Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: The Sample Characters
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Shadowrun
Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Jhaiisiin
LOL I'd almost take "Allergy: Death" myself, but then I just know I'd have zero chance of making it through a resuscitation.

As to the surgical steel, it was the steel they use for pins and screws and stuff they use to put bones together. At least that's as much as I was able to garner. Hmm... Maybe I should start being more curious about my friends' allergies? LOL
Whipstitch
Plus, imagine if you're fighting multiple opponents.

PC: "Whoa! Critical success! I NAILED that rent-a-cop! Hell, I almost feel sorry for the guy."
GM: "Yeah, and with a full narrow from an Ingram I'm not even going to roll his Body. Two more guards just came running around the corner, so roll initiative again. And subtract 2; I think your allergies are flaring up."
Ryu
QUOTE (kzt)
Nickel is a common component of steels. Not to mention being used at much larger percentages in keys, cutlery (knives/forks), zippers, etc. I think it would be extremely inconvenient. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_silver

To elaborate: Nickel is used to improve the corrosion resistance of iron alloys. It is one of three common alloy components (chromium and molybdenum being the others). Let those munchkin allergy takers feel the pain, they brought it upon themselves! You should never fail to educate your players silly.gif

Yes, surgical steel is a nearly-guranteed candidate since that one needs to be stainless.
Cthulhudreams
Yeah, but if someone took allergy: uncommon (gold) and then you tried to make it apply to nickel alloys you're probably being a bastard, being in that nickel alloys are hardly uncommon and are in fact present in just about everything within 5 feet of me except my intray and the paper therein.
JBlades
...oops, didn't mean to post.
Sponge
QUOTE (Cain)
QUOTE (DireRadiant @ Dec 18 2007, 11:46 AM)
Am I correct in thinking there is no Mystic Adept in the Sample Characters?

Not in the original ones, no. If you see an archetype that'd be well-suited for a physmage, though, feel free to write one up. Since we're maintianing the KISS principle, though it may be a tad complicated.

Here's one, a variant on the Covert Ops specialist. I only used the basic rulebook (no Street Magic stuff). Apologies in advance if it's not min/maxed enough for some of you. wink.gif


[ Spoiler ]


Not fantastic in combat (especially given the negative qualities), but using a smartlinked pistol gives 9 dice, more with Attribute Boost: Agility; not too shabby. Infiltration is 9 dice off the bat, not counting the Attribute Boost and spells, while other Stealth skills are at 6 dice. Health and Illusion spells are both at 8 dice, Drain pool is 7 dice, Perception is at 6 (+3 for visual/aural with the right gear). Hardware and other Electronics skills are only at 6 dice, but can be boosted with an Improved Logic spell.

A mystic adept involves a lot of compromises, especially if you want to give them skills in other areas besides magic. This character is not fantastic in their area, but he/she is competent, can meaningfully help out in a combat situation, and has a fair amount of breadth. Finally, perhaps more than any other type of character, there's so many places to spend your hard-earned karma wink.gif

DS

EDIT: I forgot the negative qualities! eek.gif
Whipstitch
What really pisses me off is the inability to erase your signature as a mystic adept without spending a full power point on Astral Perception. It's a potentially fatal flaw, and it's one of the many reasons why I consider counterspelling and perhaps minor binding and summoning to be the only truly practical reasons to dip your toes into being a Mystic Adept.
Ryu
Sponge, thank you! With some modifications for background, and fortunately with 450 BP to spend, I will play a character based on that Mystic Adept.
Sponge
QUOTE (Ryu)
Sponge, thank you! With some modifications for background, and fortunately with 450 BP to spend, I will play a character based on that Mystic Adept.

biggrin.gif Glad you like it. By the way, I forgot to list the negative qualities! I edited the previous post.

DS
Ryu
The same problem as always. The more I think about it, the more I´m building a mage with bioware. The point spend on astral perception is really annoying, I´d rather spend it installing some ware. Still, thanks for the inspiration Sponge!
FrankTrollman
Is someone going to bite the bullet and make a halfway decent Technomancer?

Or are we going to write off the implementation in SR4 as dumb?

-Frank
toturi
Or we could bite the bullet and go whole hog min-max the Technomancer and we could hold it up as an example on how technomancers should be played.
Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
Is someone going to bite the bullet and make a halfway decent Technomancer?

Or are we going to write off the implementation in SR4 as dumb?

-Frank

...I say write off. Like Otaku, TMs make better NPCs than PCs
Cthulhudreams
I double dare you to do that with a technomancer that isn't really a 'drone herder' not because thats bad per say, but then why have a drone rigger wink.gif Maybe the drone rigger should be a technomancer.
Whipstitch
QUOTE (FrankTrollman @ Jan 4 2008, 08:45 AM)
Is someone going to bite the bullet and make a halfway decent Technomancer?

Or are we going to write off the implementation in SR4 as dumb?

-Frank

Yeah, I'm afraid I wrote them off ages ago.


Also, the reason you should have a drone rigger who isn't a technomancer is because it's generally a lot more versatile to make a one man army Drone Rigger/Samurai, Rigger/Hacker/Adept or even a one many army Drone Rigger/Hermetic Summoner who provides Astral, Matrix AND meat overwatch via watchers and other low spirits and drones from the comfort of his van. After all, both disciplines benefit from decent logic scores for drain and repairing/customizing your toys and you can easily fit in a Control Rig and Skillwire 3 (for your repair skills) for under an essence point.
Sponge
QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
Is someone going to bite the bullet and make a halfway decent Technomancer?

Or are we going to write off the implementation in SR4 as dumb?

-Frank

Well I did a mystic adept, I may as well take a crack at a technomancer nyahnyah.gif
Whipstitch
I personally don't feel that mystic adepts have half the problems technomancers do. It's not even close, even if they can't erase their own sigs.
Kyoto Kid
...had a player who made a pretty effective one that was part Social Adept part influence Mage with the Possession tradition.

Since many of the "influence" based spells need only a single net success for the effect to take place, the lower force is not as much an issue, (3 hits sufficient for Mind Probe purposes) particularly when dealing with mundanes.
X-Kalibur
QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
Is someone going to bite the bullet and make a halfway decent Technomancer?

Or are we going to write off the implementation in SR4 as dumb?

-Frank

I think the problem comes from only being able to make 1 or 2 effective versions of it and both are so munchy and underperform something awful in other areas.
Whipstitch
Yeah, you either feel like you're pooping all over what little balance and sanity there is in the rigging rules or that you are utterly worthless to the team with little else in between.
Ryu
TMs should not be consumed RAW. I already detest software costs for hackers because everyone else is just copying the hackers programs, paying 4 BP for rating four instead of 0.8 does not improve things. Not something a newbie should try to handle anyway.
Cain
That is a valid perspective. Who else here thinks that an otaku is too complex for a new player? That's the most valid reason for excluding them from a list of sample archetypes.
Jaid
considering we're doing the work of character generation, i can't really say they're much more complicated than a regular hacker actually.

once they have to actually try and advance their TM, that gets tricky, but by then they should at least have a basic concept of a fair amount of the game, and they will likely need to upgrade the non-TM parts of the concept first anyways.

heck, if you want, i can see what i come up with, but it's likely to be a little min/maxed.

still, i'll give it a shot...
Sponge
QUOTE (Sponge)
QUOTE (FrankTrollman @ Jan 4 2008, 08:45 AM)
Is someone going to bite the bullet and make a halfway decent Technomancer?

Or are we going to write off the implementation in SR4 as dumb?

-Frank

Well I did a mystic adept, I may as well take a crack at a technomancer nyahnyah.gif

Well here goes. A limitation I found particularly annoying was the maximum number of Complex Forms equal to Logic x2 at chargen. This character is also very highly focused (more than I prefer), both in attributes (Technomancers need good mental stats for their personas) and the complex forms eat up a lot of the BP, so there's less for skills. On the plus side, I think it can give a regular hacker a definite run for the money, and they don't need much gear to do it - and they can get Sprites on top of that, too.

(As an aside, I don't buy the bit about Fault Sprites, and others, being useless - IMHO because of the nature of computers, if the Technomancer can perceive something in the Matrix, he can pass that information on to his sprites so they don't need their own perception checks. It does mean they can't go off on their own attacking stuff, though, the Technomancer - or another persona/agent that the Sprite is listening to - has to be in the same node.)

[ Spoiler ]


9-10 dice base on most Matrix tests while in VR (Technomancers get a +2 on Matrix tests in VR), which can be bumped up with Threading if the need arises (with 8 dice for Threading). 9 dice on Tasking tests. His effective persona has a Firewall, System, and Response of 5 (Response 6 in VR), a Signal of 3, and an inherent Biofeedback filter of 4. He also isn't limited in the number of Complex Forms that he can run at once, unlike a Hacker.

Cybercombat is at 9 dice, with 13 for defense (16 with a Full Defense action), and 10 dice to resist damage (12 if the +2 bonus applies - it's not very clear whether this counts as a "full-VR Matrix test"), 9 (11?) against Black attacks.

I didn't really dip into the whole drone aspect, though he does have the Command Form. And outside of the Matrix, he definitely needs help from friends. 7 dice with a smartlinked pistol in combat isn't going to get very far, but at least he's got 7. On the other hand, he can deal with electronics pretty well, especially with the help of a Sprite or two. High mental stats also make it relatively easy to branch out, as well, if he wants to learn some Biotech or Social skills, for example.

All in all, he came out better than I expected, given all the flak on the forums against TMs - so maybe I goofed up somewhere wink.gif

Kyoto Kid
...Id switch the ratings between Spoof and ECCM. Spoof is just way too important when dealing with IC. As with my former Otaku in 3rd ed. I found that stealth is not only valuable, but also a lifesaver.

It would be helpful to list the attributes for the character's Living Persona as well.

The real costly part of a TM is needing the three skill groups. All the subset skills (save for maybe hardware) are important for the character's DPs. It is a tough call whether you want the character to be better at compiling/decompiling than Hacking/EW If more matrix hacking based, I would switch the ratings between the Cracking and Tasking groups.

While I realise that this character needs the BPs, Infirm is one of the worst to take as it compromises perception skill (which is also important in the matrix) and you cannot default on any physical skill. (it will also save 4BPs that could give her a rating 2 in the skill). I would look more at maybe something like a 10 pt Allergy and Low Pain Tolerance or other combination of NQs to total 20. SINner is also a good one as well and as much as I feel it can get too "munchy", an Incompetence maybe in some physical based skill instead.

I would definitely make sure her pistol is loaded with S&S as with her DP, she does not need to be concerned about staging up the DV with net hits. Smartlink on eyeware and skinlink would be a good purchase. I'd go with a Hammerli even though it has only a 6 round clip as it is already internally Smartlinked, has a GV 1 and uses Heavy Pistol ranges. If you want to fly cheap, take a smartlinked Colt America (300:nuyen:) though she will suffer recoil on her second shot.

..another helpful hint, Make sure the character has a Troll Sammy on the team to hide behind when drek goes down in the meat world.
Jaid
well, first off, any hacker this guy is giving a run for their money is pretty sad.

secondly, infirm may as well have written beside it "if you chose this quality you fail at shadowrun. put down your character sheet and back away from the rulebook, and ask someone else to design your character for you". (note that you cannot default on swimming, climbing, jumping, running (faster than base speed, that is) disguise, palming, infiltration, and escape artist (and a few others). this is deadly. the only way to not be dead from this NQ is to spend more BP taking 1 point in all those skills than you got from the quality in the first place.)
Jaid
ok, here's my TM. min/maxed like crazy, but i assume that honestly, that's the intention. if your TM isn't min/maxed like crazy, then you are seriously paying a ton more to suck more than the hacker at being a hacker, and that just doesn't make sense. extensive use of threading and sprites will be needed.

[ Spoiler ]



not particularly rounded out at all as you can see, but that's how i figure it's intended. TMs are pretty clearly pure matrix specialists imo.

[edit] hmmm... appears to take up quite a bit of room, so i spoiler'd it =P [/edit
Sponge
QUOTE (Jaid)
infirm may as well have written beside it "if you chose this quality you fail at shadowrun. put down your character sheet and back away from the rulebook, and ask someone else to design your character for you". (note that you cannot default on swimming, climbing, jumping, running (faster than base speed, that is) disguise, palming, infiltration, and escape artist (and a few others). this is deadly. the only way to not be dead from this NQ is to spend more BP taking 1 point in all those skills than you got from the quality in the first place.)

Well I don't have a lot of playing experience, so I'll take your word for it about the Infirm.

toturi
QUOTE (Jaid)
secondly, infirm may as well have written beside it "if you chose this quality you fail at shadowrun. put down your character sheet and back away from the rulebook, and ask someone else to design your character for you". (note that you cannot default on swimming, climbing, jumping, running (faster than base speed, that is) disguise, palming, infiltration, and escape artist (and a few others). this is deadly. the only way to not be dead from this NQ is to spend more BP taking 1 point in all those skills than you got from the quality in the first place.)

Or simply do not go out in the first place. Play the spider in the center of the web, unfortunately that role is often reserved for GM PCs.
Cain
QUOTE (Sponge)
QUOTE (Jaid @ Jan 5 2008, 07:14 PM)
infirm may as well have written beside it "if you chose this quality you fail at shadowrun. put down your character sheet and back away from the rulebook, and ask someone else to design your character for you". (note that you cannot default on swimming, climbing, jumping, running (faster than base speed, that is) disguise, palming, infiltration, and escape artist (and a few others). this is deadly. the only way to not be dead from this NQ is to spend more BP taking 1 point in all those skills than you got from the quality in the first place.)

Well I don't have a lot of playing experience, so I'll take your word for it about the Infirm.

Basically, all the group incompetences are worthless. Take individual Incompetences instead for greater flexibility and point return.
Cthulhudreams
Or just cheese out and take Allergy, moderate, Gold/Nickel Alloys, and Allergy, Moderate, Silver or garlic, or something. A pair of them is vastly less crippling for the character and gives the same points.
Fortune
QUOTE (toturi)
Or simply do not go out in the first place. Play the spider in the center of the web, unfortunately that role is often reserved for GM PCs.

Even a Spider benefits from Perception, which is also a Physical skill.
Ryu
Off-Topic, but you could add up the karma+BP(*2) invested into the double-cost part, automatically removing the disadvantage once 40 karma are reached. You get firm by training and smart by learning.

Now what is left to do? Do we get (or want to make) chars using street magic and augmentation?
crash2029
Do y'all think that an assassin would be a good starting archetype? I recently created one.
Stahlseele
as a player character sure . . not so much in the archetype kind of way, ture, but hell, most players end up doing his job at least once most of the time *g*
Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (crash2029)
Do y'all think that an assassin would be a good starting archetype? I recently created one.

...my Salish character Jill (#87) from 2nd ed. was basically that. Her weapon of choice back then was the Walther 2100 with APDS. She had a high Firearms (specialised in the Walther), stealth (with Concentration in hiding) skills, and Quickness. Usually needed only one shot to do the job. Was also pretty dangerous with blades as well. Basically she was designed as a swift and silent death dealing machine (my first character to have the then "new" Synaptic Accelerator and reflex Recorder bioware).
X-Kalibur
Makes me want to take a nice big stab at a Sharpshooter character. But I'd be tempted to do weird things like give them a Math SPU so that they could more easily calculate bullet drop and the like. And thus, realism bleeds in, heh.
Stahlseele
heh, i know what you mean . . every time i build an archer that is NOT an adept i put into his eye range-finder and a math SPU into his head for simple ballistics *g*
btw, why is there no sample character street thief/trick-thief or Breaking and Entering Specialist(Catburgler)
Kyoto Kid
..give me a bit of time on the Street Kid/Trick Thief. I have the perfect example in "Da Brat" (#88). At work right now and don't have my character files available.

Yeah, she's an adept (low MA) but with a few tricks up her sleeves.
Stahlseele
*snaps fingers*
i remember you mentioning something like that now . . good, in your hands it will probably be a decent choice for beginners . .
crash2029
okay here goes

[ Spoiler ]


In a stand up fight the assassin is better at range. However a stand up fight is not what the assassin prefers. In ranged combat he uses 10 dice plus addons. In melee he only uses 7 or 8 dice. A preferred strategy to subdue guards is to use infiltration or influence skills to get near the guard then use subdual combat to silence the guard and follow that up with a narcojet syringe. For other ways around or through targets and obstacles be creative. Athletic skills, influence skills, gun skills, use your imagination and you'll have your GM cowed in no time.


Kyoto Kid
...I'll try to post the Street Kid tonight. Couldn't get to a hotspot last night (don't care to sell my soul for the next couple years to the likes of BomBast or Horiz- er- Verizon). grinbig.gif
Whipstitch
Eh, don't you guys think that an Assassin would rather overlap with the Covert Ops archetype (which has been tweaked, thanks KK) I already posted in the community projects thread?I mean, no offense but I already made a character with essentially the same skillset, although yours has more initiative passes and points spent on firearms while mine has more points spent on athletics, social and infiltration skills.
X-Kalibur
I honestly thought it felt very generalized for an assassin, but then, I'm a weirdo.
Ryu
Ork Street Ganger pic

I got my gf to colour a short sketch for me love.gif
Glyph
One of the contacts I always liked was the elven hitman, the "quintessential gentleman-assassin". I tried to do this guy less as a B&E type, and more as someone focused on sneaking and killing people.

This is the archetypical action movie hitman. biggrin.gif

[ Spoiler ]
Kyoto Kid
...OK here she is...better late than never I guess

The Street Kid Trickster (Adept)

"nothin' up mah sleeve home, cept maybe this big ol' nasty Predator."

[ Spoiler ]

For The Street Kid Trickster, the streets and shadows are all she really knows having been orphaned at a young age. Her schooling didn't come from a TutorSoft, but instead from the hard cold realities of the streets. It has made her tough, scrappy and above all, resourceful. She can tell you who's who in the 'hood, where to go and where not to go, and where you can jam out for a while to shake the heat. The kid is a competent fighter who is not above dealing a low blow or two if it is to her advantage. She is also a slick talker and one smooth little operator who takes great pleasure in pulling one over on a mark whenever possible. One warning, keep an eye on your gear when she's around.

The Street Kid does have make use of two sourcebooks Augmented (for the Kleptomania) and Street Magic (for the nimble fingers power) because they fit her concept all too well.
Fortune
I'd never allow people (except maybe trolls) to use a Predator (or any other heavy pistol) in a hidden arm slide up their sleeve in my games.
Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (SR4 p. 311)
Hidden  Arm  Slide:  Attached  to  the  forearm  and  worn
under  clothing,  this  slide  can  accommodate  a  pistol-sized
weapon.  With  a  wireless  signal  or  correct  sequence  of  arm
movements, the slide releases the weapon/object right into the
wearer’s hand. This takes only a Free Action.

...there is nothing in the errata or FAQ saying otherwise. Now I will give you that a Super Warhawk may not work unless the character is a Troll as that 10.5" barrel is nearly the length of the average human forearm. In any event, this is a GM call and sample characters are not subject to houserules.
Fortune
Shrug. A heavy pistol is a heavy pistol as far as I am concerned, and in my opinion they are all way too big (and heavy) to utilize the arm slide. Keep in mind that the Predator is roughly the size of a Desert Eagle.

Besides, I wasn't commenting on canon, but on my opinion as to what I would allow (through my own warped common sense) in my own games. Canon has numerous examples where it seems common sense is thrown out the window when sweeping statements are made, such as fitting a pistol-sized weapon, which to some people's minds means a machine pistol.

But strictly by canon, it does not state that it fits all pistols, but merely that pistol-sized weapons will fit. Pistols do vary widely in size, and I believe that I am still following canon if I rule that heavy pistols cannot be used in arm slides (except maybe by trolls).
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012