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Cardul
OK, we all know about Bunraku, and the various "common" deviations from the modern world, but I was thinking that there are some new..options that have become available in SR4.

First, we have what Wireless+Simrig+hotsim module can do. Yes, of course, there is the BTLs, but..if you have a SimRig set for recording, and then transmit the data real time, that would open up a kind of new sort of cyber-fetish of people feeling their partners' sensations...

Second, I did not see anything in the penile implant cyberware saying that it required the person to already have that equipment(the same with the breast implants). Now, the breast implants, of course, combined with certain other things mentioned in Augmentation, is pretty much something we have today in post-op trans-genders, but..the penile implant adds the option for people to choose to be functional hermaphrodites, after a fashion.

Of course, we all know about the spells Orgasm and Orgy, and this kind of got me thinking...what else can people think of as enabled in SR4 that we generally would not see today, or is a furtherance of what we have today that we would not necessarily think about(Yes, I can imagine Cyber-sex in VR, but..what else?)

Come on, girls and guys, let's see how creative you can be..what do you think is possible in the SR4 world that is not possible now?
jago668
Well the simrig hotsim thing was done in Strange Days. So there is a visual reference for that.
mfb
on the flip side of Orgasm, you've got the Agony spell. there's also the option of using healing magic to survive (or just prolong) certain activities.
Calabim
Interracial porn, like troll on dwarf action. We already see grossly outrages sized sexual organs in porn. Expand on this. rotate.gif I could also see people having additional sex organs installed. A porn star with 2 vaginas for instance. One could have there gag reflex removed. Or have sex organs installed in places where they don't belong, like the hand or elbow. Man furies would love having sex with someone who is really an anamorphic person. These are just a few of the top of my sick little head.
CircuitBoyBlue
So, in the Sixth World, we'll finally meet the three-boobed chick from Total Recall. Shame I probably won't survive the Awakening, and all its ensuing chaos.
Glyph
I think of the "Girls Gone Wild" videos they have now, where they stalk college girls hoping to get footage of someone taking their top off or something.

Imagine how much worse it would be with full simsense - you sleep with someone you pick up in a bar, not knowing they are wired for full sim, and the next thing you know, you're a porn star.
nathanross
I was recently rereading Ghost in the Shell and it was great to re-encounter the scene where the Major is having hot lesbian sex with the help of AR applications. My personal guess is Cold/Hot sim AR augmented sex. Ive totally been into the possibilities of hot sim AR for a while, and my GM allows me to take my BTLs on the move. Its a whole new world.

As for everything else, think Japanese. I promise you they have already come up with a visual representation (if you know what I mean).

Practically speaking, aside from cyber-Futunari, where on earth do you fit a second vagina? I assume this is without the rest of the reproductive organs. Why not bioware the urethra? Or just give the whole body so many extra nerve endings that it is as sensitive as a clitoris? Also, to fit a troll inside a dwarf, you would need to greatly expand the flexibility of all the flesh around the vagina. It would be like giving birth all the time. That cannot feel good. Also, something would need to be done about the internal organs to allow the room for its complete length (I assume half way just wouldn't be enough for some customers).

(Is this way too graphic? Edit it if you feel it should be)
Cardul
QUOTE (nathanross @ Mar 11 2008, 01:21 AM) *
Also, to fit a troll inside a dwarf, you would need to greatly expand the flexibility of all the flesh around the vagina. It would be like giving birth all the time. That cannot feel good. Also, something would need to be done about the internal organs to allow the room for its complete length (I assume half way just wouldn't be enough for some customers).



Remember the Male dwarf fixer mentioned in Arsenal who prefers payment in male troll sex? If yu think it is bad for women..could you imagine from THAT end of things?
jago668
QUOTE (nathanross @ Mar 11 2008, 02:21 AM) *
Also, something would need to be done about the internal organs to allow the room for its complete length (I assume half way just wouldn't be enough for some customers).


I would assume the main problem you would run into would be the diaphragm. Since with the tech available in shadowrun 207x you could probably get the rest of the stuff moved around etc. Just seems that punching a hole into the muscle that allows you to breathe would be a problem. So you could probably double to triple the available depth depending on the individual. Provided the person is willing to have parts scooped out.
nathanross
QUOTE (Cardul @ Mar 11 2008, 01:29 AM) *
Remember the Male dwarf fixer mentioned in Arsenal who prefers payment in male troll sex? If yu think it is bad for women..could you imagine from THAT end of things?

I thought the Dwarf was on the "male" end of the relationship. That he found please being above and controlling of something so much larger than he is. An inferiority complex.
Neondante
This thread is full of horrible mental pictures. Good job!

We're looking at the extreme fringes here, but what about joe and jill wageslave? They are getting it on too. I think an excellant one would be a simple AR overlay of your partner's body. Have a crush on celebrity X? Want to have sex with the goddamn Batman? But you don't want to visit one of those ethically questionable and highly illegal bunraku parlors? Well then, settle for the next best thing. She won't feel or act like Giggly The Balloon Smuggler, but she'll look just like her... maybe even sound like her, if you've got the earplugs. It would be an easy and legal way to spice up your love life, and maybe help things when your partner's beauty is starting to fade. Plus, I think making something like this common would add to the whole cyberpunk dehumanizing feel of Shadowrun.

As for the more extreme end of things, I know exactly what I'd want. In game I mean. Cough.

Tentacles. Prehensile, flexible, phallic, and ejaculating tentacles. The future is full of Japanese influence anyway, so why shouldn't I... I mean my characters... be able to violate barely legal schoolgirls hentai style?

Hell, come to think of it, there must be tentacle toxic spirits. Maybe a tainted octopus spirit?
Particle_Beam
Why does it need to be toxic? Sex with spirits is soooo passé. nyahnyah.gif
Cardul
QUOTE (Particle_Beam @ Mar 11 2008, 03:43 AM) *
Why does it need to be toxic? Sex with spirits is soooo passé. nyahnyah.gif


Besides..I think that someone with the right possession tradition might be able to do the same thing wink.gif
knasser
QUOTE (nathanross @ Mar 11 2008, 06:21 AM) *
(Is this way too graphic? Edit it if you feel it should be)


This is Dumpshock - not the Wizards of the Coast forums. People are generally expected to take responsibility for reading a thread on "Sexual Oddities" for themselves. I think the only rules are more to do with actual respect - e.g. don't have a go at someone for their beliefs, don't link to something that's going to get them in deep shit if they're reading from work, etc.

Now that said, I can see all of the above oddities being available in SR2070., either through reality or SIM. Unless something happens to bring about a new puritanism in the West (and the US is far more puritan than most of Europe) I don't see anything other than a progression toward an "Everything is Permitted" culture, and it's consistent with the Shadowrun material.

So where does the dystopianism come in? Well I guess that an increasingly self-centred society, an increasingly prevalent attitude of "I have a right to everything I want" leads to much less actual sacrifice for a partner. IN SR2070, probably the only taboo left is to actually fall in love and make do with each other's imperfections.

*Man checks partner's commlink*
"Wait, you're making me look like Eric Bana? I thought you were just playing music!"
"Don't be so whiney!"

Neondante
Oh aye. I remember seeing an alarmist news report some years ago about teenage promiscuity. According to the report, shacking up with one night stands was the norm, and those who actually committed were mocked as "Velcro Twins." I thought it was pretty ridiculous, but things could very well be moving in that direction, especially decades down the line.

I think there's plenty of room for dystopia here. Nothing is taboo in the bedroom (Or you know, wherever), but the ones who actually want an old fashioned one partner relationship may be looked down on.

Edit: Your post about imperfections also reminds me of a scene from Bioshock. (Don't have it? Buy it. Now.) The first level takes place in the medical pavilion of the underwater city of Rapture. Tape recorders around the area include a famous plastic surgeon musing about ADAM, a substance that can allow people such as the protagonist to do amazing things such as shoot lightning and increase intelligence by altering DNA. He started thinking that since the discovery of ADAM, there is no excuse for ugliness. We do not let the insane mingle with the sane, the diseased mingle with the healthy, so why do we let the ugly mingle with the fair? He starts to think that the unlimited opportunities unlocked by ADAM means that beauty should be mandatory. (Actually defining beauty in his mind would mean spoilers. Go buy the game. nyahnyah.gif)

So perhaps in 2070, ugliness is seen as something of a sin, when there's so much cheap, easy, safe, and socially acceptable cosmetic surgery for sale at the local mall. Someone who keeps the body they were born with, imperfections and all, may be looked down at by the in crowd and high society as lazy and unfashionable... the same way someone today might look down at someone because they are wearing cheap or dirty clothes. Someone with small breasts or a small penis could be looked down upon too. I'm sure that "natural male enhancement" would have become a reality in the future. Just think of the demand. (You're sitting on a gold mine, Alex!)

Also reminds me of a page in Transmetropolitan. A guy has just gotten a new penis, and the fact that they were made in a sweatshop by underage workers doesn't bother him in the least. It's just like his old penis, but has a minidisc player. There's also another scene where a father is bragging to anyone who will listen about the designer warts he put in his son's genetic code... apparently, the girls love em.

So yeah, your genitalia as part of your PAN... I'd say that counts as a sexual oddity. Climax at the click of a button, perhaps.
Neondante
QUOTE (Particle_Beam @ Mar 11 2008, 03:43 AM) *
Why does it need to be toxic? Sex with spirits is soooo passé. nyahnyah.gif


You haven't seen much hentai, have you? nyahnyah.gif Tentacle porn doesn't tend to be exactly consensual. I'm guessing that with the tentacle spirits, it would be more or less a human sacrifice. Only instead of killing, well... I'm going to leave it at that.

And before anyone asks, no, I am not an expert on the subject, just a normal geek cursed with entirely too much curiosity. Viva internet.
jago668
Or a mage with a rating 1 sustaining focus (or quickening) walking around with a force 1 orgasm spell on themselves. My mind also giggles at the thought of quickening a force 14 or so orgasm spell on someone else. Then there is the auto-injector cyberware out of Augmentation that you can fill up with whatever viagra type substance you want.
Ganny.Harper
I'm sure with the vampires and ghouls wandering about that necropheliacs are pretty happy too, the only thing they have to worry about is not catching HMHVV.

How about the people with a lot of cyberware in them, your new batery opperated boyfriend.
Fortune
QUOTE (Ganny.Harper @ Mar 11 2008, 10:08 PM) *
... your new batery opperated boyfriend.


Those are the new humanoid drones from Arsenal. Finally I can get my very own Cherry 2000! biggrin.gif
Particle_Beam
QUOTE (Ganny.Harper @ Mar 11 2008, 12:08 PM) *
I'm sure with the vampires and ghouls wandering about that necropheliacs are pretty happy too, the only thing they have to worry about is not catching HMHVV.
Vampires aren't undead, they're just people who were diagnosed as HMHVV-positiv. They're stil normal people who can easily function in normal society *sticks-fingers-in-the-ears-chanting-lalalalalalala-can't-hear-you-lalalalalalalalala-even-louder* dead.gif biggrin.gif
Neondante
QUOTE (Particle_Beam @ Mar 11 2008, 06:43 AM) *
Vampires aren't undead, they're just people who were diagnosed as HMHVV-positiv. They're stil normal people who can easily function in normal society *sticks-fingers-in-the-ears-chanting-lalalalalalala-can't-hear-you-lalalalalalalalala-even-louder* dead.gif biggrin.gif


You know they are going to be huge in the goth set, though... How many of the ones who are REALLY into it are going to turn down sex with an actual vampire?

And I doubt that the necrophiliacs are really all that concerned with technicalities.

Last dance with Mary Jane, one last chance to kill the pain...

Think they have spells that will bring people from the dead, even for just a few moments? Call their spirit back, or at least access their memories and make their body act accordingly?

(And yes, I know that song is about weed, but have you ever seen the music video? 0.o)
Sir_Psycho
QUOTE (Ganny.Harper @ Mar 11 2008, 07:08 AM) *
I'm sure with the vampires and ghouls wandering about that necropheliacs are pretty happy too, the only thing they have to worry about is not catching HMHVV.

This happened in a run I devised. biggrin.gif

QUOTE
Those are the new humanoid drones from Arsenal. Finally I can get my very own Cherry 2000! biggrin.gif

All you need is for some-one to load Unarmed Combat 4 + Gymnastics 4 and command it to attack and you've got your very own Ghost in the Shell: Innocence Gynoid. biggrin.gif

I'll start off with a tame one. We have public sex today, with a variation of publicness practiced by partners, where the naughty thrill comes from the chance of being caught. Now imagine extraterritorial sex. Oh yeah.

I'm willing to bet that at least a whole lot of young magicians who learn a bit of conjuring will have a private "i wonder what that water spirit would feel like" (or something similar), and try it out. And with the rules for spirits going loose, you can bet that every now and then a teenage boy or two would be found drowned to death in their room with their dicks in their hands.

You think a supplementary sexual organ is depraved? Think of the gengineers who dabble in a bit of "erotic art" for the original gene-work pieces. Something that is all orifices for you and your buddies to come over and enjoy comes to mind.

Also, one no-one has mentioned. The RAS Override. Restrainers, blindfolds and classic cuffs are pretty standard sexual practices these days. Now imagine if your girlfriend's RAS over-ride is at your mental command. They're not just restrained, they can not move a muscle. They can't scream. They can't do a thing. They can still feel though. Now imagine the abuses. Imagine the cover-ups after sexcapades go wrong, and there's no safe-word anymore.

We've always had violent and even snuff Simsense recordings and BTL's for the depraved in Shadowrun. But let's imagine you're a rich, depraved corporate cat who just needs that extra kinky thrill. You've got an amoral thug from the Resources Adjustment department, but you wouldn't dream of having sex with him. That would be gay. But Maurice has a data-lock, and you've got the best commlink money can buy and that new hacking suite is within grasp of your channels. And you've always enjoyed picking on the little guy.

So you and Maurice (with his data filter switched on) head out and find a suitably pretty young thing (female of course, because again, you're not gay) and find her alone. You easily slice past her firewall, and transmit the output from her sim module into your own, so you can feel the shiver down her spine as she walks through the dark alley, you feel the light wind on the goosebumps of her exposed skin, you feel her scream catch in her throat as Maurice grabs her. And you can guess what happens from there. Mr corp wierdo gets his rocks off feeling the sensation of being brutally raped and then murdered by his hulking stooge. Maurice followed the instructions very carefully. He wore gloves and a condom. He empties a tin of gasoline over her and burns any evidence after Mr Corp has comprehensively wiped her commlink. The clothes are disposed of afterwards, the commlinks used wiped and dismantled, alibis are set up, and Maurice's data filter ensures that no-one never knows, except for mr corp, who shudders smiles in his limo home.
hermit
QUOTE
I was recently rereading Ghost in the Shell and it was great to re-encounter the scene where the Major is having hot lesbian sex with the help of AR applications.

Nope, sorry, full VR. Definitly. After all, when Bateau gets that call through (by forcing himself not to get lost by punching out one of his cybereyes) she sits up, disoriented, in a room with the other two girls (clothed) wired to some sort of console beside her. So, yeah, definitly full VR.

QUOTE
Unless something happens to bring about a new puritanism in the West (and the US is far more puritan than most of Europe) I don't see anything other than a progression toward an "Everything is Permitted" culture, and it's consistent with the Shadowrun material.

1) No offense to Americans, but HELL YEAH IT IS.
2) That's what the Sprawl Survival Guide said in it's sex chapter. Excluded are forced sex, sex with those unable to consent (minors, mentally impaired, coma patients), and other-sentient-species-sex is the currrent hot button issue, if I remember correctly.

QUOTE
So perhaps in 2070, ugliness is seen as something of a sin, when there's so much cheap, easy, safe, and socially acceptable cosmetic surgery for sale at the local mall.

I'd rather go with Neuromancer there. More precisely, with Ratz, the chatsubo barkeep, whose uglyness in a world of readily available beauty is his trademark. It makes you different, stick out, interesting. Sure, in some circles, it might be a sin, but in others, especially subcultures that fashion themselves mandatory, it might be a sin to be pretty.

QUOTE
Also reminds me of a page in Transmetropolitan. A guy has just gotten a new penis, and the fact that they were made in a sweatshop by underage workers doesn't bother him in the least. It's just like his old penis, but has a minidisc player.

One of the first things I thought of when reading through arsenal, too.

QUOTE
Or a mage with a rating 1 sustaining focus (or quickening) walking around with a force 1 orgasm spell on themselves.

He'd die of high blood pressure fairly soon. It'd burst his heart. An orgasm is rather stressful to the body (hence all these old men dying of sex after taking viagra, while their bodies aren't fit enough to handle the stress anymore). Plus, I bet it would be HIGHLY disorienting.

QUOTE
I'm sure with the vampires and ghouls wandering about that necropheliacs are pretty happy too, the only thing they have to worry about is not catching HMHVV.

QUOTE
You know they are going to be huge in the goth set, though... How many of the ones who are REALLY into it are going to turn down sex with an actual vampire?

Too bad you guys don't have access to the second Germany Sourcebook, really. In the Leipzig chapter (which seemingly is the centerpoint of european Goth culture), this is covered extensively. Also sexual magic rituals performed by european witches.

QUOTE
Also, one no-one has mentioned. The RAS Override. Restrainers, blindfolds and classic cuffs are pretty standard sexual practices these days. Now imagine if your girlfriend's RAS over-ride is at your mental command. They're not just restrained, they can not move a muscle. They can't scream. They can't do a thing. They can still feel though. Now imagine the abuses. Imagine the cover-ups after sexcapades go wrong, and there's no safe-word anymore.

Yeap, this form of sex slavery has been around in the SR world for some time (I believe it was introduced with the Underworld book).

QUOTE
You think a supplementary sexual organ is depraved? Think of the gengineers who dabble in a bit of "erotic art" for the original gene-work pieces. Something that is all orifices for you and your buddies to come over and enjoy comes to mind.

Nice idea, but only a very, very niche product, with the high availability of complex biosculpting and it's equally high illegality. Quite likely something Tamanous does on the sidelines.

And Rape beetles are very old, too. Sure, now you get it live. But that's hardly a new idea either.
Neondante
Sir_Psycho, you are aptly named. biggrin.gif

KCKitsune
I'm thinking about the Furry Scene (anthropomorphic kind) and the other kinky cliques. Is it bestiality if your "Partner" is sentient (shapechanger)?

What about the Mr. Corp (from Sir_Psycho's post above) who likes the idea of some pretty young girl getting raped by a Hell Hound? With a sim rig in the Hell Hound Mr Corp can be in for the ride and feel what it's like to "Let the Beast run Free!" He can also feel what it's like to EAT the poor girl without tainting himself... at least physically... spiritually, the fragger's soul is toast.

Here's another kink that can be satisfied "safely" in the world of SR and Hot Sim: Incest. Have some wage mage use a Control spell and make brother/sister, mother/son, father/daughter, mother/daughter, and/or father/son have sex. Make it so that they are attracted to one another and let "nature" take it's course. With a Sim rig you can have all the thrill of Taboo without the "moral baggage" of screwing your own family.
hermit
Paedophilia also comes to mind. Though personafixes are much cheaper than mages controlling minds left and right, y'know ...
Neondante
QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Mar 11 2008, 07:47 AM) *
I'm thinking about the Furry Scene (anthropomorphic kind) and the other kinky cliques. Is it bestiality if your "Partner" is sentient (shapechanger)?


I seem to remember hearing about a furry porn star in one of the SURGE books... not sure about that, though.

QUOTE
What about the Mr. Corp (from Sir_Psycho's post above) who likes the idea of some pretty young girl getting raped by a Hell Hound? With a sim rig in the Hell Hound Mr Corp can be in for the ride and feel what it's like to "Let the Beast run Free!"
... That actually sounds a bit fun, rape aside. Make it a sentient werewolf and a consenting partner and I'm in biggrin.gif Reminds me of that movie Wolf... embracing your ID seems like it would be a lot of fun. And I'll bet a surprising amount of women would enjoy it too.
Rasumichin
QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Mar 11 2008, 01:47 PM) *
I'm thinking about the Furry Scene (anthropomorphic kind) and the other kinky cliques. Is it bestiality if your "Partner" is sentient (shapechanger)?

What about the Mr. Corp (from Sir_Psycho's post above) who likes the idea of some pretty young girl getting raped by a Hell Hound? With a sim rig in the Hell Hound Mr Corp can be in for the ride and feel what it's like to "Let the Beast run Free!" He can also feel what it's like to EAT the poor girl without tainting himself... at least physically... spiritually, the fragger's soul is toast.

Here's another kink that can be satisfied "safely" in the world of SR and Hot Sim: Incest. Have some wage mage use a Control spell and make brother/sister, mother/son, father/daughter, mother/daughter, and/or father/son have sex. Make it so that they are attracted to one another and let "nature" take it's course. With a Sim rig you can have all the thrill of Taboo without the "moral baggage" of screwing your own family.


That already came up last year in the Munich sourcebook.
That's the second time a German sourcebook has already introduced stuff brought up in this thread...don't really want to know what that says about us...


As far as the whole hellhound stuff is concerned...just one word.
Biodrones.
hermit
QUOTE
That's the second time a German sourcebook has already introduced stuff brought up in this thread...don't really want to know what that says about us...

We're not exactly prudes?
swirler
QUOTE (Cardul @ Mar 11 2008, 12:29 AM) *
Remember the Male dwarf fixer mentioned in Arsenal who prefers payment in male troll sex?
I guess that puts the "arse" in Arsenal. rotfl.gif
Neondante
QUOTE (hermit @ Mar 11 2008, 08:19 AM) *
We're not exactly prudes?


From what I've heard, the German government itself is somewhat censor ready. I heard that the German version of the game Command and Conquer was edited so the blood in the tiny little army men was black, so they were robots, for example.

And, if Japan is any indication, what happens when you have a censor heavy government?

Tentacles happen, that's what. I mean... GGG ring a bell to anyone?

If not, I ain't gonna explain it, for fear of self incrimination. nyahnyah.gif


mfb
or recrimination.
Neondante
QUOTE (mfb @ Mar 11 2008, 09:35 AM) *
or recrimination.

My lips are sealed.
Sir_Psycho
QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Mar 11 2008, 08:47 AM) *
What about the Mr. Corp (from Sir_Psycho's post above) who likes the idea of some pretty young girl getting raped by a Hell Hound? With a sim rig in the Hell Hound Mr Corp can be in for the ride and feel what it's like to "Let the Beast run Free!" He can also feel what it's like to EAT the poor girl without tainting himself... at least physically... spiritually, the fragger's soul is toast.


He gets to taste but doesn't have to pick the viscera from his teeth afterwards. That's good, and by good I mean bad. But good.
Rasumichin
QUOTE (Neondante @ Mar 11 2008, 02:31 PM) *
From what I've heard, the German government itself is somewhat censor ready. I heard that the German version of the game Command and Conquer was edited so the blood in the tiny little army men was black, so they were robots, for example.

And, if Japan is any indication, what happens when you have a censor heavy government?

Tentacles happen, that's what. I mean... GGG ring a bell to anyone?

If not, I ain't gonna explain it, for fear of self incrimination. nyahnyah.gif


Yeah, recently, the political climate has been rather repressive as far as violence in computer games is concerned.
Germany is not exactly more liberal than the US.
We just have different taboos, partially because we lack a puritan tradition here, so there's gay marriage, legal prostitution and stuff.
But as soon as there's one kid running amok at school, Counterstrike is perceived as the root of all evil.

Japan is also an interesting case.
They've got all this tentacle rape porn stuff and whatnot, but as far as i've heard, you are not allowed to show genitalia.
Even in hardcore porn, any penis will get pixelled over.
hermit
QUOTE (Neondante @ Mar 11 2008, 02:31 PM) *
From what I've heard, the German government itself is somewhat censor ready. I heard that the German version of the game Command and Conquer was edited so the blood in the tiny little army men was black, so they were robots, for example.

Sure, but that's all about violence and promoting terrorism, war and havoc. Germans tend to be a tad paranoid about promoting war. Generally speaking, the German Federal Censorship Board comes down on violence as much as the FCC on anthing sexual. Luckily for gamers, europe is that patchwork of nations, most of which are a lot more enlightened concerning violence in games.

By prudes, I meant less hesistant on sexual topics. Violence is, for all I know, not included there.
Neondante
QUOTE (Sir_Psycho @ Mar 11 2008, 09:45 AM) *
He gets to taste but doesn't have to pick the viscera from his teeth afterwards. That's good, and by good I mean bad. But good.


I have no idea what you just said. wobble.gif

QUOTE (Rasumichin @ Mar 11 2008, 09:55 AM) *
Yeah, recently, the political climate has been rather repressive as far as violence in computer games is concerned.
Germany is not exactly more liberal than the US.
We just have different taboos, partially because we lack a puritan tradition here, so there's gay marriage, legal prostitution and stuff.
But as soon as there's one kid running amok at school, Counterstrike is perceived as the root of all evil.

Japan is also an interesting case.
They've got all this tentacle rape porn stuff and whatnot, but as far as i've heard, you are not allowed to show genitalia.
Even in hardcore porn, any penis will get pixelled over.


Yeah, that's exactly what I mean about Japan. They aren't allowed to show genitalia uncensored, so they circumvent that by either having a tiny black line on it, or by making the rest of it as obscene as possible. Censorship in the states, on the other hand, is nearly non existent, so people just go ahead and make the same insipid unimaginative crap over and over. Though there are, of course, exceptions. Like this thread. Kind of.

Wow, that paragraph made me sound like an elitist AND a pervert. I feel special. biggrin.gif

I'm glad to hear you don't have the puritanical tradition. There may not be much censorship across the pond, but the laws and society are very repressive sometimes.
KCKitsune
QUOTE (Neondante @ Mar 11 2008, 10:14 AM) *
I have no idea what you just said. wobble.gif


He's talking about all the gooey bits from the girl being eaten by the Hell Hound.


QUOTE (Neondante @ Mar 11 2008, 10:14 AM) *
Yeah, that's exactly what I mean about Japan. They aren't allowed to show genitalia uncensored, so they circumvent that by either having a tiny black line on it, or by making the rest of it as obscene as possible. Censorship in the states, on the other hand, is nearly non existent, so people just go ahead and make the same insipid unimaginative crap over and over. Though there are, of course, exceptions. Like this thread. Kind of.

Wow, that paragraph made me sound like an elitist AND a pervert. I feel special. biggrin.gif


I think we can all assume that in the Shadowrun Universe the only censoring is in the minds of little old ladies who have heart attacks when they see that their "laws" regarding censoring and keeping porn out of the hands of children are not enforced... at ALL. I mean let's face it, if Lone Star is going to go after either Shadowrunners or Child Porn... who do you think that they'll go for. The answer is 'Runners because it's possible to catch them. With child porn, where are the files coming from? Where were they uploaded Do they have a valid SIN? Is it even that bad compared to 'Runners kill a dozen people?
hermit
QUOTE
Censorship in the states, on the other hand, is nearly non existent

Erhm ... it is? what about 'Nipplegate' then, and the censorship options implemented into live broadcasts afterwards? Hunh? What about that loon prosecutor crusading against GTA San Andreas becaus of a stupid little sex game hidden deep within it's code? If that's not censorship, then what is it?

QUOTE
I'm glad to hear you don't have the puritanical tradition. There may not be much censorship across the pond, but the laws and society are very repressive sometimes.

Indeed. Thank you, Chales II, and DAMN YOU, Cromwell.

QUOTE
I think we can all assume that in the Shadowrun Universe the only censoring is in the minds of little old ladies who have heart attacks when they see that their "laws" regarding censoring and keeping porn out of the hands of children are not enforced... at ALL.

I would expect a lot more active moral policing in the CAS. After all, that's pretty much the Bible Belt's heartlands.

QUOTE
I mean let's face it, if Lone Star is going to go after either Shadowrunners or Child Porn... who do you think that they'll go for. The answer is 'Runners because it's possible to catch them. With child porn, where are the files coming from? Where were they uploaded Do they have a valid SIN? Is it even that bad compared to 'Runners kill a dozen people?

Child Porn is still everyone's favourite hate pet in SR4. It's in Emergence, I think, this is mentioned. Also, SSG mentions that that's a big no-go for what the majority cares. So, LSSS will certainly go after the Child Porn ring too. If they can't find any conclusive evidence, they'll just blame the runners, once they're caught, for operating that kiddie porn ring, too, nefarious as they are.
Neondante
QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Mar 11 2008, 10:30 AM) *
He's talking about all the gooey bits from the girl being eaten by the Hell Hound.

I got that, thanks. I meant the good bad part at the end. nyahnyah.gif




QUOTE
I think we can all assume that in the Shadowrun Universe the only censoring is in the minds of little old ladies who have heart attacks when they see that their "laws" regarding censoring and keeping porn out of the hands of children are not enforced... at ALL. I mean let's face it, if Lone Star is going to go after either Shadowrunners or Child Porn... who do you think that they'll go for. The answer is 'Runners because it's possible to catch them. With child porn, where are the files coming from? Where were they uploaded Do they have a valid SIN? Is it even that bad compared to 'Runners kill a dozen people?


It says in the basic book something along the lines of the government has given up on the more vanilla aspects of sexuality, such as sexual orientation, prostitution, etc. I'd bet that child pornography is still very much a crime, and one that is still taken very seriously, because A: while I'm guessing victimless crimes like prostitution are simply not important enough for the star to deal with, busting a kiddy porn ring would be great press for them, and a feather in their caps, wheras a scandal involving said sleazebags would mean a huge dive in their stock prices. Hm... gives me an idea for a snoop job run.

And B: While the CEO and shareholders probably don't give a damn about right and wrong, Joe Q. Beatcop probably would love to get his hands on the people making it. In the prisons of today, if a child molester goes to prison and the others find out what he's in for, he will as often as not die at the hands of the other prisoners, even the ones who have killed a dozen people. Runners kill security guards and other types like that... while I'm sure the star would love to get their hands on the cop killers, ALL child pornographers are abusing children. Harming an innocent, especially a child, is a much greater crime in most people's minds then shooting an armed mook.

And C: A child molester MAY have a gun. A Shadowrunner is almost always heavily armed, just as if not more paranoid, knows how to use his weapons, and may be packed to the gills with cybernetics and the like. Runners also tend to have access to spells other then mind control, sleep, and minimal healing that would benefit the pornographers. So am I going to want to try to arrest the loser who hurts children for a living, or the heavily armed violent sociopath that kills people for a living? Depends on the cop, I'm guessing.
mfb
QUOTE (hermit)
Erhm ... it is? what about 'Nipplegate' then, and the censorship options implemented into live broadcasts afterwards? Hunh? What about that loon prosecutor crusading against GTA San Andreas becaus of a stupid little sex game hidden deep within it's code? If that's not censorship, then what is it?

it's protecting the children! won't you think of the children?

seriously, though, while there certainly is a very strong puritanical streak in american culture, there's also a difference between regulation and censorship. certain materials are not deemed suitable for public broadcast-- that is to say, you can't put them out on standard television or radio channels, you can't slap them up on billboards, you can't show them anywhere that the public could unwittingly encounter them. it's basically an opt-in system; in order to view certain materials, you must be of age and consenting. but you can view the materials, with rare exception.

and as far as Jack Thompson goes, well, he has his supporters, but he's also well on his way to being disbarred. he's basically an ambulance chaser writ large; while his actions can be considered to underline the popularity of certain conservative notions, they can't be considered to represent the actual laws or judicial leanings of his government--especially in light of how frequently and spectacularly he's failed to effect any change. he makes big noise about his victories, but most of those were in cases of obvious, flagrant violation, like the hot coffee mod.
the_dunner
This is a MODERATOR POST

As a reminder of the Dumpshock Terms of Service
QUOTE ("Terms of Service")
4. Discussion of politics, religion, and sex are prohibited, except as they directly pertain to Shadowrun or another game. Discussions on these subjects will be watched closely, and any innapropriate posts may result in warnings or suspensions.

Discussion of alternative sources of eroticism as they pertain to Shadowrun is definitely on-topic and acceptable for this thread. Discussions about modern censorship and alternative government approaches is NOT on-topic nor is it acceptable for this thread.

Please keep the thread on topic. If it continues to stray, it may become locked.
Neondante
Edit: 0.o Sorry Mods! That's the last I'll say about it. Didn't see the post until after I hit reply.

Edit Edit: Post self censored. Basically what mfb said. nyahnyah.gif
Momijizukamori
Maybe someone mentioned it and I missed it, but for Joe and Jane Average, cybersex is probably waaaay more common, because it's as good as the real thing - you don't need shapechangers or gene-sculpting to have kinky furry sex, just some well-programmed icons and a decent feedback system in you commlink.

Which leads me to wonder, on the fringe side of things, if you can have sex with an AI, and if so, what the hell that feels like (probably however the AI wants it to feel like, I bet).
Neondante
QUOTE (Momijizukamori @ Mar 11 2008, 11:12 AM) *
Which leads me to wonder, on the fringe side of things, if you can have sex with an AI, and if so, what the hell that feels like (probably however the AI wants it to feel like, I bet).


I imagine it's great until SHODAN gets bored with you... and hell hath no fury like an insane AI with a black hammer program and access to your nervous system...

Also, if she offers you cake, you might want to be a little suspicious.
swirler
QUOTE (hermit @ Mar 11 2008, 08:42 AM) *
Erhm ... it is? what about 'Nipplegate' then, and the censorship options implemented into live broadcasts afterwards? Hunh? What about that loon prosecutor crusading against GTA San Andreas because of a stupid little sex game hidden deep within it's code? If that's not censorship, then what is it?

okay you are going to make me do something I HATE which is agree with the FCC and the ratings board, both of which I despise, not because of what they are supposed to do, but for how stupidly they do it. The nipple thing, it violated FCC regulations pure and simple. You break a law you go to jail (or at least you are supposed, well or get fined, you know what I mean). You violate the FCC you get fined. Censorship is more along the lines of "You can't do that anywhere." What people often say is censorship, is more times than not "You can't do that here at this particular place/venue, what have you, due to established rules and regulations". The video game rating system (in theory) is not censorship. It is labeling as to the content contained within. Harsher content, harsher rating. It gives people a structure to decide what to play (or sell in the case of stores) The "hot coffee" thing in GTA would have warranted a higher rating, if it had been known at the time. Now do not think I support the rating system the way it is. It is corrupt as any corporation. It takes money for ratings and the way it is handled is insane. I do believe that the idea behind it is sound though. People need some structure to base their choices on.

EXTREME LUDICROUS EXAMPLE TIME:
Imagine if you will parent X. There is no rating system in place and they see this Preview. They would think "Wow that is so uplifting! I want my kids to see that movie!"

again it's kinda extreme, but it shows my point.
paws2sky
Pretty vanilla compared to a low of what's here, but... maybe that's what Jill and Joe Wageslave might be looking for...

"Shared sensation" simsense was something my gaming group (miss)used back in the SR2 days.

The basic version was a little black box that you and a partner could jack into. It was designed and marketted as a marital aid, allowing you to use real-time simsense filtering to mute or enhance sensations. The idea was that you and your partner could find the ideal setting so you'd always have great sex.

The designers failed to realize how easy the systems would be to modify. The device was only on the market for about a year before the corporate courts ordered the units to to be recalled because of rampant abuse and misuse. Of course, as soon as the recall was announced, a number of business people bought up, 'lost', or reported 'stolen' thousands of the units before they were actually pulled from the shelves.

Some of the odder things you could do...

1) You could mingle sensations between partners, effectively becoming the person you're with. Taking this to an extreme, you switch places with your partner.

2) You could feed multiple signals through the unit at once, allowing you to experience everything happening in an orgy. The resulting heart attack of a high level Fuchi executive at one such party was what caused the corporate court to start investigating the devices.

3) Parlors openned where you could jack into a central processor, then switch places with any of the other patrons. These were much like a modern swingers clubs, but with the added security of being physical with your regular partner.

4) You could output the simsense feed to a recording device, making cheap, custom simsense tracks. With an editting board, you could spike the sensations on the tracks up to BTL levels. This was the exact opposite of what the creators wanted, because after one encounter, which may not have even been your own, you could relive the 'perfect" night over and over again without ever being with another person.

5) You could enhance the pain a person experienced, which made it an ideal torture device. Worse still, you could torture someone else and make the person you want info from experience it. Again, with some tweaking you could even get it up to BTL level causing the suffering to become addictive. Using the pre-recorded track idea, you'd only have to put someone through the wringer once, then you'd be able to reuse the trck over and over again.
Neondante
QUOTE (paws2sky @ Mar 11 2008, 11:48 AM) *
2) You could feed multiple signals through the unit at once, allowing you to experience everything happening in an orgy. The resulting heart attack of a high level Fuchi executive at one such party was what caused the corporate court to start investigating the devices.


Gentlemen, I've decided how I want to die.
hermit
QUOTE
You violate the FCC you get fined. Censorship is more along the lines of "You can't do that anywhere."

No, it isn't. Censorship is the state saying "our regulations say you mustn't broadcast this". Be that criticism of president Putin, a documentary about the ills the three gorges dam is causing, unislamic raunchy dancing, extreme violence or Janet Jackson's nipples, doesn't change the fact all this constitutes censorship.

Sorry, dear mods, but I had to settle this. No more comments from me on this topic, promise. I'll be a good boy. wink.gif

QUOTE
Pretty vanilla compared to a low of what's here, but... maybe that's what Jill and Joe Wageslave might be looking for...

Most people actually aren't perverted enough to feel aroused by tentacle rape by toxic spirit, yes. The kinky stuff is, and always will be, a niche business.

Also, Target: Matrix mentioned two major Sex sites in SR: Moonlight Hentai and Naughty Habits, if I am not mistaken, were the names.

QUOTE
The basic version was a little black box that you and a partner could jack into. It was designed and marketted as a marital aid, allowing you to use real-time simsense filtering to mute or enhance sensations. The idea was that you and your partner could find the ideal setting so you'd always have great sex.

The designers failed to realize how easy the systems would be to modify. The device was only on the market for about a year before the corporate courts ordered the units to to be recalled because of rampant abuse and misuse. Of course, as soon as the recall was announced, a number of business people bought up, 'lost', or reported 'stolen' thousands of the units before they were actually pulled from the shelves.

That's basically the "Motoko Kusanagi's Sex Life in A Box"-device. I think Shadowbeat hinted you could just modify an existing full-x simsense deck to that effect. Of course, a cyberdeck (computer/commlink) hosting an environment, and the users using their own little decks (links) and appropriate persona suites and biofeedback programs could easily engage in cybersex in their own little fantasy environment.

Also, this could easily be modified into something sinister such as Shadowdancer's "lets torture Sharon" device.

QUOTE
3) Parlors openned where you could jack into a central processor, then switch places with any of the other patrons. These were much like a modern swingers clubs, but with the added security of being physical with your regular partner.

Considering that everyone would be in VR in someone else's body and incapable of controlling it (unless everybody in this orgy has a biodrone manipulation cyberware set installed) would make this the experience of someone's comatose body, which might be a little boring.

QUOTE
4) You could output the simsense feed to a recording device, making cheap, custom simsense tracks. With an editting board, you could spike the sensations on the tracks up to BTL levels. This was the exact opposite of what the creators wanted, because after one encounter, which may not have even been your own, you could relive the 'perfect" night over and over again without ever being with another person.

Not to be picky, but in what way exactly is that different from specially recorded Beetles?

QUOTE
5) You could enhance the pain a person experienced, which made it an ideal torture device. Worse still, you could torture someone else and make the person you want info from experience it. Again, with some tweaking you could even get it up to BTL level causing the suffering to become addictive. Using the pre-recorded track idea, you'd only have to put someone through the wringer once, then you'd be able to reuse the trck over and over again.

something along the lines of this was mentioned in one of the underworld books - a specialised cerebral booster screwing with the brain's pleasure center so that a modded sex slave actually begged to be tortured, as the slave found pain extremely pleasing.

Personally, though, I do think most Joes and Janes will not go that far into kinkyness. People will still have (slightly varied) ordinary sex with their Joe/Jane of choice (treesomes might fly as soemthing comparatively common, but anything abouvefour people will just get messy and leave someone feeling ignored), and that fully without torture, VR bodyswitching/multiple body sensations at once, or tentacled toxic dikote'd hellhound spirit rapes.
KCKitsune
QUOTE (Momijizukamori @ Mar 11 2008, 11:12 AM) *
Maybe someone mentioned it and I missed it, but for Joe and Jane Average, cybersex is probably waaaay more common, because it's as good as the real thing - you don't need shapechangers or gene-sculpting to have kinky furry sex, just some well-programmed icons and a decent feedback system in you commlink.


Yes, but every person who does that in cyberspace, there is at least one person who wants to do that in the real world. Let's face it, fantasy is cool and guilt free, but sometimes, NOTHING beats the real world.


QUOTE (Momijizukamori @ Mar 11 2008, 11:12 AM) *
Which leads me to wonder, on the fringe side of things, if you can have sex with an AI, and if so, what the hell that feels like (probably however the AI wants it to feel like, I bet).


I would think that the AI would have sex only to please it's partner. It would not have any desires out of that. As for what it can feel like... since I think the AI can screw with your sense of time, it can make an orgasm feel like it's going on for ages (it'll have to stop it before it kills you, but you get the picture.) love.gif
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