Dumpshock Forums > [HELP] Shadowrun4 GM'ing Question

Aaron

Apr 26 2008, 03:34 AM

QUOTE (DTFarstar @ Apr 25 2008, 10:44 AM)

I wish the battlemat we had was dry-erase. IT is wet erase and stain easily.

Melamine. It's really cheap, and works fine as a dry-erase surface. In fact, when I converted the chalk boards in my lab to white boards, I just bought two 4x8 sheets of the stuff and clamped them in place using the chalkboard housing. It's been there for three years and still works great.

PalaNolho

Apr 27 2008, 07:46 PM

Your are giving me a really good help. Thank you guys ( and girls ir any arround lol )

Any help on the Drones/Vehicles part ??

QUOTE

Drones, vehicle and Riggers:
- vehicle can be controled manually, remotly, or "jumped into" (right?)
- drones can be controled remotly or "jumped into" (right?)

As the "jumped into" part of the control, the rigger become the drone/vehicle, so on the players turn, he drone/veichle acts.
And what about when you are controling it remotly?

Does any vehicle/drone act alone as the rigger command him to?

How does it work in combat, lets say, a rigger that has 2 flying drones that can shoot at people. How would it work?
( i like rigger but im getting dificult in "how to handle" them sarcastic.gif )

Crusher Bob

Apr 28 2008, 06:49 AM

The program that controls a drone when you are not jumped into it is called a pilot program.

A drone operating on its own has an initiative or its response + pilot rating and gets 3 IP (BBB p158, Vehicle Initiative)

When shooting at drones operating on their own, they have a passive defense of pilot +/- the drones handling (BBB p161, Attacks Against Vehicles).

For shooting, drones roll Pilot + targeting autosoft (BBB p162, Drones and Gunnery)

PalaNolho

Apr 28 2008, 09:04 AM

Thanks

Just one more thing. Wich book is BBB ?

Regards.

Crusher Bob

Apr 28 2008, 09:07 AM

Big Black/Blue Book, the main rule book.

PalaNolho

Apr 28 2008, 11:21 AM

Thanks

Another one:

Healing Spell:
- im not understanding how does this spell works, specially the part hat says "only work unce for one set of wounds"

Anyone can explai it in a simple way?

thanks

Crusher Bob

Apr 28 2008, 12:23 PM

Guy Allen is in fight, gets hit for 6 boxes of damage, goes to mage saying 'heeeeaal!" Mage cast spell at force 4, gets 4 hits on spell, heals 4 boxes. Mage buddy cannot cast heal again to heal the last two boxes, as magical healing has already been cast on that injury.

Later Allan gets into another fight, taking another 7 boxes (bringing him to total of 9 boxes of damage). He goes crawling to mage buddy again. Mage buddy pulls out all the stops, cast heal at force 8, and spends edge. With lucky dice roll, mage gets 8 hits on healing spell this time, but sadly can only heal 7 boxes (bringing Allen back down to two). He can't heal the last two boxes since that set of injuries had already had heal cast on it earlier.

Fortune

Apr 28 2008, 01:42 PM

Shadowrun Rule # 13: Always use First Aid before using any magical healing.

PalaNolho

Apr 28 2008, 02:16 PM

QUOTE (Crusher Bob @ Apr 28 2008, 01:23 PM)

Guy Allen is in fight, gets hit for 6 boxes of damage, goes to mage saying 'heeeeaal!" Mage cast spell at force 4, gets 4 hits on spell, heals 4 boxes. Mage buddy cannot cast heal again to heal the last two boxes, as magical healing has already been cast on that injury.

Later Allan gets into another fight, taking another 7 boxes (bringing him to total of 9 boxes of damage). He goes crawling to mage buddy again. Mage buddy pulls out all the stops, cast heal at force 8, and spends edge. With lucky dice roll, mage gets 8 hits on healing spell this time, but sadly can only heal 7 boxes (bringing Allen back down to two). He can't heal the last two boxes since that set of injuries had already had heal cast on it earlier.

So let me see if i got it right. lets say AA has 5 boxes and the mage heals 3 boxes. So AA has 2 boxes remaining. Thouse 2 boxes can only be healed with magic IF they increase ( like if he get another shoot and gain 1 more box of damage/stun) so AA will have 4 boxes and the Mage can try again.

Did i get it correctly ??

If im not wrong first aid works on the same way right ?

DireRadiant

Apr 28 2008, 02:23 PM

QUOTE (PalaNolho @ Apr 20 2008, 02:56 PM)

Greetings everyone.

I would like to ask some questions since im new to Shadowrun setting and system and to the GMing buisness. So.. here it goes:

Ressuscitation and Clones:
- anyone know it is it possible, how that can it be done and how does it work? (when charecter reaches damage overflow or passes the maximum overflow)

You can burn the Edge and live... the "Story" reason might be resuscitation.

Crusher Bob

Apr 28 2008, 02:25 PM

Normal rule interpretation is that the two boxes left over after the first magical healing can't be healed by further magical healing attempts either. They have to be healed naturally. Even is Allen takes more boxes, he can only be magically healed down to two boxes.

So:

1st fight:
Allen takes 4 boxes.
Mage buddy heals 2 boxes.
Allen has 2 boxes 'unhealable'

----------

2nd fight
Allen takes 4 more boxes (is now at 6 boxes total)
Mage buddy heals 3 boxes
Allen has 3 boxes of damage 'unhealable'

-----------

3rd fight
Allen takes 5 boxes (is now at 9 boxes total)
Mage buddy gets 9 hits on healing spell, but can only heal Allen down to 3 boxes of damage, since those 3 boxes are 'unhealable'. Allen will have to rest up so that those 3 boxes heal naturally. Note that there are plenty of things to speed natural healing times, and even unassisted natural healing by RAW is very fast.

---------------

The thing Fortune is alluding to is that first aid can't be used after magical healing, but magical healing can be used after first aid.

Nightwalker450

Apr 28 2008, 02:25 PM

QUOTE (PalaNolho @ Apr 28 2008, 09:16 AM)

So let me see if i got it right. lets say AA has 5 boxes and the mage heals 3 boxes. So AA has 2 boxes remaining. Thouse 2 boxes can only be healed with magic IF they increase ( like if he get another shoot and gain 1 more box of damage/stun) so AA will have 4 boxes and the Mage can try again.

Did i get it correctly ??

If im not wrong first aid works on the same way right ?

No, those 2 boxes will only be healed by bedrest. Once magic has been used it can't be used again for that damage. First Aid works the same, except that after First Aid you can apply Magic Healing (not vice-versa).

EDIT: Crusher Bob beat me to the punch..

Tarantula

Apr 28 2008, 02:33 PM

I don't like the interpretation that if you take 3 boxes, get magically healed for 2, and then take 3 more, and get healed for the full 4 that it doesn't work. Why? Too much bookeeping. Oh, I got this wound from that devil rat, and didn't quite get healed, so I can't heal my first box. And this one from that ganger, but my mage is horrible at healing today, so now I can't heal my first 3 boxes. And so on.

Also, how does this work with the heal DV? Since its the damage you're healing, if you have someone who takes 3 boxes of damage, gets healed for one, then takes 4 more (total of 6 now) does the DV for heal go off the 4 you can possibly heal, or the full 6? Why should it be the full 6 if you can't heal them?

I'm of the opinion that if you get injured again, you can heal up the full amount, and the heal spell uses the full amount of boxes to base its DV off of. Less bookkeeping, less headache, and if any runners really want to shoot themselves in the foot to give the mage another chance...... well, lets just say it'll be a composure test at the least.

Shiloh

Apr 28 2008, 02:35 PM

QUOTE (PalaNolho @ Apr 28 2008, 03:16 PM)

So let me see if i got it right. lets say AA has 5 boxes and the mage heals 3 boxes. So AA has 2 boxes remaining. Thouse 2 boxes can only be healed with magic IF they increase...

Not quite. They can't be healed with magic at all. Ever. But any *increase* in damagedness can.

QUOTE

...( like if he get another shoot and gain [2] more box of damage/stun) so AA will have 4 boxes and the Mage can try again.

But the most the mage can heal is the two *new* ones. And just to remind you can't heal *Stun* track damage with magic. This is to prevent Mages healing themselves of damage inflicted by Drain.

QUOTE

If im not wrong first aid works on the same way right ?

Yep. But since you don't take Drain from First Aid, it's best to apply that first to any "wounds" that can be treated so that your Heal spells can be cast at lower Force and you take less Drain.

deek

Apr 28 2008, 02:37 PM

QUOTE (Tarantula @ Apr 28 2008, 10:33 AM)

I don't like the interpretation that if you take 3 boxes, get magically healed for 2, and then take 3 more, and get healed for the full 4 that it doesn't work. Why? Too much bookeeping. Oh, I got this wound from that devil rat, and didn't quite get healed, so I can't heal my first box. And this one from that ganger, but my mage is horrible at healing today, so now I can't heal my first 3 boxes. And so on.

Also, how does this work with the heal DV? Since its the damage you're healing, if you have someone who takes 3 boxes of damage, gets healed for one, then takes 4 more (total of 6 now) does the DV for heal go off the 4 you can possibly heal, or the full 6? Why should it be the full 6 if you can't heal them?

I'm of the opinion that if you get injured again, you can heal up the full amount, and the heal spell uses the full amount of boxes to base its DV off of. Less bookkeeping, less headache, and if any runners really want to shoot themselves in the foot to give the mage another chance...... well, lets just say it'll be a composure test at the least.

I don't think its too much bookkeeping...as its the players that track that sort of thing.

It does mention multiple times that healing is done per wounds. You can choose not to do it that way, but having a player with first aid in our group, it seems to work pretty well with players remembering what kind of wounds they have.

Nightwalker450

Apr 28 2008, 02:40 PM

Reading some answers, and realized I might be confused on something.

Is DV based on the damage the person you are healing has taken? Or is it based on the amount of damage you are healing?

If I heal 3 boxes on someone with 8 boxes of damage.... Is my DV based on the 3 or the 8?

deek

Apr 28 2008, 02:43 PM

QUOTE (Nightwalker450 @ Apr 28 2008, 10:40 AM)

Reading some answers, and realized I might be confused on something.

Is DV based on the damage the person you are healing has taken? Or is it based on the amount of damage you are healing?

If I heal 3 boxes on someone with 8 boxes of damage.... Is my DV based on the 3 or the 8?

It should be based on the wound. If that was one 8 box wound, then you have no choice but to base it off 8. But, if it was two 3 DV wounds and a 2 DV wound, then you are looking at three separate healing tests.

Nightwalker450

Apr 28 2008, 02:45 PM

QUOTE (deek @ Apr 28 2008, 09:43 AM)

It should be based on the wound. If that was one 8 box wound, then you have no choice but to base it off 8. But, if it was two 3 DV wounds and a 2 DV wound, then you are looking at three separate healing tests.

I go by "Set of wounds" as in all damage you've taken since you were last healed. 3 bullet wounds is 1 set of wounds.

Shiloh

Apr 28 2008, 02:47 PM

QUOTE (Nightwalker450 @ Apr 28 2008, 03:40 PM)

Reading some answers, and realized I might be confused on something.

Is DV based on the damage the person you are healing has taken? Or is it based on the amount of damage you are healing?

If I heal 3 boxes on someone with 8 boxes of damage.... Is my DV based on the 3 or the 8?

Or is it based on the 5 boxes you could, potentially, have healed (just assuming 3 had already been failed on by magic previously)...?

I don't think it matters whether it's 5 1pt scratches that are new, or one 5pt cratering round...

deek

Apr 28 2008, 06:40 PM

QUOTE (Shiloh @ Apr 28 2008, 09:47 AM)

Or is it based on the 5 boxes you could, potentially, have healed (just assuming 3 had already been failed on by magic previously)...?

I don't think it matters whether it's 5 1pt scratches that are new, or one 5pt cratering round...

But it does matter...in game, at least. Five 1pt scratches are a lot easier to heal than a single 5pt crater. We've got one person in the group with First Aid and he's not crazy-good at it. So, when someone needs healing, he'll ask how many boxes, the recipient will tell him and the healer rolls. He'll then ask if there are any more, so on and so forth. Stuff that is not healed, the recipient makes a note of and we move on.

If someone doesn't remember exactly, we'll estimate and with 5 people at the table (which includes the GM), we figure it out and agree.

I actually didn't instill this behavior, several of us interpreted the rules the same and ran with it...

Shiloh

Apr 29 2008, 11:02 AM

QUOTE (deek @ Apr 28 2008, 07:40 PM)

But it does matter...in game, at least. Five 1pt scratches are a lot easier to heal than a single 5pt crater...

Oh, absolutely. I meant that I didn't think the rules took it into account, so 5 x 1pt scratches *aren't* easier to heal unless you heal *in between each one*...

How much sense this makes... well, it's magic, so it's not required to make sense; whatever fits the tempo of your game. Healing many wounds, though, is going to mean sustaining many spells to permanent... Perhaps lumping "all damage since the last Heal" together is a good shorthand for the increasing difficulty of chain healing without fistfuls of foci.

PalaNolho

Apr 30 2008, 08:28 AM

QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Apr 25 2008, 11:13 AM)

The spell's force (chosen when cast) is the maximum number of hits (not net hits) you can apply from your Spellcasting test. Further, most spells have other effects determined by force - base damage for combat spells, the speed you can move objects with Levitate, etc.

so lets say um casting Force 5 Control Thoughts on someone. I roll 7 hit. So the other char will roll Spell Resist and only have to beat 5, right ??

About Spirits:
"Physical spirits have the power of Immunity to Normal Weapons. (pg 288) Giving them armor equal to twice there force against ALL attacks."

This only means that the spirit rolls (force x 2 dice + body) on defence roll, right ?

Muspellsheimr

Apr 30 2008, 08:43 AM

You can apply magical healing once per "set of wounds", which can be interpreted a few ways; wounds received sense the last time you were healed, wounds received sense the last time you were healed (categorized by type: Burn, Chemical, Bullet, etc.), and wounds received from each attack (tracked separately, my groups interpretation).

Any damage that magic failed to heal from a set of wounds can now only be healed naturally. I find it is effective to track damage taken with a / in the damage box, and any damage that cannot be healed, such as from a failed healing marked as an X. Use a small mark on the corner of the box to separate different "wound sets".

Tarantula

Apr 30 2008, 01:59 PM

QUOTE (PalaNolho @ Apr 30 2008, 01:28 AM)

so lets say um casting Force 5 Control Thoughts on someone. I roll 7 hit. So the other char will roll Spell Resist and only have to beat 5, right ??

About Spirits:
"Physical spirits have the power of Immunity to Normal Weapons. (pg 288) Giving them armor equal to twice there force against ALL attacks."

This only means that the spirit rolls (force x 2 dice + body) on defence roll, right ?

Depending on what you mean by defense test. Theres a couple various common terms for different tests.

Ranged Combat Defense test = Reaction
Melee combat defense test = Reaction + Melee Skill

Damage Resistance Test (What I think you meant) = Body + Armor.

In the case of spirits, yes, they roll body + armor (which is forcex2)

PalaNolho

Apr 30 2008, 04:59 PM

QUOTE

In the case of spirits, yes, they roll body + armor (which is forcex2)

Then the spirits are not completly immune to normal weapons, just have a big defence agains it ( even with 15 dices its possible to get less hits them the attacker )

Tarantula

Apr 30 2008, 06:06 PM

QUOTE (PalaNolho @ Apr 30 2008, 10:59 AM)

Then the spirits are not completly immune to normal weapons, just have a big defence agains it ( even with 15 dices its possible to get less hits them the attacker )

Correct. Note, that the Immunity to Normal Weapons power references the hardened armor power as well. If the power of the attack is less than the rating of the armor, the attack fails outright.

For example, force 4 spirit has 8 armor. You shoot it with a pistol for 7P. The spirit doesn't even roll anything, the attack fails because 7 < 8. Same spirit, you hit it with a sword that ends up doing 10P. Now the spirit rolls its body + armor to resist that damage.

deek

Apr 30 2008, 06:12 PM

QUOTE (Tarantula @ Apr 30 2008, 02:06 PM)

For example, force 4 spirit has 8 armor. You shoot it with a pistol for 7P. The spirit doesn't even roll anything, the attack fails because 7 < 8. Same spirit, you hit it with a sword that ends up doing 10P. Now the spirit rolls its body + armor to resist that damage.

There's a reaction test in there, too. So, you can outright miss the spirit, hit the spirit but not get past its armor, or actually hit it.

Personally, I think it would be better if there was a downgraded effect when actually hitting the spirit. Even the big damage, it should be reduced by something if the spirit has immunity...

Tarantula

Apr 30 2008, 06:24 PM

QUOTE (deek @ Apr 30 2008, 12:12 PM)

There's a reaction test in there, too. So, you can outright miss the spirit, hit the spirit but not get past its armor, or actually hit it.

Personally, I think it would be better if there was a downgraded effect when actually hitting the spirit. Even the big damage, it should be reduced by something if the spirit has immunity...

Yes, as I stipulated in my examples, it was already having hit the spirit and thus have the damage of the attack.

From the start of the round, it would be attack test vs spirits defense test.
Then compare damage to spirits armor, if less than attack negated, if greater than continue.
Roll spirits body + armor vs attacks damage.
Spirit takes damage, mark condition monitor and note damage penalties.

PalaNolho

Apr 30 2008, 08:56 PM

So let me see if i got it:

QUOTE

Hardened Armor:
Hardened Armor is even tougher than normal armor. If the modified Damage Value of an attack does not exceed the Armor rating (modified by Armor Penetration), then it bounces harmlessly off the critter; donâ€™t even bother to make a Damage Resistance Test. Otherwise, Hardened Armor provides both Ballistic and Impact armor equal to its rating.

Immunity:
A critter with Immunity has an enhanced resistance to a certain type of attack or affliction. The critter gains an â€œArmor ratingâ€? equal to twice its Magic against that damage. This Immunity Armor is treated as â€œhardenedâ€? protection (see Hardened Armor above), meaning that if the Damage Value does not exceed the Armor, then the attack automatically does no damage.

Immunity to Normal Weapons: This immunity applies
to all weapons that are not magical (weapon foci, spells, adept
or critter powers). If the critter has the Allergy weakness, then
the Immunity does not apply against non-magical attacks
made using the allergen.

Spirit Combat:
... Physical spirits have the power of Immunity to Normal Weapons (see p. 288), giving them Armor equal to twice their Force against all attacks. This makes powerful spirits virtually immune to most physical attacks.

This was what you were talking about right? so ANY spirit in phisical form has an Hardened Armor = Force x 2
Ok... now i see that Spirits are indeed fearse opponents lol

PalaNolho

May 1 2008, 03:45 PM

Another Question

Magic Initiation:
- does a character need to have 6 on MAgic to undergo Initiation?
- lets say i have buy 6 rank in magic but because of cyberware it decreses to 5. Can i enter initiation?

Spell

QUOTE

Increase [Attribute]
Type: P ï¿½â‚¬ï¿½ Range: T ï¿½â‚¬ï¿½ Duration: S ï¿½â‚¬ï¿½ DV: (F Ã· 2) ï¿½â‚¬â€œ 2
This spell increases an attribute (natural or augmented) on
a voluntary subject. A version of this spell exists for each Physical
and Mental attribute, but not for Special attributes (Initiative,
Edge, Essence, Magic, or Resonance). The Force of the spell must
equal or exceed the (augmented) value of the attribute being affected.
The attribute is increased by an amount equal to the hits
scored. Each attribute can only be affected by a single Increase
Attribute spell at a time.
Note that increasing an attribute may affect other derived
statistics (Increase Reaction also affects Initiative, for example,
while Increase Body will add extra boxes to the characterï¿½â‚¬â„¢s
Physical Condition Monitor for as long as the spell lasts).

lets say i have 5 Body and i cast this spell on Body. It i want go get 10 body, i need to use force 10 or force 5 qhen casting the spell?

thanks

Crusher Bob

May 1 2008, 03:50 PM

QUOTE (PalaNolho @ May 1 2008, 11:45 PM)

Another Question

Magic Initiation:
- does a character need to have 6 on MAgic to undergo Initiation?

No

QUOTE

- lets say i have buy 6 rank in magic but because of cyberware it decreses to 5. Can i enter initiation?

Yes

Nightwalker450

May 1 2008, 03:51 PM

Even people with Astral Sight, Spell Knack and Spirit Knack can initiate, and their magic never gets above 1.

HentaiZonga

May 1 2008, 03:52 PM

QUOTE (PalaNolho @ May 1 2008, 08:45 AM)

Another Question

Magic Initiation:
- does a character need to have 6 on MAgic to undergo Initiation?
- lets say i have buy 6 rank in magic but because of cyberware it decreses to 5. Can i enter initiation?

thanks

The way Initiation works is, you have to have a Magic rating equal to the grade you want to achieve. So, as long as you have a Magic of 1, you can Initiate. You'd have to have a Magic of 2 to Initiate twice, a Magic of 3 to Initiate 3 times, and so on. Each time you Initiate, it raises your attribute cap for Magic by 1.

So if you had a Magic of 6, you could Initiate 6 times (raising your cap to 12), and then you would have to spend Karma on raising Magic from 6 to 7 before you could Initiate again.

Shiloh

May 1 2008, 04:05 PM

QUOTE (PalaNolho @ Apr 30 2008, 09:56 PM)

So let me see if i got it:

QUOTE

Hardened Armor:
Hardened Armor is even tougher than normal armor. If the modified Damage Value of an attack does not exceed the Armor rating (modified by Armor Penetration), then it bounces harmlessly off the critter; donâ€™t even bother to make a Damage Resistance Test. Otherwise, Hardened Armor provides both Ballistic and Impact armor equal to its rating.

Immunity:
A critter with Immunity has an enhanced resistance to a certain type of attack or affliction. The critter gains an â€œArmor ratingâ€? equal to twice its Magic against that damage. This Immunity Armor is treated as â€œhardenedâ€? protection (see Hardened Armor above), meaning that if the Damage Value does not exceed the Armor, then the attack automatically does no damage.

Immunity to Normal Weapons: This immunity applies
to all weapons that are not magical (weapon foci, spells, adept
or critter powers). If the critter has the Allergy weakness, then
the Immunity does not apply against non-magical attacks
made using the allergen.

Spirit Combat:
... Physical spirits have the power of Immunity to Normal Weapons (see p. 288), giving them Armor equal to twice their Force against all attacks. This makes powerful spirits virtually immune to most physical attacks.

This was what you were talking about right? so ANY spirit in phisical form has an Hardened Armor = Force x 2
Ok... now i see that Spirits are indeed fearse opponents lol

Eek. I thought they were pretty scary when a F5 had 10 Armour to *roll*, but that looks like Immunity to Normal Weapons is a special/specific case of Immunity, and that makes 'em *right* scary! Small arms won't scratch 'em. Handy to know before tonight...

deek

May 1 2008, 04:07 PM

QUOTE (HentaiZonga @ May 1 2008, 10:52 AM)

The way Initiation works is, you have to have a Magic rating equal to the grade you want to achieve. So, as long as you have a Magic of 1, you can Initiate. You'd have to have a Magic of 2 to Initiate twice, a Magic of 3 to Initiate 3 times, and so on. Each time you Initiate, it raises your attribute cap for Magic by 1.

So if you had a Magic of 6, you could Initiate 6 times (raising your cap to 12), and then you would have to spend Karma on raising Magic from 6 to 7 before you could Initiate again.

Which is why I've never understood why mages fear losing essence so much? Granted, my campaigns have pretty high karma rewards, so that could be a big difference in my perception.

Shiloh

May 1 2008, 04:08 PM

QUOTE (HentaiZonga @ May 1 2008, 04:52 PM)

The way Initiation works is, you have to have a Magic rating equal to the grade you want to achieve. So, as long as you have a Magic of 1, you can Initiate. You'd have to have a Magic of 2 to Initiate twice, a Magic of 3 to Initiate 3 times, and so on. Each time you Initiate, it raises your attribute cap for Magic by 1.

So if you had a Magic of 6, you could Initiate 6 times (raising your cap to 12), and then you would have to spend Karma on raising Magic from 6 to 7 before you could Initiate again.

Heh. More old version assumptions catching up with me here. I had assumed Initiation added 1 to your Magic (and the cap).

HentaiZonga

May 1 2008, 04:13 PM

QUOTE (Shiloh @ May 1 2008, 09:08 AM)

Heh. More old version assumptions catching up with me here. I had assumed Initiation added 1 to your Magic (and the cap).

*nod* Making Magic a purchasable attribute was the best thing the developers ever did for Shadowrun. I wish I knew who's idea that was, so I could buy them a drink.

Shiloh

May 1 2008, 04:58 PM

QUOTE (deek @ May 1 2008, 05:07 PM)

Which is why I've never understood why mages fear losing essence so much? Granted, my campaigns have pretty high karma rewards, so that could be a big difference in my perception.

Essence loss lowers the cap and can eventually burn the mage out entirely... Initiation past about 3 ranks should be rare, costly and difficult. You can't buy back that point lost from Essence damage.

HentaiZonga

May 1 2008, 05:02 PM

QUOTE (Shiloh @ May 1 2008, 09:58 AM)

Essence loss lowers the cap and can eventually burn the mage out entirely... Initiation past about 3 ranks should be rare, costly and difficult. You can't buy back that point lost from Essence damage.

Realize, if you Initiate with a group and take an Ordeal every single time, you're paying the following to Initiate:

Grade 1 - 8 Karma
Grade 2 - 10 Karma
Grade 3 - 12 Karma
Grade 4 - 14 Karma
Grade 5 - 15 Karma

Past Grade 5, of course, you're generally better off just buying a new Metamagic technique outright. But to get from Grade 1 to 5 costs a minimum of 59 Karma - more if you build an Ally Spirit as one of your Ordeals.

Add onto this the cost of re-purchasing Magic (3 x new rating, so generally 15 to 18 to 'stay even'), and it can get pretty hefty.

Also: Your maximum Magic rating is equal to (Essence + Initiate Grade), round down, and your maximum Initiate grade is equal to your Magic rating.

deek

May 1 2008, 05:30 PM

Seeing I give out a base 10 karma per session, the limiting factor at my table is time, not to mention finding the mentor/group to initiate through.

I think I've got players with an average of 60-80 karma they haven't spent yet...yeah, things are different at my table.

HentaiZonga

May 1 2008, 05:34 PM

QUOTE (deek @ May 1 2008, 10:30 AM)

Seeing I give out a base 10 karma per session, the limiting factor at my table is time, not to mention finding the mentor/group to initiate through.

I think I've got players with an average of 60-80 karma they haven't spent yet...yeah, things are different at my table.

*nod* I used to Monty Hall my group's Karma, back in the day. According to Pg. 263 of the BBB, a good player should typically be getting about 5 Karma per session, maxing out to 11 if he does everything right and really shines in the process. 10's a little high, but not too terribly bad.

Keep in mind that there's a lot for an Awakened character to spend that on, though. I know my Mage typically blows through 18 Karma a pop just on Quickened spells and amusing Anchoring tricks.

PalaNolho

May 1 2008, 06:28 PM

Another Question:
- How many Sustaning focils can a character have active at same time?
- when using a sustaining focil to cast, the spell uses max force = focil power and the mage ad the force used from the focil to the spellcastin check or it uses his own magic atribut, but the force choosen cant be greater then the focil power?

About this spell:

QUOTE

Increase [Attribute]
Type: P ï¿½â‚¬ï¿½ Range: T ï¿½â‚¬ï¿½ Duration: S ï¿½â‚¬ï¿½ DV: (F Ã· 2) ï¿½â‚¬â€œ 2
This spell increases an attribute (natural or augmented) on a voluntary subject. A version of this spell exists for each Physical and Mental attribute, but not for Special attributes (Initiative, Edge, Essence, Magic, or Resonance). The Force of the spell must equal or exceed the (augmented) value of the attribute being affected.
The attribute is increased by an amount equal to the hits scored. Each attribute can only be affected by a single Increase Attribute spell at a time. Note that increasing an attribute may affect other derived
statistics (Increase Reaction also affects Initiative, for example, while Increase Body will add extra boxes to the characterï¿½â‚¬â„¢s Physical Condition Monitor for as long as the spell lasts).

Lets say i have 5 Body and i cast this spell on Body. It i want go get 10 body, i need to use force 10 or force 5 qhen casting the spell?

thanks

Nightwalker450

May 1 2008, 06:33 PM

QUOTE (PalaNolho @ May 1 2008, 01:28 PM)

Another Question:
- How many Sustaning focils can a character have active at same time?
- when using a sustaining focil to cast, the spell uses max force = focil power and the mage ad the force used from the focil to the spellcastin check or it uses his own magic atribut, but the force choosen cant be greater then the focil power?

Logic Foci's active at one time. If I understand your second question... No you don't add the force of the foci to the casting, it just holds the cast spell.

QUOTE (PalaNolho @ May 1 2008, 01:28 PM)

Lets say i have 5 Body and i cast this spell on Body. It i want go get 10 body, i need to use force 10 or force 5 qhen casting the spell?

It has to be cast at Force 5 (or higher, but our goal is 10 so 5 works). You just have to get 5 hits, and then these are added.

If you had a body of 4 and wanted to get to 10, you'd want to cast at Force 6, Force 4 would only get you to 8.

But you're still limited to Base * 1.5 for Max Attribute.

PalaNolho

May 1 2008, 10:02 PM

About Mystic Adepts:
- is there any restriction on the spellcasting skill rating? lets say, i have 4 Magic alocated for magic skills. can i have 5 ranks on Spellcastig ??

Fortune

May 2 2008, 12:20 AM

QUOTE (PalaNolho @ May 2 2008, 08:02 AM)

About Mystic Adepts:
- is there any restriction on the spellcasting skill rating? lets say, i have 4 Magic alocated for magic skills. can i have 5 ranks on Spellcastig ??

No such limitations. You could have a Magic of 1 for Sorcery/Conjuring purposes and still have a Spellcasting or Counterspelling or Summoning skill of 5 or 6.

PalaNolho

May 2 2008, 08:16 AM

Another Question

Adiction:
- i have a player with Addiction, Severe (Alcohol). this would give him -6 penalty if he dont drink regulary right?.
- the problem is that i cant find any description on the effect of alcohol on the characters. Drugs and other toxins usually give extra IP or pain tolerance or some increase on Atributs for a periud of time, what about alcohol? is there any description for it?

Mystic Adepts:
- can a mystic adept become a good char? or is just like a "jack of all trades"?

HentaiZonga

May 2 2008, 08:18 AM

QUOTE (PalaNolho @ May 2 2008, 01:16 AM)

Another Question

- i have a player with Addiction, Severe (Alcohol). this would give him -6 penalty if he dont drink regulary right?.

Yes; it's called "Delirium Tremens" in real life.

QUOTE

- the problem is that i cant find any description on the effect of alcohol on the characters. Drugs and other toxins usually give extra IP or pain tolerance or some increase on Atributs for a periud of time, what about alcohol? is there any description for it?

well, Wiki knows all

PalaNolho

May 2 2008, 08:20 AM

DANG !!! you are fast !! ive just hit the POST button and you already gave a replay lol

Fortune

May 2 2008, 08:26 AM

QUOTE (PalaNolho @ May 2 2008, 06:16 PM)

Mystic Adepts:
- can a mystic adept become a good char? or is just like a "jack of all trades"?

I think that the question is too subjective to properly answer with any degree of accuracy. It will vary widely from game to game and table to table. Mystic Adepts can be min-maxed to great effect, but only in a few limited areas. Don't discount the versatility and usefulness of those Jacks-of-All-Trades though, especially in games of more moderate power levels.

PalaNolho

May 2 2008, 07:19 PM

Another Question

Spirit Powers

QUOTE

Movement
Type: P â€¢ Action: Complex â€¢ Range: LOS â€¢ Duration: Sustained
The critter may increase or decrease the subjectâ€™s movement
rate within the terrain it controls. Multiply or divide the
targetâ€™s movement rate by the critterâ€™s Magic.

- this affects only 1 target or "all" the enemy targets on LOS at same time ?
- a spirit in the astral plane can aply any power on a creature on the phisical plane?
- if a Materialized spirit i casts a continuous power on the caster then retours to the astral plane, does the effect of the power end on the caster?

Foci
a mage can have LOGIC focis active at same time. ok
- how many focis can he use at same time on a spell. Lets say, he will cast a Sustained spell. Can he use one Foci spellcasting ( to aid on the spellcasting) + foci spellcasting ( to aid on restid drain) + power foci + sustain foci ( tu sustain the spell) ????
- a power foci can be used to resist DV from spells ?
- a foci can only add the bonus to one roll? ( like the same foci add to the spellcasting and resist DV roll for a spell)

Spirits and Edge:
- do spirits use edge? in wich situation?
- can a mage ask a spirit to cast a spell with full power and eged with only one service ?

thanks