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Pendaric
Welcome to the bleeding edge of the style world, fashion fans. If you’re an ork or troll you’re nobody nowadays without some kind of tusk equipment.
What started as a street fashion on the streets of Seattle has gone global thanks to the adoption by Or’zet rappers.
Ork and troll tusks obviously sit proud of the lower jaw line and lower lip leading to them not being utilised in mastication, this little known fact has been the foundation of ork and troll youth bringing attention to their heritage.
Tusk adornment has become the thing of the nano.
In the beginning of this style statement by the angry youth of today, simple tusk caps and piercings where the extent of the choice available.


This breeder has got dis all backwards, it was my chummer, Dint, that got some steel caps for the next turf war. Meanest bite on the street. Bite like a barghest.
Kunk

Now the ork fashion gurus of the music world are sporting inlaid gems, enamel dying and even engraved tusks with inlaid gold.

Scan this. I was the first trog in the plex to have my tusks capped. Before I knew it every drekheel and charlatan was copying me. Frag even got breeders getting tusks to rip my style. So I change to gold inlays, fraggers rip that too. Try being an individual with every slitch copying you.
J.J.

Chummer, it’s a cross to bear being a fashion setter. smile.gif
Decker

Frag you and the deck I gave you. smile.gif
J.J.

For trolls there is plenty more room for self expression. Young trolls like Corwin Steel, lead guitar of the eco thrash band Pangea, have taken to horn carving. Steel sights his inspirations as the changeling performance artist Celia Mandrake. We are reliably informed Miss Mandrake has circuitry pattern UV inlays in her horns that makes for a dazzling display on stage.
Other examples of horn art start as simple as sanding smooth through geometric patterns/inlays, to as intricate as a depiction of DaVinci’s Last supper showcased at the UCAS national body art exhibit in New York.


My troll chummer got drunk and had his horns craved by the Spike’s current artist.
Nice job too, real hit with the larger ladies…..
Jin

It isn’t just troll meta-variants that are going for this. I am seeing patterned/inlaid and craved horns on changelings and cyber enhanced club goers. Of course it started much more fringe than this, classic dual evolution from the fetish and street styles.
Piewacket
Pendaric
Hope you DS's like this, feel free to embelish. If you don't like this now is the time for long, quiet introspection. smile.gif
Pendaric
hmmm Lots of introspection going on
Thread necromancy!
I promise to let it drop after this.
Angelone
Don't get me wrong it's interesting and I like it, kinda I actually like making fun of people with it, but it doesn't help my human mage much. Maybe on my next troll, ain't promising anything though wink.gif
Slash_Thompson
it's fantastic fluff, would make at worst a good news-clip for the next time a player asks what's on the trid.
mfb
all of my ork characters mod their tusks in some way. one of them has gold and copper wire inlaid into grooves in her tusks; another has his tusks scrimshawed.
Pendaric
I am glad it has found others that like the idea.
Link
QUOTE (Pendaric)
hmmm Lots of introspection going on
Thread necromancy!
I promise to let it drop after this.

QUOTE (Pendaric)
I am glad it has found others that like the idea.

Let it go wink.gif

I hate trogs! but tusk ornamentation is a good concept. What about some tattoo-like magic where the tusks are engraved with sigils and so on to function as spell quickening. The maximum rating would equal BOD - CHA so that many horned, ugly troll could get about a 10 force spell quickened (or 2 force 5's etc).
Snow_Fox
I can see it on trolls but selling to orks seems more exploitive. . For trolls it kind of goes with it. there's nothing more pathetic than some troll trying to hide her looks. Honey you're not passing as human. You're 10 feet tall-we all see you-so may as well stand proud and show off what you got. These ornaments would do that, but orks. No that's just trying to sell to a market that doesn't need them. Ork fangs, not tusks, fangs don't portrude as much and do get a lot of use in eating. having seen many an ork at the Big Rhino tease me about having 'puny little human teeth' to eat ribs with, I think any such ornamentation on orks would be a waste.
Daddy's Little Ninja
I think it is very nice that someone could take the time to design things to make the Changed Ones' lives better. They are bombarded with images in the media that are slender and smaller than they are which only reminds them of how terribly far they are from human. These things will help them develop their own sense of style and feel better about themselves.
Begby
Pendaric: If you'd like to get some press on the Horn Carving cultural write-up you did, we'd accomodate you. We would insert you as an NPC cultural reporter from MNN (Metahuman News Network) and you would do a piece on this for our blog. We'll illustrate it as well and give you credit.

Contact me at ghemcartographer@yahoo.com for further info.

Check my sig (From the Shadows) to see where it would be posted.
mfb
QUOTE (Snow Fox)
No that's just trying to sell to a market that doesn't need them. Ork fangs, not tusks, fangs don't portrude as much and do get a lot of use in eating. having seen many an ork at the Big Rhino tease me about having 'puny little human teeth' to eat ribs with, I think any such ornamentation on orks would be a waste.

i think there are a lot of orks who would take fairly strong offense to that line of thinking. yes, orks could dress nice and fit in with smoothie society... sorta, as second-class citizens in fact if not in law. or, they could reject smoothie society and embrace their own cultural identity. if they're going to be second-class citizens anyway, what's the point in grovelling?
fistandantilus4.0
Sons of Sauron wants YOU! ork.gif
*note - need more orkish looking emoticon*
mfb
hm, it occurs to me that i don't have any SoS characters. though i've always wondered what the hell orks have to do with some guy that can turn into a pterodactyl...
Angelone
devil.gif <---I always thought that one looked the most orcish. Even though the horns could be taken as elven ears in that case it be a banshee.
Fortune
QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0)
*note - need more orkish looking emoticon*

Only if you get an elf icon as well. smile.gif
Kagetenshi
I, at least, do not want to see this place go the way of some fanboards with smilies for every single subject-related thing imaginable (UT-related boards and the OOTS boards, I'm looking at you).

~J
Daddy's Little Ninja
QUOTE (mfb)
QUOTE (Snow Fox)
No that's just trying to sell to a market that doesn't need them. Ork fangs, not tusks, fangs don't portrude as much and do get a lot of use in eating. having seen many an ork at the Big Rhino tease me about having 'puny little human teeth' to eat ribs with, I think any such ornamentation on orks would be a waste.

i think there are a lot of orks who would take fairly strong offense to that line of thinking. yes, orks could dress nice and fit in with smoothie society... sorta, as second-class citizens in fact if not in law. or, they could reject smoothie society and embrace their own cultural identity. if they're going to be second-class citizens anyway, what's the point in grovelling?

I agree with you. Such changed ones will never be human and it is a shame that someone should try to make them think they can be accepted among normal people. The sooner they accept that they cannot, and they they must accept their place in society. They will be much happier than people wishing for something they will never have.
Snow fox you are just being cruel to make them think they can socialize with real humans on an equal social footing.
mfb
i think there are a lot of orks who would reject the value of being accepted as 'normal'. they would see it as a rigged game. humans get to define what 'normal' means, so 'normal' is always going to mean 'human'--therefore, the best a meta can hope for, within the rules of the game, is to be almost normal. i think a lot of orks would want to get out of the game entirely, give the finger to normality, and be themselves.

granted, 99% of them are going to be themselves by dressing and acting like who the media says they should dress and act like. people are sheep whether they have canines or tusks.
Daddy's Little Ninja
And orks, even more than people, are sheep. since tests have shown that they do have a diminished mental ability so they are more likely to be affected by media trends than are people.
Particle_Beam
Only in SR 3. In SR 4, they suddenly become mentaly normal as every other metahuman, and simply have a limit of how smart they maximally can get. smile.gif
Daddy's Little Ninja
That is splitting hairs from a politically correct survey conducted by a pro-ork lobby. Stick with facts. It is a well known fact that changed ones are less intelligent and more brutal than real people are.
Ancient History
You're only saying that 'cause you're married to one.
Daddy's Little Ninja
My husband is human. I would not support the mixing of species. It only causes grief to the community in general.
Particle_Beam
So what? You're a ninja, for fracking sake!!! Ninjas are their own species, different from humans as are the other metatypes. You are quite now guilty of interspecies mixing. Don't you tell us anything about facts and truths, when you're an admitted killing machine that flips out and makes backflips in the shadows and other stuff. nyahnyah.gif
Fortune
QUOTE (Daddy's Little Ninja)
I would not support the mixing of species. It only causes grief to the community in general.

That's ... just ... funny! rotfl.gif
Daddy's Little Ninja
QUOTE (Particle_Beam)
So what? You're a ninja, for fracking sake!!! Ninjas are their own species, different from humans as are the other metatypes. You are quite now guilty of interspecies mixing. Don't you tell us anything about facts and truths, when you're an admitted killing machine that flips out and makes backflips in the shadows and other stuff. nyahnyah.gif

You are sadly confusing myths and street handles with facts. I am human. Orks are not. Humans and orks are clearly different species.
John Campbell
QUOTE (Daddy's Little Ninja)
You are sadly confusing myths and street handles with facts. I am human. Orks are not. Humans and orks are clearly different species.

Actually, the fact that such mixing is possible, and results in fertile offspring, means that orks and humans are, by definition, the same species.

Also, while studies indicate that orks and trolls are, on average, less intelligent than humans, there's no evidence supporting the assertion that orks are more easily influenced than humans. Some studies conducted prior to 2060 do indicate that trolls are more easily influenced than humans, but, strangely, this is not evident in post-2060 studies, even using the same methodology.
Kagetenshi
Actually, studies from 2061, 2063, and 2064 all show quite clearly that Trolls are significantly more susceptible to influence than humans.

~J
mfb
that's inaccurate. trolls (and orks) are less likely to spot logical flaws in concepts they are presented with. therefore, it's easier to fool an ork or a troll into doing what you want them to do. more direct methods of influence, such as threats, work no better or worse on trolls than on humans.
PlatonicPimp
As the years go by, the average IQ, EQ, and social aptitude scores for orks and trolls have been steadily increasing. 2 decades ago it was obvious in the studies that orks and trolls had diminished capabilities. These days the statistics compare favorably with all metatypes, with limitation only apparent at the top end.

Why? Well, the experts theorize a few reasons. First is that the first generations of orcs and trolls Goblinized, rather than being born that way. The traumatic nature of goblinization often lead to Brain damage, PTSD and psychosis. The second generation of gobliniods were usually raised by this first generation, who had notably poor parenting skills. Also, a hostile society (and diminished mental health) would push these groups to the lower ends of society, the edges, where education is neither readily available nor held in high regard. Most statistics you see for gobliniod mental ability do not normalize across economic class. Economic class has it's own (large) distinct effect on these scores, and to fail to account for it is unscientific.

Thus first generation orcs had terrific mental handicaps due to trauma. Second generation orcs had better metnal health but worse education. Both facts lead to significant difficulties performing on the standardized intelligence and social aptitude tests.

However, Third generation orcs were born to the comparitively more stable second generation orcs, many to parents who had come to terms with their identity, and so grew up in generally more positive environments. Also, societal prejudice had lessened somewhat, and comparatively more educational opportunities were available. Beginning with these third generation gobliniods, measured disparity between humans and gobliniods began to decrease. This increase in the tested abilities of gobliniods has continued for the last decade. As trends towards normalization of gobliniods continue, some researchers beleive that the difference may disappear altogether.
Snow_Fox
QUOTE (Daddy's Little Ninja)
QUOTE (mfb @ Jul 24 2007, 05:45 PM)
QUOTE (Snow Fox)
No that's just trying to sell to a market that doesn't need them. Ork fangs, not tusks, fangs don't portrude as much and do get a lot of use in eating. having seen many an ork at the Big Rhino tease me about having 'puny little human teeth' to eat ribs with, I think any such ornamentation on orks would be a waste.

i think there are a lot of orks who would take fairly strong offense to that line of thinking. yes, orks could dress nice and fit in with smoothie society... sorta, as second-class citizens in fact if not in law. or, they could reject smoothie society and embrace their own cultural identity. if they're going to be second-class citizens anyway, what's the point in grovelling?

I agree with you. Such changed ones will never be human and it is a shame that someone should try to make them think they can be accepted among normal people. The sooner they accept that they cannot, and they they must accept their place in society. They will be much happier than people wishing for something they will never have.
Snow fox you are just being cruel to make them think they can socialize with real humans on an equal social footing.

If you could get past your purer than thou prejudice you'd know that Orks are people too. It took me a long time to get accepted at the Big Rhino (the things I do for decent ribs) but once I was accepted as one of the gang and in on many of the jokes it was easy to see that orks are just hard working joes who got handed a lousy card,genetically, but play it well and just want a chance, wehat any normal person wants.
Daddy's Little Ninja
Snow Fox- a lot of corpers like to go slumming too. That doesn't mean they really think those people they mix with when they do so are their equals.

QUOTE (John Campbell @ Jul 30 2007, 03:30 PM)
QUOTE (Daddy's Little Ninja)
You are sadly confusing myths and street handles with facts. I am human. Orks are not. Humans and orks are clearly different species.

Actually, the fact that such mixing is possible, and results in fertile offspring, means that orks and humans are, by definition, the same species.

Also, while studies indicate that orks and trolls are, on average, less intelligent than humans, there's no evidence supporting the assertion that orks are more easily influenced than humans. Some studies conducted prior to 2060 do indicate that trolls are more easily influenced than humans, but, strangely, this is not evident in post-2060 studies, even using the same methodology.

There are always depraved individuals willing to perform unnatural acts. look at earlier forms of beastiality. As for the orks who look to touch human women, they are to be pitied. When was the last time you saw an ork or troll spokesmodel at a car show or high fashion? The media bombard these poor creatures with the idea that human is the desired norm and what they should want. It is like in the last century ,there was a white blond child's toy that was supposed to be the height of beauty. I think it was called 'Barry.' It was so plugged by the media that even little girls who were not white or blond would rather play with her than with dolls that looked like they did.

The platonic pimp is making the usual pc argument from the left, to show that 'orks aren't that bad' but the fact that universities have to devote huge amount of time and money to come up with a very few supporting numbers shows my point. There are always a few above average types and these poor souls are grabbed by the liberal left as 'proof' of their ridiculous claims. Instead of being left in their communities where their abilities would make them natural leaders and capable of bettering their fellows, they are dragged into the human world to be shown off as 'proof' of the latest liberal theory in the 21st century equivelant of a side show.

Kagetenchi understands the truth of this.
Pendaric
As a human I can only stand agast at the Humanis point of view. The majority of humans are lack lustre, savage sheep lead by the corporate spin doctors and lacking in indivduality or basic politeness. Humanis supporters are typified by a smug superiority leading to a patronising stance at best and mindless rudeness at worst. There is no excuse for poor manners.
By comparison the majority of orks leading a far more violent existance remember the essence of respect and civilisation, is to be civil.

I remember fondly meeting an unruly mob of Humanis yahoos and correcting their etiquette accordingly. Bigotry is such a course face of humanity.
Angelone
Last group of orcs I met tried to rob and kill me. Last group of humans I met bought me drinks and partied with me til dawn. There is the difference.
Pendaric
Judge on individual terms not generic racial ones. If humans have a greater intellect why do they refuse to use it?
John Campbell
QUOTE (Daddy's Little Ninja)
QUOTE (John Campbell @ Jul 30 2007, 03:30 PM)
Actually, the fact that such mixing is possible, and results in fertile offspring, means that orks and humans are, by definition, the same species.

There are always depraved individuals willing to perform unnatural acts. look at earlier forms of beastiality.

The difference is, when some guy gets it on with a sheep, you don't end up with lambs. Human-ork matings produce baby orks, who can produce more baby orks. In fact, it doesn't happen much anymore, but human-human matings can produce baby orks. If you go back a few generations, all orks have pure-human ancestry. Biologically, orks are human. Magically-altered humans, but human nonetheless.

This applies to the other metatypes as well. We're all interfertile (though there are some, uh, logistical difficulties with certain combinations); therefore, we're all, by definition, the same species.

QUOTE
As for the orks who look to touch human women, they are to be pitied.  When was the last time you saw an ork or troll spokesmodel at a car show or high fashion? The media bombard these poor creatures with the idea that human is the desired norm and what they should want. It is like in the last century ,there was a white blond child's toy that was supposed to be the height of beauty. I think it was called 'Barry.' It was so plugged by the media that even little girls who were not white or blond would rather play with her than with dolls that looked like they did.

I don't think it's debatable that widespread discrimination against orks, by media and others, exists. I'm not sure what you're bringing this up in support of; it seems to me that it's a better point in support of the other side.

QUOTE
The platonic pimp is making the usual pc argument from the left, to show that 'orks aren't that bad' but the fact that universities have to devote huge amount of time and money to come up with a very few supporting numbers shows my point. There are always a few above average types and these poor souls are grabbed by the liberal left as 'proof' of their ridiculous claims. Instead of being left in their communities where their abilities would make them natural leaders and capable of bettering their fellows, they are dragged into the human world to be shown off as 'proof' of the latest liberal theory in the 21st century equivelant of a side show.

The vast majority of humans aren't all that bright, either.

QUOTE
Kagetenchi understands the truth of this.

Who?
DuckEggBlue Omega
QUOTE (John Campbell @ Jul 31 2007, 06:00 AM)
Actually, the fact that such mixing is possible, and results in fertile offspring, means that orks and humans are, by definition, the same species.

QUOTE (John Campbell)
This applies to the other metatypes as well. We're all interfertile (though there are some, uh, logistical difficulties with certain combinations); therefore, we're all, by definition, the same species.

That's a common misconception. Interspecific hybrids (hybrids between different species) are usually sterile, HOWEVER, there are a number of known instances of fertile interspecific hybrids, most commonly occuring in the Bos and Canis genera.
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (John Campbell)
The difference is, when some guy gets it on with a sheep, you don't end up with lambs.

Oh, certainly. Nevertheless, that doesn't make them human in any meaningful fashion.
QUOTE
I don't think it's debatable that widespread discrimination against orks, by media and others, exists.

It is absolutely debatable. Orks are overrepresented in scholarship grants. Orks are notoriously difficult to fire without a lawsuit resulting. Orks on airplanes aren't subject to the same kind of security and guarding that humans with cyberarms that are weaker than that ork's natural arms are subject to. That's not even getting into Trolls.

Orks were discriminated against once, but they've parlayed that into a nice, comfortable advantaged position. Where are the foundations to help underprivileged humans? There are more underprivileged humans than there are underprivileged Orks, but any attempt to found a charity to specifically benefit underprivileged humans gets shouted down with cries of racism. On the other hand, there are no less than twenty Ork-only charities in Seattle alone.

Come back to me when a SINless human has a quarter the opportunities available to him that a SINless Ork does, and we can talk about "discrimination against Orks".

~J
mfb
QUOTE (DuckEggBlue Omega)
Interspecific hybrids (hybrids between different species) are usually sterile, HOWEVER, there are a number of known instances of fertile interspecific hybrids, most commonly occuring in the Bos and Canis genera.

if the interbreeding happens often enough, the offspring will eventually replace both species--which, if you accept the unsupported hypothesis that orks and humans (and elves and trolls) were different species to begin with, is what appears to have happened here. there are no 'pure' metatypes, only humans who express their genetic heritage differently. Daddy's Little Ninja simply happens to have expressed her Tojo Hideki genes, rather than her Neil the Ork Barbarian genes. that doesn't make her any more purely human than the orks she pities, the same way Menel's purple-flowered peas were not necessarily more purely purple than his white-flowered peas.
Daddy's Little Ninja
A very good point. and it shows the support of the liberal left who like to wave flags rather than really achieve things.

I do not support Humanis ideals that call for blood shed against changed ones. I believe they have rights and a place and should be pitied for their disadvantages but they should not be elevated to a degree that they are incapable of holding on their own.

For those who point out human/ork breeding. you are proving my ponit that orks are not at the same level as humans. Such horrors usually result in ork children. Orks breeding with orks do not breed humans. this is like the way that off spring of people genetically damaged by radiation pass that damage to their children.
mfb
QUOTE (Daddy's Little Ninja)
Orks breeding with orks do not breed humans. this is like the way that off spring of people genetically damaged by radiation pass that damage to their children.

which is the entire point. everybody has that 'damage'. there is no such thing as interspecies breeding among humans and metahumans because everyone has metagenes. unexpressed, in the case of most humans, but they're there. you might walk through a manaline tomorrow and sprout tusks.
Herald of Verjigorm
QUOTE (Daddy's Little Ninja)
Orks breeding with orks do not breed humans.

Not often no, but the line in discussion of giants in Companion states that giants have an above average rate of having regular human children (25% of daughters) as metahumans go, it doesn't state that giants are the only metatype to have regular human offspring.
PBTHHHHT
QUOTE (Herald of Verjigorm)
QUOTE (Daddy's Little Ninja @ Jul 31 2007, 01:40 PM)
Orks breeding with orks do not breed humans.

Not often no, but the line in discussion of giants in Companion states that giants have an above average rate of having regular human children (25% of daughters) as metahumans go, it doesn't state that giants are the only metatype to have regular human offspring.

When I read in the Companion that I had an inspiration of a character who's background is one where he's a human born to troll (or ork) parents, and all his sibilings are troll (or orks). I was curious how his life would be growing up in such an environment, the jealousy by his siblings that he was born 'normal' and the taunts and such from the other kid trolls (or orks). Then there's the other part, of where he's also family and what do they do. Will he as he grows up attempt to hide where he came from? Or does he do the opposite. Anyway, just some thoughts that came to me when I read that part for the giants and interpreting it that giants have a higher percentage, but are not the only metas with this chance of reversion back to humans.
DuckEggBlue Omega
QUOTE (mfb)
QUOTE (DuckEggBlue Omega)
Interspecific hybrids (hybrids between different species) are usually sterile, HOWEVER, there are a number of known instances of fertile interspecific hybrids, most commonly occuring in the Bos and Canis genera.

if the interbreeding happens often enough, the offspring will eventually replace both species...

...the same way Menel's purple-flowered peas were not necessarily more purely purple than his white-flowered peas.

I wasn't saying metahumans are different species, I was only pointing out that the idea that interbreeding = same species, is false. The 'science' people are presenting is wrong.

Speaking of, interbreeding wouldn't just have to occur 'often enough' for the species to be replaced, it would need to occur to the exclusion of all else, and even then there's a chance the original species could re-occur.

And there's very little point mentioning Mendelian Inheritance when the races violate Mendel's Laws. There's even less point if your ignoring that you can very much have people with 'pure' Mendelian traits (and in the case of recessive traits, it's neccesary) or that the dominance/reccesiveness of a particular allele is fixed.

The metaraces are magical, and trying to introduce science into this argument is pointless. I think the fact that the metas all came from humans is proof enough that they are also human.
Moon-Hawk
QUOTE (DuckEggBlue Omega)
I think the fact that the metas all came from humans is proof enough that they are also human.

...or that they're post-human.
DuckEggBlue Omega
Well not really 'post' in the case of orcs and trolls with goblinisation.
Moon-Hawk
QUOTE (DuckEggBlue Omega)
Well not really 'post' in the case of orcs and trolls with goblinisation.

I suppose the goblinized would be the trans-humans, in this example.
hyzmarca
Orks and Humans are different. Orks are superior to humans in every way. The extinction of Human-kind within the next century is inevitable, as is the rise of Ork-kind as the dominant species on the planet. This is how it is and how it should be. Inferiors should not lament their end, but embrace it.
DuckEggBlue Omega
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
Orks are superior to humans in ever way.

"You don't get it, Steve. That doesn't matter."
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