@WMS

WOW, didn't realize how big the yacht was. I think that we will be good w/ 8 rooms for crew w/ basic amenites (unless each room can house more than 1 character, you know like in bunks). That leaves a lot of extra space. Besides having space for weapons and drones/vehicles, I'd like to see some space that could be used to set up a Nautical Mechanic Shop (it can fit in the back of a van...).

Just my 2 . It will be good to see what others have to say.

@Narse

Shops by Rigger 3 take up 52 CF
Vehicle Facilities take up 500 CF

If he does not have the airburst link install pregame it can be installed during the game.

Mini-turret uses 6 CF and can mount HMG or less
Small-turret uses 7 cf and can mount assault cannons or Autocannons or less.

Remote mini-turrets use 3 CF
Remote small-turret uses 4 CF

Pop Up turrets use twice the CF and mount smaller weapons.

Turrets will have to be approved by GM first. We may have to install them once the game has begun.

@Penta Done by thursday promise. Just a little busy

I'm willing to approve a maximum of 2 turrets, one fore and one aft, for right now.

Thanks for the good wishes re the GF, all. Turns out...She didn't have a chance to broach the subject...Though dad now suspects some things, he's respecting her privacy and not poking. So I stay in limbo.

You just get a normal GM, then.

Narse: No...Johnny Rocket is done, I think?

I think I mean Kyle Van der Groot, Gabriel Knoy's char.

D Minor: Today is thursday, man. Busy is okay.

Cat w/Copter

Check out the internal diagrams.

A bit of advice: Catamarans are many things. They are wonderful craft.

However, they are not necessarily noted for seakeeping ability in open water, and they turn like pigs.

You should see how fast I can flip my Hobie. It turns over very quickly.

Of course then it's hard to get anywhere upside down.

Oh, sorry. I did get it. I see no problems with it, and approve of it.

Just to update:

Char sheets (including histories) I have, an (L) indicating Locked In, that the character, while still open before the deadline for whatever amendments the player may want to make, is done and accepted by me at the moment:
Radjack as Johnny Rocket (L) - First submission prize. He actually jumped the gun a bit.
WearzManySkins as Gunner Blythe (L) - This was THE EXAMPLE of a good background. Maybe not super-detailed, but it just worked.
DireRadiant as Litany (L) - Those corrections you wanted are approved, just get the amended charsheet to me.
Narse as Carlos Rodriguez (L)
GKnoy (Gabriel Knoy) as Kyle DeGroot - Need your finished sheet with gear and stuff.
BishopMcQ as Franklin - FINALLY got your sheet and BG! No idea why GMail didn't like you. See my comments in reply to your email.

Char sheets I do NOT have, or that I felt I had to hand back for severe revision:
Tarantula
D Minor

@Penta

Ok two turrets approved, how about two ring mounts amidships port and starboard?

Also ammo bins for the weapon mounts? ie on site storage of ammunition for the weapon mounts, greater ammunition stored, but takes longer to restock some.

Recommend we install two mini turrets with at least MMG, HMG if we can get them.

If we make the mini-turrets remote, we need to install a local control switch, so they can be locally controlled. Yes I know we have riggers who want to use them remotely but if something happens or the riggers have too many things to do, ie fly drones, pilot ship, etc, those turrets need to be used directly.

WMS

Riggers can "pilot ship" while they man the guns. Its only when they need to spend actions for fancy maneuvering that they run out for shooting with the guns.

Ammo bins: Okay, but be aware, there's a reason why naval ships have magazines separate from the guns...

Ring mounts: Okay, but no remote control on em.

@Tarantula
Yes but I would much prefer the Helm Rigger to be manning the Helm in combat. Tricky Maneuvers may not give the Helm Rigger much time to switch from jumped in remote gun turret.

At sea in most cases the boat/ship needs to be performed evasive maneuver like Full Defense during combat. This boat does is not built to take alot of damage, so keeping her from being damage needs to be a priority in combat.

Yes a second or third rigger ie Gunnery Riggers can work the turrets while the Helm Rigger is occupied.

@Penta
Do we need to supply the guns that go inside the turrets or will they be in the operational budget? If in the operational budget does the availability rating of 12 still cap such purchases?

Also the max availability signal/sensor range is 4 km at a rating 5,using SR4. 4 Km as sea is nothing but eyeball visual range.

WMS

Ammo bins are for the "Ready Ammo" for the gun mount. Besides the fire elemental would have greater effect materializing in the fuel tanks.

If the ammo bin is inside the turret, ie no direct LOS can a fire elemental materialize inside it?

Also the summoner may pay a price/penalty for summoning a fire elemental at sea.

WMS

WMS, vehicle drivers can take a full defense action to add their vehicle skill to the dicepool for defense. So yeah, one rigger driving (likely me) and the others manning guns would be fine. Or we could give the drone an order shoot that boat with this gun, and it could do that while I drive it.

As a side note, I've already purchased a nautical mechanic shop. So long as we have space to set it up.

@Tarantula
IIRC Narse has bought a naval mechanics shop also? Shops take up 52 CF.

WMS

Penta, I sent you revised stuff, let me know if you don't get it.

WMS:

I've been trying to be subtle here, but I'll be clearer:

Quit trying to arm a yacht like it's an Arleigh Burke-class, or even a cutter, especially straight out of chargen.

WTF do you guys think I'm going to send you against to start off, the Aztlan Navy?

You don't need to be heavily armed just yet. I can scale the opposition to your capabilities on the sea fairly easily.

I'm going to retract a previous ruling, BTW...No ring mounts. You may, that said, have pintle mounts amidships. (I looked at the ring mount desc and suddenly realized how...unwise a ring-mount weapon would be in such a position.) No weapons higher than MMGs, which will come out of the ship's account. Ammunition, just this once, will have no avail restrictions for ship mounted weapons only.

Sensors: Oi. You can obviously tell that SR4 doesn't contemplate seaborne combat just yet.

I'm going to rule it like this: When you are ashore or in restricted spaces (harbors, mostly), sensors have ranges equal to SR4's notes for their Signal rating. In open water, it's doubled, up to the horizon (~30km).

Tarantula: Got your mail.

WMS: You're doomed. At least ONE of your comrades has taken the Gremlins flaw....

Litany is now locked in.

@Penta
I am Sorry.

Ok in the turrets will there be any recoil compension built into the turret? Since the description in SR4 says gun mounts can have 250 rnds, I can hope that is the same for a turret.

As for the one with Gremlins, np as long as they can fix what they break. We can always tow him/her behind us in a inflatable life raft.

I am guessing that the turrets will be pop up turrets?

Weapon distribution, I am guessing a MMG's fore and aft? LMG's amidships?

Ammo storage ie Armory a 0.2 CF will store 2,000 rnds of LMG or smaller, 200 rnds of MMG or HMG, 20 rounds of grenade launcher/assault cannon?

Do we need a medical shop? ie Sick Bay?Medical Shops have a rating 8.

Question do the Shops come out of player pregame nuyen or operational budget?

@Narse
Opps my gaff on the shop.

WMS

Don't worry, the blood mages are not going to be coming out to play...For a good long while, at the very least.

WMS: Armory/arms room sounds about right. Also remember: It should be able to hold all the -other- shooty things you're gonna want with you, including small arms. Randomly distributing weapons or just carrying them with you everywhere aboard ship...Well, one pitching deck, one gun not-safed that's just being carried around...

Shops: If you have the space and the desire, get em. *shrug* Keep in mind that a med shop would only include "work areas", not necessarily recovery/isolation areas.

Group account: Yeah, shops sound like a valid use of em.

Final update:

It is now Friday @ 0100 EDT.

I have something from everybody except D Minor. Meep meep, D? Some people dun have their sheets finalized, but that's okay.

I figure its worth noting, I assumed the drone would be the workhorse for combat. Why? It hides inside the ship while not out, its smaller, faster, and more maneuverable, and, we don't exactly want to be risking our ship in combat. As such, I think I should at least throw up what my sport cruiser drone has on it, and make my recomendations for what the yacht should get.

My drone:SC Otter
Rigger Adaptation
Weapon Mountx2
Ingram White Knight
Smartlink
ArmTech MGL-12
Smartlink
Airburst Link
Pilot 4
ECCM 4
500 ammo, EX
50, HE Grenades

My recomendations for the yacht:
1-3 weapon mounts, grapple gun on one, if not two of them. Maybe one forward grapple, and one starboard/port. Decent pilot skill. Give the pilot a maneuver soft, so it can go full defense and roll pilot +/- handling + maneuver.

Grapple guns are legal, and can be used to hook up for boarding actions. Plans for my drone were to use its machine gun for mainly suppressive fire, and the grenade launcher for disabling attacks on boats propulsion. Our boat is there to provide overwatch (via people with handheld weaponry) and looting/boarding parties.

Sniper rifles would probably not be a bad idea considering the ranges we're dealing with, nor would melee weaponry for boarding actions. Also, we need to consider the possibility of having to dive for our loot if we should happen to sink a ship instead of merely disable and capture one. Cuda can dive fairly well, I don't know about the rest of you.

Anyone else w/thoughts or comments?

By magical support, if you mean the ability to get your ass out of a sling and back to fighting, you're covered. If you mean facing magical threats, look elsewhere.

@Tarantula
Grapple guns? you have seen too many sailing ship movies.

Physics of it say no, unless the target vessels is stationary or the size of a dingy the grapple will break off or the mount for the grappled gun will pull out, or the cable snaps which has all kinds of nice things to go along with it.

Oh but wait what about the winch to reel in the ship?

If the target is stationary we can board by several means, small boats etc.

This yacht is too big to sneak anywhere, Q ship maybe.

As for the boat drone.....will it just cruise around behind or ahead of us? When it gets shot to hell, we fix it how? tool kits? or bring it into the shop on board?

It is also designed for white water operation not blue water operations.

Hide it inside the ship? does it just drive in? and just back out?

Do we install a well deck and just flood it when time to load or unload?

Install a ramp into a dry area and it just speeds its way in? Now about getting it out?

The Otter is a cruiser class of boat 10 to 20 meters in length our yacht is 30 to 40 meters in length.

Hand held weapons on a moving ship shooting at another moving ship? The minuses to the dice will be large.

Shooting from a turret or a pintle mount will give the firer in the case of the turret the boats body and armor to resist, and the pintle mount at least some cover. IIRC this ship is not designed with lots of open deck space.

Only have "Iron Mike"(ie software) sail us into battle? You must want to find out close the nearest land is? ie straight down.

We will need a Helm Rigger to go into battle. Iron Mike does not cut it. I have no issue with a unmanned drone going into harms way, but a drone carrying us into harms way, I have issues with that.

Using a grenade launcher to disable the targets propulsion? hmmm let me think most of it is below or near the water line, yes lets go putting holes in there.

Possibilities

Plant charges on the target via scuba etc, wait until the target is out to sea, detonate charges, dive down to get the loot.

Act as a Q-Ship hoping to lure a target in.

If the target is moored or anchored we scuba sneak on board.

Get a aeral drone above and over the target, shoot into the engine using a sniper rifle. Smaller hole less, water to come than from a hole blasted by a grenade going off.

The yacht we are getting has a 10 man life raft more than likely inflatable,more than likely stored on ondeck in a conister/container. It would have a manual release or depth release when the container gets below a certain depth of water.

Yes mine can dive and use melee weapons but not what he prefers.

WMS

Ok a list of sorts

We need to decide what types of missions we wish to engage in,
Straight up battles?
Q-Ship?
Intrigue types?
Underwater sneaking?
Swimming sneaking?
Small boat assault?
Air drone assault
Stealing cargoes from other illegals ie smugglers etc?

We have 8 crew so 8 basic amenities basic is like a low lifestyle ie coffin motel,,,kinda like the ones I had on board ship.

Do we want any shops on board ie Nautical Mechanics, Medical etc?

Do we want weapons mounted?

What types of weapons and where should reflect the mission we are trying to accomplish.

GM has allowed max of two turrets fore and aft, and 2 amid ships pintle mounts, port and starboard.

Do we want a place to store arms and ammunitions?

Have many air drones do we wish to carry and do we wish to have a drone rack?

How many smaller craft do we wish to carry and where? Skiff class or smaller.

WMS

In terms of missions: Whatever you want, I can dish out. However, go back and look at the Johnson's intro.

You may end up doing many of the above, perhaps mixed and matched and put into a blender to come out as some weird looking goo. Perhaps the only one I can explicitly say you are unlikely to do is a mission to destroy all X craft in sight - that's the navy's job. You're being issued your LoM -covertly-. You are commerce raiders, perhaps able to attack small warships. You are an intelligence-gathering asset. You might undertake other sorts of "Special Missions", too. You are not a warship - if the Commander in Chief needed that, he would issue orders to CDRLANTFLT, not to the holders of a Letter of Marque.

Tarantula: A Sport Cruiser is just a hint smaller than a yacht. It's like those boats you charter to go deep-sea fishing for a day. You can't make those unmanned drones. (Pardon: You could. But...no...That's just CHEESY.)

I haven't noticed much discussion about buying and equipping jammers.

For the record: I am going to make the following assumptions about this ship:

1. It's at least 100 feet in length, and a monohull vessel.

2. It is not a warship, nor built to naval specs. It's a yacht, built to commercial specs. You can modify it, of course, but it's built to commercial specs.

3. At base, this yacht will have 10 Improved Living Amenities - Yeah, you read that right. This does not account for provisions, but just what "comes with the ship". If you want to rip those out and downgrade them, that's your choice.

4. Otherwise...It's going to start as a yacht. If WMS or others have an SR4-compliant design for said yacht they want to send me by email today, that's okay. I'll post it on the OOC thread under spoiler codes to reduce spam, and that will be the base from which to work with for any and all modifications.

5. See the pics of the boats in the 100'+ Power section of the site for the Catamaran DireRadiant posted. See the thingy at the stern where the boat and the jetski are? I checked around the site, looks like most ships, except the catamarans have em. Soooo, you do too. They're hydraulic lifts, I think. Can also be used for diver deployment (I checked with the builder). Also: According to builder, where ships are shown as having helos, they can actually have them stationed aboard. (Exposed to the elements, though.) I don't see the ship under discussion here as having THAT kind of space, but you can do the same for drones, and may be able to create a hangar/maintenance bay space for em. Just be advised - it'd be unsafe to have anybody on deck while those things are launching or landing and do not have their rotors spun down.

Finally: My AIM is Demon Penta 2 without the spaces. Feel free to knock.

Okay, status report.

As of Friday 10/12/07 @ 1600 EDT:

Currently, the following people have charsheets approved and locked in.

BishopMcQ
WMS
DireRadiant
GKnoy
Tarantula
Narse
Radjack

D Minor: I got nothin from you. C'mon, if you're in, get me SOMETHING.

Anyhow...Yes.

By Sunday @ 0900 EDT, I want to see the ship. A consensus version of the ship, including all weapons, ammo, drones, shops, etc etc etc.

Also: Anything you want paid for by the employer - which will be owned by the group.

At the same time, come Sunday, I want someone to have a history -for the ship itself-. Including the basics like name, flag, and port of registry. Ships get names for a reason - they have personalities of sorts, too. In a campaign like this, the ship is going to be almost as important a character as any NPC.

Last but not least: I need a crew roster, associating characters to positions. Try to pick a captain somehow, too.

Not particularly associated, but related: One person, and only one, must be the registered "Master" of the vessel. Legally, they have responsibility for whatever happens aboard it. They also need a license from the Coast Guard, which will be provided gratis if they can show the skills. Of course, they ALSO need a SIN.

I'm going to be cranky on deadlines now.

What skills are needed for the Masters License?

Any volunteers?

What slots is the ship supposed to have, the obvious one I know about is whomever is driving, and we always need someone on shift.

Cuda will be primary helmsman. To whoever is designing the ship, make sure you put in rigger adaptation.

Update on Cuda's drone: Changed to a sea sled underwater drone w/gyrojet pistol. Its smaller, can go underwater, and actually fits aboard the yacht.

Master's License: Actually, I have no recall of what the USCG Master's license covers. Anybody know?

Slots needed (each shift):
Minimum:

Helm
Weapons if in combat

Possible Extras that can be combined with other positions:

Sensors
Engineering (in theory, it should be required as a separate watch, but...for a ship this small, I won't.)
Remote Ops (Drones, in short)

I would argue that one person trying to handle helm, weapons, and everything else would be...Challenged on a good day, attention coprocessors be damned.

So you need at least 2 people to fight the ship; You can get by with just one at other times, but it isn't recommended.

That said, keep in mind that many a yacht tends to just find a safe, sheltered place to just drop anchor at night and sleep, so you don't necessarily need to have watches covering 24 hours a day. Of course, that -is- in an age before pirates.

For your consideration...

La Belle Dame Sans Merci
Registered Kingston Jamaica (As close to port Royal as you can get) with a tragic history for even a relatively young vessel, no owner other then the Jamaican government having had the vessel in possession (in dry dock) for more then 12 months for various reasons ranging from inadvertent owner drownings in clear weather, live transmissions of simsense starlets scandals involving campaigning chief politicians, paranormal bone crab infestations, an owner losing the title to an opponent pulling an inside straight flush, and most recently found abandoned being herded by a migrating sea turtle swarm.

Litany can do Pilot Watercraft and Gunnery, though not very well, so should be considered secondary if it comes down to important maneuvers and shootings.

The yacht will have rigger adaption but those will not be the only helm controls.

Are we going to have any aerial drones?

Penta are any of the VTOL drones from Rigger 3 available?

Gunner can fire guns of most types. He can also stand a Helm Watch.

Watches typically are Chow to Chow ie Breakfast to Lunch, Lunch to Supper, Supper to Midrats, Midrats to Breakfast. Basically 4 watches in a non combat environment.

Battle Stations are Port and Starboard watches, basically half of the crew on watch while the other half is not on watch. Ie not on watch does not always mean sleeping. Running from the times of meals to the next meal.

WMS

@DireRadiant
I like your background for the ship.

Carlos should probably be Engineering. He can do this well. He doesn't know the tasks involved with the other stations so well, but he can learn (or default).

Something I think we should have, and should probably go in the group account is the strongest directional jammer we (or our employers) can get a hold of. (actually, I guess it doesn't need to be that strong, all we need to do is reduce the opposition's signal to like 3 and then they can't communicate outside of line of sight, at least on the open ocean).

I think we should go for the Shops, I think that is good use of space which we have an abundance of anyways. e.g. we could try converting the 2 extra rooms into the shops. Or whatever.

VTOL rotary drones of Body 0 to Body 2, yes.

Other than that, among the aerial drones, there's no way to launch em (in the case of vectored-thrust VTOL drones, you would damage the deck).

@Narse
From what I have read of the SR 4 jammer the range very limited, area jammer is 25m.

Penta
Thanks that gives some variety at least.

WMS

@All
Johnny Rocket can run either helms, gunnery or remote drone operations. He is former CAS navy and at home on a ship. He does not need diving gear of any type, that's all built in. He also has a sleep regulator so he only sleeps 3 hours/day.

@DireRadiant
Ditto on the background.

@WearzManySkins
Johnny has a roto-drone and I still want a second one as part of the team gear.

What about the blimp drone? Why couldn't it be launched from the deck? (As a sidenote, couldn't we give it the solar panel treatment, so it can stay airborne all the time, and give it orders to keep over the boat unless otherwise commanded?

Yea, I still really like the blimp drone as our eye in sky... and its relatively cheap.

@Redjack
Do you have access to Rigger 3 to look at the other drones that Penta has approved?

Body 3 drones take up 13.5 cf
Body 2 drones take up 9 ct
Body 1 drones take up 1.5 cf

@Tarantula
IIRC the smaller blimp drones have the solar cell arrangement? If not it can be added.

@Penta
Clarification on you approval on the body 2 or less rotodrones did you mean to include the L.S. Starto 9 drone? I am looking at the Rigger 3 body stats, or is it the body converted to SR4?

Also the SR4 rotary drone has a body of 3?

WMS

Yeah...I was looking at the R3 stats....I have NO idea how to rule the sizes in SR4....

The blimp I'll allow, BTW. But...SOLAR powered. Meaning it's Useless at night.

Would a "Renraku Stormcloud: This solar-powered mini-blimp
can stay in the air for days high above its surveillance target.
Commonly used as an eye-in-the-sky for site security as
well as various air traffic control functions. Equipped with a
Clearsight 3 autosoft." work?

It's a medium size drone.