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DWC
QUOTE (Dumori @ Aug 15 2008, 08:35 PM) *
I'd say no to the MRL yes to the GL though.


And suddenly the bad part of my brain wonders if I can put a drone pilot into an articulated arm attached to a suit of military armor. Not that I have any intention of doing that, since it'd really, really creep DC out.
Muspellsheimr
Okay, before I head out for the weekend, here is a basic rundown of my character. Changes will be made. Suggestions are welcome as to what to cut - I have over-spent by about 200 Karma, so something needs to go. Note I calculated Attribute costs after applying Infected modifiers. If it is supposed to be the other way around, let me know, as that will save a lot of points. Further, I am still unsure if Group/Ordeal discounts are available during creation - if so, that's another 40 Karma saved. I also still need to tack on Contacts & Knowledge Skills (knowledge's will be cheap, thanks to nanotech smile.gif )

Attributes 429 Karma
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Active Skills 192 Karma
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Qualities 316 Karma
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Bonded Foci 52 Karma + 8 Karma (Availability)
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Spells 40 Karma
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Nuyen (262,500) 75 Karma

Initiation, Grade 5 95 Karma
Mickle5125
is it bad that I'm 4th on the waiting list, but I've already almost completed my character? BTW: 1000 karma leads to monstrous characters. I love it!
Intro
So I've just about finished little bit of everything guy. Mundanes are just total nuyen-sinks, so I couldn't fit in everything that would be appropriate. But he's got a decent mercenary kit for the moment, and he can struggle through the rest once cash comes in. That's why he took this job, after all.

Backstory
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Stats
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crizh
QUOTE (Intro @ Aug 16 2008, 06:22 AM) *
So I've just about finished little bit of everything guy. Mundanes are just total nuyen-sinks, so I couldn't fit in everything that would be appropriate. But he's got a decent mercenary kit for the moment, and he can struggle through the rest once cash comes in. That's why he took this job, after all.

Backstory

Stats
[ Spoiler ]


Try as I might I can't work out how you costed that skill group.....

It does give me an idea however..

[ Spoiler ]


I'm considering ditching Genewipe in favour of Military Grade Armour. Do we have any sort of Hacker in this group BTW?
Intro
QUOTE (crizh @ Aug 16 2008, 03:11 AM) *
Try as I might I can't work out how you costed that skill group.....

It does give me an idea however..

[ Spoiler ]


I'm considering ditching Genewipe in favour of Military Grade Armour. Do we have any sort of Hacker in this group BTW?

Firearms Group at 5 for 80
Upped Sniper Rifles to 6 for 12
Specializations for all 3 skills for 6
Ended up as 98 total, which isn't shown.

EDIT: It's all copied from an XL spreadsheet where the column on the right is what I paid for that line item.

I was going to try and make him a hacker, too, but in loading up on 'ware and combat skills so he doesn't get left behind in the field, I ran out of room for programs. I could squeeze in the karma for Cracking group 4, or maybe just bump hacking up a lot, and computer a bit (he'd rely on stealth in VR too, and run from cybercombat), then he'd just need to scrounge up a good set of software and he'd be decent.
crizh
Ahh, I was assuming that groups couldn't be bought above 4....
DWC
The Articulated weapon arm was too rediculous to pass up, so I did some tweaking, bought the world's largest suit of power armor, and can now wander around beating people to death with a light machinegun to conserve ammo. smile.gif

Background
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Appearance:
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Stats
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Qualities
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Skills
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Resources:
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Contacts:
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Intro
QUOTE (crizh @ Aug 16 2008, 11:55 AM) *
Ahh, I was assuming that groups couldn't be bought above 4....

Well, Dumori said we could have more than one skill at 6. I assumed that also meant skill groups above 4. If that's not the case, easy enough to change.
crizh
QUOTE (Intro @ Aug 16 2008, 09:44 PM) *
Well, Dumori said we could have more than one skill at 6. I assumed that also meant skill groups above 4. If that's not the case, easy enough to change.



Did he?

Crap...
Dumori
QUOTE (Intro @ Aug 16 2008, 04:05 PM) *
Firearms Group at 5 for 80
Upped Sniper Rifles to 6 for 12
Specializations for all 3 skills for 6
Ended up as 98 total, which isn't shown.

EDIT: It's all copied from an XL spreadsheet where the column on the right is what I paid for that line item.

I was going to try and make him a hacker, too, but in loading up on 'ware and combat skills so he doesn't get left behind in the field, I ran out of room for programs. I could squeeze in the karma for Cracking group 4, or maybe just bump hacking up a lot, and computer a bit (he'd rely on stealth in VR too, and run from cybercombat), then he'd just need to scrounge up a good set of software and he'd be decent.


We got a hack with our cyborg friend. as for skill groups nope there stuck at 4 but skills are not limited but only one above 6.
Dumori
Re-scanning what I said one group at 5 is ok but no more I should keep all this in one place not all over.
Scope_47
Arlighty, here is the latest - and hopefully final - version of Kiara complete with backstory. Somehow, Sarge doesn't seem as appropriate anymore - but I can't really settle on a good nick-name, so I hope someone will give her one that sticks in-play.

Description/personality
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Background
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Basics:
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attributes
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Skills
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Knowledge Skills and Languages
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Racial/SURGE Qualities
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Positive and Negative Qualities
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Ordeal Qualities
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Metamagic Abilities
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Adept Powers
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Resources
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Contacts
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Tarantula
Quick change, I had forgotten to throw extreme environment mod on his gun, so I had to free up 25 nuyen so I had the 100 nuyen to spend on it smile.gif

[ Spoiler ]
BlackHat
(Hopefully) Final version of Overkill. Had to switch out "records on file" for two levels of debt to pay for everything I wanted him to have (after realizing my mistake).

[ Spoiler ]
Dumori
Heres the teams sniper

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well theres my member of the party I have a backstory but it can wait
DWC
Wait? We can buy starting skills at 7? Neat. Probably not worth the karma investment, but still...
Scope_47
Note that he had the aptitude quality, which in standard BBB chargen also allows you to have a skill at 7 instead of 6.

- Scope
DWC
QUOTE (Scope_47 @ Aug 17 2008, 07:57 PM) *
Note that he had the aptitude quality, which in standard BBB chargen also allows you to have a skill at 7 instead of 6.

- Scope


Missed that. That'll teach me to think after spending an afternoon on the couch watching Sonny Chiba movies and drinking red wine.
Cthulhudreams
More questions, I've got two characters in the 'final phases' of creation and these answers will result in the 'big call'

Can I have multiple low force (3-4) ally spirits?

Can low force ally spirits possess/inhabit military combat armour, and if so, what happens? (I suggest that it works exactly like said spirits possessing the 'average' ork who just happens to be wearing combat armour)

For the warhammer 40k players, yes I am thinking about a arahman and th e1000 sons. Shush you.

What is the maximum acceptable force for an ally spirit assuming that I only have the one spirit?

Dumori
QUOTE
Can I have multiple low force (3-4) ally spirits?

Yes dont see why not.
QUOTE
Can low force ally spirits possess/inhabit military combat armour, and if so, what happens?

This is slighty harder than the other but as the OR of military combat armour is high about 6+ its unlikly they'll inhabit it a a truefrom but I'm temped to treat it as pesstion for increasing the armor and to use the spirits attributes. (I'm still getting my head round the rules as this is the first time Ive had to deal with them)

QUOTE
What is the maximum acceptable force for an ally spirit assuming that I only have the one spirit?

Ah high as you can make it.

On a side not I'll require allies to be made "ingame" but you can save the karma and gear it would cost you.
DWC
QUOTE (Cthulhudreams @ Aug 18 2008, 02:24 AM) *
More questions, I've got two characters in the 'final phases' of creation and these answers will result in the 'big call'

Can I have multiple low force (3-4) ally spirits?

Can low force ally spirits possess/inhabit military combat armour, and if so, what happens? (I suggest that it works exactly like said spirits possessing the 'average' ork who just happens to be wearing combat armour)

For the warhammer 40k players, yes I am thinking about a arahman and th e1000 sons. Shush you.


Why do you think I wanted heavy military armor with a back mounted anti-tank missile launcher? The monofilament chainsaw would have been a bit much.
Dumori
QUOTE (DWC @ Aug 18 2008, 06:19 PM) *
Why do you think I wanted heavy military armor with a back mounted anti-tank missile launcher? The monofilament chainsaw would have been a bit much.


Bah that a terminator wink.gif. Thinking about it where almost like a space marine squad bar the mages (there a bit squishy).

back on topic:

I've pmed Gremish asking for at least an out line and hope to start the OOC soon.

Point to raise here before then are:
1 we need a name for the small group we are
2 background need to acomidate how some of us are in it. Ex-mil/old mercs could have founed it and hired the cyborge and soem mage suport for this spec ops group. (we are small small fish in the merc world bout are highly trained and equiped)
3 how to deal with the large scale combats
there are some qucik points im thinking of seting up a wiki to hold all the info plus mapps where needed and to help with planing
BlackHat
Overall, I'm hoping the combats stay relatively low-scale for a while (at least, our part in them). I'm probably packing more ammo than anyone else (haven't looked closely to see if that is true or not), but I could burn through it in about 17 combat rounds (less than a minute) - if there are enough targets around to warrant that much action. If there is, long before round 17 we would have been utterly annihilated by whatever forces we're up against - since they pretty much only have to destroy our three vehicles to murder us all.

Right now, AFAIK, we don't have a homebase to go back to, and we don't have loads of extra ammo to refuel with. So, I sort of imagined there being this big war going on around us, but we've been contracted to perform a specific mission - so we go in, get it done, and get out.
Dumori
You'll see and we'll get one home base in a nice small "city"-state (it more like a group of trading town and centers in the sharia) But really if played well we should be able to get them to surrender quickly or the stalethy types could hit the supply train so that the rest can just mop up. But one thing "Overkill" might be just that at the start of this conflict.
BlackHat
QUOTE (Dumori @ Aug 18 2008, 12:57 PM) *
"Overkill" might be just that at the start of this conflict.


That was my intention. biggrin.gif
DWC
QUOTE (BlackHat @ Aug 18 2008, 02:02 PM) *
That was my intention. biggrin.gif


To be honest, aside from having EW superiority by virtue of being part of a full blown army, anything less than a mechanized infantry company is pretty much going to get pasted by us. If a decent number of us aren't overkill at the start of things, we're going to be in serious trouble in a little while.
BlackHat
pretty much as soon as someone shows up with our level of offense - we're all dead. smile.gif I dunno about hte city master, but one shot from the autocannon will pretty much destroy the ATV or the helicopter, and anyone who happens to be in them. I'm pretty sure none of us could survive a direct shot from any of the weapons we're toting around (assault cannons and such).

We're going to trounce all over local militia and whatnot, but as soon as an actual military vehicle rolls into view... it'll be a matter of initiative. Whoever goes first, blows the shit out of hte other team.
Tarantula
Autocannon = minigun = bounces off hardened armor.

GE Vigilant Autocannon = 8P/-4ap (only fires full bursts). So, as long as you're got armor 12+ the vehicles will bounce it.


Now, assault cannons could get pretty dicey.
JoelHalpern
Okay, Tam is now stated out.

Background, and Elf who got tangled in politics
[ Spoiler ]


Basic setup is an elf who can shoot first, and sometimes avoid getting shot. Also a backup face.
[ Spoiler ]


If there are any egregious errors, please let me know.
(There is a spreadsheet tracking totals, etc. if you want that Dumori.)

thank you,
Joel M. Halpern
Tam
BlackHat
QUOTE (Tarantula @ Aug 18 2008, 03:43 PM) *
Autocannon = minigun = bounces off hardened armor.

GE Vigilant Autocannon = 8P/-4ap (only fires full bursts). So, as long as you're got armor 12+ the vehicles will bounce it.


Now, assault cannons could get pretty dicey.


Don't you compare the modified DV?

Edit: IN which case, a heavy autocannon (11P/-6ap) firing AV rounds (-6ap) on 15-round full-auto, (taking DV from 11 to 25) and gets at least +1 DV from the one net hit it takes to actually hit. Would require armor 38+ to bounce it.
Tarantula
No, base (modified by ammo only), as more bullets doesn't make them go through the armor any better.

Bursts do not make guns go through armor any better.

And no, that heavy autocannon would take 12 armor to bounce it (assuming 1 net hit).

Even with your example of factoring the burst in, it would only be 26 armor to bounce it.
BlackHat
QUOTE (Tarantula @ Aug 18 2008, 03:43 PM) *
Now, assault cannons could get pretty dicey.


Also, assault cannons are only dicey because of our weird ruling that they deal 20P damage, unless you use AV rounds, in which case they deal less damage. o.O I still disagree with that interpretation, but am still okay with it if the GM prefers it.
JoelHalpern
QUOTE (BlackHat @ Aug 18 2008, 05:03 PM) *
Don't you compare the modified DV?

Edit: IN which case, a heavy autocannon (11P/-6ap) firing AV rounds (-6ap) on 15-round full-auto, (taking DV from 11 to 25) and gets at least +1 DV from the one net hit it takes to actually hit. Would require armor 38+ to bounce it.


Burst fire damage modification does not count for penetrating armor. (Thus, for vehicle or spirit armor, it does not counting for determining whether any damage is done.)
So, for penetrating purposes, that is 11P/-12AP, with one success it penetrates Armor 23. If it penetrates, you get an extra 14 damage.

Joel / Tam
BlackHat
Alright, maybe not. biggrin.gif

In any case, armor 23 is pretty hard to come by. Not impossible - but neither the ATV or the helicopter has it.

Edit: Neither does the citymaster.
BlackHat
Unless I'm mistaken (again), my original point about weapons of the caliber we're carrying (be they autocannons, or assault cannons) can pretty much rip apart our vehicles. Were someone to show up with similar weapons, I don't think we would last very long, if we didn't destroy them in the first IP.
Tarantula
SR4, 140, "4. Compare Armor Add the net hits scored to the base Damage Value of the attack; this is the modified Damage Value. Determine the type of armor used to defend against the specific attack (see Armor,
p. 148), and apply the attack’s Armor Penetration modifier (see p. 152); this is the modified Armor Value. If the attack causes Physical damage, compare the modified Damage Value to the modified Armor Value. If the DV does not exceed the Armor, then the attack inflicts Stun rather than Physical damage."

SR4, 143, "Note that this DV modifier does not apply when comparing the DV to the armor rating."

SR4, 158, "If an attack’s modified DV does not exceed a vehicle’s modified Armor rating, then the attack automatically fails."

If modified DV (base DV + net hits) does not exceed modified armor (base armor - ap) it bounces.

This is on vehicles only. For characters, instead of bouncing, it goes to stun.
DWC
QUOTE (BlackHat @ Aug 18 2008, 04:12 PM) *
Alright, maybe not. biggrin.gif

In any case, armor 23 is pretty hard to come by. Not impossible - but neither the ATV or the helicopter has it.

Edit: Neither does the citymaster.


Amusingly, while none of the vehicles has 23 armor, more than one PC does.
Tarantula
Vehicles cap at 20 armor. Unless you start throwing in smart armor, which can get bonuses against AP.
Dumori
QUOTE (BlackHat @ Aug 18 2008, 10:11 PM) *
Also, assault cannons are only dicey because of our weird ruling that they deal 20P damage, unless you use AV rounds, in which case they deal less damage. o.O I still disagree with that interpretation, but am still okay with it if the GM prefers it.


bah with AV rounds I'd add its modified AP to the normal rounds, as it as additional -1/-3 where as all other ammo doesn't have that Astrix.

But im unsure weather to go with it but it is the RAW.
Tarantula
Assault Cannons raw use the dmg of the cannon base, modded by armor. Thats the easiest was I can think of to put it.


However you decide to call it though Dumori.
Dumori
well its a good way to stop my sniper being as good as an AC but I am then unsure why it say the damage and AP mods are as cannon thus dubbeling the damage and AP of the cannon or why AV rounds have the Astrix saying how they work (witch is in effect that you add their modifier on to the AC rounds in BBB).
BlackHat
The asterisk there is explaining that one number in the AP is used for people, and that the other is used for vehicles.
The "as cannon" part is just bad wording. I wouldn't hold your breath for an errata though. The last errata was about 4 books ago.
crizh
Panic, panic...

I think I've messed up my gear...

Panicked alterations follow. I've twiddled with trying to get some military armour but I think the effort isn't worth it...

[ Spoiler ]
BlackHat
Won't you fall right out of your military armor when you change into an eagle?
DWC
QUOTE (BlackHat @ Aug 18 2008, 05:31 PM) *
Won't you fall right out of your military armor when you change into an eagle?


Sure, he'll fall right out. But he'll survive that stray burst of autocannon fire so that he gets a change to shift out.
BlackHat
Fair enough.
Dumori
Most likely I use the acepted ruling as well that "boost" ain't needed by any one. Kiara has a DP of 20 with her AC 22 with her HMG and Danger has enough other weapons and a not shabby DP him self.
Dumori
QUOTE (DWC @ Aug 18 2008, 11:44 PM) *
Sure, he'll fall right out. But he'll survive that stray burst of autocannon fire so that he gets a change to shift out.


Well make sure you've quick release on that armor or you'll be stuck in it nyahnyah.gif And one wouldn't want that
BlackHat
Well, our opponents might.
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