p. 319 gives them a Device Rating.

Perhaps, but remember that the same bit of fluff that says AR Emotive Tracks are rare also says that the majority of people use a sim-module to hook up to AR because it's the easiest.

No-one really knows for sure, I say that yes you need a sim-module to issue mental commands to your non-impanted gear, others say no. I asked the question in one of the first pages of the "Ask the Authors about AUG" thread, but haven't recieved an OFFICAL answer.

You need both. You need the sim module to translate thought into action through VR and you need the trodes to communicate thoughts to the sim module.

If you don't have trodes, you need AR gloves or feedback clothes to wave your hands in the air to control stuff via AR and a linked glasses/goggles/contacts to see AR and a earbud to hear AR. Feedback clothes also give you some simulated touch sensations (not necessary, but lots of fun on the right sites).

I don't believe you need a sim module to control AR because the errata/FAQ says a spirit can control the matrix via AR.

I'm certain you don't need a sim module to control implanted gear. I'm pretty sure you don't need a sim module to control external gear either: just a DNI device such as datajack or internal commlink and a way to communicate to the external device (such as wireless, skinlink, wirejack).

Speaking off-the-cuff and away from my books, I believe that's correct.

i don't think anyone would *need* sim module other than to access VR, no.

it is, however, a great deal cheaper to just get a sim module than it is to get all the various links separately..

Will a Commlink and sim module allow you to use all the other features of AR without needing anything but the commlink and sim module?... ie no AR gloves or keyboard...

the sim module requires a DNI to work at all.

which means, you don't need the gloves, provided you're going to have a DNI if you're using a sim module to access AR.

if you don't want to use a DNI, you need some kind of senselink (ie image link, sound link, touch link, etc) and some method of controlling (could be AR gloves, could be the commlink's built in hand controls even if you want).

if by "accessing AR" you mean manipulating it, then i would say yes. nothing says you need a sim module to translate brain information to machine information, which (to me) strongly implies that's what the DNI actually does. and i'm fairly certain there's (fluff, admittedly) examples of using a DNI in such a manner without a sim module.

if by "accessing AR" you mean viewing it, then i would have to say that you can't view AR through a DNI without a sim module. thus, the answer to your question would be "that's a moot point, you can't do that"

You don't need a sim module to view AR, as long as you have some other method for displaying the video signals, such as an image link (p. 323, SR4). A commlink and image link sunglasses will show you all the AR visuals you want. Add in some earbuds to the mix and you can hear all the AR you want. Toss in AR gloves with the commlink and you can manipulate AR objects. If the commlink is implanted or if it is connected to a datajack, you can get this data and manipulate it with mental commands (you will still need something to project the data onto, such as visuals to a cybereye or audio to a cyberear, etc.). With the above, you will not be able to get simsense signals in the AR, such as emotive tracks.

Add in a sim module and you can receive and interpret those emotive tracks. In addition, you won't necessarily need to have image links or cyber-senses to project the visual and audio data into, since it can be overlaid directly in the sensory areas of your brain, fooling your meat senses into thinking it is there. In addition, with the sim module you can go full VR, completely replacing your meat senses with false data in your brain, fooling them completely.

How can you be able to manipulate it without being able to viewing it?

I assumed that the person 'viewing' AR would have an Image Link.

I'm still not at all clear about the whole necessity, or even the actual usage of the Sim Module outside of hacking in VR.

edit: But the above post helps quite a bit. Thanks.

actually, iirc AR gloves have some degree of touch link, as do feedback clothing (and let's face it, lots of people are interested in the touch link part, if only for porn...)

however, you are probably right when it comes to temperatures (i am not aware of anything in the clothing that simulates temperature), some touch (probably hard to replicate the effect water, for example), smell, and taste.

sure, but then you wouldn't be viewing it through your DNI, which leaves my original point intact (that is, you can manipulate but not view with only a DNI, if you wish to manipulate and view *through DNI* you need a simsense module)

They probably are not commonly used in everyday online usage. Implanted sim modules are the sign of a hacker, true simphile, or BTL junkie. External sim modules would be popular among people like gamers, who would want them for the latest and greatest VR games, and people who want to be able to experience simsense media content on the go (as opposed to being tied down to a home set-top simdeck).

you're quite right, you couldn't (easily) manipulate it without viewing it. if you have an image link you are viewing it through, you're not viewing it through a DNI, however, you're viewing it through an image link. you could still manipulate it through a DNI, with no need for a sim module.

as for the use of a simsense module outside of full VR, well there's 1, and 1 other that's sorta outside of full VR.

the one that's not quite outside of full VR is for experiencing simsense, such as when you slot a simsense entertainment chip. this is basically the same as full VR, except instead of attaching yourself to the matrix, you attach yourself to a simsense recording.

the one that is fully outside of full VR is that a simsense module can completely replace all the other sense links. no need for image link, sound link, scent link, taste link, touch link, or anything like that. you can smell AR bread. you can feel AR porn. you can taste AR chocolate bars. you can see AR signs. all for a much lower cost than it would otherwise require.

That's not correct. You can manipulate and view through DNI without a sim module. An example that would work would be a commlink connected with a fiber optic cable to a datajack and a set of cybereyes with an image link.

EDIT: Looks like you edited. Ah well!

that's not through DNI. that's through an image link. the fact that it passes through a DNI is irrelevant, it's not the DNI that makes you able to view it, it's the image link that does the work. if you just changed it from being a cable through your datajack to being a wireless signal to the eye, you could still view AR. if you changed that example to through a DNI and straight to your brain, you wouldn't be able to view AR.

And that's even more helpful. Thanks once again.

I've seen this debated quite a bit,but is this actually the case?

edited what? i don't recall editing the post you quoted, and it looks like it's still there... the post you quoted before that is also the original i'm pretty sure (i have a very strong tendency to [edit] tag posts unless it's within about 10 seconds or so of the original, and i'm correcting a spelling or misleading wording that will tend to make it look like i said something different from what i meant...

But that is what I meant, and tried to clarify that fact above. As I said, I assumed that the person would be using some kind of device other than just his brain to view AR with.

yes.

that's from the last paragraph in the 'augmented reality' section.

hmmm... i had intended to mention that you would need an image link or some other similar thing in that scenario... obviously it got left out of that post