The underlying technology of old mainframes and computers today are still the same. 0 or 1, our computers aren't doing anything fundamentally different, we've just upped the power on them. It takes time to find a way to increase the power to the point its needed. For the size of commlinks in 2070 for storage capacity, took room size computers 2030. Perhaps the ray wasn't probably before because you'd have to hook it up to the stepvan in order to get the necessary output. We're talking about future-tech here, and this is well within reason with the other technologies ramping up. I'm just saying not everyone can hammer you mom, but I'm sure Ares could hammer your mom, and if they wanted she'd like it too.

Existance does not mean that the availability is for everyone. Take the houserule or leave it. If a hacker is finding a lack of things to do and needs the stun gun, throw it in. With the confusion of the matrix rules to some it might be easier to give your hacker a blackout gun and put him with the gun slingers. Some GM's don't like the Matrix or try to avoid it, and some players like hackers/technomancers this is a way for both to get what they want. My technomancer finds enough things to do without having to deal with meat bodies as well. Thats what the bruisers are for.

Just took one out it looks like.

It's a very simplified statement, and I'm well aware of that (I'm actually an Application Developer). But saying the technology would of existed 40 years ago if it was possible at all is very closed minded. Technology in Real Life has almost bipassed 2040 SR, thats the whole reason the timeline had to be pressed forward to 2070 to make up for what we have now that wasn't included in SR3.

it's not simplified, it's wrong and it's misleading and it has no bearing on what's being discussed. it's wrong because power requirements for computers have gone down as efficiency has gone up. it's misleading because the amount of power going into a computer doesn't have a direct bearing on what that computer is capable of, except in extremely broad terms (less power means no worky, more components means larger power requirements). it's got no bearing on what's being discussed because you're treating trode nets like radio transceivers. radio transceivers throw signal further if you feed them more power. if trode nets fed radio waves to your brain, amping the power to the trodes would make them work at longer distances. but they don't, because the brain is not a radio receiver. it is a receiver for some kind of crazy crap the principles behind which have never been discussed in SR. all we know about it is that for forty years, no progress has been made on getting that crap to affect the brain from distances longer than touching the skin of the head (Frank's wacky claims about synthskin, for which he has yet to provide a page reference, notwithstanding).

If the technology (or means) existed to amplify the existing 'trode nets into large-scale brain wave transceivers, then the new wireless matrix would have been built along those lines instead of how it developed.

http://www.navysbirprogram.com/NavySearch/...6A-1E89970EA8BD

Looks like stun rays are already in the works. The navy is trying to do such in one of two ways...

I dunno, the difference between a brain hacking ray and that stun ray is about the same difference as reprogramming a computer while it's running without a net connection and hitting the computer with basically a wireless taser. The first changes the way it works and processes things, the second forces so much current through the system that it'll shut down.

I'm not touching the whole brainhacking debate with a 10 foot pole, but this is just a fallacious arguement.

I'm with Paradigm on the "stun ray != mind control ray" argument. Bullets disrupt brain processes too, but another 60 years of development isn't going to produce lead-based mind control bullets.

I can't believe this thread is still going. Is anyone going to change their minds about whether brain-hacking should/shouldn't be allowed? Anyone?

Maybe we should have a thread about whether chocolate or strawberry ice-cream is tastier.

Brain hacking should be allowed. It was one of the more sinister uses of select BTLs in previous editions. What shouldn't be allowed is "naked brain" hacking, that is hacking an unwired brain from afar by focusing wickedly invisible Brainhammer rays at the target.

Capture the target, throw a trode net on his head, then go to town all Mad Scientist like with your custom and ridiculously illegal programs and you're totally fitting into the flavor and style of the game. Sitting at a coffee shop sipping your cappuccino while randomly hacking any brain around you just to get your rocks off... not so much.

What we need is a poll so people can focus all their convictions on one furious click of a radio button.

Once we have a complete list, I'll post a poll. Of course a poll won't decide anything, these are just houserules, but I'm curious to see what the distribution is.

So what are all the brain-hacking variations on the table now?

• Contact-ranged, naked brain hacking (i.e. can hack an augmented person's brain, but only at touch range).
• Signal-ranged, naked brain hacking (i.e. only within device's signal range).
• Orbital-ranged, naked brain hacking (i.e. satellite's control my brain!).
• Matrix-ranged, naked brain hacking (i.e. anytime, anywhere thru the intertubes).
• Contact-ranged, datajack-only brain hacking (i.e. can only hack someone's brain who has a datajack or internal commlink implant).
• Signal-ranged, datajack-only brain hacking.
• Orbital-ranged, datajack-only brain hacking.
• Matrix-ranged, datajack-only brain hacking.
• Don't allow brain-hacking at all.

Any other variants that I missed?

I think we could also post a correlating poll on whether or not trodenets should allow someone to receive simsense, maybe also a poll on whether brainhacking should cost extra BP somehow instead of just programs/hardware.

Thats NeoTokyo. And once Corp Enclaves is available there will be a run against some biodrone research facility for my players. Nuff said.

They may change, as all of their kind may IMO. Still, they are not the same as before.

--

I was kind of hoping that someone would put forth their own vision of game theory and possibly spawn off some alternate set of house rules that went off in an entirely different direction. But I made it pretty clear that such a setup would be an entirely different set of house rules that went in an entirely different direction.

I genuinely wanted the people who want something different than what I'm offering to be happy. And I wanted them to get off my primary thread with their essentially impossible demands. I got exactly one of those, which will do for now.

The underlying problem where in Hacking in a world without naked brain hacking is an attack where the defender chooses whether they will be subjected to it hasn't really been addressed on this thread. It's possible to address of course, some people have done initial concepting on some sort of carrot-based system where being Matrix active made you revolutionarily more effective in some way and thus that denying yourself access to the Matrix was at least almost as bad as being hacked.

And that's fine. It's not the game I want to play, but I uderstand that some people like the idea. It's also not a finished idea since the dicepools that people have in Shadowrun are already set at a point where you don't get any particular bonuses from being connected to the Matrix - meaning that such an overhaul is actually much more invasive to the system as a whole (affecting such things as stealth and driving success tests) than my own.

But unfortunately, people really would rather curse darkness than light candles. Hell, they'd rather curse candle makers who make candles of a color they don't like than go make candles of their own.

-Frank

Japan's already there. They have vending machines everywhere, even on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere, selling everything from eggs, flowers, and giant bags of rice to shampoo, underwear, and (of course) lots of porn.

http://www.photomann.com/japan/machines/index.htm

The vending machines can even tell if you're a minor just by looking at you:
http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national/20071...113TDY03102.htm