*laugh* -- you'd have an interesting time with me, then.

I recognise that individual anecdotes don't give the whole picture: but very very consistently, whenever I write under a gender-neutral username, people invariably firmly believe I'm male -- and that to the point of arguing it to newcomers who think to ask.

Maybe because on the boards (as in face-to-face life), I'm not "nice".

That and the fact that there are no females on the internet. Instead, they're all obese 60 year old men with Santa beards in their underwear typing from a dark room pretending to be female.

Nouns. ã‚?ã?Ÿã?— means "I", "myself", or "private affairs", and can take modifiers the same way any other noun would. ã?¼ã?? likewise means "I", "you" in some cases, and "manservant". You'll notice this with many of the pronoun-like Japanese words, really—a lot of them have another meaning, using the same kanji, that is obviously a noun. ã‚?ã‚Œ is sort of an exception (it means oneself, but can also mean ego) but is considered pretty rude, go figure and can still take modifications like a noun.

Makes me think of some bad jokes along the lines of 大ã??ã?„ã‚?ã‚Œ

I'm trying to come up with a good example of a modifier that is perfectly usable in Japanese but nonsensical in English, but finding one that I can translate (despite the fact that a literal translation has to be nonsensical) is difficult.

~J, tempted to ask the mods to rename him 蔭天使 just so no one will ever type his username again

...now I know I've been down this trail before...

'C'mon Smeg...Git Up! gotta make it back to the ranch by sundown...

Screw the anti-hero bullshit go the Greek way.Hero is someone who does great and awesome things. You know slaying dragon, killing whole villages. saving maidens, to eating the hearts of fairies.. Things that most people could not dream of doing. Yes, that makes people Nero, a hero.

Oh yes: and blood magic needs to be absolutely acceptable. Remember Agamemnon's daughter Iphigenia?

Wow! Does that mean I'm taken for a woman because I'm so pleasant?

I'm all in favour of mixing up the pronouns. If you read back through my posts when I'm giving examples, you'll find I do it frequently. Why? it breaks default assumptions in the language which seemed a good thing. And when I asked why I shouldn't I only came up with mental laziness and the chance of confusing people. The former turned out to an argument for it, imo, and the latter people will get cured of with time.

蔭天使 - You forgot about cut and paste.

-K.

Abnormal and excessive levels of testosterone injection causes behavioural changes. Similarly, abnormally low levels of testosterone produce similar affects, which suggests that the human body is designed to operate within a certain range.

I agree with you entirely. My point was that whether someone enjoys a particular play-style is dependent on their individual personality and not their sex.

Aww, c'mon, Foxie. You're making it sound like shoot 'em ups never solve problems!

Take the ammo from the dudes you waste. Think of it as your contribution to the recycling effort.

What about Linda Hamilton from T2 in her commando gear.? Delicious.

(Everybody)^2 - Me

... with maybe some exceptions.

On Topic, Yes, I think clothing is a hugely important part of any game. It determines your status, capability, efficiency, practicality, etc. for others to just look at and size up.

"The Clothes make the (wo)man" as the old saying goes.

That's because nuthin' in SR screams cool badass like the lolEastwood.

So do the chicks!

I mean, who wouldn't? They're just too cool.

I want a girl with a short skirt and a long jacket. - Cake

I'm honored. Perhaps the next time I'm in the United States for a long time.

Can't do that yet. We just had Cake Time. Next is Nap Time :B

'Sides, the fashion bit does swing both ways, especially in shadowrun where appearance helps street cred, and to a lesser extent, business deals.

So please, give us yer 2 on the whole thing.

My group is more in its early 30s. I know my way of writing doesnt reflect it, but please forgive my weaknesses in english, i cannot practice much except on forums ...
I must say that the women in my group play :
- A street shaman living in a garbage dump. She likes playing curious characters that dont get too much involved in problems but like to be able to interfere in everything.(Is "meddler" the correct word ?)
- A trolless street sam from the black forest kingdom. She loves to make drawings of every characters (she works in anime business) and is usually very attached to her character's appearence. She hates to be manipulated in game, and so likes to be able to stop an argument by hitting hard.
- An elven social adept. In classical fantasy games, she plays allmost always a dwarven warrior. She doesnt care about looks. She mostly play masculine characters. I have no clue what she like in rpgs (even if i play with her for years).
- A dwarven scholar. My girl friend, she played like 5 times. Seems like she plays to please me, even if she denies it, and to be with her friends...

Ok now that you know my rpg life, i'll come back to the subject.

First, my "problems" are clearly personal. But i suppose the questions i ask might help any GM.
After all the problems i encounter arent really gender related. I'd say they are related to the "casual" gamer, the one that still dont know what dices to roll after years of gaming.

Women players are often in this category. Maybe other female player will concur or deny, but i think that they dont like abstraction, so all the "rules thing" that are supposed to resolve actions fall into that category.
If i let my female players describe their characters, they'll say something like "ok, so my character is tall, blond and pretty".
You'll then ask me why i said my female players where bothered with looks in shadowrun no ?
Well they are lasier than me, and usualy it requires me to help them give all the necessary details (in private) and then they are happy to describe themsleves with all those details (pretending of course it all comes from their imagination )

So ultimately, the "looks" problem comes from me, not my players. While i can have tons of imagination for medieval or renaissance settings, i have praticaly none for cyber universe. So their looks is either "a fancy dress" or "a corp suit" depending on the situation.

So back to female players on that matter.
There are tons of looks exemple for cyber games, but female players lack sometimes the imagination (or do not try to imagine) necessary for such a setting. After all, everything is possible when it comes to look in shadowrun.

Epic in SR, and female players ...
Why would a female player want more epic stories than male players ?
That's ultimately the question i should have asked myslef (and you guys and gals)
Everyone pointed out that SR can be as epic as i want.
I wont disagree.
I'll just say that the basic story isnt epic, at least as much as the typical fantasy game where saving the world from evil forces is done as often as i eat cheese and wine (i'm french )

To see the "epicness" in an SR campaign is harder than in a "classical" fantasy game. Your ennemies are often unknown, their plans are unknown, and even your actions wont have a lot of sense since you're basicaly blind to your employer's motives and ultimate goals (again i'm talking in general terms, not all stories needs to be like this).
My male players like it : they are paranoïd and are sure that everything they do is part of a great plan, and even if the story has nothing epic, they're sure they're doing something "big" (actualy i'm running harlequin, and there's nothing big in being a pawn for a vengence).
My female players have a hard time feeling involved in the story.
This again might be my fault.
My male players know that i like the principle "you'll pay for what you get". That is, for every perk they'll get, they'll have a nice problem awaiting. So when they create their characters, they always have nice flaws, ennemies etc ... because they know their characters will be even more interesting.
My female characters dont like that ... Actualy they are plyaing "munchkin" and the only flaws they'll take for their characters are those they'll get some points from without too much problems.
The result means that they dont feel compelled to run. They dont "take it personal" and so do not believe they really fit into the story.

What about this and epics ?
Well, if you do not involve your character fully into the story, take risks etc ... no one is going to take your hand and lead you to the movers and shakers in the SR world ... so they wont feel to be in an epic story until someone tells them what's really going on

So what are my conclusions ?
My "female player" problems arent really gender related.
Most female players i know are passive and will get involved fully into the game only if i fully involve them into the story.

Now my general theory about having female players enjoy the game :
- Help them a lot when creating their character. Be patient and sometimes dont hesitate to be "directive".
- Give them perks and flaws that will help them feel their characters real.
- Make sure their character has specialities that are vital to the story. That will allow them to be the "heroe" without feeling your direct intervention as a GM.
- Make sure they have a "friend in high places". While it might not always be logical to have your player chat with Dunky about the latest fashion, having such contacts will make them feel like being "important", give them ingame information of what's truely happening. You'll always find a way to justify their relationship regarding to the global game world coherence.
- Do not hesitate to give them skills, powers or equipment you wouldnt have allowed to the "common" player. (for exemple, i'm playing in 2052, one of the players is from prague and follow the unified magic theory) You wont regret giving them something too powerfull and then ruining the story, and when the other players will realise what power she has, she'll love the feeling of beeing seen as very powerfull.

Now that i re read my "conclusions" i realise i'm being very paternalistic
As long as all my players enjoy their game, i'll be happy with it.
I do not know if all these "resolutions" will work, but its what i intend to do in order to be sure my female players have a good time playing shadowrun

Anyway, this discussion is far from being over

This is an interesting argument little Ninja.
In fact it leads me to another reflexion and probably a new clue to my female player's "problems" : while SR might look "similar" to "your" world, i think it is quite different here in France.
My female players never worked for a "corporation" : they dont know what a "suit" is(one is an artist, one works for public administration, another in an hospital. One probably knows what it might look like, but i think she spends most of her time actualy trying to avoid working), what an open space is (as in an office, less than half french workers actually work for compagnies with more than 100 employers), or even what a mall is (there are only a few malls in france, most shops are just on the street).
High tech isnt that much of an issue, even none of them want to know anything about the matrix(even the movie).
I think my players have an easier time imaginating the Great Hall of Rohan because of their readings and centers of interest (they all share a "love" of fantasy and faerie novels), than a corporate-compulsive consumerist world.

To come back to a more general approach, since the game i run is centered on Seatle for the moment, the whole approach of the game comes from an american point of view (and an american point of view of the early eighties).
Do other euro players/GMs like myself have issues regarding those cultural differences ?
Are your stories settings in europe or the states ?

About "gender issues", i ask to my fellow GMs and female players around here : what is it you like and dont like in RPGs ? in Shadowrun specificaly ?
Do you think these tastes are linked to your gender ?

I'm sorry if my reflexions, comments etc ... arent quite coherent, all these posts help me understand and think about all this issue, so at each post, my point of view evolve as i try to have a clear view about all this.

I pulled this one out because the second part I have noticed: even the gender-linked aspect.

Some players like things to remain unknown and to feel like pawns specifically because it allows seemingly consequence-free action. If you don't know what's going on in the greater picture, then you are free to react within the moment and not take anything else into consideration.

Some players prefer to try to piece the big picture together. The idea there is that understanding creates some level of personal control in a ruthless world: call it "purpose", maybe. However, the more one knows, the wider one knows are the consequence ripples from one's actions.

Recurring NPCs are a way into hooking understanding out of the world. NPCs who are normally toss-aways, in contrast, are a way of denying understanding of the world.

Well then, thank God for the internets. I'm sure spending a few minutes on flickr or photobucket and searching for things like "cubicle farm," "shopping mall," "food court," and other staples of good ol' American Consumerism would totally help you out. This is what I do whenever I have a hard time explaining something to my players (which is rare).

Then its just a matter of, "It looks sorta like this only with more Neon and Goth kids." Make sure you point out that it isn't an end-all be-all map though. Just an example.

As for the Euro-GMs, I played in one game where the dude based the game in Berlin. Now, I don't have any regional sourcebooks, so when my Seatle-based PC flew in... well, culture "shock" is an understatement.

Anyway, mybe your best bet is to actually set a few games locally. Might let them get a better feel for the game (this goes for all your players).

Est-ce que le cyberpunk est un produit du culture American?


You just filled my head with the mental image of a Shadowrun world where everybody is speaking French but instead of being crammed into little cubicles and having boring soulless lives they are standing outside around the streets and striking while public transportation grinds to a halt.

rofl