hobgoblin
Jul 27 2007, 10:38 AM
QUOTE (Kyrn) |
Holy crap-face! Type O System is wicked. Cyber adepts everywhere are going to be sweating the points for this one.
And Move by Wire...wow. Just wow. They actually made this sicker. |
ok, now that sounds just scary. a slicker move-by-wire just cant be good for a GM's mental health...
Kyrn
Jul 27 2007, 10:46 AM
It's just...evil man. EVIL. It seems to be the samurai's answer to combat sense, and then some.
Edit: Woah! I can get vectored-thrust [/I]feet[I]? I'm not even a quarter of the way through the book yet and I'm starting to get a little apprehensive as to what else they've got stashed away.
Synner
Jul 27 2007, 10:50 AM
So... think we can put to bed the fears of Manarun now? Augmentation should give street sams and enhancement freaks the loving they deserve - and I can virtually guarantee you'll even find yourself using the often-ignored genetech and nanoware now.
hobgoblin
Jul 27 2007, 10:57 AM
i just wonder when the bitching of unrealistic tech will start...
Ol' Scratch
Jul 27 2007, 11:03 AM
Move-By-Wire isn't "evil." It's just a notable upgrade from Wired Reflexes (same Essence cost, much more expensive, much higher Availability). The combat benefits are pretty minor for the cost difference, giving just +1 Reaction and +1 Dodge per level over Wired Reflexes. The cool thing is that it also doubles as a set of Skillwires and "officially" works with Reaction Enhancers as well.
It pales compared to the benefits it had in previous editions, but more than makes up for it with a total lack of any of the negatives either. It's finally just another piece of tech to get. A very, very hard to get and expensive piece of tech. Something for street samurai-types to aspire to, much like initiation for adepts.
Ol' Scratch
Jul 27 2007, 11:05 AM
QUOTE (hobgoblin) |
i just wonder when the bitching of unrealistic tech will start... |
It's Shadowrun. Bitching about the realism of the technology in this game is pretty redundant. The only thing worth complaining about is the believability within its own world. So far I haven't really seen anything to complain about in that regard, though I haven't looked at the odd-ball stuff in detail yet (Cyborgs, Cyberzombies, etc.).
Kyrn
Jul 27 2007, 11:07 AM
Move-by-Wire really isn't all that expensive. And the added skillwires are very cool. I have to wonder though, at how often a sam could add reaction enhancers to his move-by-wire without running into augmented attribute caps.
Marwynn
Jul 27 2007, 11:08 AM
Were the "Silk Glands" in previous editions of SR? Because I just had to start creating a character with two of those.
Shadowman, Shadowman, your friendly neighbourhood Shadowman...
Really, really nifty stuff. Was reading it to the wee hours of the morning. I am now definitely keeping my Mage's lower cyber arm. I can get Agility 7 on it and still have room for the Gyromount.
Ol' Scratch
Jul 27 2007, 11:17 AM
QUOTE (Kyrn) |
Move-by-Wire really isn't all that expensive. |
Yeah. Availability 25F and 175,000¥ pricetag isn't prohibitive at all for Move-By-Wire 3. Especially since you're going to want to get it at least as a Beta implant, raising it to 700,000¥ so that you can at least have a little more room for other implants. Compared to the 400,000¥ for the same grade of Wired Reflexes 3. All for +3 Reaction (if you haven't already reached the limit), +3 Dodge, and a set of free Skillwires over the latter. Personally, I don't think that's worth 300,000¥. Opinions vary, though.
QUOTE |
I have to wonder though, at how often a sam could add reaction enhancers to his move-by-wire without running into augmented attribute caps. |
Exactly.
Again: Really nice piece of tech to aspire to, but it's not cheap and it's certainly not very available. Especially the whole Forbidden part of it, which is well beyond Restricted.
Rotbart van Dainig
Jul 27 2007, 11:18 AM
QUOTE (hobgoblin) |
i just wonder when the bitching of unrealistic tech will start... |
Heh. It's strange though, that an adult doesn't suffer any penalties when jumping into a anthroform drone, but a cyborg does...
Wakshaani
Jul 27 2007, 11:28 AM
QUOTE (Adam) |
[QUOTE=Wakshaani,Jul 26 2007, 08:56 PM] BTW: 25.00 CAD = 23.7306 USD
Welcome to modern exchange rates. |
*sputter*!
What happened to the good ol' $1 US = $1.25 Canadian?
Canadian cash as valuable as American? Euros kickin' our tushies? Less than a hundred Yen to a buck?
This is madness!
(G'head. You know what line to use here. It's just sitting there for you, wiiide open.)
Aaron
Jul 27 2007, 11:52 AM
QUOTE (Wakshaani @ Jul 27 2007, 06:28 AM) |
*sputter*!
What happened to the good ol' $1 US = $1.25 Canadian?
Canadian cash as valuable as American? Euros kickin' our tushies? Less than a hundred Yen to a buck?
This is madness!
|
If that's got you sputtering, try not to look at the exchange rates between the US dollar and the Iraqi dinar.
Rotbart van Dainig
Jul 27 2007, 01:46 PM
QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) |
QUOTE (Zen Shooter01) | Biocompatability is the new Most Popular positive quality. Ten percent off Essence cost of the implant technology of your choice, for a mere 10 bp. Wow.
|
It's little more than a "you can have beta-grade implants at character creation, but instead of the normal cost for beta implants, you have to pay a flat 50,000¥ fee and can only apply it to one type of implant [cyberware or bioware], not both."
|
But it is actually useful on the long run.
The Genecrafted quality however, is worse:
It essentially costs 25K¥ for a 20% rebate to price of Genetech the characters starts with.
Thus, it only pays off if the character starts with more than 125K¥ worth of Genetech.
PlatonicPimp
Jul 27 2007, 01:46 PM
QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) |
Yeah. Kind of sucks that it completely pushes Ultrasound off the map, though. There's no reason to use it except for synergy with other devices that use it (like Motion Sensors), but that's a pretty sad justification for it. Radar blows it off the map. |
I think you must have missed the part where Radar is subject to Jamming. Ultrasound is not.
Zen Shooter01
Jul 27 2007, 01:54 PM
Looking at the genetech, it seems to me that it's awfully expensive in nuyen for some fairly thin bonuses.
The environment adaptations are neat, though.
I've just built a character with raptor legs and skates. He's hard to catch.
Going to move on to a character with an eyeband and radar sensor.
Have I mentioned the uses for radar and APDS shotgun slugs? Or radar... and the Panther Assault Cannon?
Just think, kids, of the implant/gear combos that Arsenal might make possible...
Marwynn
Jul 27 2007, 01:55 PM
Wait, is Biocompatibility cumulative with the Standard Essence cost of the implant or is it 10% off an implant's current Essence cost depending on the grade.
For example, you have a Dwarf that's Biocompatible with Cyberware. He's thinking of buying a Control Rig with an essence cost of 0.50. The Alpha is at 0.40 (80% of the standard) and he decides that's better choice for the long-haul.
Since he's Biocompatible is it now 70% at 0.35 Essence, or is it 72% (10% of 80% is 8%) at 0.36?
I had glanced through it, focusing more on the Cyberware part, so I can't recall. (And I'm at work...)
Rotbart van Dainig
Jul 27 2007, 01:56 PM
QUOTE (PlatonicPimp) |
I think you must have missed the part where Radar is subject to Jamming. Ultrasound is not. |
Ultrasound is, in fact... the jammer is just called 'White Noise Generator'.
And you can't install ECCM, like you can, against jamming...
Rotbart van Dainig
Jul 27 2007, 01:59 PM
QUOTE (Marwynn) |
Since he's Biocompatible is it now 70% at 0.35 Essence, or is it 72% (10% of 80% is 8%) at 0.36? |
It get's funnier when you factor in Adapsin Genetech.
It would be nice to add up modifiers, but, as it is now, it's (Implant Cost)*0,8*0,9*0,9.
Ol' Scratch
Jul 27 2007, 02:06 PM
QUOTE (Marwynn) |
Wait, is Biocompatibility cumulative with the Standard Essence cost of the implant or is it 10% off an implant's current Essence cost depending on the grade.
For example, you have a Dwarf that's Biocompatible with Cyberware. He's thinking of buying a Control Rig with an essence cost of 0.50. The Alpha is at 0.40 (80% of the standard) and he decides that's better choice for the long-haul.
Since he's Biocompatible is it now 70% at 0.35 Essence, or is it 72% (10% of 80% is 8%) at 0.36?
I had glanced through it, focusing more on the Cyberware part, so I can't recall. (And I'm at work...) |
All cases I've stumbled across so far have them adding multipliers together before applying them. So three 10% modifier would be a 30% modifier rather than a 10% of 10% of 10% modifier. So that 0.50 implant with a 20% and 10% discount would have a 30% discount, meaning it would be 0.35 instead of 0.36.
I haven't seen anything concrete yet, but the examples I've seen have worked like that.
Marwynn
Jul 27 2007, 02:14 PM
Cool beans. So much to absorb and I'm still grappling with the basics!
Synner
Jul 27 2007, 03:34 PM
QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) |
All cases I've stumbled across so far have them adding multipliers together before applying them. So three 10% modifier would be a 30% modifier rather than a 10% of 10% of 10% modifier. So that 0.50 implant with a 20% and 10% discount would have a 30% discount, meaning it would be 0.35 instead of 0.36. |
That is correct.
Dancer
Jul 27 2007, 03:54 PM
Is it possible to get 'hot swappable' cyberlimbs?
What sort of stats can you get up to with a customised cyberlimb with enhancements?
Ranneko
Jul 27 2007, 04:06 PM
With regards to the second, Augmented max. (assuming you are meaning with both, custom, and the normal stat increase things)
And if you are using the optional rule for redlining, you can temporarily double a stat.
Rotbart van Dainig
Jul 27 2007, 04:13 PM
Orthoskin now nearly is a must-have... and I can see even more people investing in Exotic Weapons (Whips) and Steel Cables than before Darker than Black.
Dancer
Jul 27 2007, 04:29 PM
QUOTE (Ranneko) |
With regards to the second, Augmented max. (assuming you are meaning with both, custom, and the normal stat increase things)
And if you are using the optional rule for redlining, you can temporarily double a stat. |
Does that mean you could briefly have Agility 18?
eidolon
Jul 27 2007, 04:38 PM
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig) |
QUOTE (PlatonicPimp) | I think you must have missed the part where Radar is subject to Jamming. Ultrasound is not. |
Ultrasound is, in fact... the jammer is just called 'White Noise Generator'. And you can't install ECCM, like you can, against jamming...
|
Heh. I was just going to answer with
Looooooooooooooud Nooooooooiiiiises!
Kyrn
Jul 27 2007, 04:46 PM
Okay, do the symbionts seem...weird to anyone else? I mean Glow is awesome for the unawakened, but still, they can start eating you. Ick.
Ravor
Jul 27 2007, 04:47 PM
Can you soak 18S?
JonathanC
Jul 27 2007, 05:33 PM
Any idea when I can pick this up in a store? I don't like buying PDFs, personally.
Rotbart van Dainig
Jul 27 2007, 05:43 PM
Oh, and BTW - what happened to the Tactical Computer? The Math SPU is still with us, too... a mathematical SPU in a world where the average shoe has enough processing power to search for primes...
Kyoto Kid
Jul 27 2007, 05:44 PM
...just looked over the preview PDF
Space exploration?
Cyberzombies are back (yay!)
Cool ware for my "decker" Violet
The only thing that is missing is Chemtech, unless that is going into the long awaited Arsenal instead.
...damn, sometimes not having a commlink...er plastic is a pain. Can you get the PDF at your FLGS? I really really want.
imperialus
Jul 27 2007, 06:00 PM
QUOTE (JonathanC) |
Any idea when I can pick this up in a store? I don't like buying PDFs, personally. |
I belive it's getting released at Gen-Con... As for when it will make it's way to your FLGS *shrugs* that depends on the distributor... RPG's are a little too small a market to have handy thinks like worldwide release dates.
Synner
Jul 27 2007, 06:07 PM
QUOTE (JonathanC @ Jul 27 2007, 05:33 PM) |
Any idea when I can pick this up in a store? I don't like buying PDFs, personally. |
The hardcopy of Augmentation is currently at the printers. Our goal, barring intervention by the fates, is releasing Augmentation at GenCon, and it should start making its way out through the distribution network at around the same time.
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig) |
Oh, and BTW - what happened to the Tactical Computer? |
Tactical Computers will be reintroduced in SR4 in Unwired.
QUOTE (Kyoto Kid) |
The only thing that is missing is Chemtech, unless that is going into the long awaited Arsenal instead. |
That is correct.
Rotbart van Dainig
Jul 27 2007, 06:24 PM
QUOTE (Synner) |
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig) | Oh, and BTW - what happened to the Tactical Computer? |
Tactical Computers will be reintroduced in SR4 in Unwired.
|
Oh. Will Arsenal feature Implants, too?
Aaron
Jul 27 2007, 06:24 PM
QUOTE (Synner) |
QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein @ Jul 27 2007, 02:06 PM) | All cases I've stumbled across so far have them adding multipliers together before applying them. So three 10% modifier would be a 30% modifier rather than a 10% of 10% of 10% modifier. So that 0.50 implant with a 20% and 10% discount would have a 30% discount, meaning it would be 0.35 instead of 0.36. |
That is correct.
|
Sounds like good FAQ bait.
Synner
Jul 27 2007, 06:28 PM
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Jul 27 2007, 06:24 PM) |
QUOTE (Synner) | QUOTE | Oh, and BTW - what happened to the Tactical Computer? |
Tactical Computers will be reintroduced in SR4 in Unwired.
|
Oh. Will Arsenal feature Implants, too?
|
I believe your confusion comes from (erroneously) assuming that an SR4 tactical computer will be anything other than a miltech commlink (implanted or not) with a specialized tactical software suite.
Arsenal will contain guns, vehicles, drones, chemtech, explosives, drugs, hazardous environment gear and miscellaneous runner gear (and yes, some may even have implanted variants or modular limb plug-ins).
Rotbart van Dainig
Jul 27 2007, 06:32 PM
Of course, such assumption might have been fueled by the Math SPU.
It would, at least, need an additional sim module to feed subconcious information to the user.
Implant versions of external gear sound nice, though... external versions of the truely autonomous medkits like the Guardian Angel and subsequently, implant variants, perhaps?
DTFarstar
Jul 27 2007, 07:47 PM
I don't know if we are supposed to be able to print out Augmentation from the PDF before it comes out or not, but if it's not a no-no does anyone know how much Office Depot or Kinko's or some other place charges for it? I would imagine a fairly hefty price tag that will make me wait till the paper copy. Which by the way, do we have a definate date for now that the PDF has made it's way into our grubby little hands?
Chris
EDIT: Looks like I should read all the posts. In the printers, hopefully out around Gen Con. Got it.
Demerzel
Jul 27 2007, 08:04 PM
Figure $0.07 per page for copies ($0.14 double sided so no advantague) 176 pages + Front & Back cover. That's on a basic black and white laser. If you want the covers done in color like $0.99.
I printed my own on my home color laser printer. I wish I had set it to greyscale I didn' think to and it used a surprising ammount of magenta for some reason...
I had it spiral bound and it ran $2.99 at OMax. Avoid the comb binding if you want to be able to open the book all the way and have it lay flat, or flip it all the way around.
Ol' Scratch
Jul 27 2007, 08:07 PM
QUOTE (DTFarstar) |
I don't know if we are supposed to be able to print out Augmentation from the PDF before it comes out or not, but if it's not a no-no does anyone know how much Office Depot or Kinko's or some other place charges for it? |
Why wouldn't you be able to print it? It's easily a fair-use of the product. And if the original owner didn't want you to for some reason, I'm pretty sure Acrobat has an option to disable printing in its documents.
Moon-Hawk
Jul 27 2007, 08:09 PM
QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) |
QUOTE (DTFarstar @ Jul 27 2007, 01:47 PM) | I don't know if we are supposed to be able to print out Augmentation from the PDF before it comes out or not, but if it's not a no-no does anyone know how much Office Depot or Kinko's or some other place charges for it? |
Why wouldn't you be able to print it? It's easily a fair-use of the product. And if the original owner didn't want you to for some reason, I'm pretty sure Acrobat has an option to disable printing in its documents.
|
And yet, if you buy the hard copy you're not allowed to scan it into a pdf.
Or so I've been told.
PlatonicPimp
Jul 27 2007, 08:11 PM
At kinkos they gave me some trouble about printing the main book until they saw the "permission to photocopy" on the character sheet. So you may have some issue, or not, depending on who you deal with.
But it isn't actually illegal, I'm sure.
Ol' Scratch
Jul 27 2007, 08:20 PM
QUOTE (Moon-Hawk) |
And yet, if you buy the hard copy you're not allowed to scan it into a pdf. Or so I've been told. |
Sure you are. What you're not allowed to do is distribute it. Making copies for yourself in whatever medium you like is perfectly acceptable no matter what anyone tries to tell you. That's why DRMs and whatnot get so much grief; they prevent people from using the product fairly.
DTFarstar
Jul 27 2007, 08:52 PM
Gah, now the difficult question becomes, buy it now in PDF for 25$ and make my own spiral book for like 40$ or wait about 3 weeks and buy one for 35+tax.....
Chris
deek
Jul 27 2007, 09:01 PM
Being able to lay the book flat is a bonus to me...i'll be opting to buy the cheaper PDF and pay the printing costs...
Demerzel
Jul 27 2007, 09:23 PM
QUOTE (DTFarstar) |
Gah, now the difficult question becomes, buy it now in PDF for 25$ and make my own spiral book for like 40$ or wait about 3 weeks and buy one for 35+tax.....
Chris |
You forgot the best choice:
Go and get a good laser printer for $300 to $600 and print it yourself then pay only for the spiral binding. The Color Laser I have was $1k when I got it but it's equivalent today is like $600, and there are nice options in Monochrome for ~$300...
Rotbart van Dainig
Jul 27 2007, 09:41 PM
BTW... Audio Enhancement (BBB p. 333, cyberware & p. 324, equipment) gives the user not only extra dice, but the ability to hear the higher and lower frequencies out of the normal hearing spectrum. Is the only raison d'être for Increased Sensitivity (Augmention p. 37, cyberware) that it's 500¥ cheaper than the first level of Audio Enhancement?
EDIT: Clarification
Synner
Jul 27 2007, 09:58 PM
Note it has a very significant downside compared to cyber versions. It's not "adjustable", it cannot be turned on or off, dampened or heightened - it leaves you vulnerable (gamemaster's discretion as usual) to loud noises, subsonic noise, etc.
Rotbart van Dainig
Jul 27 2007, 10:09 PM
Errr, not the Bioware - the cyberware from main book that is based on the equipment.
Synner
Jul 27 2007, 10:46 PM
My bad. Yes, Increased Sensitivity allows for part of the functionality of Audio Enhancement (it does not grant dice) for a lower cost.