Yes, but in all cases your still using -your eyes-.

Arguably you could apply that -3 to snipers using a scope for the same reason. Also keep in mind this -3 in this instance isnt for tests to actualy fire at the target, rather, instead to percieve things beyond what your looking at, at that exat moment.

The thing is it isnt established by cannon one way or another what exactly your seeing when your looking through the gun using the smartlink itself. Some of us (Myself included) tend to see it exactly like using a scope.

It's a whole other story when you dont eevn have to look down the sights of the gun anymore because of that crosshair overlay. But thats NOT what you have when your using the guncam. Instead your vision IS the overlay. And ONLY the overlay effectively.

Because what's being talked about in this instance isnt just firing from around a corner where your still at least poking your head out. It's sticking the gun and ONLY the gun around the corner, and using the guncam that IS the smartlink ONLY to look around find your targets and shoot at them.

Your eyes dont play into it at all in this instance. Their simply at that point, effectively viewing a TV screen which is showing what the gun is currently pointing at (Along with assumably a crosshair and the usual data you get from a smartlink)

We also arnt saying you -have- to use that sort of guide. I mean the whole point of this thread was to discuss and come up with rules surrounding it because for some people it had become an issue. They were using only the -1 penalty for people firing from COMPLETE COVER. Not partial, not mostly cover. TOTAL cover.

To the point where gunbattles were suddenly just people shooting at each tohers guns. Because unless you've got something that can punch through the wall thats all you can do. That or start tossing grenades around corners. It's also felt by many of us to be totally unrealistic to expect it to be just as easy to fire a gun from total cover, using only a small camera attached to the gun to do all your looking for you. Not to mention the issues with keeping a proper grip, handlign the recoil in a totaly unnatural firing position etc.

And another resurrected thread. Sure do have a lot of those this week.

Of course, if this is a problem for you as a GM, you can always "fix" things to prevent abuse of the shooting around corners tactic.

Example: Megacorp security notices a lot of 'runners are shooting around corners and comes up with countermeasures against it, while warning their guards not to do it themselves. Setting up taser shock plates in walls at about a foot from the corners, having floor pressure switches near corners, microexplosive "land mines" implanted into walls at shoulder height, etc... Yes, I know "shoulder height" can vary wildly between troll, human, and dwarf, but you get the idea.

Not that I would ever condone a GM doing something like this, oh my no.

i'll simply note here again that of those who think firing around corners should be easy, none of 'em so far have any real experience with firearms.

I think the problem is that none of us have experience firing around corners while using an LCD monocle for targeting. However, the fact that there are multi-billion-dollar prototype weapons systems based around this concept suggests that it is viable.

That's why I thought I'd ask people who have trained with the weapons what they think about them.

You realize that the question as you posed it, of "5/8" and "7/8" chance of "consecutively hitting" a "target", is impossible to answer in real life terms without going much further into the specifics of a particular situation where the system is used, by whom, against what, etc. No generic answer, as you seem to be looking for, can be given. (Even though I obviously believe that if people trained for the FELIN system knew what the hell we were talking about, they'd trend towards "it's a lot more difficult".)

Of course the answer you'll get, if any, will probably be a curt request to visit a site like this, or perhaps they'll even reply with an attached brief advertisement pdf.

i certainly agree that it is viable. i just disagree that it's anywhere near as easy as firing from a normal position.

the advantage of using a guncam is that you can fire fairly accurately from behind almost total cover. note i said "fairly accurately". that means that you can, without too much trouble, spend a little bit of time positioning yourself and aiming in order to achieve accurate fire.

which means a penalty. this penalty can be overcome by taking aim actions. that makes sense. what doesn't make sense is the idea of someone being able to quickdraw and slap his gun around a corner and expect to be able to fire as accurately as someone who quickdraws and fires at a target in front of him.

i'm not, at this point, arguing the ability of someone using a guncam to fire accurately around corners. what i'm arguing is their ability to do it as quickly as someone firing a gun normally.

Well, in this situation at least, that 'average' Dice Pool would have a +2 modification from the Smartlink.

it's not about switching perception, it's about how shooting works. i would demand a penalty regardless of whether or not the shooter is already perceiving through his guncam. if someone wanted to just slap their gun around a corner with the guncam on and fire wildly, i see no reason for that action to be disallowed. i just don't think it should be as accurate as whipping out your gun and firing wildly at a target right in front of you.

anyway. that is my opinion, and is at this point the opinion of everyone in the thread who's familiar with firearms. i don't know what else could be said that would convince anyone who isn't already convinced.

Anyone who's expecting that he might need to use his gun should already have it out and he should have it pointed wherever he's looking. You're not quickdrawing it, whipping it around a corner, finding a guy, aiming, shooting.

Get used to pointing the gun wherever you're looking and pulling the trigger if there's a guy there. You don't even have to think about where the gun is pointing, as it's always pointing wherever you're looking.

As to Felin, I'll be writing a longer letter since I'll have to mail it. A USPS airmail letter to France with a certificate of mailing is only $1.79, with a delivery time of four to seven days. I'm figuring anywhere from a few days to get there, a few days for a reply, a few days back to a week there, a week to write a reply and a week back, for somewhere from two to three weeks total.