QUOTE
or are they not immortal in TnO?
Alachia is, BRane Deigh most likely is, and Worlds without End suggests a number of other immortals present at the Seelie court. The Fool might be immortal too, or not (He definitly is not Harlequin).
Full Version: Current status of Tir Taingire
Alachia is, BRane Deigh most likely is, and Worlds without End suggests a number of other immortals present at the Seelie court. The Fool might be immortal too, or not (He definitly is not Harlequin).
QUOTE (fistandantilus4.0 @ Oct 9 2008, 06:06 PM) 
Quick interjection:
1) Please keep the chatter about the IEs and their interaction with the game to a minimum. We already had that arguement this month. If you want to discuss their political influences, go right ahead. Just keep it on the right topic.
2) I'm getting tired of seeing "x fanboyz" used to describe a game element that one person cares for and another does not. It's nothing more than a tongue in cheek way of deriding another person's opinion, and in my opinion, is akin to a personal attack, but on a much wider base. This isn't necessarily directed at sk8bcn , because I've seen a lot of it here lately. I'd like it to stop.
1) Please keep the chatter about the IEs and their interaction with the game to a minimum. We already had that arguement this month. If you want to discuss their political influences, go right ahead. Just keep it on the right topic.
2) I'm getting tired of seeing "x fanboyz" used to describe a game element that one person cares for and another does not. It's nothing more than a tongue in cheek way of deriding another person's opinion, and in my opinion, is akin to a personal attack, but on a much wider base. This isn't necessarily directed at sk8bcn , because I've seen a lot of it here lately. I'd like it to stop.
uh what? I must have expressed myself very badly because I was trying to make these points exactely. Part 1 and Part 2.
When I said:
"The debate (from every last threads I've seen on the subject) went to: "they are unkilable, it's unfun, they can't control every plot" ...and so on... . With the nice share of "They have nothing to do in SR" "Yes they have, they are there since SR1 blah blah". This was debated to death. If IT referes to the ability IE have to maintain the grasp over their power, if it's realistic or not, on which part of control they are forced to give up on corps, and so on, I say, yes, it adds to the debate.
But I do not need to quote most of the last "IE fanboyz" posts, or do I have to?"=> What IMO, is the kind of pointless rantings and an attack, yes.
QUOTE (Not of this World @ Oct 9 2008, 10:40 PM)
Anyways, for the challenge of how it should be developed it seems pretty clear that CGL isn't going there. They seem pretty set in their ways and not willing to change directions that upset things with SR3 fans. For those of you saying you're glad the Earthdawn connections are over, I sadly point out the last chat said that they're coming back. I do wish they'd go back to the roots of SR in SR1 which had NO Earthdawn. If you did go back 20 years in Shadowrun you'd find that nobody else was using any Earthdawn either. Making the 20 year anniversary of Shadowrun all about Earthdawn is a surefire way to make sure this SR1-3 GM and his players still don't pick up any books from SR4.
I thought SR1 had been released in 1989 and Earthdawn two or three years later? Just an idea...
4 years later actually, Earthdawn was published in 1993. Second edition was published in 1992, and the Harlequin campaign detailing the Immortal Elves Harlequin and Ehran was written in 1990. The first novel involving immortal elves was Find Your Own Truth in 1991.
But that is just timeline you might say, didn't they have the same people come up with it?
No, not at all they were entirely seperate groups at FASA. Shadowrun was the brain child of Jordan Weismann, Robert N. Charrette, Tom Dowd, David Wylie and Paul Hume. Earthdawn was a project of Greg Gorden who pitched that FASA make a fantasy setting game and later devised that they would use Shadowrun's 4th age story as a pseudo-background for it.
It is assumptions by people who came later about the foundations of what is Shadowrun that really doesn't help connect with the older Shadowrun players. SR4 made radical and deliberate efforts to reboot the entire setting that you get a lot of confusion about what an Elven land even is like in this thread. Hint, it was never about PR corps and Great Dragons (other than the token to pacify them and give them a nod) till now. For this reason I'm really depressed about the Tir topic because like the rest of the setting they're rewriting it completely and will probably throw in the odd reference to Earthdawn and think that appeases any of us holding out from the older editions.
Someone at CGL got this idea somewhere that the origin of us SR1 folks is all Earthdawn and for some reason we want more tie-ins to it for the 20th anniversary, but it could hardly be further from the truth. Earthdawn is strictly a SR2 thing and a lot of people like myself blame the heavy focus on cross-over ties as part of the reason that late 2nd edition SR sales weren't so great. I've talked with CGL people a few times and every time I hear more details about the "20th anniversary" and what they plan as the "roots" of Shadowrun I just sigh and realize how far this game has drifted. At this point I just have a lot of hope that the other company developing a Shadowrun game sticks better to the SR1 and SR3 line... which I have good reason to expect that they will.
But that is just timeline you might say, didn't they have the same people come up with it?
No, not at all they were entirely seperate groups at FASA. Shadowrun was the brain child of Jordan Weismann, Robert N. Charrette, Tom Dowd, David Wylie and Paul Hume. Earthdawn was a project of Greg Gorden who pitched that FASA make a fantasy setting game and later devised that they would use Shadowrun's 4th age story as a pseudo-background for it.
It is assumptions by people who came later about the foundations of what is Shadowrun that really doesn't help connect with the older Shadowrun players. SR4 made radical and deliberate efforts to reboot the entire setting that you get a lot of confusion about what an Elven land even is like in this thread. Hint, it was never about PR corps and Great Dragons (other than the token to pacify them and give them a nod) till now. For this reason I'm really depressed about the Tir topic because like the rest of the setting they're rewriting it completely and will probably throw in the odd reference to Earthdawn and think that appeases any of us holding out from the older editions.
Someone at CGL got this idea somewhere that the origin of us SR1 folks is all Earthdawn and for some reason we want more tie-ins to it for the 20th anniversary, but it could hardly be further from the truth. Earthdawn is strictly a SR2 thing and a lot of people like myself blame the heavy focus on cross-over ties as part of the reason that late 2nd edition SR sales weren't so great. I've talked with CGL people a few times and every time I hear more details about the "20th anniversary" and what they plan as the "roots" of Shadowrun I just sigh and realize how far this game has drifted. At this point I just have a lot of hope that the other company developing a Shadowrun game sticks better to the SR1 and SR3 line... which I have good reason to expect that they will.
QUOTE (Not of this World @ Aug 17 2008, 06:52 PM)
oWoD was the top selling RPG here in the U.S., nWoD isn't faring so well though they're still in business. Of course now White Wolf has been bought out by CCP of Iceland so the future will probably trend away from Pen and Paper. I do fear SR is on the same course but Wizkids/CGL can't fall back on computer game rights as Microsoft has those from FASA's demise.
I know this post is old, but as I live up-close-and-personal in the city of White Wolf, I must disagree.
OWOD was the best-seller during the 90s, but it began to crap out in the 2000s when it began collapsing under the weight of its own metaplot. I should know; I have the entire damn run of that metaplot. It's exhausting to read in its entirety.
NWOD is actually faring better for WW; they are making a steadier profit per quarter.
CCP of Iceland has moved their main offices into the expanded Atlanta offices of WW as they find it more economical. It wasn't a buy-out; it was an actual honest-to-God merger. CCP needed the properties of White Wolf for new gaming ideas and White Wolf wanted the free-flowing cash that Eve Online produces. The execs of BOTH companies remain in control of the new entity. P&P is going to remain HIGHLY touted as a mainstay while CCP gets settled. Also, the P&P products will be the support of the NWOD MMO that is being developed to be available in 4-5 years.
I should also note that the CCP/White Wolf merger reasons are the same ones behind the Cryptic Studios/HERO Games merger - lots of cash + properties to develop. I think this will become the trend for P&P in the forseeable future.
QUOTE (Not of this World @ Oct 18 2008, 09:07 AM)
Someone at CGL got this idea somewhere that the origin of us SR1 folks is all Earthdawn and for some reason we want more tie-ins to it for the 20th anniversary, but it could hardly be further from the truth. Earthdawn is strictly a SR2 thing and a lot of people like myself blame the heavy focus on cross-over ties as part of the reason that late 2nd edition SR sales weren't so great. I've talked with CGL people a few times and every time I hear more details about the "20th anniversary" and what they plan as the "roots" of Shadowrun I just sigh and realize how far this game has drifted. At this point I just have a lot of hope that the other company developing a Shadowrun game sticks better to the SR1 and SR3 line... which I have good reason to expect that they will.
Somehow you got the weird idea that the 20th anniversary is made for the huge amount of SR4 players coming from SR1.
Are we supposed to cheer YOU for YOUR anniversary.
Just a question?
I in no way want to get involved in the flames burning over several topics in this post. But I feel the need to comment on a topic it has born out. ED connections with SR. No there was no ED with 1st edition but when they connected the two it really did fill in some blanks, first edition had planted seeds that ED tie ins answered. I got my first edition book shortly after release and played the plot from beginning till end/current. I for one am looking forward to going back our roots some. Recently gone back and looked over some 1st edition books and early 2nd edition books, strange how the flavor has changed but the guts have smoothed out. Of course theres nothing that keeps you from bringing back some of that flare.
QUOTE (sk8bcn @ Oct 18 2008, 05:48 AM)
Somehow you got the weird idea that the 20th anniversary is made for the huge amount of SR4 players coming from SR1.
Are we supposed to cheer YOU for YOUR anniversary.
Just a question?
Are we supposed to cheer YOU for YOUR anniversary.
Just a question?
Yeah, I've gotten the idea from what has been said about the 20th anniversary that they think it is about going back to the roots of SR. But I think those roots have long since been hacked and cut off from SR4 and it will take a lot more than smearing earthdawn over the setting again to get it back.
P.S. it isn't my anniversary, or CGL's or anyone else's. It is the 20th anniversary for the setting of Shadowrun.
But since you posed "just a question", what is a 20th anniversary supposed to be about and celebrating?
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Peter_Taylor> First off: Shadowrun novels
Peter_Taylor> They're making a comeback.
Ryu: I am hoping for some ED connections?
Peter_Taylor> Now that would be telling... Seriously though, ED connections will continue to be part of the metaplot and appear in upcoming books - whether they will take the spotlight again is something else entirely
Peter_Taylor> Catalyst's 2008 Shadowrun schedule will be rounded out with the release of Ghost Cartels and Feral Cities.
Peter_Taylor> Ghost Cartels is a campaign featuring a new format combines what I feel are the best elements of the canned adventures (like On the Run), episodic campaigns (like Brainscan), and the event/track campaigns (like Blood in the Boardroom and System Failure).
Peter_Taylor> It features an street-level underworld/criminal oriented campaign with its own hidden surprises
Peter_Taylor> Feral Cities will be the third in our core location books and this time round we spotlight Chicago and the African sprawl of Lagos.
Peter_Taylor> Backup sprawls include Bogotá (look for fallout of Ghost Cartels), GeMiTo, Karavan (surprise), Geneva (what?) and Sarajevo.
Peter_Taylor> Our first product for 2009 is being developed under the working title Gamemasters Toolkit
Peter_Taylor> but in fact it’s more general and will appeal to a lot of groups. This product will be a small boxed set that includes a new screen, On The Run, and a bunch of extras including cheat sheets and other goodies.
Peter_Taylor> At around the same time we'll also be releasing the first adventure in the Dawn of the Artifacts series which will play into the whole 20th Anniversary theme we have going next year.
Peter_Taylor> Dawn of the Artifacts will unfold over 4 stand-alone but interlinked adventures
Peter_Taylor> the Artifacts series will definitely tie into Shadowrun's secret history (as I told a friend recently if the name isn't a dead giveaway you shouldn't be running the shadows for long enough)
Peter_Taylor> Okay moving on. The two other products that we've already announced and which will be appearing next year are the underworld sourcebook Vice and the critters book Running Wild.
Peter_Taylor> Vice will dive into what the Sixth World underworld looks like in the aftermath of Ghost Cartels and have a wider, more international focus than say the Underworld sb. That said all your old favorites will still be there (i.e. the Mob, the Yaks, the Triads, etc) as well as the not-so-small old time favorites (i.e. the Ancients, the Cutters, etc)...
Peter_Taylor> Running Wild will be much more than a critter compendium, though it will cover that too.
Casper: Is the Corporate Guide slated for 09?
Peter_Taylor> If we do manage to squeeze Corporate Guide into 2009 it will be towards the end of the year.
Blueeyes: I seem to remember you mentioning a Corporate Guide book 1 or 2 chats ago, has this one been put on the back burner or?
Peter_Taylor> We've got a bunch of really cool Anniversary products that will take precedence because of timing. That said Corporate Guide is very much a priority.
Peter_Taylor> First off, we'll be releasing a "Seattle 2072" sourcebook, an Anniversary tribute to the original Seattle sb, full color and with all the local color you might want to wiggle your finger at.
Peter_Taylor> The second Anniversary product is the Sixth World Almanac.
Peter_Taylor> This will be a full color and entirely in character. It will include a detailed timeline of the Sixth World and a Sixth World fact book - a brief overview of what the world looks like in 2072.
Zed: Shouldn't the 20th Anniversary Products include "swag" from NERPS?
Peter_Taylor> Funny you should mention that. There's actually a third product I can talk about. We're planning on releasing an Introductory Boxed Set that's intended to get new players to sit down and play Shadowrun in 20 minutes. The Introductory Set will be an Anniversary product and I have it on good authority that it will be full of little extras and "swag."
Peter_Taylor> Our first e-book release will be Digital Grimoire. This is a plug in for Street Magic and adds a lot of bonus material and some examples that we couldn't fit in the actual book.
Peter_Taylor> Digital Grimoire will be followed by the first three adventures in the NYC arc of SRM.
Peter_Taylor> They're making a comeback.
Ryu: I am hoping for some ED connections?
Peter_Taylor> Now that would be telling... Seriously though, ED connections will continue to be part of the metaplot and appear in upcoming books - whether they will take the spotlight again is something else entirely
Peter_Taylor> Catalyst's 2008 Shadowrun schedule will be rounded out with the release of Ghost Cartels and Feral Cities.
Peter_Taylor> Ghost Cartels is a campaign featuring a new format combines what I feel are the best elements of the canned adventures (like On the Run), episodic campaigns (like Brainscan), and the event/track campaigns (like Blood in the Boardroom and System Failure).
Peter_Taylor> It features an street-level underworld/criminal oriented campaign with its own hidden surprises
Peter_Taylor> Feral Cities will be the third in our core location books and this time round we spotlight Chicago and the African sprawl of Lagos.
Peter_Taylor> Backup sprawls include Bogotá (look for fallout of Ghost Cartels), GeMiTo, Karavan (surprise), Geneva (what?) and Sarajevo.
Peter_Taylor> Our first product for 2009 is being developed under the working title Gamemasters Toolkit
Peter_Taylor> but in fact it’s more general and will appeal to a lot of groups. This product will be a small boxed set that includes a new screen, On The Run, and a bunch of extras including cheat sheets and other goodies.
Peter_Taylor> At around the same time we'll also be releasing the first adventure in the Dawn of the Artifacts series which will play into the whole 20th Anniversary theme we have going next year.
Peter_Taylor> Dawn of the Artifacts will unfold over 4 stand-alone but interlinked adventures
Peter_Taylor> the Artifacts series will definitely tie into Shadowrun's secret history (as I told a friend recently if the name isn't a dead giveaway you shouldn't be running the shadows for long enough)
Peter_Taylor> Okay moving on. The two other products that we've already announced and which will be appearing next year are the underworld sourcebook Vice and the critters book Running Wild.
Peter_Taylor> Vice will dive into what the Sixth World underworld looks like in the aftermath of Ghost Cartels and have a wider, more international focus than say the Underworld sb. That said all your old favorites will still be there (i.e. the Mob, the Yaks, the Triads, etc) as well as the not-so-small old time favorites (i.e. the Ancients, the Cutters, etc)...
Peter_Taylor> Running Wild will be much more than a critter compendium, though it will cover that too.
Casper: Is the Corporate Guide slated for 09?
Peter_Taylor> If we do manage to squeeze Corporate Guide into 2009 it will be towards the end of the year.
Blueeyes: I seem to remember you mentioning a Corporate Guide book 1 or 2 chats ago, has this one been put on the back burner or?
Peter_Taylor> We've got a bunch of really cool Anniversary products that will take precedence because of timing. That said Corporate Guide is very much a priority.
Peter_Taylor> First off, we'll be releasing a "Seattle 2072" sourcebook, an Anniversary tribute to the original Seattle sb, full color and with all the local color you might want to wiggle your finger at.
Peter_Taylor> The second Anniversary product is the Sixth World Almanac.
Peter_Taylor> This will be a full color and entirely in character. It will include a detailed timeline of the Sixth World and a Sixth World fact book - a brief overview of what the world looks like in 2072.
Zed: Shouldn't the 20th Anniversary Products include "swag" from NERPS?
Peter_Taylor> Funny you should mention that. There's actually a third product I can talk about. We're planning on releasing an Introductory Boxed Set that's intended to get new players to sit down and play Shadowrun in 20 minutes. The Introductory Set will be an Anniversary product and I have it on good authority that it will be full of little extras and "swag."
Peter_Taylor> Our first e-book release will be Digital Grimoire. This is a plug in for Street Magic and adds a lot of bonus material and some examples that we couldn't fit in the actual book.
Peter_Taylor> Digital Grimoire will be followed by the first three adventures in the NYC arc of SRM.
Look!
Novels comes back,
there's still ED connection but not main focus anymore,
Ghost cartels for scenarios
Feral Cities (as new locations to play)
A gamemaster toolkit
Dawn of the artifact (as a campaign)
Underworld sourcebook Vice
Running wild (critters)
A corporate guide
Seattle 2072
A sixth World Almanac
An Introductory boxed set
+
Digital grimoire and NY scenarios.
It covers criminality, Seattle, new locations, magic, corporations,...
Damnit, I don't see a reason here to complain for anyone. Whatever the aspect of the game you like, you get something to read.
So what's the point?
The list of projects just sound awesome, no?
QUOTE (Not of this World @ Oct 20 2008, 06:07 AM)
But since you posed "just a question", what is a 20th anniversary supposed to be about and celebrating?
A 20th anniversary is IMO supposed to please a little bit of everyone, either those who started with the 4th than those there from the beginning.
If you check the product list, everyone has something to be happy with.
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