The Former Mr. Johnson has been posted to Klinktastic's thread. I'll put him up here too for convenience:

How many are left to do?

-Frank

Does't matter, ur all artists. Keep them comming and thanks for the work.

...how about a more traditional Physad? This one though would use a couple powers from Street Magic

How about a technomancer and a hacker?

Back in the day there was a Mercenary and an Ork Mercenary. The concept in either case was a professional warrior who had seen genuine war. They used heavy weapons are weren't afraid to shoot things with big guns. But however cool the idea of someone running around with a rusty LMG and jungle cammo fatigues was, there was the basic fact that being a mundane joker with little or no speed enhancement on made you so much meat. By third edition it had been cut down to just a single Mercenary (who happened to be an Ork), and it still suffered from the fact that it was basically a Street Samurai who would get his ass royally handed to him by a Street Samurai. The Mercenary archetype didn't make it past third edition in any form, and it was not particularly missed.

Background: The Ork Mercenary used to work in a conflict zone such as sub-Saharan Africa, Trollish Myanmar, the Balkan Disputed Region, or the South American Freefire Zone. And he wasn't a mechanic or a bricklayer out there – he shot people in the face for money. He may have worked for a nation (which may or may not still exist), a corporation, an ideology, or an ethnic group. He may even have fought in the same conflict on different sides at different times. War is the only thing he has ever really known, and now that he has escaped to the civilized world he finds that the indiscriminate destruction he was used to on a daily basis is something that The Man will pay money for. Good money as it happens.

Goal: This character should be able to fight and make an impression on the battlefield level. However, while it is certainly impressive to carry a White Knight into the fray, the character should be able to do more. The character should be capable of handling himself in the jungles he supposedly fought in, and he should be able to do any leg work at all.

Ork Mercenary
“We have a saying about people who won't eat their soup because the fly has landed in it. We say that they have not been in Africa for very long.�


So how did we do? In extreme mortal kombat he will totally schoolzor you. 14 dice to train a White Knight on your punk ass. 8 dice for Tracking and 9 dice for Infiltration mean that he can actually Rambo you pretty well.

Weaknesses: This character uses crappy old cybertech by design. Eventually when some ¥ are thrown his way he'll want to strip that crap out and replace it with Muscle Aug, Toner, and Synaptic Boosters. Similarly, not having a Synthacardium on a merc or street sam is an insult, those things are completely absurd in how totally awesome they make you (recall that Full Defense is Reaction + Gymnastics, which makes it an Athletics test). The lack of technical skills is going to hurt, especially on high end runs, meaning that he'll end up being the guy who machetes people long after that stops being super important. The lack of palming is also a problem. If he can't sneak in, he probably can't sneak decent weaponry in either. And while it is possible for him to kill you with a survival knife or his holstered Hamerli, he is at a serious disadvantage if it comes to either of those.

-Frank

...nice blast from the past. One teensy little thing (& really, I'm not picking on you, trust me ) but I thought you couldn't take a specialisation on a skill group.

...maybe I'll have to resurrect the Rocker, seeing as someone already posted the rules conversion a while back.

Also I take it he has an "8" instead of " " Strength. That emoticon is such a bother. they should have done it "8 )" instead.

According to the FAQ, he may break apart the skill group any time, pending GM approval. As everything at chargen is GM approval, he´s good to go.

Edit: To avoid confusion, the skills should be listed separately. I would have written it the same way on my own sheets though.

There is no rule against taking specializations or getting specific bonuses on skills in a group. The rule says that you can't take skill specializations for a group. So you can spend the points to specialize the Tracking of your Outdoors Group in Jungles, but you can't spend two points to specialize the entire group in Jungles.

For versimilitude, you can compare the wording on the "no specializations for groups" rule on page 110 to the "no improved ability for groups" rule on page 187. Nevertheless, the sample Gunslinger Adept has the Firearms Group and Improved Ability in Pistols. That's fine and perfectly legal.

The reason that awkward language exists to confuse people at all is because Skill Groups are mysteriously defined as skills in and of themselves rather than just packages of skills which they also count as. And this means that every single thing that applies to skills has to state that it can't select a whole skill group rather than just a regular skill.

-Frank

True?!?

We had one discussion on breaking groups at chargen, but not one of us had the idea that specs INSIDE a group are allowed and only specs ON a group forbidden.

Frank:

...I know that after the character enters play, the skill group can be broken. However, technically, these Sample Characters are supposed to be characters fresh out of Chargen. Hence, a specialisation couldn't be applied to an individual skill in a skill group without prior GM approval. This in a sense means a "houserule" which should not be accommodated in the design of a sample character. Why they allow adepts to apply the Improved Ability power to individual skills in a group and disallow specialisations though is an interesting point.

...here is the FAQ take on Skill groups

Im wondering, can we add in other ideas that might have not been in the original book, or are these pretty much just flat remakes?

I had an archetype idea for a ''Wolf'' type guy who ''Fixes Problems'', a la Pulp Fiction. I suppose he'd have alot of Face in him with the influence skills, but im thinking lots of Knowledges that let him get his plans on covering stuff up. Let's face it, with the amount of trouble most shadowrunning teams get into, having a guy who specializes in covering asses would be a great boon.

Also, there are those old archetypes...i had remade the Bodyguard kind of more along the Bouncer lines, but there was the old Street Mage, Former Company Man, Former Wage Mage, the aformentioned Rocker, Tribesman...well, there were alot. Some they combined, but i can see a 'big book o archetypes' circulating around.

While I love the old archetypes, remember that this is supposed to be an easy-to-access selection of sample characters for newbies. The more we add, the more complex they get.

Still, at a quick glance, we are missing a Decker and Otaku sample. Does anyone want to take them on?

i dunno, decker is easy (electronics and cracking skill groups or skills individually? check. all hacking programs at 6? check. commlink at the highest rating available at chargen? check. there isn't much more you can do beyond maybe adding in some gear to boost those skills, but once again that's quite straightforward).

the 'otaku' (by which i assume you mean technomancer) i would design, but for the fact that the only way to get any mileage at all out of one is basically to min/max it to death, and you don't want that

but heck, if you want, i could probably bust out an optimised TM. won't be much good at anything other than matrix stuff (i'll give them some drones to play with so they aren't *totally* useless in the meatworld, though).

...well it looks as if ElFenrir has the classic physad pretty well covered with the Bouncer/Bodyguard in the Sample Character Archive thread.

...for the Decker (& thank you for using the "old school" term) I would simply submit my Matrix Specialist Violet (#83) but she also has a number of enhancements and a couple qualities from Augmentation which I don't think would really make her a good candidate for a basic sample PC.

Well, you could always take the basis for Violet, and just axe off the Augmentation stuff. That's what i did with the Adept; just switched out a couple of character-centric Active skills(i kept the Knowledge, but i assume most players, even beginners, switch them up with no problem), and any Street Magic stuff(not alot was there.)

But yeah; for a good, garden variety Decker, just cover the bases, i say. Ive done 2 already, and decking isn't my strong point, only played one and made a Techno npc, so i really dont have the expertise.

I can see what the point of keeping them broad, but still not too broad a range as to confuse new players, though. But choice is always good. the Rocker might be ok to put in, as it can give a more media-centric archetype, if we don't have one yet. Should be maybe one.

I think Occult Investigator took over the spot for classic gumshoe. Though a totally non-cyber, non magical archetype Detective might also be a nice addition(skills, Edge, contacts, knowledges, baby.)

And re-reading the bit on characters able to defend themselves; i sort of agree. Not every character has to have multiple combat skills, but i'd say each one should have some type of firearm or projectile weapon of sorts, even some throwing knives. I have, though, played characters with no combat skills, and seen them played, to useful effect.

Melee isn't TOO necessary in SR4, with Dodge around...but if i were to deal out melee skills to non combat characters, id go with Clubs(Stun Baton). Its easy to come by, inexpensive, has reach, and doesn't require Strength that the non combatants might not have in spades. A good all around defense tool, and if you want to work the skills into the background, anyone can learn to hit something with a stick.

...yeah I could go to one of the earlier drafts I guess. Think I still may have one floating around on my HD I can upload. The earlier version still had good B&E skills as well. Give me a few minutes

Yeah the Rocker would be neat but there is some dedicated headware like the Synth Link that isn't standard Then there's Rocker Status that someone extroplated for 4th ed from my favourite supplement Shadowbeata while back. "I'll go ahead & draft her up as well tonight & post her here to see what people think before putting her on the Archive Thread. I also have been working on adapting the CyberSnoop and associated rules as well. One thing I noticed, an adept with a mix of social oriented powers and headware works real well for a reporter.

Not to be contrary, but I strongly disagree with taking clubs over unarmed combat. First of all, melee skills are generally a tertiary or defensive skill at best, even for most combat oriented characters, so you may as well take the one that is ALWAYS available (provided you're not physically incapacitated, of course) since you'll rarely if ever be using melee for anything but defense or as a last resort anyway. It also bears mentioning that unarmed combat is a more complete defensive package than clubs since it also applies to breaking free of a hold in subdual combat, something no other melee skill helps against beyond the initial test to avoid getting hit in the first place. Besides, shock hands/gloves/frills deal the same damage as batons and are easier to conceal. Really, about all you're getting out of clubs is the tiny reach bonus and that likely won't be enough to save your ass if your GM actually remembers that Bubba the Love Troll's tender embrace is enough to do in most characters with a little luck on the initial attack roll.

Honestly, I know that sounds like I have a pretty dire opinion of melee in general, but that's really not the case; I think just about any runner can benefit from melee skills since they provide defense as well as an extra offensive option. After all, the fact that your opponent likely could have done more damage with two shots from a handgun than they did with one swipe of a monowhip isn't really much consolation as you roll Body to see how many feet of intestine are still in the right place.

I can see the benefits of Unarmed, but i guess, just in my experiences, that Clubs ended up being better off for those people who didn't do it a whole lot. Unarmed ive had some nice success with, even in SR4, believe it or not...but those characters had at the very least a 3(+2) and a decent Agility(4+) to back it up...in other words, tossing around at least 9 dice on it.

Clubs, though, in my experience, seemed to be better off for 'the little guy', since he's probably only got a 1(+2) or 2(+2) tops in it, and a what...2-3 agility? That extra Reach die goes a little way, ive discovered. Now, keep in mind, this is pretty much a totally numerical look at things. And a decent(2 or 3) Dodge skill(which, IMO, any non combative character might want to invest in), can help defend against melee quite fine, with full defense. The ability to get out of Unarmed locks is nice, i admit...but with the aformentioned 1 or 2 dice...at least with a club or baton you can try to keep some distance(except the aformentioned Bubba the Love Troll example, who has Reach anyway). However, Unarmed(Shock Frills/Glove) wouldn't be a bad choice, by any means. I think im swayed this way, again, from stuff ive seen in action.

Melee isn't as good in SR4, ill believe that...but ive also had some pretty successful melee characters, so i can't totally disregard it. But Melee does indeed have a sort of bad rap nowadays.

EDIT: And, of course, the monowhip. The only thing that keeps that thing from being the general all purpose melee tool for non combative characters is the fact that to prevent self-decapitation, you need a pretty damn nice skill and Agility behind it(since you can't specialize in Exotic Melee...while i preferred Whips as its own skill, thats a story for another thread.) But ive seen countless people devote themselves the Monowhip as their sole melee skill. (im more partial to the Combat Axe, myself, which is a nasty piece of work, even for an average Strength character.)

...OK without further adieu, here here's the Matrix Specialist (as I call her - "hacker" is so droll sounding). Took a little bit more since the draft wasn't totally complete as I thought & I wanted to add a few features that the current version of Violet ( yeah, yeah, yeah, #84) has from the core book.

"...you want in there boyo? Then I'm your key..."



As can be seen the Matrix Specialist is also a good B&E and EW specialist as well. She also isn't inept in a gunfight and packs a little surprise up her sleeve with her Shock Hand implant, which can also affect technological items as well. There is room left for additions from Augmentation Cyber (such as Microscopic Vision which would be a real boon to her tech skills) and Bio/Gene ware. Her concept was partially influenced by the film Sneakers but she can't drive the Winnebego.

Kyoto Kid: I am aware of that and many other rulings. And there were even sample characters that were cut from Augmentation for space reasons. Truly, if you want to specialize one of the skills in a skill group, go for it.

----

I could do a Technomancer. It suffers from the fact that a Technomancer can't get all the programs and that the programs are often reactive in nature. Thus, a Technomancer can't hack if the target system is set up to deny her. Also there's the fact that in extremis circumstances there's actually no particular limit to how many IC you can be jumped with. And while the Technomancer can have a higher Stealth rating, she's still going to be found by some non-zero fraction of the Black IC. And while the Hacker is just going to go AR and be forced to reboot from the assault (forcing him to try again in a few seconds), the Technomancer is going to take actual physical damage and die. Even their Fault Sprites can't engage in combat at all because they can't roll Matrix Perception and cannot select a target.

So really, Technomancers cannot expect to hack systems and shouldn't want to in any case. What they can do is summon Machine Sprites to have Pilot and Autosoft ratings above 4. That makes an impressive Drone Rigger.

-Frank

...Sample Characters in Augmentation? Now those would have been interesting to see. Any sources where these might be found? I'd love to see a fully decked out Cyberzombie and Cyborg as well as a "Genebrat" (Transhuman) if they had one written up.

Oh, and apologies for getting so rules lawyer-ish. I had some early character concepts like the Ork Mercenary (before I really knew 4th ed that well) that were slapped down by the GM. Yeah, I sometimes hate it when rules get that "haze" about them - ja, aber nein, aber ja, aber nein... usw.

Anyway, I agree on the TM. That is why I never bothered with them. Nice concept, but they should have at least allowed cyber augmentation (as they did with Otaku) without sacrificing resonance.

And 'now' someone should draw all of these sample characters...

The Former Company Man archetype didn't make it past second edition. And no wonder, it lacked the combat efficiency of the street samurai or even the mercenary, and in return it got... well pretty much nothing. Sort of a lame jack of all trades, hampered by profound weaknesses and glaring limitations. While this was supposed to be the archetype of most of the original fiction characters, it never lived up to that promise and people forgot it existed.

Background: The Former Company Man used to work as on behalf of a corporation's shadow activities in house. Part killer, part handyman, he once did “stuff� that the corps would prefer to not talk about.

Goal: This character should be able to cover his tracks. He should be able to blend into a crowd, follow a man, and do it all without leaving footprints. This is a man who managed to escape a non-competition clause – he should be able to get things done without drawing attention to himself. At the same time, he should be able to fall in for whatever it is that the team needs getting done. He's not a face, he probably tries to avoid getting filmed, but he should say “Fine, I'll do it.� as often as possible.

Former Company Man
“There are things you can see that will make your silence worth more than your life insurance policy. It's best to notice that before other people do.�


So how did we do? Our Former Company Man is not that terrifying in combat. Sure, he has a sub machine gun, 3 initiative passes, and rolls 10 dice to shoot you in the face. But he is running himself at only 5 dice to dodge, 6 on a full defense (whatever). So he'd best take cover at the start of any engagement, because he isn't liable to survive getting shot at much. However, he has a huge list of knowledges, and rolls 10 dice on most of them, so he'll be interjecting weird background information constantly. He rolls 14 dice on first aid or lockpicking. 8 Dice on Demolitions, Infiltration, and Forgery. Plus, he can drive a boat (6 dice). So he's going to be contributing something all the time. That and a 6 Edge will let him bluff himself through most situations.

Weaknesses: He rolls only 4 dice on most Social Skills. Even though he can muddle through in Russian or German, he is seriously muddling through. Also, because of the horrible exspense sink that Skills are in SR4, he's going to have a hard time bootstrapping himself into competency if it turns out that he needs to be a full time Doctor or Explosives man.

-Frank

Interesting take on the former company man. My feelings on ''former company man'' is that it's difficult to shoehorn in...so i see you went for the 'jack of all trades' type. But you could have Former Company Hackers, Former Company Black Ops(to me, skilled in firearms, demolitions, close combat, the dirty assassin types), Former Company Spies(heavier on the stealth and social groups)...but i do like what you did. SR2 seemed to do a more former company Combat Guy, which i didn't think was so bad, but i see your point how the 'troubleshooter' would have alot of problems troubleshooting some of the guys he had to deal with.

I'll do an Enforcer. The one in the book isn't that bad, actually, except for being a 426 point character (since they forgot that the Uncouth negative quality doubles social skill costs at character creation), and lacking a Perception skill. Mine will be more basic muscle - the guy in the book seems more like a made man than a legbreaker.

Here's the Enforcer, also posted to Klinktastic's thread:

I've always been slightly offended at things being allergic to Gold. I mean seriously, how wold that even work? It's non-reactive. It's like being alleric to helium or empty space.

-Frank

Thank you, Frank! Gold allergy is a favorite of a couple of guys in my group and I've never understood why. I'm glad to see I am not the only one out there that feels that having an allergy to a non-reactive substance seems wrong somehow.

Chris

I've just assumed it was a magically caused allergy rather than a physical one.

I've forgotten most of my high school chemistry, so I didn't think that allergy would present such logical problems. I just picked one that would be uncommon, but still something the character could conceivably encounter at a bad time, from the examples listed under the quality. I'll admit, much as "It's magic!" gets overused, that I usually give allergies such as silver or gold to elves, dwarves, trolls, etc. but not humans, inspired by all of the folklore where such beings can't bear the touch of silver, or cold iron, or whatnot. One of the archetypes in the book (the Drone Rigger) even has an allergy to gold.

But we're trying to improve on the archetypes in the book , so... would silver work better? Or a mild allergy to sunlight?

I went ahead and changed it to silver. I could have changed it to sunlight, mild, but I would have felt vaguely guilty about taking sunlight as a common allergy in a game set in Seattle.

Gold allergies are usually to alloy materials within what is called gold, but does not mean chemically pure gold.

I guess you could call it a Nickel allergy, but then you would need to explain where Nickel can be found. Lets say your gold allergic reaction could now be invoked by touching iron - not funny.

Not funny for the player, that is. For the GM OTOH...

Nickel is a common component of steels. Not to mention being used at much larger percentages in keys, cutlery (knives/forks), zippers, etc. I think it would be extremely inconvenient. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_silver

Hmm, Allergy: High Velocity Lead?

Very few characters seem to take Hayfever as an allergy.

Allergic to surgical steel as in surgical tools or to one of the components of surgical steel or that exact alloy itself(that would be weird)?

Chris