I agree that we need a vessel for more unlimited voyages.

The Rivertine is suitable for shallow water operations(White Water), but deep sea operations (Blue Water), no it is not. We really do not want to be "Puddle Pirates"

I think one of the smaller buoy tender type of vessels are be more suited to us.

The yacht type, has more room technically but if will get damage more that a security type of vessel.

Most of the ships/vessels in Cyberpirates are in the multi million nuyen range in price.

We need to figure out what types of operations will we be doing? Straight Up combat, or Sneaky Combat like Q Ships, or an Assault Boat/Drone type of ship?

Remember that any vessel we get/use needs to have manual helm controls besides "Iron Mike" (Autopilot/Navigator) and rigger controls.

For gun mounts, yes we will need some but again they will need a non rigger way of firing them.

WMS

@Narse
There are even more freight hauling types of ships in the Caribbean, a yacht may make us more of a target.

To me in yachts alot of the money is used in building it for the luxuries etc. Technically for the same nuyen, a smaller buoy tender type would give us more value.

WMS

Agreed, however, I don't want to be the one to stat one of those. Thats the primary reason (I think) that we're looking at yahcts

We could just start with a yacht. Work our way on to bigger and better things.

If we are going with a yacht the H & W Classique has more room for passenger and more cargo capacity.

WMS

Fuel:

Ugh...Squid vets! How much fuel are we talking about to fill the tanks on the size of ship we're thinking of?

And hell, what kind of fuel are we talking about in the 2070s? JP-8? Diesel? Mogas? Hydrogen fuel cells? Cyberpirates gives no clue.

Rigger 3 has the stats for fuel

H & W Classique at 500 liters of diesel economy at 2 km/liter, 1000 km range
M.T. Dolphin at 200 liters of diesel economy at 3 km/liter, 600 km range

Cargo
H & W Classique 120[210PS]
M.T. Dolphin 9[21-PS]

PS is cargo space in support of passengers IIRC.

WMS

I have loaded The Shop, a Rigger 2 vehicle design program I can make several designs?

Converting the designs will not be much of an issue.

WMS

Okay, my gut instinct is:

Obviously, fuel costs will vary based on where you buy. Duh.

But for argument's sake, I'm going to say a liter of Diesel fuel is 5, at least at game start. (The cost may go up if there are difficulties in fuel supplies at a particular port, or if the market price goes up for other more global reasons.) The economy is for cruising speed. I plan on playing fast and loose with numbers, so we'll call cruising speed 2/3 of maximum operating speed, with 20% over that possible if you redline the engines (which will damage them!), at a cost of +50% fuel consumption....plus the engine damage. Lower speeds = less fuel usage, of course.

I don't know how compatible R2 is with R3, let alone SR4.

I can have a Rigger 3 version of the Yacht with several power plant options by tomorrow.

Power Plants are

Diesel
Jet
Gasoline

any preference?

WMS

...Can a jet engine even work with a ship?

Edit: Never mind. Yes, it can. Water jets. However, they have a problem which would be...particularly acute in the Caribbean: They get clogged by seaweed.

@Penta
On board ships they are called gas turbines, my destroyers had them, it just means you have a large reduction gear to the prop.

The Abrams Main Battle Tank has a gas turbine engine in it.

WMS

Oh, yeah. Gas turbines. Ooops. Me slooowww tonight.

I can't see why, necessarily, a GT would be used in a ship so small not designed for combat, given the maintenance issues (and the severe lack of fuel economy), but if you want to design such...*shrug*

Sounds good so far How about a directional Jammer. Some one metioneded it ealier. Might be a good idea

Diesel just cus i like the noise.

I will build it with minimal features like sensor and etc. The costs from Rigger 3 to SR 4 are different lets say.

Right now in SR a yacht can have 6 or more pintle or ring mounts for weapons. In SR4 there are no turret weapon mounts which could be rigger controlled. So the yacht could be rigger enabled for piloting the boat, but rigger controlled weapons is not a possibility at this time.

@D Minor
I much prefer the sound of a Gas Turbine.

WMS

The deisel used to lull me to sleep. Took acouple of days to sleep properly after i got off the boat. All that white noise yum

Group Account Operational Debt
170,000 - MT Sea Nymph (Yacht) -3 10/20 45 2 18 6 1 170,000¥ or equivalent
Or
102,400 - Marine Technologies Dolphin II (Yacht) -2 10/20 45 4 18 6 1 102,400
(M.T. Dolphin at 200 liters of diesel economy at 3 km/liter, 600 km range)
Or
(Price?) - Millions of Nuyen Freighter
Or
(Price?) - H & W Classique (Yacht) at 500 liters of diesel economy at 2 km/liter, 1000 km range

2,500 - Rigger Adapted
15,000 - 6 X Weapon Mounts
4,000 - Response 5 (Do we want to buy pilot and autosofts as well?)
12,500 - Pilot R5
1,000 - Signal R5
3,000 - Firewall R6
1,000 - 2 X Satellite Link

Fuel 5 nuyen per liter, Months supply of operational fuel ~ 200 X 30 = 6000 * 5 = 30,000, which we can't carry, but gives you the scale of a heavy operational budget

How much do extended range tanks cost?

30,600 - Surfstar Marine Seacop (Skiff) +2 10/20 90 2 8 8 1 30,600

20,000 - 2 Water Sports/Jet Skis (Can carry 2 each) ~ 10,000
- 1 small Inflatable Dinghy (Can carry 4) ~ Unknown
4,000 - Basic food and water for at least 4 weeks (Squatter X 8 lifestyle for a baseline cost)
500 - Nautical Mechanic Kit
600 - Medkit
1,100 - One month Weather service subscription
300 - 10 X rating 6 Mapsofts
300ea - Tripod
2000ea - Smart Firing Platform

I believe these are all our options mentioned so far.

Regarding the ship costs, since we are on the hook for the cost of the vessel and are paying it off at the rate of a couple thousand nuyen per tip, I am a little more in tune with a yacht for a couple hundred thousand then a freighter for millions.

I agree with hundred thousand(s) as opposed to millions.
-------
(As noted earlier) If the ship comes with a R4 autopilot, the R5 is not worth the cost and the money could be better spent elsewhere.

To that end, I would like to propose a couple of drones.
2,600 Renraku Stormcloud (Blimp): This gives us an eye in the sky that can stay there for days.
1,000 Upgrade to Signal R5
100 Vision Magnification
400 Vsion Enhancement R3
100 Low-light
600 Clearsigt R3
-----
4,800

2,000 MCT-Nissan Roto-Drone: Rotary Air Support
100 Vision Magnification
100 Thermographics
2,500 Weapon Mount
1,700 Ares Alpha [SG, 2pt Recoil, gl]
10 2x clips
840 84 rounds EX-EX Ammo
420 12 Frag Grenades
600 Targeting-heavy weapons R3
600 Targeting-automatics R3
600 Defense R3
------
9,470

A few simple aquatic drones would be nice as well. There are none listed in any of the books but give the pricing of other drones a price of 1,500-2,500 seems reasonable for one. Load them up with Clearsight R3 (600) and Maneuver R3 (600) and the price is somewhere around 2,700 - 3,700 each.

I would propose two aquatic drones.

Total cost of drones somewhere ~21,000 (depending upon final call from Penta on Aquatic drones)

@Penta
What would be the base price for an aquatic drone (2' long) with a movement rate of 15m per turn?

Redjack, you are proposing the drones go onto the group account? Which is ok by me, just want to clarify. I would expect that the rigger characters probably had some personal drones.

Okay, regarding char sheets...

My life is doing Interesting Things right now. I'm okay, but...RL is being fun. Soooo....

Yeah, screw that deadline. I'm going to be good, and bump it to 0001 FRIDAY. However, I am unlikely to extend it any farther.

Char sheets I have, an (L) indicating Locked In, that the character, while still open before the deadline for whatever amendments the player may want to make, is done and accepted by me at the moment:
Radjack as Johnny Rocket (L) - First submission prize. He actually jumped the gun a bit.
WearzManySkins as Gunner Blythe (L) - This was THE EXAMPLE of a good background. Maybe not super-detailed, but it just worked.
DireRadiant as Litany (L) - Those corrections you wanted are approved, just get the amended charsheet to me.
GKnoy as Carlos Rodriguez - I need your finished char sheet, as we discussed over email, then you're all set.

Char sheets I do NOT have. In fact, I don't have hide or hair of anything in my email from these folks, that I can tell:
BishopMcQ
Tarantula
D Minor

C'mon, you three.

Oh, also...Guys, on a personal note. IRL, this has been an enormously sucky few days for me; this planning has been a mental release of the highest order. I may as well explain:

I only know my GF online, we've never met IRL. She's a few years younger than me (but legal in all jurisdictions, thank you! I checked! ). Like me, she has depression...And, oh yeah. Despite the fact we've known each other for 2 years, and her lil sister knows me and seems to be okay with me, and her best friend IRL, and her therapist...Her parents don't know about my existence. Until tonight. Because GF had a depressive episode Monday, Much Insanity Ensued, and it was all because I nudged a bit too hard on her doing stuff to help herself.

Her weak, weak explanations (well, okay, absurdly flimsy lies) as to why she was depressed Monday are something she needs to get in front of, so GF is going to admit my existence to her dad tonight, while w/ therapist. It should go well, I think and I hope...But, in life as in SR, there are no guarantees, so I'd appreciate your thoughts and prayers, that God and His Angels might tip the scales in my favor.

If all goes well, expect a somewhat giving GM for a bit.

More actually related to the game in next post.

That does bring another question... Do we need to buy a lifestyle since we are moving onto a ship?

Okay, guys:

Drones: There are no aquatic drones as yet listed for SR4, it seems. I really, really do not want to create homebuilt gear. Hopefully Arsenal will give us some; until then, nope. Aerial drones, keep in mind that a yacht has -very little- exposed deckspace that you could launch one from if it uses anything but VTOL - and VTOL jets would wreck the deck of the ship, and possibly the structure. I have no idea how BIG the blimp mentioned is, otherwise it would seem to work.

Shipboard weapons: I'm going to create a house-rule, to be superseded by whatever Arsenal comes up with: Weapons mounted on a ship MAY be rigger-controlled...BUT the gear required adds to the space taken up by the weapon (if SR4 deals with that yet? I dunno, too weary to check), and adds 20% to the price of the mounting for UNGUIDED weapons (up to MMGs) that don't transmit any data back to the controller. Guided weapons like missiles and rockets (which you don't HAVE yet) would take extra gear that add another 20% to the cost. For the record, these are hardwired links: sufficient damage to the ship's data and electrical systems may knock them out.

Extended-range tanks: You have to actually build them into the ship's structure. As such, at the moment they're not an option. Sowwy.

Other stuff: Any yacht you buy will be at least designed so that one could conduct SCUBA diving from the vessel, but only while it's stopped (for obvious reasons).

Dive gear is intended to go in the group account: Yeah, that means if everybody wants to be divable, you gotta have enough gear for everybody to dive with.

So too, is anything else that might conceivably be a group thing: Ship-mounted weapons and ammo for same, mods and other gear for the ship, food, fuel, and water, etc. Drones you have the option: They can be personal, which means they don't count against the group account - but they also strictly fall under the chargen avail rules, in a way group account stuff is (just barely) more flexible.

Also: For getting his Char sheet in FIRST, Johnny Rocket gets 1 karma. For a background that just rocked, Gunner Blythe gets 2 karma. You keep track of your own karma, folks.

Lifestyle: Up to you.

If you live on ship at all times, you live in a really cramped space - even most yachts aren't particularly spacious.

That said, an unmodified yacht has Middle Lifestyle "features", I suppose you could say. (Things like food and water will be determined by your own purchases: Nutrisoy for low lifestyle is cheap with minimal flavorings, costing maybe cents for a day's worth; 14 days provisions costs maybe 1000 for a group of 10 people with ordinary eating rates. Middle lifestyle, you get nutrisoy, but it's with every flavor assortment you can imagine, and you also get fresh fruits and veggies, though the cost is closer to 2500. High, it's fresh fruits, a limited supply of real meat, and real alcohol, costing closer to 5000. Keep in mind that, while the USN is "dry" mostly because of the long-ago Prohibitionist motives of Josephus Daniels, there are good reasons why you don't want alcohol aboard ship.)

I'll be happy to adjust those costs, they're really back-of-the-envelope.

Just thought I'd point out that it isn't a house-rule to allow weapons on vehicular weapon mounts to be rigger controlled. I'll have my background/sheet into you in shortly.

Group Account Operational Debt
170,000 - MT Sea Nymph (Yacht) -3 10/20 45 2 18 6 1 170,000¥ or equivalent
Or
102,400 - Marine Technologies Dolphin II (Yacht) -2 10/20 45 4 18 6 1 102,400
(M.T. Dolphin at 200 liters of diesel economy at 3 km/liter, 600 km range)
Or
(Price?) - Millions of Nuyen Freighter
Or
(Price?) - H & W Classique (Yacht) at 500 liters of diesel economy at 2 km/liter, 1000 km range

2,500 - Rigger Adapted
15,000 - 6 X Weapon Mounts
4,000 - Response 5 (Do we want to buy pilot and autosofts as well?)
12,500 - Pilot R5
1,000 - Signal R5
3,000 - Firewall R6
1,000 - 2 X Satellite Link

Fuel 5 nuyen per liter, Months supply of operational fuel ~ 200 X 30 = 6000 * 5 = 30,000, which we can't carry, but gives you the scale of a heavy operational budget

How much do extended range tanks cost?

30,600 - Surfstar Marine Seacop (Skiff) +2 10/20 90 2 8 8 1 30,600

20,000 - 2 Water Sports/Jet Skis (Can carry 2 each) ~ 10,000
- 1 small Inflatable Dinghy (Can carry 4) ~ Unknown
4,000 - Basic food and water for at least 4 weeks (Squatter X 8 lifestyle for a baseline cost)
500 - Nautical Mechanic Kit
600 - Medkit
1,100 - One month Weather service subscription
300 - 10 X rating 6 Mapsofts
300ea - Tripod
2000ea - Smart Firing Platform

2,600 Renraku Stormcloud (Blimp): This gives us an eye in the sky that can stay there for days.
1,000 Upgrade to Signal R5
100 Vision Magnification
400 Vsion Enhancement R3
100 Low-light
600 Clearsigt R3
-----
4,800

2,000 MCT-Nissan Roto-Drone: Rotary Air Support
100 Vision Magnification
100 Thermographics
2,500 Weapon Mount
1,700 Ares Alpha [SG, 2pt Recoil, gl]
10 2x clips
840 84 rounds EX-EX Ammo
420 12 Frag Grenades
600 Targeting-heavy weapons R3
600 Targeting-automatics R3
600 Defense R3
------
9,470

-----------------Damage--AP----Availability----Cost
Speargun------6P-------=-1=---6---------------800/5
--AP-------------9P-------=-2=---8---------------10
Heavy Crossbow Ranges

Underwater firing weapons
----------------------------------Damage--AP---Mode---RC---Ammo--Availability--Cost
Colt M24A3 Water Carbine---5P------=-1---SA/BF-=-=--30[c]----10-----------1,000
uses SMG ranges
FN-AAL Gyro Jet Pistol--------6P-------=-1---SA-----=-=--10[c]----8--------------600
AP and HE ammo available, uses heavy pistol ranges

---------------------------------------------------Cost------Avail
Ink grenade-------------------------------------40---------6
Breathing Regulator----------------------------720--------4
Buoyancy Compensator and Weight Belt--475-------4
Face Mask and Snorkel-----------------------120-------4
Fins-----------------------------------------------90--------4
Scuba Tank (75 minutes each)--------------3,000-----4
Wet Suit----------------------------------------290-------4
Drysuit-----------------------------------------1,500-----5
Diving Armor (B4 I2 armor)-----------------1,750-----6
Dual Tank Manifold System (hold 2 tanks)-200-------4
Full Face Mask---------------------------------360-------5
Enclosed Breathing Helmet-------------------960-------6
OXSYS Artificial Gill-----------------------------3,250-----4
JIM Diving Exoskeleton (Armor Rating 6)--25,000-----8*
+5000 per point of enhancement
Str is 7 can be increased to a 10 at the costs above, has a -2 mod to reaction and agility, gets only 1 IP, can be rigged which removes the penalties. Rigger gets his rigger initiative, and dice
Liquid Breathing Apparatus-------------------50,000----11*
Will need a Simrig or a Datajack to communicate due to lungs are filled with liquid and Commlink modded for water operation.

*GM approval is needed.

Wet Suit SCUBA sets:
720 - Breathing Regulator
425 - Buoyancy Compensator and Weight Belt
120 - Face Mask and Snorkel
90 - Fins
6000 - 2 X Scuba Tank
290 - Wet Suit
200 - Dual Tank Manifold System
1000 - Colt M24A3 Water Carbine
600 - FN-AAL Gyro Jet Pistol
= 9445 ea

Everything's been sent. Let me know if you don't get it.

H & W Classique (Yacht) = 170,150 by the conversion in the Spreadsheet for Rigger 3 to SR4.

Where are we going to be hanging all those small craft at?

And all of the drones?

WMS

Don't we have any sort of cargo for the drones?

WMS thinks alike to me re all these small craft....Guys, this is a Yacht, not an amphibious assault ship. More than storage, how the hell d'you intend to deploy these things?

Bishop: I do not see it.

I was thinking something like this:Here
From http://www.yachtingmagazine.com/yachting/b...1616892,00.html article. Its a 105ft (30m) yacht. As you can see though, it has the ability to carry (and I assume launch) 2 small craft from it.

From Rigger 3

Rotodrone/StormCloud takes up 13.5 CF just storage or in a Drone Rack
OpticX takes up 6 CF
FlySpy takes up 1.5 CF

Well we could just put a flight deck on top of the yacht. Most of the drones will have to be VTOL or better.

Most of those small craft will take up there body rating in CF.

The Dolphin II has 9 CF of cargo space left
The Classique has 120 CF of cargo space left.

I will put a Rigger 3 yacht with it stripped of all the luxuries, It should have around 300 CF of cargo but it will not be 100k. Adding extra CF for cargo gets expensive fast.

What lift rating does the crane have to be?

What are the bodies of those small craft?

WMS

WMS: I have no idea...

Idea from Rigger 3 some quality factors for vehicles/ships

Custom Job -.2 double parts costs and installation times

Used -.6 has from 1 to 6 secret flaws

Using these two quality factors can reduce the cost by 80%.

Any thoughts on this?

WMS

No thanks. Let's keep things simple.

Gremlins 1
Yacht
Body 8 SR 4 Value 16
Handling 2/0 SR 4 Value 3/3
Armor 1 SR 4 Value 4
AutoNav/Pilot 1/1
Sonar/Sensor 1/1
Seating 2
Entry Points 5d
Jet Turbine Engine
Speed 90/110 SR 4 Value same
Acceleration 8 SR 4 Value 15/25
Fuel 700
Economy 3 km/l
Range 2400 km
Acceleration Increase
Extra Entry Points 4
Fuel Tank Enlargement
Handling Improvement 1
Speed Increase
Crew 10 Basic Ammenties
Improved Control Surfaces (Water)
Armor Vehicle 1
Secondary Controls
Drone Rack 40 CF
Vehicle Bay 100 CF
Hydrofoil's
Cargo Space 222 CF
Costs 286,442

Here is a first run. things can be removed to lower costs.

I can also post the costs of adding weapons mounts like turrets etc.

WMS

Penta--I forwarded the e-mail to you again.

@DireRadiant

H&W Classique = MT Sea Nymph

My character has a Nautical Mechanic Kit (heck he has all 7 different kits [bulid/repair that is, no medkit])

@Redjack
About the rotor drone:
Ares Alpha is a good weapon. But I disagree w/ the choice of Ex-Ex ammo. 10 per round on a full auto weapon is too much for a +1DV -1AP mod. Go regular and upgrade to APDS later. Also maybe buy some HE grenades for it as well, that way it can more easily damage a ship directly. The very important accesory we should add to the Alpha is an airburst link. Furthermore I believe in the case of weapons (such as the alpha) that have component weapons (i.e. the underbarrel grenade launcher) you can fire the component w/ the same skill, and therefore only the automatics autosoft is necessary.

@Penta
Um, you listed my character as being recieved (Carlos Rodriguez) but you attributed it to gknoy. I haven't received any email from you as of now.

@Narse
"H&W Classique=MT Sea Nymph" Damn teach me not to read the fine print descriptions.
It has 12 passenger staterooms, 6 crew staterooms, and 3 room owner unit.
It has a cargo capacity of 120 CF

Retrofitting out the 12 passenger and the 3 room owner suite, and the 6 crew staterooms.

12 staterooms at High amenities saves 144 CF and 580 design points
6 Crew staterooms at Basic amenities saves 72 CF and 240 design points
3 room owners unit at High amenities saves 36 CF and 120 design points.
Savings in CF=252, in design points 940.

People Space uses 210 CF

Basic amenities are basically low lifestyle but needs People Space
Partial amenities are like being on a airplane, does not need People Space

10 Basic Amenities cost 120 CF and 400 design points
10 Partial Amenities cost 60 CF and 200 design points but does not need People Space which saves 210 CF.

Drones take up (body*1.5)*body in CF to store or put in drone racks

Smaller vessels use their body rating in CF.

Gun mounts/turrets also take up CF's

Each 100 design points not spent, saves 11,000 nuyen.

Which way do we wish to go?

WMS

Does the Ares Alpha mounted in the drone have the airburst link for its grenade launcher?

WMS