Full Version: Brainhacking
Hell, I'll buy you a sandwich and a soda.
Ok Question: what happens when you have more than one DNI and or how broken is Ares S-III Super Squirt + Nanopaste trodes in the context of this conversation?
Multiple DNIs are simply that; multiple ways to interact with your electronics directly. It's like having two plugs instead of one.
Not sure what you plan to do with the Super Squirt idea. All you'd be doing is giving your target another means to interact with things. You don't get any connection to them through it. You'd need to, like, suction-cup a commlink with wireless enabled and a skinlink onto their forehead or something in order to do that, assuming they had their own wireless connectivity disabled.
Not sure what you plan to do with the Super Squirt idea. All you'd be doing is giving your target another means to interact with things. You don't get any connection to them through it. You'd need to, like, suction-cup a commlink with wireless enabled and a skinlink onto their forehead or something in order to do that, assuming they had their own wireless connectivity disabled.
You could Super Squirt an adhesive gel containing microscopic RFIDs. Turns the target's skinlinks into wireless links with one squirt. 
You'd have to hit a device with a skinlink on it, wouldn't you? Pretty sure RFIDs don't have them incorporated into them, though they apparently have a Capacity (which seems odd that a "microscopic" item as you described can hold one-third the amount of sensors a dedicated handheld-sized device can).
You'd just have to hit their skin to access their skinlink. And you can add skinlinks to RFIDs.
You certainly don't have to worry about game balance here, even if you were an uberhacker, it'd still be easier to just squirt the guy with poison.
Maybe Palming skill would be useful in getting a skinlinked RFID on the guy without him noticing.
You certainly don't have to worry about game balance here, even if you were an uberhacker, it'd still be easier to just squirt the guy with poison.
Maybe Palming skill would be useful in getting a skinlinked RFID on the guy without him noticing.
I'm more concerned with your assumption that an RFID tag is small enough to be used in that fashion than anything else. And if they are "microscopic," I'd have serious concerns about allowing a Skinlink accessory on them, let alone having a Capacity of 1 which they're clearly described as having.
To me, that means they're the size of a micro-drone. Small, but not that small. And certainly not small enough to shoot out of a Squirt Gun.
To me, that means they're the size of a micro-drone. Small, but not that small. And certainly not small enough to shoot out of a Squirt Gun.
Although I wouldn't allow you to "squirt" a RFID Tag on anyone, I personally don't have a problem with using palming to slip it onto a person. But then again I allow skinlinks to work through normal thin clothing as well so it wouldn't have to be oin contact with actual skin either.
| QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) |
| You'd have to hit a device with a skinlink on it, wouldn't you? Pretty sure RFIDs don't have them incorporated into them, though they apparently have a Capacity (which seems odd that a "microscopic" item as you described can hold one-third the amount of sensors a dedicated handheld-sized device can). |
if it makes you feel any better, the sensors that you can put into an RFID tag are also really short range...
What I'm getting off this thread is that if you have a hotsim module that you control (by hacking theirs or connecting yours) with the range of the signal(0) trodes, your can kick them over into hotsim VR where they can't move, and just get hit with blackout w/o biofeedback until dead or unconscious. While they can test down the damage, they can't dodge the hits or request help so they are instantly disabled and down in 3-6 seconds.
So, the Squirt-Trode Combo could be an easily concealable, subsonic and thus totally silencable. Now the scary part is that if you surprise them they give no dodge, and no resistance to being paralyzed by VR. If you can get 1 hit on the attack roll they are out, period. No drain, concealable, mundane, silent, instant 1 hit KO.
So, the Squirt-Trode Combo could be an easily concealable, subsonic and thus totally silencable. Now the scary part is that if you surprise them they give no dodge, and no resistance to being paralyzed by VR. If you can get 1 hit on the attack roll they are out, period. No drain, concealable, mundane, silent, instant 1 hit KO.
| QUOTE (Ravor) |
| Although I wouldn't allow you to "squirt" a RFID Tag on anyone, I personally don't have a problem with using palming to slip it onto a person. But then again I allow skinlinks to work through normal thin clothing as well so it wouldn't have to be oin contact with actual skin either. |
Currently at work (I work for the largest private employer in the world, eek), the ongoing RFID tagging of freight includes a master pallet system, where items will be scanned as they're placed on it, with the pallet being tracked, to make sure it gets where it should be going and that it'll have the right items on it.
In addition to the RFID tags that you're used to, work is also being done on "Radio Spray", a can of spray paint, basicly, but instead of paint, it'll contain teensy radio transmitting *dust*. These dust motes are coded with the bar code of a specific item, then sprayed on, where they look like, well, dust. They're fully-functioning RFID tags, tho, with a range of a few inches. The problem is that, to have data for all the items that we sell (hundreds of thousands), each would have to have a unique cancode, which is, well, inefficient. So, they want to make the existing tech be reprogrammable in some degree, so that the same can of spray can be used on different items.
The eventual goal is to phase out loss from transport (IE, "It fell off of a truck") and the elimination of 90% of the cash registers. You'll be able to load up your purchases, then walk through an RFID-reading gate, which will read all your stuff, tally it, read your ID tag/RFID-equipped credit card, and bill your account without you ever breaking stride.
...
This is off topic, isn't it?
At ANY rate, I don't think that you can force HotSim, or even ColdSim, on someone unless you have a Chair ™ or other way to strap 'em down while you go on hooking things up. If, for example, Bob the Salaryman has a Rating 2 Commlink with no Sim module, since he just does VR, never uses trodes, and has no Datajack (IE, most of the population), there's just no way to get a potentially deadly VR attack to him. You could load an agent with a Black Hammer into his comm, but it'd just sit there and twiddle thumbs, waiting for the sweet release of VR so it could jump on his eyelids, a day that would never arrive.
Now, if Bob decided to rig a hot Sim Module into his Commlink, he'd be in trouble. Equally he'd be in trouble if you got ticked, tackled him into a van, tied him up, stuck trodes onto his head, plugged in YOUR Hotsim, and set it to "Flame War" but, really, at that point, you might as well just shoot him.
The notion of hackers sitting in their parents' basements, dialing random strangers and dropping a Ritual Sorcery-like bomb on them via HotMod death is ... not a notion that the writers intended, I would think, and would certainly horrify most GMs. "Yeah, Dodger's going to hack in, kill all the security guards by infectnig their helmets with Code Redder, then open the doors for the team." GM sighs.
| QUOTE (WeaverMount) |
| ...with the range of the signal(0) trodes... |
Once again, you could put a million trodes on someone. It's not going to give you control over them. It's going to let them control things, including the trodes themselves (instantly becoming aware of them and instantly having the option to shut down wireless connectivity with a thought).
You need to find some way to add a device to their PAN without them knowing about it and/or hack into it instantaneously without them shutting it down with a thought, which really isn't going to happen.
ok, could you rig a hot sim module that was hardwired always on, always paralyzing hot sim VR, and always running blackout on the users. The blackout style "BTL" might even need to be some kind of firmware. But are those specific mods possible, and could you "give" someone control of that device by applying a new external DNI?
BTW @Wakshaani: this thread ruled out "Ritual-Sorcery Like Bombs" pages ago
BTW @Wakshaani: this thread ruled out "Ritual-Sorcery Like Bombs" pages ago
| QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) |
| You need to find some way to add a device to their PAN without them knowing about it and/or hack into it instantaneously without them shutting it down with a thought, which really isn't going to happen. |
That sounds pretty trivial for a PC level hacker. Taking over PANs is a textbook application of Electronic Warfare and the Exploit program, and they won't know you've done it unless their (system+analyse) beats your (stealth) on the extended test. Same as breaking into any other system. And once you've got admin access you can add as many things as you like.
Slight correction, they won't know that you've hacked their PAN unless they can beat your Stealth OR you start blizting the system by doing stuff like changing program loads, subscribing new devices, ect, you know, all of the kind of things that a Decker would have to do in order to make this trick actually work.
OK, that totally depends on the target's attention and tech savvy. How many computer users today don't relly notice when their system slows down from malware? Or they notice the slowdown a little, but they don't grok why? How many people say, "oh, my operating system is getting old, that's why it's slow, better go buy the newest one" as if code just degraded with time or something? In my game, the target of such a hack would have to make a computer test (1) to notice that their system load has changed, and they'd only get that if some part of their attention was given to the matrix (they'd have to attempt a matrix action.) Sammy Mc-Samurai might not notice in the middle of a firefight, and Suzy Skelec-Atari would probably put the delay down to increased call load or standard systems maintainence.
To each their own, I figure that operating systems have advanced enough along with computer savvy that such a test isn't necessary, I've found that it goes along way to keeping Deckers from ruling the world.
| QUOTE |
| That sounds pretty trivial for a PC level hacker. Taking over PANs is a textbook application of Electronic Warfare and the Exploit program, and they won't know you've done it unless their (system+analyse) beats your (stealth) on the extended test. Same as breaking into any other system. And once you've got admin access you can add as many things as you like. |
While this is true on one level, in the specific case of locking a target into hot sim, there's literally no way to do it without them noticing unless you introduce other factors such as magic or prior post-hypnotic suggestions. That's because the difference between cold and hot sim is like the difference between a warm day and being on fire. Hot sim kicks your sensory level past the red delta line - that's what gives you the boost. They may not know who put them in hot sim, because they didn't make the perception test, but they'll know they're unexpectedly in hot sim.
Like, I may not make a perception test to see who hit me with the flamethrower, but I'll damn well know I'm on fire.
| QUOTE (Dancer) |
| That sounds pretty trivial for a PC level hacker. Taking over PANs is a textbook application of Electronic Warfare and the Exploit program, and they won't know you've done it unless their (system+analyse) beats your (stealth) on the extended test. Same as breaking into any other system. And once you've got admin access you can add as many things as you like. |
No. Taking over a wireless PAN is a textbook case.
Walking up to someone, slapping a skinlinked commlink onto them, having that commlink connect to their PAN, then hacking into that commlink and thus their PAN is nota textbook case. Especially doing so before they realize "hey whoa, I have a new device hooked up."
It'd be like sneaking into someone's house who doesn't have a wireless router. Hooking a wireless router up to their computer. Hacking into their computer on-site. Creating a network with that router. Then running back to your house so you can hack into the network and get some free broadband. All with the guy sitting there watching the whole thing.
[QUOTE=Doctor Funkenstein,Aug 5 2007, 08:17 PM] [QUOTE=Dancer,Aug 5 2007, 08:32 AM]Walking up to someone, slapping a skinlinked commlink onto them, having that commlink connect to their PAN, then hacking into that commlink and thus their PAN is nota textbook case. Especially doing so before they realize "hey whoa, I have a new device hooked up." [/QUOTE]
Why would I do that? They've got a commlink (everybody does), and it's already linked into their (skinlink) PAN. Their commlink has wireless access or its useless, so I wirelessly take it over and route through it to the rest of their PAN, which I also take over, and activate the wireless functionality of. I still need to get a sim module within 3m of them if I want to use hot sim, but that's a lot easier than attaching a commlink to them. And if I don't want to do that there's still some pretty nice (nasty) things I can do with cold sim.
Why would I do that? They've got a commlink (everybody does), and it's already linked into their (skinlink) PAN. Their commlink has wireless access or its useless, so I wirelessly take it over and route through it to the rest of their PAN, which I also take over, and activate the wireless functionality of. I still need to get a sim module within 3m of them if I want to use hot sim, but that's a lot easier than attaching a commlink to them. And if I don't want to do that there's still some pretty nice (nasty) things I can do with cold sim.
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