campaign was kind of bare-bones), it introduced me to a pretty interesting universe, and it got me into playing the tabletop game.

Well, specifically, the Veteran Sargeant and the Dreadnought in the opening cinematic sold me on trying the tabletop game, and that try got me playing. But that's just me nyahnyah.gif

Dawn of War isn't a pure adaptation of WH40k by any means. Hell, you can build structures, gather resources, and reinforce squads in the field... hardly the tabletop game in that sense. It did, however, manage to convey some of the cool aspects of the game fluff, get the general point across, and (most importantly) get me interested in checking out the tabletop game.

I fired up my evil industry-killing pirate tools, and checked out a PDF of the 40k rulebook. I saw how the game's phases (movement, shooting, assault) and things like hero units worked, and drew the connections for how they managed to be implemented into the RTS. I went into one of the GW stores and tried out a really small-scale game. That was a year and a half ago, and I'm still buying their (too expensive) stuff. nyahnyah.gif

My point is this: the Shadowrun FPS doesn't have to be a perfect representation of Shadowrun to get people checking out PnP Shadowrun. If it's a decent game in it's own right that maintains at least some of the flavor of PnP SR, you'll get people who are interested enough to go looking for PnP SR.

If there's enough resources out there (a good main site, links to fansites/resources like Dumpshock, some free basic rules and runs intended to get players interested in actually going out, grabbing the full BBB, and giving the game a shot), then SR PnP will get a huge boost out of the FPS, despite the fact that it's not a perfect duplicate. An incredibly basic writeup on dwarves might include something along the lines of "+1 Willpower: dwarves tend to be more resistant to stun damage and some magical effects." Someone coming over from the video game would say "Oh, okay, that's where that immunity thing in the videogame came from" and move on to check out the next bit of rules.

If they liked the FPS, and the resources that they can find when they go looking for the PnP are inviting, interesting, and expand on their seed of knowledge of the SR world that they've gotten from the FPS, then we should see a good boost in playerbase. Free advertising in the form of a videogame never hurts, and free advertising in the form of a successful videogame franchise is ideal. Hoping that the game fails just because it's a deviation from canon is shortsighted and self-centered. There's a synergistic potential between the FPS and the PnP, and we should try to take advantage of it.
nezumi
Related to Shrike's point, any idea if there'll be a Quick Start Guide for SR4? I know that book was awesome for getting people into SR3, and making it available for free was a very smart move IMO. If I were Fan Pro, I'd try to push that out before any of the splat books (and I'm sure there are plenty of people here who would be happy to help!)
bishop186
You raise a good point Shrike, though I'd have to disagree with the statement that "free advertising from a videogame never hurts." I mean, what if the game tanks and just isn't fun/involving/etc. When people see SR PnP they'll think "Oh, that game sucked." and pass over it.

Agreeing with nezumi, here, the Quick Start guide was very helpful. The first Shadowrun game I ever played I used the Quick Start guide and a lot of help from the GM. I hope they do put out something like that for SR4 if they haven't already.
2bit
QUOTE (emo samurai)
The problem is that it doesn't use the world as a whole. It's Far Cry with magic. <snip> It doesn't have intercorporate warfare, it doesn't have urban settings, and the people fucking teleport. <snip>

Just to correct, only one map of four that I know about so far is non-urban. One is set in the city slums, one is at a power station, one is in the corporate HQ, and the last one is in the ruins of a ziggaurat.
Adam
QUOTE (nezumi)
Related to Shrike's point, any idea if there'll be a Quick Start Guide for SR4? I know that book was awesome for getting people into SR3, and making it available for free was a very smart move IMO. If I were Fan Pro, I'd try to push that out before any of the splat books (and I'm sure there are plenty of people here who would be happy to help!)

Quick Start Rules are well underway. Plans for how they will be distributed beyond a free PDF are not yet finalized.
Shrike30
Adam: my one suggestion with regards to the Quick-Start rules (and hey, I'm just some guy on the Internet) is that they be available by the time that the FPS ships, and that they be incredibly easy to find. Google searches for "Shadowrun" should, hopefully, turn them up in the first few hits. I'd also give the SR RPG website a bit of a polish (hopefully before the FPS ships) as - and I say this with no insult intended, simply an observation - it currently looks like some Half-Life modification's website. It doesn't need a complete overhaul, or a super-l33t flash animation, or anything... but at the moment it's got some oddball formatting errors, and I'd personally pass on listing the print and ebooks in the current fashion (as, at first glance, it looks like an accidental double-listing rather than two seperate categories). Maybe go with something along the lines of a "latest releases" with links to the print and ebook versions on the page you're taken to when you click on the image of the book?

I've got a screenshot of the formatting problems I see if you'd like to see it, but you could probably see them yourself if you set an IE window to be somewhere under 800 pixels across.
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